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The robot is really big though
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Mar 9, 2022 15:32
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Psycho Landlord posted:The robot is really big though The bigger the robot, the less screentime it needs for the show to qualify as a mecha series. That's just math.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:33
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Gripweed posted:The bigger the robot, the less screentime it needs for the show to qualify as a mecha series. That's just math. The gundam per pixel ratio theory.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:37
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https://twitter.com/PracticalMecha/status/1501579229779083264?s=20&t=EDrpyGr7wKjppt-Cd0hqmg
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Mar 9, 2022 16:44
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So, in the time before Kyoukai Senki returns to give me mecha mediocrity on a weekly basis, I've been diving into the archives a bit. New Story of Aura Battler Dunbine is a pretty light watch, and not in a good way. The characters never feel developed or distinct as people, and the plot is "bad guys attack, kidnap the princess a couple times, the protagonist stops them", with the only vaguely interesting bit being that Shot Weapon was an immortal ghoul setting up everything. It's much less interesting than its version in Super Robot Wars, and the fights are dull... but at least the aesthetic is great. Explains why people remember it enough to show in SRW T. Meanwhile, Ehrgeiz is almost forgotten for good reason. It opens with a lengthy wall of text about people we don't have any reason to care about, cuts to a woman practicing at a firing range, and intercuts with a robot blowing up a ship. Then we see a military base get attacked, have a lot of talking about people hunting down S, psychic powers get used, and then, at nineteen minutes in, we meet our probable protagonists (at least, they're the ones in the OP), who are doing some crap completely unrelated to anything we saw earlier. It's ugly, it's poorly structured, there's no reason to care about anyone in the cast, and the mechs are generic. I've seen worse, but the structural weakness here is outright confusing. Most shows at least realize that you should get to your protagonist relatively quickly so the audience can get attached. Here, there's no hook.
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Mar 12, 2022 11:46
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chiasaur11 posted:Meanwhile, Ehrgeiz is almost forgotten for good reason. God Bless The Ring
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Mar 12, 2022 19:23
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chiasaur11 posted:New Story of Aura Battler Dunbine is a pretty light watch, and not in a good way. The characters never feel developed or distinct as people, and the plot is "bad guys attack, kidnap the princess a couple times, the protagonist stops them", with the only vaguely interesting bit being that Shot Weapon was an immortal ghoul setting up everything. It's much less interesting than its version in Super Robot Wars, and the fights are dull... but at least the aesthetic is great. Explains why people remember it enough to show in SRW T. My favorite observation about New Dunbine is that despite how fancy and pretty it is, the Sirbine has never been a better unit in Super Robot Wars than the Bilbine. In 4 it was a midpoint between the Dunbine and Bilbine and existed to give Shou an early leg up if you found it, in BX it didn't have a Combination Attack in a game where they were everywhere and superstrong whereas the Bilbine had 2, in X it was outclassed in terms of power by the Bilbine's Aura Shoot and Custom Bonus, and then in T where they finally did the storyline it originated from the Sirbine was worse than the Bilbine out the gate, Shion was just a slightly worse Sho, and oh also Sho got the Bellvine which outstripped the Sirbine completely and was also very pretty. RIP Shion Zaba, he really can't catch a break.
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Mar 12, 2022 19:55
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Are there any mech series that go for more of the hard military style mecha that you see in Armored Core or Front Mission? I know Patlabor occasionally shows military labors that fit the bill but I've seen Patlabor.
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Mar 12, 2022 20:03
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Arc Hammer posted:Are there any mech series that go for more of the hard military style mecha that you see in Armored Core or Front Mission? I know Patlabor occasionally shows military labors that fit the bill but I've seen Patlabor. Flag and VOTOMs might scratch that itch, if you haven't seen them.
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Mar 12, 2022 20:05
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Full Metal Panic does for the grunts but the heroes are very definitely super powered.
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Mar 12, 2022 20:06
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Gasaraki *starts* that way...
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Mar 12, 2022 20:07
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Definitely give Eighty Six a try.
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Mar 12, 2022 20:12
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I've done Votoms but I bounced off of Flag really quick. Garasaki is the other one by the Votoms guy, right? I think I might have seen a clip where a bunch of mecha strip down an Abrams tank. I wonder if it's a matter of animating them. Mecha that are more humanoid might be easier to animate as opposed to something like a Metal Gear because you're just adapting the same rules you apply to character animation.
