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Yes, but the First Order/Empire are essentially toothless bad guys. They are so ubiquitous and on so many ice cream bars and baby pajamas and Burger King cups and such that they read more as just generic brands. They are about as threatening as Bowser from Mario Bros. A villain, sure, but emulating them isn't really problematic because they are so divorced from any connotations of actual scariness and evil. The only people who think Darth Vader is 'scary' are toddlers and 40 year old manchildren stressing about what order to watch Star Wars in. I imagine Dracula was once scary, and sometimes skilled filmmakers can make him scary for a brief few moments, but he's just been so commercialized in stuff aimed at kiddos that kids don't find him scary. Star Wars movies don't do the work to make the First Order look scary. When they blow up a few planets and presumably billions of people die, no one on screen really seems to care too much. Sure, they shoot some prisoners, but the good guys don't even bother to take prisoners at all. You can find all sorts of instances of the stormtroopers demanding someone to put down their weapons, and they typically capture the goodies several times in each movie without ever brutalizing them. The heroes just shoot first without asking anyone if they wanna give up. As a child at least I felt somewhat sympathetic to the Empire not because of any hidden Nazi beliefs - I just felt bad that they were getting slaughtered all the time by these smug people.
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Mar 15, 2022 08:15
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The only time the first order felt evil was when Phasma captured Finn and Rose and were about to murder them. And then Kylo becoming the leader made me think that under his control they would just go on whatever rampage that he wanted. Could’ve led to Hux trying to take back the order of the first order and caused a in fight which lead to Finn leading stormtroopers to take down the rest of the first order. Lol
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Mar 15, 2022 08:32
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CelticPredator posted:The only time the first order felt evil was when Phasma captured Finn and Rose and were about to murder them.
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Mar 15, 2022 08:43
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That, and also when they used a Great Value Death Star to kill billions of people about 90 minutes later.
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Mar 15, 2022 08:45
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Not even their introduction at the start of TFA where they murder a bunch of villagers? Yes, it's evil, but it doesn't really have any impact. They were an enemy village, and were firing on the Empire from the start of that scene. No one really cares. Poe is making quips among all the corpses. Disney Star Wars have a habit of trying to show you something 'real' and then moving on from it so quickly that it has no impact. When I saw TFA I thought it might actually have something to say about child soldiers being forced to fight against their will - Finn getting blood smeared on his face from his best buddy set up a movie in which this is a war fought by humans who feel human emotions. They throw that out pretty much immediately - the child soldier is giggling and whooping a few minutes later as he shoots up the only family he has ever known, including fellow child soldiers who are supposedly stuck in the same lovely situation, the very same guys he seemingly felt emotional about seeing slaughtered in the village landing. The scenes have no impact because they are just shuffled through. Obi Wan at least sells the destruction of Alderan as a tragedy, but most of the time these are just action figures getting smashed together. An earlier poster compared it to Mario Kart. The Rebels don't take prisoners either - I can't imagine they have vast camps or something. What would the Rebels do if thousands of stormtroopers gave up? Easier not to think about. I suppose the Mandalorian answers this by showing that they use them as slave labor when given the chance.
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Mar 15, 2022 08:58
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Gonz posted:That, and also when they used a Great Value Death Star to kill billions of people about 90 minutes later. Those people were nobody politicians. No one cares about them. Alderan has leia’s family being there, and that’s what gives you that connection.
