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kazil posted:I don't read comics anymore, how are Kamala and Kate similar? They were very young when all of the sudden superheroes with powers or not were a thing that existed. They are fangirls of a particular hero and want to be like them, their childhood and/or adolescence are defined by reverence for those particular heroes, and they then become heroes themselves.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:09
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Kate is a privileged, rich white young adult. Kamala is a middle class, teenage Pakistani American Muslim. So yeah they might both be fans of heroes and want to be like them, but Kamala is going to have a lot of adversity that Kate didn't have.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:13
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Kate is like a “fan” of Hawkeye but she’s not a fan girl about everything superhero like Kamala. Kamala is much more representative of the new generation of fans who know all the trivia about their faves and love to post online about it and then is thrust into the world herself. Kate’s background is a bit more typical for Marvel.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:19
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Kate also seems less specifically a fan of Hawkeye and more "oh that's a cool job, I should totally be a bow and arrow superhero"
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Mar 16, 2022 16:48
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There are some really angry people on Reddit regarding Kamalas MCU powers from that short-rear end teaser video. Who knew the fandom would give this much of a poo poo about a Muslim comic book character. Which means, obviously, this poo poo is gonna be good.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:56
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Kate could blow up a bank to save a cat from getting hit by a fire truck and she’d go viral on Twitter for epic heroism, Kamala would knock a police cruiser over to stop it from clipping a baby stroller and the city would send her the medical bills for the cops. I think there’s not body stretching because Kamala is very obviously being pitched as the first body-positive Avenger where she doesn’t already look like she’s had a personal trainer for her entire life. If she were a 16-17 year old girl who could change her body to look anyway she wanted, that would largely distort their ability to tell stories that might resonate more with the kind of pressures that young women today face (due to social pressures//social media). Like, I guess maybe they could go with “yeah I could look like a Kim Kardashian, but I’m perfect the way I am!” but then you’d just lose like half your audience who wouldn’t relate to that and would absolutely choose the easy way out (myself included). She works better as a stand-in for teens if she’s not a Mr. Fantastic style body morphing shapeshifter. That said, I’m always really bummed out when a super hero’s powers come from a specific magical object. That poo poo sucks and makes the powers feel cheap. Marvel even had one of its major characters entire development cycle be exactly about how putting all your faith in magic items is bad! The trailers looked really enjoyable but also they are shot EXACTLY like 50/50 split between Disney tween girl shows and Marvel a toon shows, to the point that it feels like two distinct teams working on the project. I do not think the superhero stuff is the same tone or vibe as the teen stuff at all.
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Mar 16, 2022 16:58
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I’d wager that the bracelet is a slight red herring, I doubt she is going to be 100% normal human and who knows if it just gives everybody who slaps it on the same powers.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:18
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Yeah, the actual appearance of Kamala is important. She visibly looks average and behaves like a dorky cosplayer. I love Kate Bishop but she’s basically a sculpted acrobat like most other heroes. Based on this trailer, Kamala Khan seems to be a legit normal person falling into this.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:20
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enki42 posted:Kate also seems less specifically a fan of Hawkeye and more "oh that's a cool job, I should totally be a bow and arrow superhero" From the series I very much thought that Kate was specifically a fan of Hawkeye. For saving her life as a child, and for being the aspirational figure on the Avengers for "normal" humans.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:26
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Bust Rodd posted:I think there’s not body stretching because Kamala is very obviously being pitched as the first body-positive Avenger where she doesn’t already look like she’s had a personal trainer for her entire life. If she were a 16-17 year old girl who could change her body to look anyway she wanted, that would largely distort their ability to tell stories that might resonate more with the kind of pressures that young women today face (due to social pressures//social media). Like, I guess maybe they could go with “yeah I could look like a Kim Kardashian, but I’m perfect the way I am!” but then you’d just lose like half your audience who wouldn’t relate to that and would absolutely choose the easy way out (myself included). She works better as a stand-in for teens if she’s not a Mr. Fantastic style body morphing shapeshifter. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that Kamala's body morphing powers were explicitly tied to body-positivity arguments, rather than acted to circumvent them?
