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prom candy posted:I pretty much always do breath, mantra, or like body scan type meditations. I think that's definitely the cause of resistance because I can feel myself just screaming "noooo don't make me focus on one boring thing!" I was so all over the place yesterday I couldn't even play Elden Ring for more than about 30 minutes. Not even anxious or worried, just zipping around from this to that. Maybe I'm destroying my mind with TikTok. Thoughts are an interesting one. With other body sensations, it is very easy to realize that they are happening, and that there isn't much you can do about it. So you can reach a kind of equanimity that there is a sensation of the floor against your leg, or air going in and out the nose. Thoughts we take personally. They are my thoughts. They _are_ me! But just as your stomach secretes digestive juices in response to swallowing food, the brain secretes thoughts in response to some other stimulus. The more you think about your thoughts, the more thoughts you think. And we are taught to take our thoughts very seriously. Often times, the mental exercise of sticking a one word post-it note on a passing thought is enough to deprive the thought of any additional karma, and it will just fizzle out if you don't give it additional material to work with. The better you get at it, the more it becomes like watching an itch come and go in your leg. It becomes, "Here comes a thought about plans for tomorrow... There goes a thought about plans for tomorrow". As for what comes next? Another thought. There is always another thought that pops up in the mind. A lot of body scanning techniques are to build an ability to dispassionately observe, and then to turn that ability onto the mind itself. There is also meditation that "focuses on not being focused". Like shikantaza from the Zen traditions. They often start with breath watching to build concentration. But instead of using that concentration to grip harder onto an object of meditation, you concentrate on keeping your "hands" open to just let experience and sensation flow right past. It may also just be that you are over stimulating yourself with TikTok. In which case, use the insight you've gained to recognize that, and the concentration you've gained to put the phone down. If you want a more technical explanation into why you may have some kind of aversion to some aspect of meditation, look up dukkha nana or "knowledge of suffering". It is very natural to cycle though these sort of things. As you start a style of meditation, it holds your attention because it is kind of hard. Then it becomes easier and you get a sort of bliss of accomplishment. But the bliss is fleeting, and then you feel resentment and aversion. If you keep at it, you realize that this is the natural flow of life, and your reach equanimity. So you move through; "Let's do this." "I've got this!" "Not this again..." "This just is." And with that, you slowly but surely chisel away at the grip that suffering has on your mind.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:45
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prom candy posted:Do you guys ever have days where you're just so resistant to meditating? The past week or so I've been having trouble focusing at work, my mind is just darting around like crazy from distraction to distraction and it's like a wrestling match with myself every day to get myself to sit down and meditate for ten minutes. Bilirubin posted:I've only had one day that I just could NOT meditate in the past month and a half-two months of nearly daily practice. I just shrugged and noted it and for me it went away. Of course I'm still a tiny baby at this. For me, work stress contributed a lot to how much I could keep up a daily meditation practice. I was meditating regularly and started a new job, and the meditative practice helped me have more focus and equanimity at work. As the stress of the job increased, my practice suffered, and my focus and equanimity also suffered. Eventually it was too much, and I had to stop that job because I did not think I could do it anymore. One of the things I hear a lot from the Plum Village dharma teachers is the importance of building your sangha early, because it is much easier to practice with others rather than practicing alone. The practice here means both maintaining regular meditation and also the practice of transforming afflictions and less-than-wholesome habits. Of course, sangha-building is its own challenge. The teachers emphasize that the sangha does not have to be large or formal; it can be with your partner or close friend(s). It does not have to "look Buddhist" in form to be helpful. But it should be intentional that its members aspire to nurture the good seeds in one another as much as possible. I think of this place as an ad hoc sangha for when we need it to be, and I'd be down to do sitting meditation with anyone if we wanted to do that regularly in addition to the book club.
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Mar 15, 2022 19:56
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Thoughts are an interesting one. This is great stuff, thank you!