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Mar 15, 2022 09:00
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Gonz posted:That, and also when they used a Great Value Death Star to kill billions of people about 90 minutes later. Yeah, sure, in a movie unwilling to spend a few seconds even telling us what this planet was or why it mattered. The characters don't care. Why should the audience? Admittedly I've seen the new movies only once or twice but I don't think they ever really bring it up again, beyond the idea that Kylo Ren can be 'redeemed' if he loves his family and Rey enough even if he also has billions of dead civilians on his rap sheet. Star Wars has never really cared about the politics. The idea that Darth Vader is 'redeemed' because he loved his son even though he murdered billions of people is emblematic of how the little people don't matter in Star Wars and no one really gives a poo poo. If the Empire are the Nazis, then this would be like Hitler getting redeemed after the Holocaust if he is willing to save his nephew Bill Hitler, even though he fights for the Allies. His ghost can chum it up with all the friends of the people he murdered, it's cool, he loves his family. Star Wars was never interested in politics, only aping the aesthetics of WW2. Is the Empire America or the UK? No. They just borrowed some Vietnam imagery for their Ewok fight, and the concept is never explored beyond Woodsy Guerillas vs Industrial Superpower. It is an aesthetic. The Ewoks have no politics and no opinion on anything, they just wanna eat people and they get impressed by a robot. Don't get me wrong, Star Wars is fun and I actually like Star Wars. But people wringing their hands about nerds cosplaying as completely toothless bad guys because OMG Nazis always reads as ridiculous to me. I am fine with it completely lacking in meaty political ideas because it is a movie aimed at 8 year olds who want to swing laser swords. I think the more the universe expands the more it looks ridiculous because Disney has to keep doing Star Wars stuff but make a story about a gigantic war with billions of deaths something that is fun for kids. You can see how they completely run themselves into a corner with this in the Book of Boba Fett. Boba Fett takes over a criminal empire to do crime and is seemingly against all sorts of crime, and the show can never bring itself to admit what the gently caress anyone in a criminal empire actually does. Return of the Jedi got away with it - Jabba is into smuggling, he's also a decadent hedonist who throws a big party. That's all we get of him, and it works, because it can imply he has his stubby fingers in a lot of pies. The Book of Boba Fett actually has to confront a Star Wars criminal empire with hours of screentime and it is unwilling to have them do any actual crimes. Instead Boba Fett the mercenary acts all surprised when his sidekick informs him that with money you can actually hire mercenaries, and instead of doing that they go and get a bunch of vanilla... farmers(?) to be their muscle in a city that is supposedly overrun with criminal scum. Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 09:07
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Is the Empire America or the UK? No. 
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Mar 15, 2022 09:17
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Bongo Bill posted:Villains are fun and cool. Thrawn disagrees. Mr. Grapes! posted:If anything, Disney has made the Space Nazis a lot more woke. They are now equal opportunity in race and gender. Their ideology consists of ... hating the good guys. They don't really seem to have any aims beyond sneering and being evil in a childish manner. Politically, both sides seem pretty similar in that they are cool with slave labor and massive collateral damage. It's pretty interesting to me actually that they didn't play into the discrimination more. Seems like such a super easy way to score points with nearly everyone. OR hey, make Phasma To be fair, the original Starwars Empire was supposedly rascist and sexist, but the movies itself don't do anything with that either. Other than Leia and Mon Mothma being the big driving forces of the rebellion as opposed to the empire which has 0 women. Most of the racism/sexism came from the EU as well.
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Mar 15, 2022 09:35
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The first order allows women but NO aliens
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Mar 15, 2022 09:43
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Can we get an answer from Disney as to where humans came from and how they successfully colonised like 70% of the galaxy? I don't care if they make it like a Stargate or Mass Effect Andromeda thing where they came from Earth, it just bugs me that no one ever addresses why one race lives everywhere and tends to be in charge. Like we know Rodians came from Rodia, Hutts from Hutta, Mon Calamari from Mon Cala. So where's Humana?
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Mar 15, 2022 10:05
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They can quote about it, but it doesn't really translate to the screen much beyond the aesthetics of Organized Military vs Rabble. They hit on the American Revolution and Vietnam because those are events that the average audience member has heard of, but they borrow nothing from those wars beyond some vague aesthetics. If they really cared about selling that idea than they probably shouldn't mix it up with all this Nazi imagery if they really wanted you to think of the Empire as the US.... or as Britain. It isn't even kept straight in the same sentence. Again, these aren't based off the real life examples because he is explicitly mentioning hayseeds in coonskin hats when the most victorious battles of the Americans in the Revolution was when they... dressed in blue uniforms and had cannons and fought in lines. Yes, the propaganda likes to go on about individualist guerillas but the war was won by a conventional army fighting in conventional ways. You could say the same thing about Vietnam - it was incredibly rare that a bunch of guerillas would just clown on a gigantic American force - generally the Americans would win engagements with ease with their high tech weapons, they were just unable to motivate enough locals to support the Saigon gov't. North Vietnam won with a traditional tank offensive into the South using superior strength and numbers. Star Wars and Aliens borrow a popular aesthetic that existed in war movies but on nothing more than a surface level. They aren't really referencing historical events. They are referencing movies and tropes about those events. The Rebels are low-tech when the aesthetic demands it, and then that idea doesn't exist when the X-Wings are far more technically advanced than the Tie-Fighters. 'Low-tech' rebels have shields, warp drives, torpedos, targeting droid assistants, etc. It's cool Lucas can reference that stuff, but he does so on only a very superficial level where he is borrowing visual tropes from those conflicts and little else. Like I said before, I am cool with it - the people who read too much into it and get Very Upset if some teen girl is swooning over a space Nazi are taking it too seriously. Lucas is like Tarantino in that he borrows the visuals of a whole jumble of different things. It's cool. It just means those things are often put in for aesthetic reasons and they sometimes don't really mean anything. Star Wars is WW2 when it wants to be and Vietnam when it wants to be and really what it wants is just to borrow some iconic visuals from the wars without nosing in on any of the politics present in them beyond the very basic trope of Evil Organized Guys vs Scrappy Rebels. If Star Wars was really WW2 then the Empire should be the outnumbered and less technologically advanced society that is constantly pressed by overwhelming numbers of enemies they cannot hope to defeat in a conventional manner. Instead, Star Wars is WW2 because Nazi uniforms are scary and cool and George Lucas saw the Dambusters and that's mostly it.
