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Turin Turambar posted:You know what, what I remember from Snow Crash is the weirder aspects of the setting. But... I don't remember anything of the famous 'Metaverse' from the novel... I remember the mc made his own katana dueling game within the metaverse and it was really famous but he was always #1 at it. Also fully functional avatars were a very valuable commodity, also worked based on where you can login from and what computer youre using
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Mar 15, 2022 18:03
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In Snow Crash the place he used to work for (and cashed out early, buying his mom retirement in the process so it was "worth it" even though he missed out on the real money) ends up being a super-popular hangout online because they rolled a proprietary face & body-tracking system that blew everything else out of the water, and made meeting online as good as meeting in person. (Therefore people use it for everything including huge business deals, etc instead of getting on a plane, etc) That part sounds pretty relatable actually. Related: a lot of Vernor Vinge's ideas were really ahead of their time as well: - Ubiquitous mixed reality that can be filtered to whatever level, and people who just drench everything in what we would today call memes. - Hyper-specific interest groups (basically Pokemon Go factions) make a niche hobby their entire identity and factionalize to the point that they wage all-out war with each other online (entirely invisible to most people not "involved"). - The loss of privacy online: private information is so efficiently hoovered up by Facebook-alikes (before Facebook even existed) to the point where the only mitigation is to flood false data about everyone and everything to pollute the waters. The guy was really ahead of his time.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:24
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Verging off topic but one of my favorite little things in a Vinge book is in one when one group takes over the spaceship of another and one of the first things they do to make rebellion more difficult is replace all of the tablets and HUD stuff with their own UI which is lovely and hard to use and people complain about it constantly. UI's having any sort of friction at all is almost always overlooked in sci fi.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:32
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The Eyes Have It posted:In Snow Crash the place he used to work for (and cashed out early, buying his mom retirement in the process so it was "worth it" even though he missed out on the real money) ends up being a super-popular hangout online because they rolled a proprietary face & body-tracking system that blew everything else out of the water, and made meeting online as good as meeting in person. (Therefore people use it for everything including huge business deals, etc instead of getting on a plane, etc) The funny part is that (in my opinion) this is a large source of misunderstanding of tech bros about why people think the metaverse in Snow Crash is cool - people point to different characteristics of the Metaverse as to why people would want to be in it (it's high fidelity! it's like being in real life! you can be anyone you want! there are all these cool things you can do!), instead of understanding why any of those things matter. Hiro learned how to use a sword in VR and then those skills translated to real life when he actually needed to be a Cool Badass and fight guys with swords. When he went on the motorcycle chase in the Metaverse to stop the virus from spreading, he applied what he learned both from his real life and the Metaverse to using his sweet motorcycle riding abilities to save the world The reason why the Metaverse is compelling is not because of *what it is* but *what it means*. Being awesome in the Metaverse meant something because the stakes in that virtual world were real and mattered. You could be a loser in real life but a Cool Badass in the Metaverse, but you weren't just a cool badass, you were a cool badass who could actually save the real life world. The misunderstanding is that by making virtual worlds people will automatically love it, but they misunderstand that the virtual world gives meaning to people who can't find it in other places. I think this is why the Zenith player curve looks like this  I think what people desperately want is a virtual world where there are actual stakes and it feels like your contributions make a difference, because so many parts of real life don't actually feel that way. I think people mischaracterize this desire as just being for an abstract virtual world where you have total freedom and can do whatever you want, but we already effectively have that but it's just not that interesting to people. I don't think there's any technology that you can throw at this that will make people want to spend time there, but there needs to be a change in thinking in how to approach building these worlds Side note that I think that Eve Online is the closest thing we have to an actual virtual world with interesting stakes, and there's a reason why the game has both survived so long and attracted so much outside interest from people who don't even play the game; it's really cool to hear about crazy heists or giant wars that end with a total shift in control of that virtual world. The downside is that the game itself loving sucks lmao
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Mar 15, 2022 20:21
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For sure the search for meaning and fulfillment has universal appeal, and the genuine worth of making virtual stuff "matter" I think is a really good insight.