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Mar 12, 2022 20:14
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Arc Hammer posted:I've done Votoms but I bounced off of Flag really quick. Garasaki is the other one by the Votoms guy, right? I think I might have seen a clip where a bunch of mecha strip down an Abrams tank. That's part of it. It was only post-Gundam you really started to see specialized mech animation rather than blockier superheroes. Kyoukai Senki is sort of doing that bit, with a lot of little engineering touches so the machines feel like machines rather than upscaled people, but sadly, it also sucks. A lot. I'm not sure it's the worst mech anime of last year, since it was a competitive field (between it, Megaton Musashi, Sakugan, Back Arrow, and Ancient Girls Frame, we were not in short supply for bad mecha anime.) but it was a pretty solid example if you need proof that mech anime can suck without going in for psychics and superpowers.
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Mar 16, 2022 07:42
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Despite Gasaraki having a lot of super natural elements, I feel the military mecha stuff is some of the most realistic stuff you can get. I like how a whole team is supporting the pilots and how the tactical armors are stressful on the pilots. I liked the show, but it's one hell of a slow burn and the main character isn't really likable.
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Mar 16, 2022 12:36
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Autodrop Monteur posted:Despite Gasaraki having a lot of super natural elements, I feel the military mecha stuff is some of the most realistic stuff you can get. I like how a whole team is supporting the pilots and how the tactical armors are stressful on the pilots. Yes, Gasaraki does deserve credit for a relatively plausible depiction of how mecha could operate as part of a modern military organization in the age of televised warfare. I also recall some of the episodes could feel slow and cumbersome at times, when the script gave way more room than expected to all the behind-the-scenes maneuvering and discussions of the economic stakes. Now, that's not necessarily a problem: for example, a series like Legend of the Galactic Heroes could pull that off because it had a very dynamic and appealing cast of characters to keep the audience invested, whereas in Gasaraki the nominal protagonist's personality isn't very charming and his perspective is often limited to that of a mere observer in the midst of all these political power games between generally awful people. In other words, the actual robot action often came across like a sideshow. chiasaur11 posted:Kyoukai Senki is sort of doing that bit, with a lot of little engineering touches so the machines feel like machines rather than upscaled people, but sadly, it also sucks. A lot. Back Arrow was a good show, you just didn't like it.  I know that ship has already sailed, so to speak, but you can still find folks who enjoyed it other than just crazy old me. I don't see Kyoukai Senki getting even that much.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:12
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Back Arrow was pretty good. Certainly much better than everything else in that list.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:28
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wielder posted:I know that ship has already sailed, so to speak, but you can still find folks who enjoyed it other than just crazy old me. I don't see Kyoukai Senki getting even that much. I had a lot of fun with the dumb mess that was Back Arrow as well. As for Kyoukai Senki, it's worth remembering it exists mostly to give a new stable of animators on the job training for traditionally animated giant robot action, and by that metric I'd say it's a smashing success. It being a show worth a drat was always of secondary concern.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:34
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Megaton Musashi was at least charmingly enthusiastic in how hard it committed to its various questionable aesthetic and storytelling decisions. It felt like a product born of love.
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Mar 16, 2022 19:48
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Blue Gender does the same style of "Modern Military mech" The problem is that it's a late 90's/early 2000's anime with environmentalist themes, which invariably means that the Modern Military mecha are just a sidepoint to Ecofascism.
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Mar 17, 2022 04:32
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Fivemarks posted:Blue Gender does the same style of "Modern Military mech" Well that and that it is way too edgy for it's own good, which results in it being a miserable mess to watch
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Mar 17, 2022 05:14
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Omnicrom posted:I had a lot of fun with the dumb mess that was Back Arrow as well. As for Kyoukai Senki, it's worth remembering it exists mostly to give a new stable of animators on the job training for traditionally animated giant robot action, and by that metric I'd say it's a smashing success. It being a show worth a drat was always of secondary concern. Tertiary, I'd think. Selling model kits was also well ahead of making a good show. And that seems to be a success too. (Unlike Back Arrow, which had a major marketing push early on that still leaves unsold merch on store shelves to this day.) I've still got the Macross, Eureka 7, Knights, and Fafner movies to see if I want to make a list of all the mech anime from 2021 in quality order, and I quit Sakugan, Ancient Girl's Frame, and Megaton Musashi early, so I can't technically give the full verdict, but even with all that in play, 2021 had a lot of giant robots, and it seems like this year's going to have a decent pool as well. Opening with 86 and Attack on Titan may be repeating last year, but they're good enough that I'm not going to complain.
