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Codependent Poster posted:The Colts are pretty similar to the Browns with a great running game and solid offensive line and defense. Reich is a very QB friendly coach as well. It would be a good fit for Baker. I mean considering what Reich got out of Wentz, I think he can get a good amount out of Mayfield. Especially if Mayfield has a chip on his shoulder, given he played through injuries last year for the Browns, and they treated him like this.
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Mar 19, 2022 12:29
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DariusLikewise posted:I think there's going to zero established QBs moving this year Just wanted to have a laugh at this almost two months to the day later
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Mar 19, 2022 12:36
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I’d be shocked if Reich wants to deal with Wentz But Never As Good in his make or break year
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Mar 19, 2022 14:13
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The problem with Wentz wasn't talent, it was that everyone hated him and he wasn't a good leader. That combined with being bone headed just made him toxic. Even if Baker isn't as good and still makes mistakes, that's fine so long as he is a leader.
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Mar 19, 2022 14:37
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Why would he want to go to a Panthers team where the coach is a dead man walking?
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Mar 19, 2022 14:56
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Kalli posted:I accepted Kaepernick's never getting another shot years back. Dude is completely blackballed, it's like he sexually assaulted 23 women, zero chance of making a roster. Kaep’s situation just sucks because he was on a downward trend as a passer and it has given the league so much cover in what is clearly a blacklist situation. He clearly wasn’t going to be a top 15 QB like some people would like to believe, but he was still good enough to compete for a starting job somewhere. Meanwhile I’m sure Sam Darnold will get a third shot as a backup in 2023 because he got benched repeatedly but never rocked the boat. He will have a long career earning millions while holding a clipboard. Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Why would he want to go to a Panthers team where the coach is a dead man walking? I think Panthers fans talked themselves into this one because of the Clemson ties. I wouldn’t want to play for Carolina if I was an elite QB.
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Mar 19, 2022 15:12
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I dont know if you can say Wentz is better than Baker. Wentz has been awful outside that one season and all indications point that to be a wild outlier and not this hidden true potential he has waiting to be unlocked again. IIRC, he was being propped up by unsustainable red zone numbers but I can't seem to find the deep dive I read on it again
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Mar 19, 2022 15:16
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Also lol if you think Baker wants to go to a team that was desperately coveting the same quarterback he just got replaced with.
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Mar 19, 2022 15:21
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Slowpoke! posted:Kaep’s situation just sucks because he was on a downward trend as a passer and it has given the league so much cover in what is clearly a blacklist situation. He clearly wasn’t going to be a top 15 QB like some people would like to believe, but he was still good enough to compete for a starting job somewhere. This isn't true at all. In his final year, the Niners rushed him back from shoulder injury as soon as possible to try and make the playoffs instead of starting (super bowl winning QB) Blaine Gabbert. He didn't look fully recovered, but he was at least in the top half of passers. Stop listening to narratives like "Kaep wasn't a good passer" or "Dak Prescott is good" and pay attention to actual football.
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Mar 19, 2022 15:22
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Slowpoke! posted:Kaep’s situation just sucks because he was on a downward trend as a passer and it has given the league so much cover in what is clearly a blacklist situation. He clearly wasn’t going to be a top 15 QB like some people would like to believe, but he was still good enough to compete for a starting job somewhere. Kaep had almost the exact same numbers as Garoppola did, if not better, in his last 6 games with the 49ers as Jimmy G did in the next season in his 6 games with them. Jimmy got a crazy contract, Kaep hasn't been back in the league.
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Mar 19, 2022 15:48
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I really hope Kaep comes back for all the obvious reasons, but also it would also give us some data (perhaps the first of its kind!) about the cost/benefit of sitting out for an extended period. Missing a season, or two, or three, or six obviously hurts you because you can't realistically stay in actual football shape and practice and game prep without being on an NFL team. Missing out on the experience is a major cost as well. The game evolves and you miss out on that. You forget things that you used to know. All of that. But! You avoid all of that wear and tear on your body. Forget just major injuries, just the weekly grind of being slammed into a bunch of times by huge strong men. How many years "younger" will Kaep be, in terms of damage to his body, than his actual age indicates? It isn't measurable of course, but it would be fascinating for people who actually know how to examine game tape to see him out there playing and compare it to other QB's his actual age vs. other QB's six years younger than him. Who would he more closely resemble?