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Mar 15, 2022 20:33
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Super hot needs a "no, for real, make your guardian smaller" warning. that mean orange man was hiding inside my wall and I couldn't reach his hit box. I cant throw for poo poo and I hurt my hand trying to punch someone. A++ realism
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Mar 15, 2022 20:40
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Turin Turambar posted:You know what, what I remember from Snow Crash is the weirder aspects of the setting. But... I don't remember anything of the famous 'Metaverse' from the novel... Same here. Haven’t read Snow Crash in at least a decade but I remember all the wild RL stuff like the mega church pastor who bought a decommissioned aircraft carrier and formed a floating city around it, a motorcycle with a nuke strapped on it, the mad max pizza delivery job, cybernetic guard dogs who were really just abused good boys deep down, a loving Gatling gun called Reason (“they’ll listen to Reason” always made me laugh) - but I don’t recall basically anything particularly interesting about the VR world. Honestly I can’t even really think of a compelling fictional VR world that didn’t either have contrived stakes like Sword Art Online or else the real world was literally unlivable like the Matrix. Stuff like Ready Player One never struck a chord with me.
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Mar 15, 2022 20:43
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Maldraedior posted:Super hot needs a "no, for real, make your guardian smaller" warning. that mean orange man was hiding inside my wall and I couldn't reach his hit box. Superhot secretly sucks I hope this helps
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Mar 15, 2022 21:06
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It’s not a secret. It has the worst throwing mechanics in VR and is almost entirely throwing. Somehow pokerstarsvr has throwing mechanics that are 100x better
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Mar 16, 2022 00:39
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Lemming posted:The funny part is that (in my opinion) this is a large source of misunderstanding of tech bros about why people think the metaverse in Snow Crash is cool - people point to different characteristics of the Metaverse as to why people would want to be in it (it's high fidelity! it's like being in real life! you can be anyone you want! there are all these cool things you can do!), instead of understanding why any of those things matter. Hiro learned how to use a sword in VR and then those skills translated to real life when he actually needed to be a Cool Badass and fight guys with swords. When he went on the motorcycle chase in the Metaverse to stop the virus from spreading, he applied what he learned both from his real life and the Metaverse to using his sweet motorcycle riding abilities to save the world In general, I think you are right, but there is very definitely tech they could throw at Zenith to make it more popular. I'd play way more of it if it didn't make my wrists hurt to keep gripping the side buttons on my controllers whenever I want to have my weapons equipped. Which is mostly always.
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Mar 16, 2022 01:11
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Superhot was ok, but it came across as very smug. It's not nearly as good a game as it seems to think it is.
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Mar 16, 2022 01:13
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SuperHot seems kind of old these days, because in terms of vr it is.
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Mar 16, 2022 01:18
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New cable arrived and fixed my issue immediately (thank you Valve) - the old cable has been gifted to Miss Malory so she can complete its destruction. In other news, I'm now getting *abysmal* performance, and I'm wondering if my new monitor has something to do with it - the last time I used SteamVR my primary display was 1920 x 1080 @60hz; now it's 5120 x 1440 @240hz with HDR enabled. Am I right in thinking that there'd be a performance hit in such a change to resolution/refresh rate on my primary monitor or should it not have much of an effect?
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Mar 16, 2022 02:21
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sarcastx posted:New cable arrived and fixed my issue immediately (thank you Valve) - the old cable has been gifted to Miss Malory so she can complete its destruction. I hope you've put a cover over your new cable, since you've decided to train your cat to bite em...
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Mar 16, 2022 03:05
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Hyperlynx posted:I hope you've put a cover over your new cable, since you've decided to train your cat to bite em... Yeah seriously, hahaha Also superhot is still really good, it's usually the game I'll fire up to show new people to VR on my Q2. The graphics are simple but are really work for the VR space and the gameplay is super intuitive It's also old as gently caress in VR terms
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Mar 16, 2022 03:53
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sarcastx posted:New cable arrived and fixed my issue immediately (thank you Valve) - the old cable has been gifted to Miss Malory so she can complete its destruction. Get yourself one of those plastic 4-5 meter cable sheathes intended for office use and wrap your Index cable in it. They bend well enough to let you move around in VR, and Miss Malory won't be able to (at least as easily) nibble her way through it to your expensive Index cable.
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Mar 16, 2022 04:30
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sarcastx posted:In other news, I'm now getting *abysmal* performance, and I'm wondering if my new monitor has something to do with it - the last time I used SteamVR my primary display was 1920 x 1080 @60hz; now it's 5120 x 1440 @240hz with HDR enabled. I'd be curious to know if that has any effect at all. I also did the same upgrade.