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Mar 15, 2022 10:08
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stev posted:Can we get an answer from Disney as to where humans came from and how they successfully colonised like 70% of the galaxy? I don't care if they make it like a Stargate or Mass Effect Andromeda thing where they came from Earth, it just bugs me that no one ever addresses why one race lives everywhere and tends to be in charge. Mr. Grapes! posted:[snip]
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Mar 15, 2022 10:10
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Darth TNT posted:Thrawn disagrees. It seems like it would have been the very easy villainous shorthand to make the bad guys discriminate against people. It would probably make the movies more successful in that it would be a nice easy lazy way to make the bad guys bad. It happens in loads of other properties. The difference with Star Wars though is the merchandise. It is harder to have cuddly plush First Order toys and costumes if they actually canonically hate women or black people or something like that. Your standard tropey WW2 movie can have a sneering Nazi rail about the evils of world Jewry but the writers don't have to sell a few million bucks worth of sneering Nazi beach towels. They don't have sneering Nazi visiting children's hospitals. Sneering Nazi doesn't get to do fortnight dances.
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Mar 15, 2022 10:14
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Mr. Grapes! posted:The Rebels are low-tech when the aesthetic demands it, and then that idea doesn't exist when the X-Wings are far more technically advanced than the Tie-Fighters. 'Low-tech' rebels have shields, warp drives, torpedos, targeting droid assistants, etc. this is all EU stuff, tbqh. there's nothing in the films to suggest that the x-wing is particularly more advanced than the standard TIE, beyond maybe that one line in ANH about how tie fighters don't go too far from their base of operations. the tie fighters might not need an astromech to do targeting. it's just video games and RPGs that made the rebel fighters so much better.
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Mar 15, 2022 10:18
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The United States posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-j69iVReEU Yes, I agree completely. What I am trying to say, which shouldn't exactly be news to anyone, is that Star Wars has always ignored the politics/themes of its historical references in favor of just aping the aesthetics. This tendency has gotten more pronounced in the Disney era, maybe because the Mouse House has a cuddlier image they wanna project. My main point is that we shouldn't really get upset if little kids love the Empire or dress up like stormtroopers because Star Wars has divorced these characters from any real historical events or ideology and instead just borrows the visual flair. The Imperials are not Nazis, they are just Saturday morning cartoon bad guys that have some visual references to historical events while trying to avoid any actual political baggage that goes with it. The Rebels are scrappy because that is their aesthetic, and even when they win the war and take over the galaxy then they still must somehow also be outnumbered and on the run because they don't stand for anything beyond Scrappy Hopeful and they can't be that if they actually won the war and have to govern billions of lovely people. The newer movies are more pronounced in this in that the world-building is rather haphazard and no one is really aware of what people are fighting for, beyond the usual Jedi-Sith pissing match which ultimately comes down to Sith being evil because they wanna be evil. They don't really have any aims beyond cackling and gloating. The Star Wars universe seems to be pretty lovely no matter who is in charge. We have slavery alive and well during the Old Republic, the Empire, the New Republic. We have backwater planets run by corrupt gangsters and full of violent anarchy in all three eras. We have ostensibly ordered governments controlled by warmongering religious zealots. It's cool, it's just action figures. I like Mario Bros too. To Lucas' credit I would say the prequels despite being lovely do at least engage with the political themes. At the time of release that was also considered a flaw by a lot of people who were bored by Senate skullduggery and wanted more laser swords and dogfights. Mr. Grapes! fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 10:22
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Horizon Burning posted:this is all EU stuff, tbqh. there's nothing in the films to suggest that the x-wing is particularly more advanced than the standard TIE, beyond maybe that one line in ANH about how tie fighters don't go too far from their base of operations. the tie fighters might not need an astromech to do targeting. it's just video games and RPGs that made the rebel fighters so much better. Yes, and no. I guess that's another example of the more Star Wars we see, the more ridiculous it becomes. The X-Wings are never described technically in the movies but literally everytime we see them they are outnumbered by Tie Fighters yet have no problem chewing their way through them, even though ostensibly the TIEs are piloted by guys who went through actual flight school vs random yahoos, many of whom in the EU got their skill by learning at .... Imperial Flight School. The Empire has advanced body armor which.... does nothing at all, ever, in any scene in any movie game or whatever. I am actually curious - I know nothing of the EU beyond playing a few videogames, but is there ever a scene in which Stormtrooper armor provides value in blocking attacks? Sticks, punches, Ewok-rocks, all have no problem piercing this high-tech armor.
