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Caufman
May 7, 2007
I am listening to The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings on audiobook now, and I'm also going to try to use March as a month to restart practicing mindful eating. I've been eating way too many of my meals at my desk, and that just leads to eating too much and not eating well, as my non-stretchy pants can verify.

prom candy posted:

I am finding the book club book a bit difficult to get through. Does anyone have any recommendations for something that's a bit deeper than the secular buddhism for Westerners genre but still written to be approachable? I just read 10% Happier and I enjoyed it but it definitely handwaved a lot of the metaphysical aspects of Buddhism. The metaphysical aspects are part of what I'm hoping can help me reduce my attachment to my current conception of self (and hopefully therefore stop having my day completely railroaded by health anxiety every time I feel a little unexpected sensation or whatever.)

I'm interested to know what you mean by the metaphysical aspects of Buddhism that you'd like to learn more about, can you describe that? Is that like the Buddhist views on impermanence and non-dualism that you'd like to learn more deeply?

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corn haver
Mar 28, 2020
Hi thread, this is somewhat inappropriate but it's the Something Awful forums and someone might find it useful. If you have major health anxiety, there's mindfulness of body stuff below.

A few weeks ago, I was just kind of chilling in the evening. I had a pretty peaceful day at work, and the craving/aversion/intentionally ignoring stuff impulse was noticeably weaker than normal, like how a baby takes a second to realize someone stole their toy. It struck me as an opportune moment to practice insight meditation, so I spend some time deliberately cultivating a deeper sense of mindful relaxation by stretching and shaking out tension and then meditating on the breath a while.

After that, I could tell that I was ready for some unpleasant stuff, and knew it would just unfold by itself by paying attention to my experience without really trying to focus on anything. I figured I should just be totally committed in the next couple hours regardless of what happened, because it would just mean postponing the work. I imagined myself getting ready to dive off a cliff, and knew that it would be as intense as dying so I had to come to terms with that and sort of said goodbye to loved ones mentally. I then realized that if I wanted to do it, I had to tell myself that I could help others by doing it. All of the above I did as gently as possible.

I then felt awareness getting more sensitive and I started feeling my circulatory system working. I normally backed away from this immediately from anxiety, but I just let it unfold. It became more intense to the point where my ears were pounding, I began feeling the well of pressure in the arteries, especially to the head. It was like a feedback loop, the less I did, the more the sensation increased. Eventually I could tell that my blood would spray everywhere if someone were to cut open a major artery, my heart's activity was like a machine vibrating, and that everything was teetering on absolute catastrophe and could fail in the exact next moment.

Suddenly, all of this activity didn't hold any appeal or terror anymore. It felt like a hot stream of dirty water suddenly going pure and cold, like a building had collapsed on me and I was standing unharmed in the rubble. Nothing was touching awareness. Things just appeared in awareness, while awareness was just doing its thing of being aware, and I knew it was permanent.

I guess I'm posting this because it's possible to do even without being an experienced meditator, very close (it's just awareness relaxing to the max and taking it all in), and it's not an end point. It's really just the first point where you can't deeply harm yourself through cultivation by fostering the three poisons without realizing it. I am still a huge piece of crap and have a ton of work to do, but I can at least look without flinching now.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



That does sound a little fearsome but I am glad you were able to make such a breakthrough. Do you know if you were objectively somehow affected by it?

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Caufman posted:


I'm interested to know what you mean by the metaphysical aspects of Buddhism that you'd like to learn more about, can you describe that? Is that like the Buddhist views on impermanence and non-dualism that you'd like to learn more deeply?

Yeah a lot of the Buddhism for Westerners genre deliberately ignores things like karma or rebirth. The books are very accessible, but they're often pretty secular. So yeah the stuff about samsara, non-dualism, etc. But written for dumb guys like me.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



prom candy posted:

Yeah a lot of the Buddhism for Westerners genre deliberately ignores things like karma or rebirth. The books are very accessible, but they're often pretty secular. So yeah the stuff about samsara, non-dualism, etc. But written for dumb guys like me.
I'd be interested too and I am hunting around for the text. I have certainly shared your annoyance with the Buddhism for White Readers. Good lord save me from another drat book on neurology, I want more on different gradiations of devas.

To be clear it sounds like you're looking for something nearer to an explanatory textbook or catechism? Henry Steel Olcott wrote one and it is beloved in Sri Lanka, or so I understand, but it is rather outdated and does not focus a lot on things like non-dualism I think.

Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009

prom candy posted:

Yeah a lot of the Buddhism for Westerners genre deliberately ignores things like karma or rebirth. The books are very accessible, but they're often pretty secular. So yeah the stuff about samsara, non-dualism, etc. But written for dumb guys like me.

If you want the nuts and bolts of karma and rebirth specifically, try looking for stuff on the 12 links of dependant origination.

Some western writers don't go into detail on these subjects because, depending on the school they were trained in, some of these topics are more allegorical than real. This is especially true of those who came into it through vipassana practice. So from their point of view, they may be covering it, but translated into modern English.

Is rebirth just like the Hindu concept, minus "the self"? Or is it an allegory for a process that happens moment by moment? Or both? Or neither?

Is karma a cosmic ledger that exists independent of you? Is it a way of seeing how you reinforce habital patterns in a psychological sense. Something in between?

There are debates about this in Buddhism, and unfortunately they get very deep very quickly.

corn haver
Mar 28, 2020

Nessus posted:

That does sound a little fearsome but I am glad you were able to make such a breakthrough. Do you know if you were objectively somehow affected by it?
I don't know about objectively, but there's a noticeable lack of activity in some situations that people have commented on. Like at work we had a week of training that had about 1.5 days of useful information in it and the rest was powerpoint hell. People were dying of boredom, and I would be too normally, but I found that I enjoyed the break a lot because I could sort of gaze out into the middle distance all day and felt refreshed at the end of it.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


Listened to the Short Teaching Freedom to Choose (Mindfulness and Science) on the Plum Village app last night. It gets into how the frontal cortex isn't so much a decision making center to enable action but a decision making center to suppress the full range of potential actions, and that mindfulness provides you will an early warning system for coming urges to action, enabling you to stop it.

I'm not certain of the neurobiology of this but it seems reasonable if so (the speaker was reading from studies(. Definitely was a very interesting talk.

e. did my first sitting meditation today in half lotus. I've mostly been lying flat over the past month. Sitting is a lot more balanced and intense for me. I was shocked at the difference to be honest.

Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Mar 4, 2022

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


I am through chapter 5 of the Heart now, the introduction to the most basics (4 Noble Truths) at this point. I really liked TNH's exhortation to not critically evaluate the words being read but allow them to penetrate you like water on soil, to nourish the seeds of understanding that are already there. Also the argument against all things being suffering. But also then follows a discussion on Buddhist scholarship on the sutras/suttas to pull true teachings from later additions.

Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 5, 2022

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
Re sitting and cushions: seconding what paramemetic said about trying two cushions (or all manner of height variations, I'm not especially tall and I need at least 5-6" of butt-elevation to get full lotus to really lock into place. On a related note, long-term it's worth working towards full lotus as it is, ime, by far the most stable and easiest and least uncomfortable way to sit for prolonged periods of time. It's stable because it interlocks your lower body together so you're basically just at rest compared to other ways of sitting that require using more muscle or balance to hold the posture.

prom candy posted:

I am finding the book club book a bit difficult to get through. Does anyone have any recommendations for something that's a bit deeper than the secular buddhism for Westerners genre but still written to be approachable? I just read 10% Happier and I enjoyed it but it definitely handwaved a lot of the metaphysical aspects of Buddhism. The metaphysical aspects are part of what I'm hoping can help me reduce my attachment to my current conception of self (and hopefully therefore stop having my day completely railroaded by health anxiety every time I feel a little unexpected sensation or whatever.)

Also I remember when I first asked my parents what happened when you die when I was a little kid and they talked to me about different religious beliefs, when they got to reincarnation I was like "oh yeah that one sounds right" and sometimes you have to go with your gut.

Nagarjuna's Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way idk if it is approachable exactly (it's certainly not impenetrable, at least) but it really, really gets into buddhist metaphysics. Probably find a translation with some commentary or at least really good footnotes

Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Nagarjuna's Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way idk if it is approachable exactly (it's certainly not impenetrable, at least) but it really, really gets into buddhist metaphysics. Probably find a translation with some commentary or at least really good footnotes

I thought about suggesting that one, but I'm also a philosophy nerd, and enjoy reading things like Wittgenstein's Tractatus.

The Mulamadhyamakakarika is probably one that would be a good Book Club read. Jay Garfield's translation and commentary is an easy version to find if some one was interested.