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Mar 16, 2022 04:39
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Superhot VR was designed for the drat CV1, and as somebody who had a CV1 it was amazing. It's just sucked on every other headset since and they barely updated or patched it.
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Mar 16, 2022 05:09
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I was wondering if I was crazy, because I really liked superhot VR. But I have a CV1.
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Mar 16, 2022 07:03
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I noticed today is the daily deal in Oculus is Carve Snowboarding, for 13€. Alas, I cannot recommend it as technically is a mess. They needed several months to implement AA on Quest 2, and I see they have removed now 90hz support??
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Mar 16, 2022 09:06
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https://developer.oculus.com/blog/air-link-framerate-insurance-afi/ Oculus explains their new system AFI, for applying a bit of ASW on the Quest side when using pc games.
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Mar 16, 2022 09:55
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Been playing windlands and it's pretty fun. It's sort of like a Spider-Man game because you use these grappling hooks to latch on to things and swing around. Worth a shot if you enjoy web swinging.
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Mar 16, 2022 11:08
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Turin Turambar posted:I noticed today is the daily deal in Oculus is Carve Snowboarding, for 13€. Alas, I cannot recommend it as technically is a mess. I haven't played that one, but I still haven't seen any skiing games that have as good skiing mechanics as my Downhill Skiing SteamVR environment. 
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Mar 16, 2022 12:44
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sarcastx posted:In other news, I'm now getting *abysmal* performance, and I'm wondering if my new monitor has something to do with it - the last time I used SteamVR my primary display was 1920 x 1080 @60hz; now it's 5120 x 1440 @240hz with HDR enabled.
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Mar 16, 2022 14:00
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Teens will hate this! https://www.oculus.com/blog/introducing-future-vr-parental-supervision-tools-to-help-support-families/ edit: Also, Road to VR have revised their PC VR stats :  They were a bit too optimistic with the numbers before. My two cents are... pessimistic. You are going to wait another 13-15 years to have AAA PC VR games at this pace. 2021 growth was too small, AND it counted with the help of Meta offering a very cheap headset (subsidized?), as you can see from Quest use in Steam stats growing hugely in the last four months of the year. Without it, 2021 could have be closed with less PC VR headsets than end of 2020. Not that everything is super great in the Quest part of the equation. I expected at this point to start having more releases of games in 2022, than in 2021 and still isn't the case. The first Quest will be soon 3 years old, devs had time to start focusing on it, so the platform could start having in total a higher cadence of releases. AppLab number aren't high enough (with exceptions, yes, Lemming) to compensate, either. Only six games released on AppLab in the last six months got more than 150 ratings. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 15:08
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The problem as I see it is that the Quest is a good headset at a good price, the problem is that all the marketing around the Quest makes it look like the least cool thing possible since it focuses on Horizon Worlds, a thing most people either don't care about or actively hate rather than any of the actual games. I'd be interested if some research company did a survey around public attitudes towards the Quest and how many people who don't have one think it's not even a gaming device.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:17
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Horizon Worlds looks like the ultimate board pitch deck slide, while you're secretly working on Doom 7 VR "Oh yeah, horizons was a total blow out failure, we stopped any development on horizons six weeks before launch.... But check out Doon 7 VR!!!"
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Mar 16, 2022 16:26
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Hadlock posted:Horizon Worlds looks like the ultimate board pitch deck slide, while you're secretly working on Doom 7 VR Now I want a dune knife fight vr game, thanks.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:32
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What would be the gimmick mechanic be
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Mar 16, 2022 16:34
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Hadlock posted:What would be the gimmick mechanic be desert power
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Mar 16, 2022 17:04
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Hadlock posted:What would be the gimmick mechanic be You have to be slow
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Mar 16, 2022 17:06
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voice recognition of killing words
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Mar 16, 2022 17:16
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You have to hold your hand perfectly still for 5 minutes when loading the game every time or a gom jabbar kills you and forcequits
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Mar 16, 2022 17:29
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Corbeau posted:I was wondering if I was crazy, because I really liked superhot VR. But I have a CV1. I had a CV1, and it was great, and then I traded it for a Rift S and it was still pretty good but the throwing was a little worse because sometimes I'd try to throw from behind my head and it was a little off. Then I traded that for an Index, and the throwing totally sucks now. Or at least I assume it sucks, I barely played it on my Index because I also moved into a new place with a ceiling fan, and I broke the globe off my ceiling fan the first time I booted it up.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:21
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Turin Turambar posted:Teens will hate this! I think/hope what we might be missing for better VR growth is the Deckard, or at least an equivalent of it. An open-platform x86 standalone headset would unify portable and PC-tethered VR and make it a lot less of a headache to build a game or app for that everyone can use regardless of whether they have a VR-capable PC or not (vs forking and managing a separate Android build for Quest). Nobody's gonna touch a Quest for anything professional because it's a Facebook device, and all the security concerns that go with it, and HTC just seems to live in their own little fantasy world ignoring the realities of VR and their competitor's hardware.