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Mar 19, 2022 16:02
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syzpid posted:Kaep had almost the exact same numbers as Garoppola did, if not better, in his last 6 games with the 49ers as Jimmy G did in the next season in his 6 games with them. Jimmy got a crazy contract, Kaep hasn't been back in the league. He also made it to the Super Bowl in his first half season as a starter and the NFC championship game the next year where they lost by 6 to a Seattle team that went 13-3 and beat the living Christ out of a Peyton Manning led Denver offense that looked loving unstoppable that season. He also absolutely electrified the league with that playoff game against GB and became a national name. This was in one and a half years as a starter. Any other (white) QB with these credentials would be labeled a "winner" who "gets things done" and just has to work on X, Y, Z or be put in the correct scheme with the right coach. They would have been given multiple chances to prove it again and again. Hell, there are known career washouts that have accomplished far less who keep getting looked at for their "untapped potential". Mike Glennon still has a job. Sam Darnold got traded last year for a lot. Flacco, Henne and Mason Rudolph are still in the league. Trubisky just got another shot at a starting job. I know Kap struggled later on but the whole TEAM did and I have a real hard time believing the dude simply forgot how to play loving football all of a sudden. People act like he was playing himself out of the league already because SF was a disaster in 2014 and that nobody would want him. gently caress that. What happened to him was similar to what happened to Muahmmed Ali IMO and it's sad we'll never get to really know what he may have been able to do in his prime had he been given a shot to work on his game. But he looked pretty loving good to me for a while.
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Mar 19, 2022 17:35
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Racing Stripe posted:
He'll be no Tom Brady then! 
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Mar 19, 2022 18:28
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BlindSite posted:If that twitter from earlier assigning Mayfield a grade of a third/second was accurate ^^ I read those words and my first thought was "someone believes Mayfield is no better than a third or second-string QB." Then I realized it actually refers to third or second-round pick. I could kinda believe it either way.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:30
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Obviously politics is what kept him out of the league outright but "Kaep isn't a good passer" was consensus opinion by mid-2015 when he got benched outright for Blaine Gabbert and deserved it, not something that just popped up after the protest got everyone all pissed off at him. Like before that stuff even came about the trade rumors around Kaepernick were things like "the Broncos will give up a 4th but only if he takes a 50% pay cut." His star fell hard post-extension, I know this because I read 10 million posts making fun of that extension. He'd definitely have hung around in the league had he not been blackballed but his trajectory was somewhere between "laughingstock-tier starter" and "backup who maybe runs some gadget formations." He deserved/deserves a job as much as your Darnolds and Gabberts and all that but there was no indication after the first couple years that he'd be anymore secretly good than they are. I guess sometimes Ryan Tannehill randomly becomes a Pro Bowler.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:11
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Why has Kaepernick never tried to play in the AAF or USFL or any of the other random minor leagues that have popped up since he got cut? I feel like if he went to those places and absolutely dominated it would take a lot of steam out of the "he hasn't played actual football in forever" argument.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:26
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ShakeZula posted:Why has Kaepernick never tried to play in the AAF or USFL or any of the other random minor leagues that have popped up since he got cut? I feel like if he went to those places and absolutely dominated it would take a lot of steam out of the "he hasn't played actual football in forever" argument. Because he absolutely never wanted to and ensured he never would. He demanded 20 million a year from the XFL to play. The average contract was 55k per season.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:38
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Wasn't part of Vince's pitch "there's not going to be any of that communist kneeling here!"?