I also enjoyed Garfield's lecture series on Yogacara for Sravasti Abbey. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8DRNsjySiiYe3Ttgf5tpqDtp3NPNHkYq

Hiro Protagonist
Oct 25, 2010

Last of the freelance hackers and
Greatest swordfighter in the world
Does anyone have any recommendations for YouTube channels, documentaries, or podcasts to listen to regarding Buddhist practice? My girlfriend has been interested in Buddhism, and I wanted to find something easy to digest when it comes to initial principles. She works in academia, so books generally aren't the best, because she just wants time away from reading after work usually.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Beowulfs_Ghost posted:

I thought about suggesting that one, but I'm also a philosophy nerd, and enjoy reading things like Wittgenstein's Tractatus.

The Mulamadhyamakakarika is probably one that would be a good Book Club read. Jay Garfield's translation and commentary is an easy version to find if some one was interested.

I also enjoyed Garfield's lecture series on Yogacara for Sravasti Abbey. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8DRNsjySiiYe3Ttgf5tpqDtp3NPNHkYq

Yeah I liked that translation. The commentary was quite helpful, too.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Hiro Protagonist posted:

Does anyone have any recommendations for YouTube channels, documentaries, or podcasts to listen to regarding Buddhist practice? My girlfriend has been interested in Buddhism, and I wanted to find something easy to digest when it comes to initial principles. She works in academia, so books generally aren't the best, because she just wants time away from reading after work usually.
I have only dipped my toe into the Plum Village app but it has a lot of talks on it. They are as far as I can tell mostly recordings of live talks so there might be a need to figure something else out.

Also my copy of the Heart of Buddha's Teachings got here :3: I'm going to get started on it later today. Trip report as I go.

for fucks sake
Jan 23, 2016

Hiro Protagonist posted:

Does anyone have any recommendations for YouTube channels, documentaries, or podcasts to listen to regarding Buddhist practice? My girlfriend has been interested in Buddhism, and I wanted to find something easy to digest when it comes to initial principles. She works in academia, so books generally aren't the best, because she just wants time away from reading after work usually.

I like Doug Smith. He has a YouTube channel called Doug's Dharma, and has just started a podcast with a meditation teacher called Diggin' The Dharma.

He focuses on early buddhism using the Pali Canon as his main source, on philosophy and practice applicable in the here-and-now in this life.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



yall know that practice where a novice goes to the graveyard and stays overnight with all the corpses that are just hanging out there (because this is a not a modern western cemetery you see) and meditates on the impermanence of the body and breaks their attachment to it and also learns not to have aversion to icky dead stuff?

if youre a computer toucher in 2022 you can get basically the same experience by popping the keycaps off your keyboard and cleanin it out after two full years of working from home #enlightenmenthack #whoa #gross #somuchhair

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


:stare:

I'm going to replace my keyboard tomorrow I think. I can only imagine what has built up in this thing over the past ten years.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I'm not sure how finding a bunch of old Dorito dust is supposed to enlighten me

Caufman
May 7, 2007
It's like going to wash your bowl, if your bowl was cotinuously collecting your detritus in hard-to-reach nooks and crannies, possibly for years.

Pondex
Jul 8, 2014

Huh, does that mean Keyboard-goop guy was actually some kind of Bodishattva?

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
some kind of grodysattva

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

some kind of grodysattva

:perfect:

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Herstory Begins Now posted:

some kind of grodysattva

ram dass in hell
Dec 29, 2019



:420::toot::420:
This is just another form of attachment to the belief in practice-enlightenment. The true fruit of Buddha's teaching is inclusive of nonattachment to the practice, which is why I am throwing my keyboard away and buying a new one instead of cleaning it. call it endless death and rebirth as I unbox a pristine new keyboard from amazon prime. the end result is the same, we both have clean keyboards, you've just bought and sold a story called "samsara, nirvana, and keyboard goop" as part of your process of instantiation.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



After much disturbance and mischegoss I sat down and started reading the Heart of the Buddha's Teachings - only up to chapter 3! Though these are not long chapters, are they. I wonder if he was writing for the toilet audience. I was left, so far, with two novel thoughts.

First, is that I appreciate Hanh's focus on the fact and truth that the elimination of suffering is not meant to put you into some kind of Vulcanoid austere super-detachment. That the Buddha taught against advanced austerities, and that the elimination of suffering is not the elimination of finding joy in things. These are important points to remember, I think, especially as there is a certain celebration and valorization of suffering that pervades our culture.

The other was a footnote in the end of chapter 3. It described how there is the specific step in the eightfold path of 'right mindfulness,' which is fairly easy, I suppose, to interpret as 'go meditate, and perhaps, do not let meditation overcome the necessary duties of life.'