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Mar 16, 2022 17:33
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Ror posted:I’d wager that the bracelet is a slight red herring, I doubt she is going to be 100% normal human and who knows if it just gives everybody who slaps it on the same powers. Yeah, this was my feeling as well. The bracelet is something she's digging out of a trunk in her attic or something, so surely her family would have some knowledge of it in that case; where it seems like this is something outside her parents or families knowledge. Plus, it comes off in the trailer like there's some incident that gives her powers that she's hiding from her father. I kind of assume the bracelet is more of an aesthetic and sentimental anchor for her as a hero, to root her in her heritage as well as her love of heroes, rather than being what gives her actual power.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:36
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Open Source Idiom posted:Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that Kamala's body morphing powers were explicitly tied to body-positivity arguments, rather than acted to circumvent them? Yeah the literal first thing that happens to Kamala after gaining her powers is she morphs into Captain Marvel. During the first three issues she changes into Carol as she wrangles with understanding her abilities and ultimately landing on what her costume and identity (as a hero is). At first it was involuntary but then she kept doing it because it’s what she thought everyone wanted. It wasn’t until Bruno knocks some sense that she sees her self-worth, comes up with her costume, and keeps her look intact.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:39
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AngryBooch posted:From the series I very much thought that Kate was specifically a fan of Hawkeye. For saving her life as a child, and for being the aspirational figure on the Avengers for "normal" humans. You are correct, that is indeed what the text of the show pretty clearly states in the first episode.
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Mar 16, 2022 17:39
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Yeah the literal first thing that happens to Kamala after gaining her powers is she morphs into Captain Marvel. During the first three issues she changes into Carol as she wrangles with understanding her abilities and ultimately landing on what her costume and identity (as a hero is). At first it was involuntary but then she kept doing it because it’s what she thought everyone wanted. It wasn’t until Bruno knocks some sense that she sees her self-worth, comes up with her costume, and keeps her look intact. Yea that whole thing was a great way to communicate a major theme of the comic. I think the show will do that too because she's a bit heavy and having her just accept that as is works for the body positivity part of the character. \ I hope that her brother isn't changed too much, GWW said that he was based on a character thats on many Arab sitcoms, the overly religious family member who's actaully a comedic character. Also i hope they keep his partner who is a African Muslim. Positive portrayal of Muslims on a major tv project, who would of thought it? A South Asian person I know was a bit upset that all the South Asian people in the show are very fair, and i'm not really qualified outside of having South Asian friends and living in Toronto for a better part of my life, but it seemed what I had seen? I know Indian is a massive county with multiple ethnic groups, and northern indian people do tend to be more fair skinned than people in the south.
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Mar 16, 2022 18:37
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Bust Rodd posted:I think there’s not body stretching because Kamala is very obviously being pitched as the first body-positive Avenger where she doesn’t already look like she’s had a personal trainer for her entire life. If she were a 16-17 year old girl who could change her body to look anyway she wanted, that would largely distort their ability to tell stories that might resonate more with the kind of pressures that young women today face (due to social pressures//social media). Like, I guess maybe they could go with “yeah I could look like a Kim Kardashian, but I’m perfect the way I am!” but then you’d just lose like half your audience who wouldn’t relate to that and would absolutely choose the easy way out (myself included). She works better as a stand-in for teens if she’s not a Mr. Fantastic style body morphing shapeshifter. This is a good and interesting take. I understand and respect those who feel the comics were trying to make it be part of the whole teen body changes thing, but in