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Mar 17, 2022 05:50
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chiasaur11 posted:Tertiary, I'd think. Selling model kits was also well ahead of making a good show. And that seems to be a success too. (Unlike Back Arrow, which had a major marketing push early on that still leaves unsold merch on store shelves to this day.) I can certainly see why the model kits would sell. It's almost ridiculously obscene how good the mecha designs are, compared to how bland absolutely everything else seems to be (and I already like plenty of unsuccessful yet very fun shows, Back Arrow included, so that's no skin off my nose). In any event...for more mecha that are admittedly cool without requiring me to watch the actual show, there was a Kyoukai Senki part 2 preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4IJuxUBOjs wielder fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 18:18
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That thumbnail is a pretty boring "guess the anime protagonist" picture. Also it's not the fault of the show but given real world events I'm just imagining all those mecha getting taken out by tractors and pissed off Ukrainians armed with vodka and javelin missiles. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 18:22
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Arc Hammer posted:That thumbnail is a pretty boring "guess the anime protagonist" picture. TBF, that's not a million miles away from what the Japanese resistance in the show regularly does to the occupying powers' mecha.
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Mar 18, 2022 20:49
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Darth Walrus posted:TBF, that's not a million miles away from what the Japanese resistance in the show regularly does to the occupying powers' mecha. Do the mecha get bogged down in mud and have their gears seize up after not being used in 30 years?
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Mar 18, 2022 21:46
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Arc Hammer posted:Do the mecha get bogged down in mud and have their gears seize up after not being used in 30 years? No, but they do show one group of mechs as having guns so poo poo that they can't kill the protagonist despite him being immobilized for a minute right in front of them. (I don't think it's meant to be showing that as that bad, but having the protagonist unable to move and getting continuously lit up without taking damage doesn't make mechs particularly intimidating.) Of course, they suggest that Russia is a big dog in the European faction and... that didn't age well. Speaking of not aging well, I saw another episode of Ehrgeiz. It's studio Deen living down to their reputation, and it looks shockingly bad for 1997. But the weirdest thing three episodes in is the structure. We've got three plotlines that don't sync up at all. We get an officer of the anti-Earth space military who is hunting a robot, a completely different rebel cell on Earth that's doing terrorism(?) guided by a pseudo Newtype, and our actual protagonists, a group of space pirates living in an abandoned colony and raiding ships to steal ammo, food, rare wines, medicine, or whatever else they need. There's no connection between the plots so far, no reason to keep watching, and no action scenes that are particularly interesting. The show attempts to remedy this with a Star Wars opening crawl, expecting you to memorize a bunch of setting details that'll wind up largely irrelevant, but it's an even poorer way to get viewers invested than exposition dumps, and at 12 episodes, the show won't have time to cover all the consequences of its setting. I understand more and more how the show was forgotten, and it's not just people thinking it had Cloud fight a cop with a yoyo. Interruption done, it looks like the back half of Kyoukai Senki is going to go the 00 Gundam route, with one faction's designs dominating. The new Hounds even have a primarily white color scheme. Considering distinct designs were one of the few good things about season 1, I'm sure this will go great.
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Mar 31, 2022 08:38
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chiasaur11 posted:No, but they do show one group of mechs as having guns so poo poo that they can't kill the protagonist despite him being immobilized for a minute right in front of them. Oh, like episode 1 of Gundam '79. 
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Mar 31, 2022 11:05
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Schwarzwald posted:Oh, like episode 1 of Gundam '79. Only somehow even moreso!