BUT, the footnote mentions the prospect of wrong mindfulness in the sense of mindfulness practices that do not bear good fruit, although this is of course immediately said to be something you come to discern for yourself. But it seems like a rather thorny thing to thread through; you could have a practice which is enlightening or relieves your attachments but has negative side effects.

It was a sobering topic to consider, especially if you also look at the concept of expedient means next to it. How could you tell which is which?

for fucks sake
Jan 23, 2016

Nessus posted:

First, is that I appreciate Hanh's focus on the fact and truth that the elimination of suffering is not meant to put you into some kind of Vulcanoid austere super-detachment. That the Buddha taught against advanced austerities, and that the elimination of suffering is not the elimination of finding joy in things. These are important points to remember, I think, especially as there is a certain celebration and valorization of suffering that pervades our culture.

This fits well with some of the guided meditations from the plum village app, which I guess is appropriate considering who the author is. Specifically the one where you're supposed to embrace painful feelings as they come up. When I did this one I felt the same compassion towards myself as I'd feel towards a friend who was having a hard time, and the suggestion to smile as you do it actually left me feeling a little joyful.

And this is all self-reinforcing - if I enjoy my practice I'm more likely to keep doing it, and the more I do it with a joyful frame of mind the more likely it is to be enjoyable.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



for fucks sake posted:

This fits well with some of the guided meditations from the plum village app, which I guess is appropriate considering who the author is. Specifically the one where you're supposed to embrace painful feelings as they come up. When I did this one I felt the same compassion towards myself as I'd feel towards a friend who was having a hard time, and the suggestion to smile as you do it actually left me feeling a little joyful.

And this is all self-reinforcing - if I enjoy my practice I'm more likely to keep doing it, and the more I do it with a joyful frame of mind the more likely it is to be enjoyable.
Yeah exactly, you want to make it a habit. Of course sometimes it will be unpleasant, or unfruitful, but if you make it a habit such that you do it every day, you will... do it every day, barring other reasons why that disrupt your moments of doing so. To quote the OP,

Paramemetic posted:

What we habituate is what we will do.

The valorization of suffering has always been strange to me but it is very deep rooted indeed. It goes well beyond 'into every life some rain must fall, no matter what, so you should build skills to deal with it.'

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


I really respond to how he teaches, and the practice exercises on the app have been really helpful to me. Its straight forward, practical, and comprehendible in a meaningful way.

Just starting chapter 7 on the turning of the wheel of dharma and I suspect this will be rich for discussion. Seems really deep two pages in.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


had a real good sitting meditation using the silent counter on the plum village app. I feel bringing my experience in to this to work through poo poo is the obvious next step (and is a next step that appears to be a point of chapter 7)

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


just as an aside: I'm finding that I'm getting more inpatient for not handling poo poo correctly. Its good I'm recognizing that I can do better but its not so good to be clinging to the idea of doing better, because its not right thinking.

So much to learn...

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Bilirubin posted:

just as an aside: I'm finding that I'm getting more inpatient for not handling poo poo correctly. Its good I'm recognizing that I can do better but its not so good to be clinging to the idea of doing better, because its not right thinking.

So much to learn...
Don't beat yourself up over such things. You can't lose at cultivating.

I mean just being aware that it's something you're holding onto is progress!

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Got through chapter 4 in Heart of Buddha's Teachings.

This was a fascinating chapter and it really does point to what seems like a much wiser way of approaching sacred texts than is commonly the case in America. There is sort of this subliminal expectation that you want the most accurate, oldest, original-ist and nearest-to-the-source version of the book that you can, and that this book will then kind of be the master copy; you will perhaps fill in details or obvious gaps but you're always returning to the Book.

And yet, that is impossible here, because of the long long period of oral tradition, as well as the various things that are lost. Indeed he gives an example of what could very easily be a similar teaching or record of the Buddha's statements that was distorted! Which of the two is right?

Except of course that it isn't the ultimate point. I enjoyed the note about the guy who was 'looking for a theory,' I suppose these sorts have always been around. Truly, Vatsigotra had Poster's Spirit.

This gave me two observations from two different directions.

The first was a reminder, from Hanh's metaphor of how to consider the teachings (as a map to Paris, rather than an intrinsic ultimate good) that the soteriology of Buddhism, so to speak, really is different from the Christianities commonly found in America. At the same time I feel that some of this being so readily accessible may be part of why in the old thread we had so many people coming in and basically saying "Is it even meaningful to 'be a Buddhist'? Just implement this esoteric statement of high-order principles which has been slightly modified by me and also possibly my co-author, marijuana."