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Mar 17, 2022 03:57
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I don't think htc has the budget or willpower to hire graduate level researcher(s), at best they've got a handful of idiot savants disassembling quest 2 and working around Facebook patents to reproduce technology already on the market That the vive came out and was popular was a happy accident that allowed them to bail out of bankruptcy but they're only half a step ahead of the Pi and Star people As much as I hate it, Facebook has an enormous lead in the market and nobody else is investing the research dollars to try and out compete them, or even compete, really Very interested to see it Facebook actually executes on a commercial grade headset, the pro models by their competitors are pretty sad and stale at this point
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Mar 17, 2022 04:17
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Is the time even right though for an x86 standalone? It would definitely change things, but how would someone even do it without some serious compromises? Maybe, there's probably stuff I don't know, but I cant imagine a headset with a powerful enough, basically, PC, inside of it not being the world's heaviest headset, or not being very hot, or very expensive, or being good enough to pull off the majority of PCVR without a low framerate/seriously dialed back graphics. I don't see any current igpu being good enough, even the very best from AMD is "could pull it off, but you wouldn't really want to." And you go the dgpu route and now you've got price, size, heat, everything else to deal with. Maybe in a few years?
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Mar 17, 2022 04:24
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Hadlock posted:I don't think htc has the budget or willpower to hire graduate level researcher(s), at best they've got a handful of idiot savants disassembling quest 2 and working around Facebook patents to reproduce technology already on the market Wouldn't HTC have had Valve people assisting with building the Vive too? BrainDance posted:Is the time even right though for an x86 standalone? It would definitely change things, but how would someone even do it without some serious compromises? The testbed for it, theoretically, exists on the market right now; the Steam Deck. One of the hypotheses for it partly existing (because Valve likes their R&D projects and tend to run on their own internal whims) is to plug in the gaps between their VR hardware knowledge and what would need to go into making a standalone headset.
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Mar 17, 2022 04:31
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I think a headset that uses the Steam Deck would be pretty compelling. Stick the Steam Deck in a fanny pack and route a USB cable to the headset. You could pull a lot of the stuff out of the headset so it would be light. The Steam Deck is also a little more powerful than the Quest 2 (~1.6 TFlops to ~1.2 TFlops from what I've been able to Google), so a lot of the Quest 2 games would already be most of the way there in terms of a port. If they opt to still use Lighthouse, I could see a headset with its own little battery inside with maybe an SoC to process the positional data and send it back to the Steam Deck. They may also get rid of Lighthouse and use cameras to save on battery, but I just don't see Valve doing that since they are so far behind Facebook in using cameras for VR. Honestly, though, I doubt any of this will ever happen. I just don't see Valve as a company that has the capability to do multiple huge projects like this at once.
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Mar 17, 2022 04:57
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BrainDance posted:Is the time even right though for an x86 standalone? It would definitely change things, but how would someone even do it without some serious compromises? In terms of CPU performance and efficiency, what the Deck uses is already good enough. The only thing stopping portable PCVR today is graphics performance, something Quest works around with bespoke ports with extremely stripped down assets and simplified shaders. The Deck is a bit under 1050 mobile when it it needs to be GTX1060. But since they have total access to the entire graphics pipeline (all APIs wrap through their stack and run on drivers they can patch with whatever they want) using SteamOS they may be able to "cheat". If they can roll out driver-level VRS like they're planning to on Deck, combining that with dynamic foveated rendering and eye tracking has the potential to massively reduce the performance target they have to hit for VR.
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Mar 17, 2022 05:11
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