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Mar 15, 2022 20:31
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prom candy posted:My therapist actually recommended this for my health anxiety and it's super useful. Instead of running away from whatever symptom is driving me into a panic, I do a 2-3 minute meditation with the sensation as my object of focus. I also sometimes do this when I get headaches. Headaches aren't a source of anxiety for me but they are unpleasant. Turning towards them usually makes them much more tolerable. I've found this really useful too. One thing that used to be very distracting for me was getting itchy. I mean that kind of itch where it's like red-hot needles in your skin that's pretty much impossible to ignore. So I stopped trying to ignore it and focused on it instead. Suddenly instead of being annoying it was really interesting. I realised that the itch didn't actually stay in the same place, it moved around, sometimes quite far. I got a strong visual image of some kind of electric caterpillar. Instead of being a hindrance to concentration it became a really excellent object of focus. Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche talks about this often, that you can use pretty much anything to focus your awareness and that it's the awareness itself that's important.
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Mar 15, 2022 21:44
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for fucks sake posted:Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche talks about this often, that you can use pretty much anything to focus your awareness and that it's the awareness itself that's important. I really like what I've seen of his stuff, mainly because he suffered from panic attacks as a kid and uses that to inform his teaching quite a bit. I also think the stuff he's done with neuroscience is really interesting.
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Mar 15, 2022 21:53
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prom candy posted:I really like what I've seen of his stuff, mainly because he suffered from panic attacks as a kid and uses that to inform his teaching quite a bit. I also think the stuff he's done with neuroscience is really interesting. me three, his longish (1.5 hour) introduction to meditation was formative for me. And he's a hoot
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Mar 16, 2022 01:54
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Bilirubin posted:me three, his longish (1.5 hour) introduction to meditation was formative for me. And he's a hoot Is that on YouTube? I read his book last year and learned a lot
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Mar 16, 2022 05:26
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prom candy posted:Is that on YouTube? I read his book last year and learned a lot https://youtu.be/ukTaodQfYRQ e. was going to bed last night, posted from my phone. I think that was the one I had in mind. Bilirubin fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 06:27
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What is the relation or rather nonrelation between Karma and fortune? I know and love the story of the Chinese farmer and the horses, and that in the moment you cannot say if something is fortunate // unfortunate. But does positive Karma lead to more fortunate outcomes? It's kinda hard to word for me but my interpretation (lol I am still on the Buddhism tutorial level) is that Buddhist would not believe in luck or chance but rather that there is a reason for all actions? [Which has some powerful implications if we look at modern physics but that's not where I want to go right now]. Maybe I'm asking what role does Karma play in your day to day life events, not necessarily the generation of it, but the results of it? Let me set up a story. It was a wonderful day, unusually sunny and warm for this time of year. An individual decides to take a fun vehicle on a very fun road; it's the middle of nowhere, the middle of a weekday and there rarely cops seen on all ~hundreds of excursions made. During yesterdays romp a voice in their head was like "hey you've never taken pictures from that turnout back there before, you should check it out!" okay, the driver does. While admiring their attachment, guess what drives by, state patrol. Had the driver ignored the head voice they would likely be at the whims of the enforcement for how they were managing their vehicle. Rather than bask in good fortune the driver pondered the series of events. The atheist might say, "ah, pure chance, nothing to it" , the christian might say "a guardian angel told you to pull over at the overlook" , what should be the Buddhist response ? Would it be this exact post, examining the causes and effects? Would it be a lesson to tone down desires? Or is it just not something that makes sense to interpret in a Buddhist context? Thanks.
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Mar 16, 2022 20:30
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an action's producing "good karma" is definitionally "reducing suffering". it also involves good intent and all that. this is on the long term. it is not the case that your action's good karma will reduce _your_ suffering, reduce suffering locally, reduce your suffering locally, etc. knowing exactly what results from particular actions is something one gets when they become an arahant. this is to say that it is a supernatural power. given that, we can't be sure about our actions' consequences ("consequences" being another way to say "karma"), but as we get better at the practice we get better at knowing the results of our actions and (hopefully) doing the good-results thing none of this has anything to do with getting lucky on slots or cops pulling you over
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Mar 16, 2022 20:57
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Virgil Vox posted:The atheist might say, "ah, pure chance, nothing to it" , the christian might say "a guardian angel told you to pull over at the overlook" , what should be the Buddhist response ?