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Mar 15, 2022 10:26
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Mr. Grapes! posted:The X-Wings are never described technically in the movies but literally everytime we see them they are outnumbered by Tie Fighters yet have no problem chewing their way through them, even though ostensibly the TIEs are piloted by guys who went through actual flight school vs random yahoos, many of whom in the EU got their skill by learning at .... Imperial Flight School. there's like one time in the original trilogy where we can maybe consider the rebel fighters outnumbered by their imperial equivalent (battle of endor) and there are tons of shots of them getting chewed up. battle of yavin has a major plot point where the imperial fighter defences aren't sortied. in rogue one we know that the rebels take severe losses and we see multiple x-wings bite it. it seems like you're thinking of maybe poe's dumb bullshit in the sequels but that's pretty much atonal and silly. there really isn't anything to suggest that the x-wing is especially superior to the tie fighter beyond that it has two extra lasers (when two seem sufficient) and a hyperdrive (unnecessary if you have a carrier ship.) mention is made of "deflector screens" but no mention is made of ties lacking them (and we never see the shields save a pilot's life.) i think there's design documents from the original films that indicate that the tie fighter and the x-wing were supposed to be roughly equivalent (and the y-wing was supposed to be very fast -- something else the fandom ignored for "game balance.") it's really just something the fandom has internalised, probably from the original x-wing video game. in the battle of yavin, when vader does get some fighters in the air, seemingly whoever he can get on short notice over tarkin's authority, it's not even a full squadron and he doesn't account for the full thirty-or-so rebel craft himself (and the turbolasers are having a lot of trouble hitting the rebel craft.) we also know that three of those ties were downed by the falcon. similarly, the battle of endor: much of the imperial fleet there has not been ordered to attack, they're to stand by and keep the rebels in place so sheev can have fun with his new toy. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 11:30
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CelticPredator posted:Those people were nobody politicians. No one cares about them. It's a figure of speach, Morty. They're bureaucrats.
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Mar 15, 2022 11:32
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There are visual indications that X-wings and so forth are more advanced than TIEs, like them having a sealed oxygenated environment whereas TIE pilots have to wear full spacesuits, ability to go at lightspeed in episode 5 onwards, etcstev posted:Can we get an answer from Disney as to where humans came from and how they successfully colonised like 70% of the galaxy? I don't care if they make it like a Stargate or Mass Effect Andromeda thing where they came from Earth, it just bugs me that no one ever addresses why one race lives everywhere and tends to be in charge. Humans implicitly come from Coruscant
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Mar 15, 2022 14:35
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Mr. Grapes! posted:They can quote about it, but it doesn't really translate to the screen much beyond the aesthetics of Organized Military vs Rabble. They hit on the American Revolution and Vietnam because those are events that the average audience member has heard of, but they borrow nothing from those wars beyond some vague aesthetics. If they really cared about selling that idea than they probably shouldn't mix it up with all this Nazi imagery if they really wanted you to think of the Empire as the US.... or as Britain. It isn't even kept straight in the same sentence. There is a senator in the Clone Wars that advocates for occupying a desert planet ostensibly to "fight terrorists" but who is actually lobbying for a corporation that will profit from a prolonged occupation. The name of the senator is Halle Burtoni
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Mar 15, 2022 15:03
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Horizon Burning posted:there really isn't anything to suggest that the x-wing is especially superior to the tie fighter beyond that it has two extra lasers (when two seem sufficient) and a hyperdrive (unnecessary if you have a carrier ship.) mention is made of "deflector screens" but no mention is made of ties lacking them (and we never see the shields save a pilot's life.) Those things seem to suggest that the x-wings are superior though? Torpedos, extra lasers, and a massively superior range are pretty significant.