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Mar 19, 2022 23:39
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ShakeZula posted:Why has Kaepernick never tried to play in the AAF or USFL or any of the other random minor leagues that have popped up since he got cut? I feel like if he went to those places and absolutely dominated it would take a lot of steam out of the "he hasn't played actual football in forever" argument. I mean because he's not actually serious. Like the CFL has had a longer history than the NFL and his skillset would make him amazing at that league. He was blackballed by the NFL, but also Nike commercials pay better than starting QB of the Stampeders. Both things are true and the idea you can just plug him into an NFL team now or even a few years ago and he'll be fine I don't find credible.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:40
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pasaluki posted:I mean because he's not actually serious. Not wanting to play football in a gimmick league in front of tens of fans when you’ve made it to the Super Bowl isn’t a sign of not being serious. “If he really loved football he’d do it for peanuts in a bad league nobody cares about” is a dumb take.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:56
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Not wanting to play football in a gimmick league in front of tens of fans when you’ve made it to the Super Bowl isn’t a sign of not being serious. “If he really loved football he’d do it for peanuts in a bad league nobody cares about” is a dumb take. That he can still play in the NFL is a dumb take. If he was any good another team would have signed him already. I say this on the backdrop of: A black quarterback with 22 civil cases got the most guaranteed money ever in the history of the league. He played in a Superbowl and this dude has as many wins as Trubisky. The difference is only one of these players is really good at football.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:06
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pasaluki posted:That he can still play in the NFL is a dumb take. This may shock you but the NFL cares way less about rape than about making the troops and cops mad. Watson is a better QB than Kaepernick ever was, but Cam Newton started for two teams recently. The Saints had Taysom Hill play QB, on purpose! They blackballed him long enough that people like you would say “well obviously he can’t play NOW, he hasn’t played in six years.” That was the entire point of doing it. Expecting him to go play in some bullshit league for less than you can make as a junior programmer out of college to prove his merit or desire is loving stupid as hell. Imagine if that was the expected path every time someone in sports took an unpopular social stand. Sorry Muhammad, you’re gonna have to go do four rounders on the undercard at an Indian casino for a few years before we can give you a shot at the big time again.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:16
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but kaepernick didn't get cut because he couldn't play; there's a cost-benefit analysis that happens either at a conscious or unconscious level for each of these owners and the kind of trouble watson will bring is ultimately less than the kind of trouble kaepernick will bring, relative to each man's skill level regardless of whether or not he'd still be playing right now or if he would've flamed out in another three years as a backup, his career was artificially shortened for non-football reasons, so we'll never know the answer for sure. it's unknowable, and even if you're confident he would've kept trending down (which, in a non-chip offense, maybe he would've recovered), he was a qb who had a 4:1 td:int ratio, had been to a super bowl, and was definitively better every time he played than the guy he was benched for hE wOuLd PlAy If He WaS aCtUaLlY tHaT gOoD is a stupid argument, since bisciotti outright said that he was afraid of backlash from signing him. there are factors other than his play that factor into the decision; if and when he ever does come back, it will likely be far out of his physical prime, and both sides will be convinced that they're still right anyways: the kaepernick believers will think that he could still be effective if he hadn't been locked out of football for so long, and the doubters will take it as a sign that he was never going to be effective anyways, as other QBs have been effective at age 34-35 and if he's aging like that after not taking contact for 5 years, how bad would he have been if he was playing? how good he is or isn't is beside the point. he was good enough to get signed after he was released, and he didn't, and he hasn't been signed since, and the football reasons for that not happening are strenuous. it's almost certain that nfl ownership are waiting for him to age out of the league, regardless of how good he is, and simply never have to tangle with the question. the worst case scenario for the nfl is that somebody signs him and he's good, because then people will wonder why he didn't get signed sooner. independent of any political blackballing, the nfl would rather not deal with that fiasco.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:18
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pasaluki posted:That he can still play in the NFL is a dumb take. Oh word? The same NFL that settled a suit claiming that they colluded to keep him out of the league would also just sign the guy they colluded to keep out of the league?
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Mar 20, 2022 00:19
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The fact that not a single team has run him out during preseason when they’re trying out dudes off the street and rugby players is evidence enough that nobody was ever serious about giving him a shot. And the stuff about him refusing to play for less than X million or whatever is always just vague rumor, nobody has ever claimed that they offered him a contract once since he hit free agency but somehow it’s just known that he wants to be a starter or wants 20 million dollars or whatever.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:26
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The fact that not a single team has run him out during preseason when they’re trying out dudes off the street and rugby players is evidence enough that nobody was ever serious about giving him a shot. And the stuff about him refusing to play for less than X million or whatever is always just vague rumor, nobody has ever claimed that they offered him a contract once since he hit free agency but somehow it’s just known that he wants to be a starter or wants 20 million dollars or whatever. That comes straight from Oliver Luck, commissioner of the XFL.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:29
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What it comes down to is that Kaepernick threw himself in to the same space that Tebow ended up: a middling QB whose skills weren't worth anywhere near the insane media circus they would draw wherever they would go, whatever the role.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:31
