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Robo Reagan posted:why dont they just use the cyber to hack the missile and send it back at whoever launched it. i mean if we arent doing that why the hell are we telling everyone to learn to code this only works when your enemy forgot to change the default wifi password on their missile
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Mar 18, 2022 15:14
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indigi posted:I think they do try to do this but it’s really hard and you don’t have much time https://i.imgur.com/CVpc7nD.mp4
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Mar 18, 2022 15:15
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Rutibex posted:this only works when your enemy forgot to change the default wifi password on their missile so all the time?
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Mar 18, 2022 16:14
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Chaff use in Vietnam is interesting. If I remember, there were F-4s in most large strike packages that laid down corridors of chaff. Formatting is trash on mobile but, Defense suppression forces include Wild Weasels, standoff radar jammers, flights laying chaff corridors, and flak suppression flights. These assets helped supplement and enhance the self-protection capability of each participating aircraft and the self-protection capabilities (radar warning receivers and electronic countermeasures pods) developed dramatically after so many aircraft were lost to the surface-to-air threat. These forces were comparable to the air superiority flights mentioned above (escorts, CAP, sweep) but were tasked exclusively against the dense surface-to-air defenses (early warning, height finder, and target acquisition radars, surface-to-air missiles, antiaircraft artillery). The radar jammers and chaff corridors were nonlethal measures that covered the strikers from detection, confused the enemy air defenses, and degraded the guidance and targeting of the weapons to effectively engage the strike flights. Chaff flights had a very dangerous mission: fly straight and level and seed the airspace with tiny chaff filaments that looked like hair swept from the floor of barbershop. The North Vietnamese quickly learned that the best way to neutralize the chaff threat was to launch MiGs to shoot the chaffers down, so escorts needed to fly with the chaff flights and protect them from intercept. Jammers had to fly in close enough to achieve an effective signal-to-noise ratio against the enemy radars in order to provide effective coverage for inbound strike flights. Most standoff jammers had radiation patterns off one or both wings so their orbits had to be positioned so the victim radars were at 90 degrees to the direction of the jammer racetrack. The Weasels and flak suppression flights made the threats against the surface-to-air defenses credible so SAM operators faced the very real deterrence of lethal retribution for firing on US aircraft. The Wild Weasel mission was THE most dangerous job of the air war and many of these aircraft and crews were lost while engaging the threats. Weasels tended to play "cat and mouse" to distract the SAM sites, get them to radiate and perhaps fire missiles, so the antiradiation missiles (ARM) could home in on the target tracking radars to kill the radar operators in the van. Multiple Weasel flights taunt one or more SAM sites so one flight could attack the site while it was distracted by another flight. Jammer – These aircraft have a stand-off jamming capability. Put them in orbits just out of reach of enemy defenses and use them to protect your attacking aircraft. Orient the patrol paths 90 degrees from the direction of the SAM defenses since the jamming radiates out from the wings. Example: EB-66E. Chaff – These aircraft have chaff pods that dispense chaff corridors ahead of the strike flights or blanket a target area. Fly the chaff flights into an area of enemy radar defenses and use them to lay chaff corridors in advance of your attacking aircraft or blanket a target area to support multiple attackers from different directions. Example: F-4D with ALE-38 chaff pods. Weasel – These aircraft are used to suppress enemy SAM defenses through intimidation and possible attack. Use them to reduce the threat of enemy SAM’s, but don’t expect them to completely eliminate that threat. Air War over Vietnam, Gary C. "Mo" Morgan AN/ALE-38 Chaff/Flare Pod Featured in CMO   Operation Linebacker II 1972, Marshall Michel
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Mar 18, 2022 16:19
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Robo Reagan posted:why dont they just use the cyber to hack the missile and send it back at whoever launched it. i mean if we arent doing that why the hell are we telling everyone to learn to code They try to jam them but that only goes so far. As for hacking, unless you're a Cylon it can't be done that fast.
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Mar 18, 2022 19:46
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Frosted Flake posted:What’s the difference between turbojet and turbofan again? I could never remember which was airliners and which was military aircraft. Little late and not exactly on WW3, but I didn't see anyone else answer it. Turbojets are old style, used in most of the nazijets. They just compress the air and poo poo out the exhaust. 707 and Concorde engines were turbojet. Turbofan is basically a turbojet that has some fan(s) in it that are driven by the turbojet turbine. I think pretty much every modern jet engine is turbofan now, military or commercial. Fighter jets mostly switched to this by the 70s/80s. Turboprop has all or most of the parts of a jet engine, but the exhaust just drives the turbine which drives the prop and doesn't really provide thrust.
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Mar 18, 2022 19:57
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Cuttlefush posted:Little late and not exactly on WW3, but I didn't see anyone else answer it. It's basically just a question of bypass ratio (amount of air that goes through the turbine compressor vs around it). Turbojet: no bypass Turbofan: some bypass Turboprop: all the bypass
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Mar 18, 2022 20:03
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Cuttlefush posted:Little late and not exactly on WW3, but I didn't see anyone else answer it. The fan allows for a higher compression then?