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Mar 15, 2022 15:07
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Yes, I agree completely. What I am trying to say, which shouldn't exactly be news to anyone, is that Star Wars has always ignored the politics/themes of its historical references in favor of just aping the aesthetics. This tendency has gotten more pronounced in the Disney era, maybe because the Mouse House has a cuddlier image they wanna project. You are just indulging in cynicism, which leads you straight to the lie that these War films are apolitical. That’s ideology at its purest. In actuality, the Empire is very unambiguously fascist. People are just ok with dressing as stormtroopers because they are generally ok with fascist imagery, not ‘taking it too seriously’. It’s about as shocking and offensive as a ‘sexy cop’ Halloween costume - but that doesn’t mean we can’t examine what’s going on there. You might be getting too caught up in Disney’s ST films, where the villains are generically totalitarian commu-nazis. Yet, even then, the First Order are specifically Space Soviets infiltrated by a fascist conspiracy. That's a major difference from the Empire - and curiously does make the First Order cosplay more 'acceptable', in ways that Disney may not have intended. What we have in the ST is an ostalgie for Vader’s revolution against the Empire - even if it was immediately botched by the rebels, and necessarily produced this Snokist (Space-Stalinist) outcome. Snoke remains forever distinct from Palpatine. “It is here that one has to make a choice. The ‘pure’ liberal attitude towards Leftist and Rightist ‘totalitarianism’ – that they are both bad, based on the intolerance of political and other differences, the rejection of democratic and humanist values etc – is a priori false. It is necessary to take sides and proclaim Fascism fundamentally ‘worse’ than Communism.” (Zizek) By subtracting actual ideological conflict from “real historical events”, Star Wars actually gives us the truth: People will join forces with the liberal Alliance against the fascists, but only reluctantly. We all know Leia is a failure who ultimately stands for nothing but an ‘inclusive’ regression into space-feudalism. When Palpatine’s not around, what exactly are we fighting for? In the three seasons of Mandalorian, characters typically grow to become some species of cop. The narrative is about ‘restoring law and order’ in a reactionary way - combatting the bandit of the week, or whatever, but without any clear positive project. (In a way, Gina Carano did us a favour by spontaneously aborting the New Republic cop show.) An enormous ambiguity pervades everything, as everyone longs for ‘progress’ but is unsure how to accomplish it. Basically, a spectre is haunting Disney Star Wars: the spectre of Vaderism. It’s unavoidable, but they cannot speak of it directly. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 15:25
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That makes me wonder if there were any socialist westerns .
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Mar 15, 2022 15:28
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Mr. Grapes! posted:I think everyone who gets upset about people liking the First Order reads too much into these movies. They are an aesthetic first and foremost, and a convenient foil when you want to have your heroes kill millions of people but not feel bad doing it. The reason they wear scary helmets is so you don't see some teenage conscript scream in agony when our hero kills him and quips. You are so, so close here to understanding the criticism lol Step 1 is probably recognizing that lucas and Disney handled all of this differently
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Mar 15, 2022 16:06
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Mr. Grapes! posted:The Rebels are low-tech when the aesthetic demands it, and then that idea doesn't exist when the X-Wings are far more technically advanced than the Tie-Fighters. 'Low-tech' rebels have shields, warp drives, torpedos, targeting droid assistants, etc. The "low tech vs high tech" thing definitely got muddled, which is why Lucas put the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. Lucas was originally supposed to direct Apocalypse Now, but after THX-1138 kind of torpedoed American Zoetrope, he put some of those ideas into Star Wars instead. In early drafts, the Rebels weren't really a thing, and the heroes blew up the Death Star by teaming up with a group of native Wookiees to steal some ships from an Imperial base that had encroached on their home territory. When Lucas invented an actual Rebellion against the Empire with its own starships and everything, the movie started to lose a lot of the direct Vietnam allegory and started sliding towards World War II stuff. In one draft, the Rebels' technology was even directly responsible for their victory, with Threepio being the one to calculate the correct trajectory for the bomb with his superior robot brain. Lucas had to insert the failure of the Rebels' targeting computer to try to get back to the "technology vs humanity" theme he started out with. The Making of Star Wars posted:In enlarging the treatment to what became a nearly two-hundred-page rough draft, Lucas was continually aided by the transference of his Apocalypse Now ideas to the fantasy realm. Some of his notes scribbled on yellow legal pads are: “Theme: Aquilae is a small independent country like North Vietnam threatened by a neighbor or provincial rebellion, instigated by gangsters aided by empire. Fight to get rightful planet back. Half of system has been lost to gangsters … The empire is like America ten years from now, after gangsters assassinated the Emperor and were elevated to power in a rigged election … We are at a turning point: fascism or revolution.”