The second was a thought on faith. This story of how the dharma did in fact have a long period of oral tradition and observable issues which are probably errors in terms of what the Buddha originally said, as well as the comment that the Buddha likely did not teach in Pali or Sanskrit but in a related language, which would has been translated along the way, removes this element that is so strongly associated with religion in my head: No, there is no "original" dharma to write down. You have to judge by its fruits and by critical and thoughtful reading, and to have that little bit of trust - the faith - that it is real and meaningful, not simply ancient and complex philosophy/meditation tips.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


That was a very thoughtful review of the chapter. I really liked it as well and I quite agree with your comment about how religious texts are handled in the west. This point was a real issue with the church I was raised in that for whatever reason they refused to see, how they could be both anti interpreting the bible as anything but the directly divinely inspired word of god (and run down catholicism for having subsidiary interpretive texts), yet in the next breath hem and haw over just what parts get emphasized or downplayed (and wait, here is the subsidiary text you need to "correctly" interpret it!). Boy, the thought that these are interpretations that *gasp* might have had errors introduced into was simply a bridge too far even though we know this to be correct from scholarship. Well, if facts get in your way they must be wrong right?

IMP TNH really gains in my esteem for authenticity and scholarly view given this discussion.

Caufman
May 7, 2007

Nessus posted:

The first was a reminder, from Hanh's metaphor of how to consider the teachings (as a map to Paris, rather than an intrinsic ultimate good) that the soteriology of Buddhism, so to speak, really is different from the Christianities commonly found in America.

For me, a lot of the Christianity I've seen in America leans heavily on devotionalism. At its worst, it can devolve into fanaticism, almost like being a big fan of Jesus the way someone might be a big fan of a sports star. They've got all the Jesus-brand merchandise and apparel, they obsess over his image and hold him to be the most superior in his league, but there's something noticably lacking in their practice, the same way I look at someone who is really obsessed with a particular athlete like Michael Jordan but doesn't live with the discipline that Jordan had. A lot of American Christianity looks like this to me, and below that devotional surface often lie even nastier elements, namely bigotry and anti-intellectualism that make large swaths of American Christainity extremely offputting .

On the other hand, I've heard the Plum Village dharma teachers say there is also a recognizable issue in Buddhism with a merely devotional practice, too. I think this is going to be more apparent in Asia, where Buddhist symbols have been assimilated in many Asian cultures, but those cultures still hold onto attachments, especially to material things.

There's a story told in the Plum Village Tradition of Gautama Buddha inviting Mara to tea after his enlightmenent and the establishment of his monastic community. It goes that Mara went to visit the Buddha at one of his monastic communities. (I am not sure this story exists in any of the classical Buddhist canon. It may be a story created by Thich Nhat Hanh, but it's good and instructive, so I don't mind if it's a modern story.) At first, Mara was blocked by the Buddha's disciples, but the Buddha saw Mara approaching and invited him to tea, much to the disciples' shock and chagrin. As Mara sits down, the Buddha asks how he's doing, and Mara complains that ever since the Buddha started teaching, many of Mara's devotees have abandoned their pursuit of desires and have instead taken up meditation and transforming their suffering. The Buddha commiserates and says "It's not so easy being the Buddha, either. I teach my students non-attachment, loving-kindness, and letting go, and what do they do? They all come to me and burn all this incense in my face and pray for wealth, for power, for a spouse, and they forget all about meditation!"

I doubt these soteriological deficiencies in both Christainity and Buddhism are completely comporable, since I do think there is something about the way the Jesus stories have been misused by the powerful in the West that have really made it quite toxic in many of its expressions, and I don't know if there's been that equivalent level of corruption in Buddhism. I'm just not as familiar, having only lived briefly in Asia, and that was not in a country with a majoriy Buddhist population anymore. But there does seem to be this human tendency toward becoming devotional towards a spiritual teacher that misses the mark, sometimes quite gravely. In his life, Thay Nhat Hanh has had to work against this tendency towards devotion towards himself, discouraging people from becoming attached to him or even ascribing supernatural qualities to him.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


Always wanting my partner to have vegetarian options we tried this Vietnamese place that moved next door to our Ethiopian place at the start of the pandemic for take out tonight. Then I noticed everything on the menu was vegan so she had tons of options and nice for me since I'm mostly going vegetarian these days too . It was all fantastic! Plus they had a sitting space for 8 at a large Zen alter in the dining room. Well be going back for sure.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Do you guys ever have days where you're just so resistant to meditating? The past week or so I've been having trouble focusing at work, my mind is just darting around like crazy from distraction to distraction and it's like a wrestling match with myself every day to get myself to sit down and meditate for ten minutes.

