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I'm not watching it. I'm already on Ukraine's side, and I don't need my day to get any worse.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:09
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A.o.D. posted:I'm not watching it. I'm already on Ukraine's side, and I don't need my day to get any worse. agreed. It sounds almost gratuitous.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:11
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Gotta laugh that I associate Russian ATGMs with an early 2000s goon scat fetishist
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Mar 16, 2022 18:13
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Cimber posted:agreed. It sounds almost gratuitous. I don't condemn it. It's necessary propaganda created to persuade those that can be moved by an emotional argument who might otherwise favor accomodations and appeasement, or who think that support should be limited.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:15
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A.o.D. posted:I don't condemn it. It's necessary propaganda created to persuade those that can be moved by an emotional argument who might otherwise favor accomodations and appeasement, or who think that support should be limited. agreed it was part of a very well put together speech and designed to hammer the point home hard as gently caress. and it def did that.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:18
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Cimber posted:agreed. It sounds almost gratuitous. I mean the Russians did this just hours after Ukraine released that video https://twitter.com/dkaleniuk/status/1504144136936607746?t=VAtqZbCQ10Y5WiCxYUQpFg&s=19 Children in Ukraine are dying every day. Forcing people to acknowledge that doesn't qualify as "gratuitous"
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Mar 16, 2022 18:19
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Platystemon posted:
Yo ho ho, a pirate's life for me.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:22
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Just to make my position clear, there is no acceptable scenario where 40 million free people are allowed to be subjugated by a tyrant.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:24
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KitConstantine posted:I mean the Russians did this just hours after Ukraine released that video I do wonder if an attack like this will have the same affect on world opinion like the showing so that Sarajevo marketplace.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:24
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KitConstantine posted:I mean the Russians did this just hours after Ukraine released that video No one in this thread has any control over US or NATO's decision on implementing a no fly zone over Ukraine so lets dial back the sanctimony a little bit. I am just an IK - Not removing the imbed since it's tagged and relevant as it was shown to congress in an attempt to sway their decision. Everyone else view at your own discretion.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:25
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Cimber posted:agreed. It sounds almost gratuitous. I don’t think it’s gratuitous, it’s not overly gory. It’s just, you know, kids being loaded in ambulances and dying in hospital and a woman being thrown in a mass grave. It’s journalistic in a way. Just, you know, war ain’t cool. In case anyone had doubts.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:26
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As rough as that video was to watch, I think it's an effective tool to show everyone how completely loving stupid war is. In one way or another, every war in history was born from a grift, and in this case Putin hasn't been able to decide on just one grift so he is throwing them all at the board to see which one sticks.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:31
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A.o.D. posted:Just to make my position clear, there is no acceptable scenario where 40 million free people are allowed to be subjugated by a tyrant.  Hekk posted:Everyone else view at your own discretion. also
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Mar 16, 2022 18:32
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Hekk posted:No one in this thread has any control over US or NATO's decision on implementing a no fly zone over Ukraine so lets dial back the sanctimony a little bit. Wasn't being sanctimonious, just stating a fact. And I know why the US can't do a no fly zone. But I think calling a video that merely showed the reality in Ukraine "gratuitous" was at a minimum crass. Apparently the US government agreed that more needed to be done regarding anti air since they're sending a shitload over now https://twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1504146824256532486?t=8ZJZhOztyYvhF_wWW899IA&s=19
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Mar 16, 2022 18:39
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With that many AA systems, it seems like an NFZ will be set up in a roundabout way
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Mar 16, 2022 18:44
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KitConstantine posted:Wasn't being sanctimonious, just stating a fact. And I know why the US can't do a no fly zone. But I think calling a video that merely showed the reality in Ukraine "gratuitous" was at a minimum crass. Probably means unnecessarily subjecting yourself to suffering and pain by watching it and isn't wrong according to the reactions from the thread.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:50
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I have a healed bullethole in my right calf, and scars from grenade shrapnel next to my spine to remind me that war is never cool. This is a goddamn nightmare like all wars, and Putin needs to be beaten like a dog, politically and physically. The political beating will probably hurt him worse judging by his apparent mindset. I really feel for the Russian conscripts that got thrown into this shithole by a loving sociopath to die horribly, but Ukraine is on the right side of history, and Putin's madness is not.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:51
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Fragrag posted:With that many AA systems, it seems like an NFZ will be set up in a roundabout way  Having trained NATO personnel do it would probably be more efficient, but you know, war.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:52
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lightpole posted:Probably means unnecessarily subjecting yourself to suffering and pain by watching it and isn't wrong according to the reactions from the thread. That's fair, no one should have to watch the video if they don't want to, especially people in this thread who've been through war. Same with any of the more graphic footage coming out. The video does serve a purpose though.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:53
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i mean maybe this is just my army brain talking here but is there no such thing as an illegal order where like "here lets drop bombs on refugees" you would be like uh gently caress you sir? i just cant picture a professional soldier being cool with deliberate civilian casualties
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Mar 16, 2022 18:55
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“Professional” is the problem with your assumption.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:56
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Fragrag posted:With that many AA systems, it seems like an NFZ will be set up in a roundabout way MANPADs are only effective up to ~10-15,000 feet depending on the system - the Russians would just start bombing from higher altitudes which means even more indiscriminate targeting and collateral damage. They dropped dumb bombs on Syrian targets from 30,000 feet from Backfires and Blackjacks. They really don't give a gently caress and it seems the only PGMs they're willing to expend are cruise missiles and TBMs, which they're likely running low on.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:56