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Mar 16, 2022 21:59
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or mara is playing a trick! which one is it? WELL PULL UP A CHAIR FRIENDO
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Mar 16, 2022 22:03
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Virgil Vox posted:What is the relation or rather nonrelation between Karma and fortune? There is a very common folk interpretation of karma as a kind of external balance sheet, and that one can do things to balance things in a way that "good luck" will come their way. Many Buddhist scriptures and commentaries treat karma as more of an internal thing. So you have the doctrine of dependent origination that says everything is dependent on and conditioned by other things. Your karma manifests in how you act in a given situation. By cultivating "good karma", you are intentionally training yourself to act in a compassionate way, and this can create a feedback loop where you get more "good karma" as being compassionate becomes habitual. I like the Yogacara notion of the "store house consciousnesses", which is analogous to modern notions of the unconscious. Every action produces karma. The karma is a seed placed in your store house consciousness. Given the right conditions, like a real seed needs water and soil, the seed of karma sprouts and bears the fruit of another action. If you steal something and enjoy it, you plant the seed of stealing. Next time the conditions are right, like you see something left unattended, the seed of stealing sprouts and you steal again, planting another seed of stealing. So in a Buddhist country, a lay person my donate to a monk thinking they are buying some better outcome in the future. The monk may see that karma as the lay person taking a moment out of their day to be mindful about compassion and spreading the dharma. That good karma is not about expecting help from others, so much as cultivating the mindfulness to _be_ the help to others. quote:The atheist might say, "ah, pure chance, nothing to it" , the christian might say "a guardian angel told you to pull over at the overlook" , what should be the Buddhist response ? Many Buddhists around the world probably would not hesitate to attribute this to super natural intervention, with or without karma. There is no shortage of tales of monks getting super natural help. And sometimes the story goes that it was not so much the "good karma" of the monk, but because the deva or spirit was hoping to score karma points for themselves. quote:Would it be this exact post, examining the causes and effects? Would it be a lesson to tone down desires? That would be the "Right Mindfulness" way to interpret this situation. And that interpretation is also historically and doctrinally sound. The atheist view of dumb luck plants a seed of ignoring the situation. The theist view of guardian angels plants the seed of expecting help from others. The view of examining causes, effects, and desires plants the seed of mindfulness. That's 3 seeds of karma. Which do you want to cultivate?
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Mar 16, 2022 22:10
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Good karma leads to good results and circumstances, bad karma leads to bad results and circumstances. Karmic fruits can take a while to ripen, they may also ripen immediately: only a Buddha can tell you the karmic result of any action beyond good or bad. Karma is also ultimately samsaric and the goal of the Buddhist is to move past it. Newbies to Buddhism tend to get hung up on karma and when christians engage in apologetics against Buddhism I usually find karma to be their main line of attack (usually stating more advanced truths about karma in their efforts to disprove it lol.) Beings in fortunate circumstances often become deluded about the source of their fortune believing it to be the result of their ability, inherent superiority, hard work etc and then think that they may engage in unwholesome and negative actions freely with no consequences, Mara for example is a god and resides in the highest level of heaven. Despite undeniably possessing enormous levels of merit given his birth he has deluded himself to the point of being synonymous with evil. Many of the fortunate assholes and tyrants of the world have fallen into the same trap. Conversely those in hell having no opportunity to learn about the dharma no respite to train themselves to be patient and having constant and relentless negative stimulus applied to them, tend not to learn their lesson and in fact engage in negative karma further. This can be observed in our world as well, people who go to prison often come out of it more immoral and violent than when they went in being surrounded by criminals and inflicted with trauma constantly. It is for this reason that kshitigarbha resides in hell to assist in teaching these beings how to escape samsara or at least gain enough merit to gain a better rebirth, that amitabha created his pure land for those too overwhelmed by samsara to escape and Buddhists in the human world transfer their merit to the whole world so as to mitigate the effects of karmic spiraling. The human world is considered the most fortunate one in Buddhist thought not the realm of Asuras or gods as it is the one in which one is most aware of suffering to do something about its dangers without being overwhelmed by it.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:21