a short TV series I can see how that's going to be more difficult to get across in a snappy way than just going with "happy with the shape I am" without trying to change it. I'm reminded of how it's hard to think of Peter Parker being called "puny Parker" when he's suddenly ripped as hell, and in the movies visibly ripped as hell. Yet, with Tom Holland in particular, they still get across that he's just an awkward nerdy teenager. Bust Rodd posted:That said, I’m always really bummed out when a super hero’s powers come from a specific magical object. That poo poo sucks and makes the powers feel cheap. Marvel even had one of its major characters entire development cycle be exactly about how putting all your faith in magic items is bad! I'll wait to see how it's handled, but I'm struggling to think offhand of an MCU hero who got powers from a magic item. Lots of infinity stones related ones, but I don't think that counts. Strange had to learn his magic, Thor was always just Thor rather than being the god of hammers, and most of the rest either use tech or got powers via tech. (Are we counting Shang-Chi's rings as magic or tech? I want to say tech based upon the end credits scene.) Feels like at this point magic object origin is almost a fresh novelty. Again, depending upon how it's handled. Still better than the comic origin, which is just Kamala wishing she had powers, then there's a terrigan mist and suddenly she has powers. Her figuring out her powers and coming to terms with what it means is fantastic, but the origin itself was... I dunno, I'm struggling to see finding a magic bangle as a downgrade.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:54
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Parkingtigers posted:I'll wait to see how it's handled, but I'm struggling to think offhand of an MCU hero who got powers from a magic item. Lots of infinity stones related ones, but I don't think that counts. Strange had to learn his magic, Thor was always just Thor rather than being the god of hammers, and most of the rest either use tech or got powers via tech. (Are we counting Shang-Chi's rings as magic or tech? I want to say tech based upon the end credits scene.) Feels like at this point magic object origin is almost a fresh novelty. Again, depending upon how it's handled. The infinity stones and MCU "tech" are all basically magic
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Mar 16, 2022 19:58
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Infinity Stones not counting as magic is certainly a...way to look at it
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Mar 16, 2022 20:00
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Nail Rat posted:Infinity Stones not counting as magic is certainly a...way to look at it Ha, I get that. I just see them as just cosmic level natural forces, like gravity or black holes. If we get too deep into it, all the tech is just magic, and all the magic is just tech, and we're back to Phase 1 MCU Asgardians being fancy space aliens with machines rather than actual gods with magic. I don't really mind either way, I'm just cool with the idea that we have cosmic/tech/magic as three separate paths to superhero status for variety. Where the lines between them are doesn't really matter, I'm a simple man just happy to see people in spandex thumping each other.
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Mar 16, 2022 20:39
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Shang-Chi’s rings are the source of his powers. Without his rings he’s just a martial artist. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s the part that makes we wonder… “why Shang Chi? Why not his sister, who has the same skills and the same backstory and the same family drama? Why isn’t she good enough? Did the rings PICK him over her? Because her heart isn’t pure?” I watched movie in December so if that’s made clear I’ve forgotten, but I don’t think the movie ever even addresses it. Like Tony is still a mega genius without his suit, we see in What Ifs that he is capable even when not an Avenger. I grew up with normal Thor, not MCU Thor, and that Thor spends like half the drat series looking for his hammer, so I really was bored of that plot convention before the movies even started. So yeah, I would prefer it it were something like the power is Kamala’s but the bracelets help focus/control it. It’s the idea that you could hand the specific item/weapon to anyone off the street and they’d be given the same power set that rubs me the wrong way. Black Panther really pulled this issue into a stark focus between the suit and the roots, and I had a really hard time with Ned just instantly developing wizard powers literally the exact moment he puts on a magic ring, when it takes THE SORCERER loving SUPREME months/years to get it right!