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Roasted Donut posted:That comes straight from Oliver Luck, commissioner of the XFL. He wants to play in the NFL, not the joke league that’s desperate for any attention it can get.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:32
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Roasted Donut posted:What it comes down to is that Kaepernick threw himself in to the same space that Tebow ended up: a middling QB whose skills weren't worth anywhere near the insane media circus they would draw wherever they would go, whatever the role.  Even once it was obvious that Tebow sucked he got multiple chances on other teams. He was a part of the Jets, Pats, and Eagles before the Urban Meyer Experience happened
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Mar 20, 2022 00:35
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Freaquency posted:Oh word? The same NFL that settled a suit claiming that they colluded to keep him out of the league would also just sign the guy they colluded to keep out of the league? I'm not saying the NFL didn't collude to keep him from getting a job especially the first few years. But if this is Watson one of the owners is going to buck the NFL and sign him anyway. Pretending that because he was into BLM that would really scare these ambition crazed owners from signing him when the truth is he got screwed but was never all that good to begin with.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:35
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Roasted Donut posted:What it comes down to is that Kaepernick threw himself in to the same space that Tebow ended up: a middling QB whose skills weren't worth anywhere near the insane media circus they would draw wherever they would go, whatever the role. If only the very best and most irreplaceable players can get away with saying things like “cops shouldn’t act like violent thugs and should stop killing people for no reason” then that’s going to have a chilling effect on other players who might want to speak out, which is entirely the point. You shouldn’t have to be a future hall of famer to be allowed to express your option without being run out of the league.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:39
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YOLOsubmarine posted:If only the very best and most irreplaceable players can get away with saying things like “cops shouldn’t act like violent thugs and should stop killing people for no reason” then that’s going to have a chilling effect on other players who might want to speak out, which is entirely the point. You shouldn’t have to be a future hall of famer to be allowed to express your option without being run out of the league. You shouldn't, but that's the way it is. If you're not really worth the trouble, no one is going to bother.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:42
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Dude seemed like he could play pretty well to me from what I saw. I'm hard pressed to name a QB with 18 or 20 games under his belt who went to the Big Dance as well as an NCF championship game within that span where he lost by 6 points to the best team in football and held his own as basically a rookie against the Ravens in his one Super Bowl appearance. Was all that a fluke? Give me a loving break. I suppose it's far to say he needed to work on parts of his game but who the gently caress doesn't?
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Mar 20, 2022 00:43
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pasaluki posted:I'm not saying the NFL didn't collude to keep him from getting a job especially the first few years. But if this is Watson one of the owners is going to buck the NFL and sign him anyway. Pretending that because he was into BLM that would really scare these ambition crazed owners from signing him when the truth is he got screwed but was never all that good to begin with. Personally I think that those two statements are incompatible. If he wasn’t good enough to be worth signing then there’s no need to get everyone to collude to keep him out since he’s going to wash out anyway. If he was really as bad as some try to say he was then the league really did him a solid by keeping him out. If he goes to another team and winds up a lovely backup or languishing on a practice squad then the book is closed. Instead we’re here 6 years after the fact still talking about him and the cause he kneeled for. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he only throws out these “best shape of his life” PR bits to get a news cycle or two and remind people of the NFL showing it’s whole collective rear end. I’m sure part of him still wants to play, but realistically those chances are incredibly slim and he has to know that.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:46
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I mean I think it you play in the AXFL your accepting your real career is over.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:59
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Roasted Donut posted:You shouldn't, but that's the way it is. If you're not really worth the trouble, no one is going to bother. Right, he’s not on the league because it’s run and supported by reactionary trash, not because he’s too bad at football, glad we agree.
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Mar 20, 2022 01:08
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Freaquency posted:Personally I think that those two statements are incompatible. If he wasn’t good enough to be worth signing then there’s no need to get everyone to collude to keep him out since he’s going to wash out anyway. It's actually: The NFL only could collude against him because he wasn't very good.
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Mar 20, 2022 01:10
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BiggerBoat posted:Dude seemed like he could play pretty well to me from what I saw. I'm hard pressed to name a QB with 18 or 20 games under his belt who went to the Big Dance as well as an NCF championship game within that span where he lost by 6 points to the best team in football and held his own as basically a rookie against the Ravens in his one Super Bowl appearance. Was all that a fluke? Give me a loving break. i just want to confirm that you're talking about kaepernick?
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Mar 20, 2022 01:19
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i know 2016 is a lifetime ago, but he played like dog rear end poo poo that season. i definitely agree that he's been blackballed the gently caress out of the league, there's no reason nate fuckin peterman should ever be sniffing a starting snap in a football game ever. but kaepernick was not a good qb after like 2014
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Mar 20, 2022 01:22
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pasaluki posted:It's actually: That would be a dumb take tho
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Mar 20, 2022 01:31
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