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Conversely those in hell having no opportunity to learn about the dharma no respite to train themselves to be patient and having constant and relentless negative stimulus applied to them... ...he says, while spreading the dharma at Something Awful Dot Com.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:39
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:...he says, while spreading the dharma at Something Awful Dot Com. Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha
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Mar 16, 2022 22:42
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Many Buddhists around the world probably would not hesitate to attribute this to super natural intervention, with or without karma. There is no shortage of tales of monks getting super natural help. And sometimes the story goes that it was not so much the "good karma" of the monk, but because the deva or spirit was hoping to score karma points for themselves. That does remind me of two versions of Anathapindika's story I've heard regarding him losing his wealth and getting it back. Anathapindika was a lay disciple of Gautama Buddha and a wealthy merchant. He was known for his generosity, donating both to the Buddha's monastic community as well as the poor in Anathapindika's community. One day, he loses his wealth due to a natural disaster, but he continues to be as generous as he can, and eventually his wealth is restored. I've heard it told in one version that a deva was responsible for the restoration of his wealth. In another version I heard from a Dharma talk given by Thich Nhat Hanh, it's Anathapindika's friends and neighbors who help him recoup his wealth because they had been moved by his generous nature. I think this was also in a Dharma talk given to a group of businesspeople, and Thay Nhat Hanh was trying to demonstrate that there can be material benefits to being generous, to teach businesspeople not to only think of their own profits first. So some things are a result of one's actions, and others less so. The flood that wiped out Anathapindika's wealth was not a result of his actions, but that the community rallied to support him afterwards was. My impression is that different schools and teachers are going to have different attitudes about superstition and Buddhism, and the emphasis may be different depending on the student the teacher is talking to, too. The section I just read in The Heart of The Buddha's Teachings was about shaping the message to the recipient. Like not including the character of the deva in the Anathapindika story when telling it to an audience of mostly Western businesspeople who are not likely going to be familiar with what devas are or would be helped by including a supernatural element to the story. In general, though, I think looking at events superstitiously is discouraged, since it promotes a wrong view about causal relationships.
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Mar 16, 2022 23:47
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Caufman posted:My impression is that different schools and teachers are going to have different attitudes about superstition and Buddhism, and the emphasis may be different depending on the student the teacher is talking to, too. The section I just read in The Heart of The Buddha's Teachings was about shaping the message to the recipient. . The early suttas are full of examples of "skillful means". I like the story of Ariya the fisherman. Buddha and his monks are walking along a river. Up ahead was a fisherman named Ariya, and he put down his pole and went to greet this group of holy men. While exchanging greeting, the Buddha noted "Your name is Ariya? That means 'Noble One'. What kind of Noble person kills fish?" And at that moment, Ariya became a convert. The moral of the story is... I hope you have the omniscience of a buddha before you go walking up to fishermen and start making fun of their name.
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Mar 17, 2022 00:49
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:I like the Yogacara notion of the "store house consciousnesses", which is analogous to modern notions of the unconscious. Every action produces karma. The karma is a seed placed in your store house consciousness. Given the right conditions, like a real seed needs water and soil, the seed of karma sprouts and bears the fruit of another action. If you steal something and enjoy it, you plant the seed of stealing. Next time the conditions are right, like you see something left unattended, the seed of stealing sprouts and you steal again, planting another seed of stealing. I like how in this seed example you can see how karma and even lovingkindess can come back multiplied compared to what was put in. Beowulfs_Ghost posted:The atheist view of dumb luck plants a seed of ignoring the situation.  Everything I learn about Buddhism, it Just Makes Sense, like it seems to fit perfectly into how I think the world should work Nessus posted:"Ah, good luck" or perhaps your preferred bodhisattva having extended lovingkindness over you. I'm familiar with the term Bodhisattva, but what is a "preferred" bodhisattva ? Are there notable Bodhisattva's I should start learning about?