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Mar 16, 2022 20:49
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chitoryu12 posted:Yeah, the actual appearance of Kamala is important. She visibly looks average and behaves like a dorky cosplayer. I love Kate Bishop but she’s basically a sculpted acrobat like most other heroes. Based on this trailer, Kamala Khan seems to be a legit normal person falling into this. That all said, I admit that I'd kind of Flove it if Kate and Yelena scooped Kamala up for some kind of super-hero girls' night. And after the fun/mayhem Jennifer Walters has to help them avoid jail.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:01
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Parkingtigers posted:I'll wait to see how it's handled, but I'm struggling to think offhand of an MCU hero who got powers from a magic item. Lots of infinity stones related ones, but I don't think that counts. Strange had to learn his magic, Thor was always just Thor rather than being the god of hammers, and most of the rest either use tech or got powers via tech. (Are we counting Shang-Chi's rings as magic or tech? I want to say tech based upon the end credits scene.) Feels like at this point magic object origin is almost a fresh novelty. Again, depending upon how it's handled. Magic is just tech we don't understand yet
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Mar 16, 2022 21:18
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The problem with “magic object” is that the plot is already written out A) object grants powers B) hero loses object and powers C) discovers she doesn’t NEED object, she has the heart/soul of a hero, which is what REALLY counts D) EXCEPT she gets back magic object anyway because final fight scene needs to happen and that entire plotline just undercuts itself from the jump UNLESS you swerve the climax is the hero saying “ya know, I don’t actually need my powers because I’m the real hero!” and throwing the magic item away, at which point… you don’t have a character anymore. This is all easily circumnavigated by the magic object working as a foci or tuner for the powers instead of their source. It’s a minor difference but with massive implications for storytelling.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:24
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Bust Rodd posted:Shang-Chi’s rings are the source of his powers. Without his rings he’s just a martial artist. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s the part that makes we wonder… “why Shang Chi? Why not his sister, who has the same skills and the same backstory and the same family drama? Why isn’t she good enough? Did the rings PICK him over her? Because her heart isn’t pure?” I watched movie in December so if that’s made clear I’ve forgotten, but I don’t think the movie ever even addresses it. I haven't seen the movie since it aired, but I thought the point was that (a) he was such a good martial artist that he was basically superhuman even without the rings, and (b) that while his sister was a great martial artist too, and could even beat his rear end at times, that she had trained in different martial arts to those of her parents, because her father refused to train her? My memory is that he's the better martial artist between the two, even if he loses in their one fight at the arena. I can't remember if that was because he was unwilling to fight against her properly, because of circumstances in the arena specifically or because of stuff he picked up later from his aunt or what. The rings make him capable of energy attacks and poo poo, but he appears to be superhumanely fast, strong and/or durable even without the rings. The most explicit bit of which I can remember being the trailer shot of him hitting the training post, and his movement appearing to blur his arms as he hits it because he's moving so fast and hitting it so much repeatedly. There's probably more in the actual film itself that makes him look superhuman, but I don't really remember any of the action all that well honestly. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 21:36
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tsob posted:I haven't seen the movie since it aired, but I thought the point was that (a) he was such a good martial artist that he was basically superhuman even without the rings, and (b) that while his sister was a great martial artist too, and could even beat his rear end at times, that she had trained in different martial arts to those of her parents, because her father refused to train her? My memory is that he's the better martial artist between the two, even if he loses in their one fight at the arena. I can't remember if that was because he was unwilling to fight against her properly, because of circumstances in the arena specifically or because of stuff he picked up later from his aunt or what. He gets that from his mother who’s from a line of essentially spirit monks guarding the gate where the evil dragon was buried. Remember his dad fell in love with the mom when she effortlessly beat him (and his ring) while trying to gain access to the hidden city. So yes he’s good at martial arts but definitely has a bit more mojo in him from his mom’s side.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:45
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This was a long time ago and cameras are better now but Bruce Li did literally have slow down his striking speed for his movies because his punches were just a blur across his opponent's faces. A human being punching so fast that it appears blurry isn't superhuman or even meta-human, its just training. Maybe its open for interpretation but the impression I got from the film is that she is indisputably a better martial artist both because she wanted it more as a child and because Shang-Chi hasnt been living as an assassin ninja in LA for the last decade, while she has presumably literally never stopped training.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:52
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Bust Rodd posted:This was a long time ago and cameras are better now but Bruce Li did literally have slow down his striking speed for his movies because his punches were just a blur across his opponent's faces. A human being punching so fast that it appears blurry isn't superhuman or even meta-human, its just training. I honestly don't it matters whether that'd even be true with modern cameras, because "he's moving so fast it's a blur" is cinematic shorthand for "he's superhuman" regardless of reality; especially a reality where most people cannot do that, and don't even know that such a thing is possible.