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Mar 15, 2022 17:16
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Well it makes sense that Disney dropped all of those themes since they're no longer relevant in today's world anyway.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:19
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Lucas’s Star Wars is about American imperialism and Richard Nixon (Palpatine) Disney’s Star Wars is about incels and vocels Got to keep up with the times
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Mar 15, 2022 18:44
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Who else remembers when the nazis were defeated in Vietnam the US were the nazis in Vietnam
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Mar 15, 2022 18:48
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euphronius posted:That makes me wonder if there were any socialist westerns . Duck You Sucker
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Mar 15, 2022 18:50
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The Empire is an element of a story about a liberal democracy becoming a fascist dictatorship. It's a pastiche of many various signifiers of fascism, so it somewhat lacks specificity relative to works that interrogate a fascist worldview, but it's pretty clear what's going on. The First Order is an element of a continuation of that story under very different authorship. A thematic discontinuity isn't surprising.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:By subtracting actual ideological conflict from “real historical events”, Star Wars actually gives us the truth: People will join forces with the liberal Alliance against the fascists, but only reluctantly. We all know Leia is a failure who ultimately stands for nothing but an ‘inclusive’ regression into space-feudalism. When Palpatine’s not around, what exactly are we fighting for? Thus the necessity of imagining e.g. Putin, Hussein as Hitler.
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Mar 15, 2022 19:31
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Those things seem to suggest that the x-wings are superior though? Torpedos, extra lasers, and a massively superior range are pretty significant. no, that suggests they have different roles which is indicative of the rebel alliance's differing doctrinal needs from the empire. but we don't ever see x-wings "chewing through" large numbers of tie fighters.
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Mar 15, 2022 21:29
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Star Wars has never really cared about the politics. The idea that Darth Vader is 'redeemed' because he loved his son even though he murdered billions of people is emblematic of how the little people don't matter in Star Wars and no one really gives a poo poo. If the Empire are the Nazis, then this would be like Hitler getting redeemed after the Holocaust if he is willing to save his nephew Bill Hitler, even though he fights for the Allies. His ghost can chum it up with all the friends of the people he murdered, it's cool, he loves his family. Star Wars was never interested in politics, only aping the aesthetics of WW2. I really don't follow the logic, here. Star Wars doesn't care about politics because if it did we would have shown Darth Vader burning in hell?
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Mar 15, 2022 21:30
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We did see Vader burn in hell tho
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Mar 15, 2022 21:33
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Bongo Bill posted:The Empire is an element of a story about a liberal democracy becoming a fascist dictatorship. It's a pastiche of many various signifiers of fascism, so it somewhat lacks specificity relative to works that interrogate a fascist worldview, but it's pretty clear what's going on. It isn’t a product of different authorship; the ST is literally about The (Galactic) Cold War. What the different authors and artists provide are simply different perspectives on ‘why the Cold War happened and what it was all about’. Of course, many of these takes are extremely dumb.
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Mar 15, 2022 21:39
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CelticPredator posted:We did see Vader burn in hell tho oh yeah! we totally do, lol
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Mar 15, 2022 22:02
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Mr. Grapes! posted:The Rebels are low-tech when the aesthetic demands it, and then that idea doesn't exist when the X-Wings are far more technically advanced than the Tie-Fighters. 'Low-tech' rebels have shields, warp drives, torpedos, targeting droid assistants, etc. Not a popular take, but I think all the "fighter specs" stuff is EU (and therefore false). X-Wings have shields apparently since they techno-babble about them, but they go down just as easily as any TIE
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Mar 15, 2022 23:09
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Not a popular take, but I think all the "fighter specs" stuff is EU (and therefore false). X-Wings have shields apparently since they techno-babble about them, but they go down just as easily as any TIE Absolutely. Even the stuff with TIE pilots wearing full body spacesuits is just a reflection of how the Imperial soldiers have obscured faces as opposed to the Rebellion.
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Mar 15, 2022 23:33
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Not a popular take, but I think all the "fighter specs" stuff is EU (and therefore false). X-Wings have shields apparently since they techno-babble about them, but they go down just as easily as any TIE Wedge takes a hit and survives in ANH (Luke kinda does too) but I don't think we ever see a TIE survive anything do we?
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Mar 15, 2022 23:42
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