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Mar 17, 2022 02:33
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Virgil Vox posted:I like how in this seed example you can see how karma and even lovingkindess can come back multiplied compared to what was put in. the four big ones are avalokitesvara boddhisatva of mercy, kshitigarbha boddhisatva of hell/protection, manjusri boddhisatva of wisdom, samantabhadra boddhisattva of practice and renunciation
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Mar 17, 2022 02:41
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha goddang another pro thread title
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Mar 17, 2022 03:03
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Virgil Vox posted:I'm familiar with the term Bodhisattva, but what is a "preferred" bodhisattva ? Are there notable Bodhisattva's I should start learning about? BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:the four big ones are avalokitesvara boddhisatva of mercy, kshitigarbha boddhisatva of hell/protection, manjusri boddhisatva of wisdom, samantabhadra boddhisattva of practice and renunciation As an example of where one may come cross such bodhisattvas, at the top of the list there with Avalokitesvara is the reference in the first line of the Heart Sutra. https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/
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Mar 17, 2022 07:47
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Virgil Vox posted:
Right?
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Mar 18, 2022 04:53
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I tried that using your thoughts as the object of focus meditation and whoa, I have a lot of thoughts! It's crazy how just labelling them or cataloguing them makes it really easy to just let them pass by.
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Mar 18, 2022 05:27
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Virgil Vox posted:I'm familiar with the term Bodhisattva, but what is a "preferred" bodhisattva ? Are there notable Bodhisattva's I should start learning about? There is also Amida Buddha (Amitabha) who is a buddha and not a bodhisattva. If you're curious, say "namu amida butsu" ten times with meaning and wait, and you'll find out more.
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Mar 18, 2022 06:41
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prom candy posted:I tried that using your thoughts as the object of focus meditation and whoa, I have a lot of thoughts! It's crazy how just labelling them or cataloguing them makes it really easy to just let them pass by. Keep up the practice. With enough practice you can get crazy fast at it. It may be months of daily practice, but you eventually transition from "noting" to merely "noticing", because you can get so quick that you won't have time to stop and think up a word to note with. This can also be the case if you do noting with body scanning. What makes this an insight practice rather than a focus or calming practice is that it gives you direct experience of Buddhist doctrine. The 3 marks of existence are (often translated) Impermanence, Suffering, and No-Self; Your thoughts are in constant flux. Sometimes they appear to have a logical or narrative progression, but they seem to spring from nowhere and then just trail off to nowhere. There is nothing really permanent about them. Buddhist Suffering is broader than just pain or sadness. It is a general unsatisfactoriness that drives craving and aversion. When it comes to watching thoughts, you will never craft a thought so perfect and beautiful that you will just retire from thinking. There is no peak to having the best idea, and also no bottom to how far you can beat yourself up for failing to have the best idea. And for No-Self... If "you" are busy labeling passing thoughts, like some quality control inspector watching parts pass by on an assembly line, then "who" is making the thoughts? The more engrossed in thought watching you get, the more apparent this becomes, and the more insight you gain into the source of this fast moving thought assembly line.
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Mar 18, 2022 17:18
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Bitch I just told you about kshitigarbha Thread title this immediately hot drat
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Mar 19, 2022 00:51
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Paramemetic posted:Thread title this immediately hot drat 
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Mar 19, 2022 01:01
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Paramemetic posted:Thread title this immediately hot drat
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Mar 19, 2022 07:02
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Finding 20 minutes just flies by now especially when sitting. Need to work on flexibility now
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Mar 19, 2022 23:26
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Nessus posted:Can you edit it directly or do we have to ping the mods Just report a post that references it with a note like "new thread title please." That's what happened here, so thanks to the reporter. Technically I'm not an A/T mod, just an IK, but I doubt Fromage gives a gently caress.
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Mar 20, 2022 18:00
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They might be a bit cheesed off. I've been having some breakthroughs with my mindfulness meditation thanks to tips from this thread about labelling thoughts with a single word. (Also, about putting enough cushioning under my rear end when sitting lotus style. I had been doing it on a yoga mat, which was NOT enough at all. My rear end feels much better.) I've been desiring stillness and clear-headedness between raising children and working on music, and last night I was able to attain a full half hour while my 1yo slept. I feel less despair today than I usually do, so I think I'm on a good track, and for me meditation has been a struggle so I'm pleased by these results.
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Mar 20, 2022 18:21
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I have yet to attempt a session longer than ten minutes. I am pretty much always itching to be done by the time the timer goes off. Very occasionally the time will be up before I expected it to be but that doesn't happen often.