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Mar 16, 2022 21:54
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tsob posted:I honestly don't it matters whether that'd even be true with modern cameras, because "he's moving so fast it's a blur" is cinematic shorthand for "he's superhuman" regardless of reality; especially a reality where most people cannot do that, and don't even know that such a thing is possible. People watch sports every single day, completely normal human beings move very fast all the time. Everyone knows that its possible.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:04
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I saw the trailer and realized that Kamala's name is pronounced differently from VP Harris's name, and thought of a simple mnemonic for people who get easily tripped up with names like me: Miss MARvel - Ka MA la SENator or (vice) PRESident - KA ma la
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Mar 16, 2022 22:06
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Bust Rodd posted:This was a long time ago and cameras are better now but Bruce Li did literally have slow down his striking speed for his movies because his punches were just a blur across his opponent's faces. A human being punching so fast that it appears blurry isn't superhuman or even meta-human, its just training. Bruce Lee was fast, but he had to slow down because of the camera speeds, not because he was superhuman.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:07
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Bust Rodd posted:People watch sports every single day, completely normal human beings move very fast all the time. Everyone knows that its possible. I've never watched, or even heard of, any sport where competitors regularly move so fast they actually blur on camera. Lee's speed was pretty singular even in martial arts, so far as I'm aware. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 22:09
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tsob posted:I've never watched, or even heard of, any sport where competitors regularly move so fast they actually blur on camera. Lee's speed was pretty singular even in martial arts, so far as I'm aware. Boxing. EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCk2RnPX_3g&t=248s this is the Olympics, i have timestamped the hundred meter dash. kazil posted:Bruce Lee was fast, but he had to slow down because of the camera speeds, not because he was superhuman. Yes, that is indeed the point I am trying to make. Regular non-superhuman people can routinely move quickly enough to blur to the human eye. Not "Faster than the eye can see" like superman, just normal athletes and martial artists with very fast limbs. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 16, 2022 |
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Mar 16, 2022 22:15
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Bust Rodd posted:I had a really hard time with Ned just instantly developing wizard powers literally the exact moment he puts on a magic ring, when it takes THE SORCERER loving SUPREME months/years to get it right! Steven struggled to have faith in the magic. Ned already knew magic was real, and then wished with all his heart to see Peter.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:15
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tsob posted:I've never watched, or even heard of, any sport where competitors regularly move so fast they actually blur on camera. Sports aren't filmed at 24fps as a rule
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Mar 16, 2022 22:18
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Also in the trailer it does seem like her body morphs, but it's covered with the purple energy. That's probably a good way to make it look better for film, and also allow some expansion of her power set like with the shield to better fit her in with the MCU.
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Mar 16, 2022 22:27
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The Netflix Marvel shows and Agents of Shield are now on US Disney+. Buncha warnings about there being TVMA content now
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Mar 16, 2022 22:41
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kazil posted:The Netflix Marvel shows and Agents of Shield are now on US Disney+. Buncha warnings about there being TVMA content now Disney + Mexico doesn't.  And they are already gone from Netflix. Well, we already had Agents of Shield, but still.
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Mar 17, 2022 05:22
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kazil posted:The Netflix Marvel shows and Agents of Shield are now on US Disney+. Buncha warnings about there being TVMA content now The first season of daredevil is so drat good.
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Mar 17, 2022 05:27
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I'm going to speculate about the bands a bit, just based on stuff in the trailers and general marvel knowage. The braclet is some kind of ancient magic tech that someone in what is now India found ages ago. It has been in Kamala's family for generations but no one knew what it was or how it worked, but they could tell it was something. T Eventually science became advanced enough to actually look into what it was and what it did. Probably around WW2. Kamala's ancestor that lived during the British Raj and independence and eventually Partition (almost certainly we see a flashback taking place then) was a scientist, and probably a very smart one and they fled India into what is now Pakistan with the bands. They investigated it more, and who is probably Kamala's grandparent continued to study it. When the Khans moved to the US from Pakistan, they took their parents old lab stuff with them but because her parents did not persue scientific careers or education it just sat in the attic forgotten until Kamala finds it. And yea I hope its one of those artifacts that just unlocks someones power and not the source of it. Don't need a "oh no Kamala dropped her band in a big vat of chocolate and now she's powerless!" part of the show.
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Mar 17, 2022 06:15
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Oh my gosh in all the excitement of Daredevil coming back I forgot about Iron Fist! Secretly hoping a whole new generation experiences it and gets mad on Twitter about it all over again!
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Mar 17, 2022 14:34
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Iron Fist was bad but I still want a Colleen/Misty team up show, the ending of season 2 was such a tease
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Mar 17, 2022 16:17
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