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Mar 31, 2022 11:13
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The gundam being merely extremely well armoured rather than actually immune to zakus is one of the best changes in the origin, the panel of it coming back after the first engagement with char full of smoking craters in the chest rules.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:15
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chiasaur11 posted:Speaking of not aging well, I saw another episode of Ehrgeiz. It's studio Deen living down to their reputation, and it looks shockingly bad for 1997. But the weirdest thing three episodes in is the structure. We've got three plotlines that don't sync up at all. We get an officer of the anti-Earth space military who is hunting a robot, a completely different rebel cell on Earth that's doing terrorism(?) guided by a pseudo Newtype, and our actual protagonists, a group of space pirates living in an abandoned colony and raiding ships to steal ammo, food, rare wines, medicine, or whatever else they need. I do like the implication that rare wine is a “need”
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Mar 31, 2022 15:56
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I never really found it a major problem in the original show, because the Zaku II's machine gun is just about the only weapon in the entire show it's actually immune to the damage of really. Heat weapons rip the Gundam apart multiple times, including when used by nameless characters, and even the "Iron Nail" weapons on some suits and mobile armors damaged the Gundam; with the claws on the Grublo ripping off the Gundam's leg as an example. Which doesn't even take long, because Char uses a heat hawk to damage the Gundam's shield in the 5th or 6th episode. The bazooka used by Zaku IIs and Doms is presented as a threat multiple times too. As is the cannon on the Magella Top, with Ryu having to sacrifice himself to save the Gundam from one. Hell, the Gundam wasn't even entirely immune to Zaku II machineguns, because Sayla warns Amuro that even the Gundam's luna titanium will probably crack if hit repeatedly in the same spot with Zaku machine guns when Char starts hitting the Gundam consistently in the same place in episode 7 or 8 of the show. The sturdiness of the armor to machinegun fire makes a good explanation for why Amuro can survive his first few encounters, and it being nearly immune to them is kind of important for animation purposes since Sunrise had to animate cheaply given their relative poverty at the time. After those first few episodes though, it's basically ignored and the Gundam gets damaged in various ways fairly often. It probably takes damage more than almost any other Gundam in the franchise.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:58
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I feel it would make sense to have Zaku machineguns gouging out shallow craters across a Gundam's armour, though. Only superficial damage, but very visible. They're full-auto 120mm cannons, c'mon. That can't be good for the paintwork.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:09
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Darth Walrus posted:I feel it would make sense to have Zaku machineguns gouging out shallow craters across a Gundam's armour, though. Only superficial damage, but very visible. They're full-auto 120mm cannons, c'mon. That can't be good for the paintwork. Sure, but that requires time and money Sunrise didn't have in 1979/1980; so I don't find it remotely egregious that they didn't.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:12
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Well most other gundams get the mid season upgrade while the poor grandaddy gets one magnetic coating paint job and a boatload of replacement parts. Of course it took more damage, it survived longer.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:16
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It takes most of it's damage in the first half of the show though; especially from Goufs. Which, frankly, are, by far, the single most effective unit against the Gundam. A pair of un-named pilots in Goufs who only have a few seconds screen time between them do more damage and come closer to destroying the Gundam than several supposed "aces". Including making Amuro scream in terror because he thinks he's about to die.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:23
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Well the Gouf is the superior suit. Sure Ral thinks if he got his Doms he could have won but really, what good is winning if you can't do it with style?
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Mar 31, 2022 16:48
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Artum posted:The gundam being merely extremely well armoured rather than actually immune to zakus is one of the best changes in the origin, the panel of it coming back after the first engagement with char full of smoking craters in the chest rules. Yeah, the Origin really takes advantage of being able to do detail work that wouldn't have really worked in a weekly anime. But even in the original, it's a quick burst, the Zeon pilots being shocked, and then nobody shoots again for the rest of the scene. Kyoukai Senki, by contrast, has four hostile mechs pin the protagonist down, hold him in place, and fire directly on the cockpit for ten seconds on full auto without a single round getting through, which feels really awkward for future tension. It tries to get some interest in the moment by showing the armor glowing orange where it was shot, but if you can only get through with perfect shots for an extended period of time with the most cooperative enemy imaginable, then it's hard to feel like the hero getting shot later maters at all, better gun or no. There was also a really weird bit where the villains had ID locks on their guns, when everyone uses drones. People aren't going to be snatching guns on the battlefield, because that would be really complicated programming for no effort, and anyone who was installing your guns on their robots would have the time to crack the system protections. Meanwhile, the ID lock system adds a lot of expense to your guns and the possibility of failure in mid-combat. It's trying to be clever and winding up stupid.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:41
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Macross Frontier is the one where Macross throws a giant haymaker punch right?
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Apr 2, 2022 21:27
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Naw that happens in the og
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Apr 2, 2022 21:39
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