Beowulfs_Ghost
Nov 6, 2009

prom candy posted:

Do you guys ever have days where you're just so resistant to meditating? The past week or so I've been having trouble focusing at work, my mind is just darting around like crazy from distraction to distraction and it's like a wrestling match with myself every day to get myself to sit down and meditate for ten minutes.

If it makes you feel any better, tradition says that this sort of restless mind is only completely shaken off when one reaches the state of an arhat.

If your practice is more focused based, like breath counting or mantas, if feel for you. That is tough. These sorts of busy moments in life can come and go, so you may just have to tough out this cycle.

Another option is vipassana style meditation. As soon as you notice your mind is running down some trail, just label it. Just say to yourself "thinking". Or sometimes it is more helpful to differentiate between memories with "past", or plans with "future". And then just watch that line of inner dialogue end. It will inevitably start up again, you will get caught up in it, then remember you should be meditating, so you note to yourself that you are "thinking" again.

In this way you can kind of turn the constant distractions of life into a meditation object. And it can lead to insights. Getting faster at noting the thoughts as they arise can often lead to seeing what exactly is prompting the thought in the first place.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Beowulfs_Ghost posted:

If it makes you feel any better, tradition says that this sort of restless mind is only completely shaken off when one reaches the state of an arhat.

If your practice is more focused based, like breath counting or mantas, if feel for you. That is tough. These sorts of busy moments in life can come and go, so you may just have to tough out this cycle.

Another option is vipassana style meditation. As soon as you notice your mind is running down some trail, just label it. Just say to yourself "thinking". Or sometimes it is more helpful to differentiate between memories with "past", or plans with "future". And then just watch that line of inner dialogue end. It will inevitably start up again, you will get caught up in it, then remember you should be meditating, so you note to yourself that you are "thinking" again.

In this way you can kind of turn the constant distractions of life into a meditation object. And it can lead to insights. Getting faster at noting the thoughts as they arise can often lead to seeing what exactly is prompting the thought in the first place.

I pretty much always do breath, mantra, or like body scan type meditations. I think that's definitely the cause of resistance because I can feel myself just screaming "noooo don't make me focus on one boring thing!" I was so all over the place yesterday I couldn't even play Elden Ring for more than about 30 minutes. Not even anxious or worried, just zipping around from this to that. Maybe I'm destroying my mind with TikTok.

In vipassana after you notice and label a thought what comes next? The only practices I know always have you returning to some sort of object of focus.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


I've only had one day that I just could NOT meditate in the past month and a half-two months of nearly daily practice. I just shrugged and noted it and for me it went away. Of course I'm still a tiny baby at this.

One thing I did the other day (unrelated, unless...) was instead of just watching breathing, body scanning, or doing a short guided meditation, was allow myself to focus on what is causing my suffering. It was nice to, as some dharma talks I have watched said to, reach out and embrace my suffering, and keep it in a more objective place! I know the major sources for issues, and other manifestations that I have not so clearly tied to the central issues, but that was calming. I now feel much more capable to address these sources of issues. But lol I'm not sure how to proceed after this. Its like I read the text book so far, and have been left with my suffering at a cliffhanger.

I probably need to talk to a contemplative for next steps but in the meantime I will carry on with watching, say, Q&A talks with TNH for specific examples.

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prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Bilirubin posted:

One thing I did the other day (unrelated, unless...) was instead of just watching breathing, body scanning, or doing a short guided meditation, was allow myself to focus on what is causing my suffering. It was nice to, as some dharma talks I have watched said to, reach out and embrace my suffering, and keep it in a more objective place! I know the major sources for issues, and other manifestations that I have not so clearly tied to the central issues, but that was calming. I now feel much more capable to address these sources of issues. But lol I'm not sure how to proceed after this. Its like I read the text book so far, and have been left with my suffering at a cliffhanger.

My therapist actually recommended this for my health anxiety and it's super useful. Instead of running away from whatever symptom is driving me into a panic, I do a 2-3 minute meditation with the sensation as my object of focus. I also sometimes do this when I get headaches. Headaches aren't a source of anxiety for me but they are unpleasant. Turning towards them usually makes them much more tolerable.

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