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i guess i need to up my warcriming game or something because i just dont get it 
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Mar 16, 2022 18:57
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sneakyfrog posted:i mean maybe this is just my army brain talking here but is there no such thing as an illegal order where like "here lets drop bombs on refugees" you would be like uh gently caress you sir? Unfortunately this is a common tactic in Russia, so there's probably institutional motivation there to dehumanize those they are killing (a lot like the US and civilians killed in drone strikes) Terror bombings are a common Russian tactic, sadly. BIG HEADLINE posted:MANPADs are only effective up to ~10-15,000 feet depending on the system - the Russians would just start bombing from higher altitudes which means even more indiscriminate targeting and collateral damage. They just started getting more S-300s from other countries. Those can easily knock out high level aircraft from a significant distance.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:58
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CommieGIR posted:They just started getting more S-300s from other countries. Those can easily knock out high level aircraft from a significant distance. Sure, but I'd imagine they're really judicious about firing them or even radiating.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:59
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sneakyfrog posted:i mean maybe this is just my army brain talking here but is there no such thing as an illegal order where like "here lets drop bombs on refugees" you would be like uh gently caress you sir? Honest question: How low down the chain of command does information about what’s inside targeted buildings get propagated? Presumably someone knows, but is it the guy ultimately pushing the button? I’ve never been in any military, let alone the Russian one.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:00
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Whitehouse put out the full list just now: https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1504152530237992962?t=gnvxy0Pj3qv--uCynECjIQ&s=19 The second page is the spicy one  And the US already shipped over some S-300s apparently https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1504131606562357251?t=AC_TihwRxgxZeGV8Jsc5sg&s=19
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Mar 16, 2022 19:01
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Sure, but I'd imagine they're really judicious about firing them or even radiating. Sure, but Russia also hasn't been able to even get close to fully knocking out Ukrainian Anti-Air assets as it is, so I suspect it'll be a struggle to get these too.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:03
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BIG HEADLINE posted:MANPADs are only effective up to ~10-15,000 feet depending on the system - the Russians would just start bombing from higher altitudes which means even more indiscriminate targeting and collateral damage. Already mentioned in the post above, but they're explicitly providing longer range SAMs. raminasi posted:Honest question: How low down the chain of command does information about what’s inside targeted buildings get propagated? Presumably someone knows, but is it the guy ultimately pushing the button? I’ve never been in any military, let alone the Russian one. The US process has you including the target and disposition (under cover, in the open). This would be called into the fire direction center, which will coordinate fires. Beyond that I'm not sure what gets passed down to the actual dudes manning the guns other than the type of ammunition and the other information they need to actually get the rounds on target. psydude fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 19:03
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normally its left to the individual unit commanders discretion. in my limited experience its the squad leader who needs fire support on an occupied position calling for support or something like that... but some of the crap im seeing like ambulances being used to transport munitions, shelling civilian apartment blocks, dropping bombs on designated refugee shelters are all like super big giant no no warcrimey things that will get you tried in the Hague.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:04
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sneakyfrog posted:normally its left to the individual unit commanders discretion. in my limited experience its the squad leader who needs fire support on an occupied position calling for support or something like that... but some of the crap im seeing like ambulances being used to transport munitions, shelling civilian apartment blocks, dropping bombs on designated refugee shelters are all like super big giant no no warcrimey things that will get you tried in the Hague. Yeah, they also got caught tagging vehicles as Red Cross to try to get around Ukrainian forces.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:05
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I wonder how many red on red incidents there were, twitchy Russian conscripts accidentally firing on their own guys thinking they were Ukrainians who use the exact same loving equipment.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:06
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apparently not enough
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Mar 16, 2022 19:07
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<insert tweet of villagers attaching Ukrainian flags to abandoned Russian tanks>
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Mar 16, 2022 19:08
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https://twitter.com/russianembfinla/status/1504087251009081348?s=21 Just normal Russia posting and yes it’s real. Please report cases of violation of rights, discrimination and incitement of hatred against citizens of the Russian Federation and native speakers of the Russian language to the consular department of the embassy by e-mail consdepfin@yandex.ru That said they’re gonna get a ton of Goatse.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:13
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one of my IT managers is a Finn and one of the corporate managers asked him "hey have you ever visited st petersburg" since its like less than 100 miles from where he is at. his response was literally spitting on the floor during a zoom meeting and saying "only if i were invading" this was 6 months ago. they havent forgotten about the winter war one bit and this is a IT nerd here.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:17
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Marshal Prolapse posted:https://twitter.com/russianembfinla/status/1504087251009081348?s=21 Yankee called Me "Ivan." My name is Ivan, but it was the way he said it.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:20
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sneakyfrog posted:one of my IT managers is a Finn and one of the corporate managers asked him "hey have you ever visited st petersburg" since its like less than 100 miles from where he is at. Looking at the translated comments, and it’s all Finnish people posting, and they are all dunking on the Russians like they were Joel Embiid.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:27
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https://twitter.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1504161424267952136?t=LoK06X_nSYDOtQpNQGbPpg&s=19
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Mar 16, 2022 19:37
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lightpole posted:Probably means unnecessarily subjecting yourself to suffering and pain by watching it and isn't wrong according to the reactions from the thread. Any idea how fast they can get AA batteries in place?
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