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Mar 21, 2022 05:08
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Treat the "itching to be done" feeling like a cryptid that had just wandered into a clearing without it noticing you watching from a hidden vantage point. now every time you get to that point in your meditation it is an opportunity to notice characteristics and behaviors of your own personal Bigfoot. What does it do? What does it need? What does it look like? What are its intentions? How does it behave?
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Mar 21, 2022 05:28
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ram dass in hell posted:Treat the "itching to be done" feeling like a cryptid that had just wandered into a clearing without it noticing you watching from a hidden vantage point. now every time you get to that point in your meditation it is an opportunity to notice characteristics and behaviors of your own personal Bigfoot. What does it do? What does it need? What does it look like? What are its intentions? How does it behave? That is a fun way of thinking about how to handle this. The questions are important too, as the thought of being bored or wanting to do something else doesn't just spring from the void sustained by its own essence. Like everything else, it is dependent on causes and conditions. It has the 3 marks of existence. The thought of getting up wasn't always there. And it will eventually pass. Although it my comeback almost immediately. It doesn't have inherent existence. It is composed of parts, and came to be in your head by some cause. It has some quality of suffering or dissatisfaction, and giving in to it won't really cause an end to suffering or dissatisfaction. The irony is that you feel dissatisfied while meditating, then feel dissatisfied because you think you could have meditated more. For those new to insight (vipassana) meditation, it is often used with calming/focusing (samatha) mediation, like alternating rungs on a ladder. So feel free to switch back and forth as needed. A lot of guided meditations follow this cycle, of calming and focusing for the first half, then more open awareness and examination for the second half. So if you can only handle one style of meditation for 10 minutes, set 2 timers. Do breath counting or a mantra for 10 minutes, then body scanning and noting for the next 10 minutes.
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Mar 21, 2022 06:55
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Bilirubin posted:https://youtu.be/ukTaodQfYRQ oh yes I started watching this one night, glad to have come across it again.
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Mar 21, 2022 09:46
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Mar 21, 2022 09:56
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Just read chapter 10 of The Heart of Buddha's Teaching. We're getting into the meat of the Noble 8 Fold Path now. I really like just how practical and accessible his presentation is. In this one, on Right Thinking, he makes a strong argument also for how it springs from Right View and leads into Right Action. This makes the wheel metaphor really speak to me, as everything constantly moves with everything else. This was also a part of the previous sections on the 4 Noble Truths and the 3 Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma. He breaks everything down into these little smaller steps but its all part of one overarching dynamic process of thought and awareness.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:24
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prom candy posted:I have yet to attempt a session longer than ten minutes. I am pretty much always itching to be done by the time the timer goes off. Very occasionally the time will be up before I expected it to be but that doesn't happen often. I'm usually very brief in my sessions. I definitely get the urge to pick up my phone but I was actively attempting to see how long I could set aside that urge because I kept reading all sorts of horrible bullshit. I wanted to focus on length and was appreciative of the fact that the pervasive silence of the moment facilitated. I spent a good part of that meditation focusing on the love and mutual support represented in family, in sitting watch over a sleeping innocent who came into the world to suffer and rejoice along with us. I've wrestled with some of the strongest and most painful emotions of my life since becoming a parent, and finding a way to detach while experiencing them has been an incredible balancing act. After the birth of my second child rumination and worry took a front seat in my mind, around the time I first started reading this thread. So uh tldr life challenging, meditation good
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Mar 21, 2022 14:36
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Brawnfire posted:I'm usually very brief in my sessions. I definitely get the urge to pick up my phone but I was actively attempting to see how long I could set aside that urge because I kept reading all sorts of horrible bullshit. I wanted to focus on length and was appreciative of the fact that the pervasive silence of the moment facilitated. One suggestion is to try are the guided medications on the Plum Village app. They way the monks formulate a lot of the approaches are different takes on what you are already doing and helps add variety when doing silent meditations as well. Also having an intermittent bell also helps provide a focus to return to the moment (and is just nice to listen to). I'm still mostly just watching breath and occasional body scans but then will deepen from basic breath watching to body calming and joy at just being there, sitting. I really look forward to the sessions now and am considering taking the drastic step (not being a morning person) of getting up half an hour early each day for a morning sit to start the day.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:06
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