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Mar 18, 2022 21:41
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Frosted Flake posted:The fan allows for a higher compression then? ^^ what oldest man said. The fan part is for performance/efficiency at lower speeds where turbojets are starving. There are probably a lot of other reasons and technicalities that I'm completely ignorant of though.
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Mar 18, 2022 21:50
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Frosted Flake posted:The fan allows for a higher compression then? It's actually kind of the opposite. The basic functional layout of a turbine (from front to back) is: Compressor stages: shove the air together and make it denser than ambient by spinning compressor blades with a driveshaft Combustor: squirt fuel in and set it on fire Turbine stages: extract power from the fuel/air combustion to power the operation of the turbine (this is the input to the aforementioned driveshaft) Nozzle (optional): expand the turbine exhaust like a rocket nozzle and use it for direct thrust A turbojet only develops thrust from expanding its turbine exhaust in a nozzle after the combustor. A turbofan is using a lot of the power generated in the turbine stage to spin a big ducted fan stuck onto the front of the engine to generate thrust by shoving air backward without directing it into the compressor, as well as getting thrust directly from the gas expansion in the nozzle. A turbo prop goes even further and replaces the ducted fan with a propeller (and typically the nozzle is not generating much if any thrust in this configuration and becomes more like an exhaust pipe). At relatively low speeds, getting most of your thrust from a fan/prop powered by the turbine is going to be a lot more efficient than getting it from the turbine exhaust itself. This gets easier as your plane speeds up (because you are shoving air into the front of the compressor by virtue of your speed relative to the air) until eventually around mach 1, you can run the combustor cycle without a powered compressor at all (just a little inlet restriction to shove the air together), which means you don't need to extract any power from the combustion to run said compressor which means you can dispense with the turbine blades as well and it's ramjet time baby 
The Oldest Man has issued a correction as of 23:09 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 23:04
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The Oldest Man posted:No good, China already built an air-to-air missile that homes in on AdWords cookies Lol
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Mar 18, 2022 23:18
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Another very nerdy way to think about this is that all turbine aircraft engines are basically lazy rocket motors that get their oxidizer by scooping it in the front instead of by carrying it in a tank. At very high speeds, you literally just need a scoop shaped the right way to get the oxidizer in. At lower speeds, you aren't ingesting enough oxidizer fast enough to combust the fuel and need a compressor to cram it in there and thus you also need turbines between the combustion chamber and the nozzle to tap some of that power to drive the compressor. At lower speeds still (aka typical aircraft cruise speeds), it starts to become more efficient to get more and more of the thrust from the turbines driving a big fan or (lower speeds still) a big propeller rather than using direct thrust from combustion. And at extremely low speeds you won't be able to get generate enough lift to get off the ground, so you will need to attach the turbine drive shaft to something that can just push against the ground directly like  yeah there you go
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Mar 18, 2022 23:22
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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I was reading that China has made huge strides in military aviation by working with Russia, and is now able to mostly produce licence built or even improved Russian engines. They did mention that they still use Russian turbine blades though. If they’re working together I imagine it’s not that the alloy is a secret, so what makes those blades in particular so tricky for China - The Workshop of the World?
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Mar 19, 2022 01:18
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Frosted Flake posted:Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. Slavic space magic
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Mar 19, 2022 01:29
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China is still limited by what heavy machinery they have. It's the same reason why they can't make their own highest-end computer chips yet. The machine to make those chips is only made by a company in Netherlands and it can't be sold to China. They wanted to buy the Ukrainian engine manufacturer so that they would get the machines/process/whatever but USA blocked the sale. China doesn't have the tools to make everything, just almost everything.
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Mar 19, 2022 03:07
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Lostconfused posted:China is still limited by what heavy machinery they have. there’s been significant progress on the metallurgy associated with turbine blades evidenced by the roll out of the wholly domestic ws10 engines on thee latest Chinese fighters. chip manufacturing will come soon enough as well with the amount of investment china is putting into it.
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Mar 19, 2022 05:15
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Yeah I am just saying China is still "developing it's productive forces" as it were.
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Mar 19, 2022 05:45
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i'm sure the tourism + RE speculation + money laundering economic model will definitely not crash "advanced" western nations once china makes everything
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Mar 19, 2022 10:00
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Lostconfused posted:Yeah I am just saying China is still "developing it's productive forces" as it were. They're extremely close to having everything domestically, though. Like, a single digit number of years close.
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Mar 19, 2022 17:20
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The Oldest Man posted:They're extremely close to having everything domestically, though. Like, a single digit number of years close. nothing is produced only domestically. they are not close to having fully domestic vertically integrated industries. nobody is and it might not be possible to anymore.
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Mar 19, 2022 17:54
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relatively minor changes in container flow rates have caused huge repercussions for the global economy. international bulk trading cannot easily be separated from the financialized economy because of the need for swaps and tends to collapse when financial crises occur. a real Chinese American conflict breaks the systems all modern supply chains use and nobody has industry after inventories run out because nobody can function as an autarky anymore.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:09
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Bar Ran Dun posted:nothing is produced only domestically. I was speaking in terms of tooling to produce defense critical finished products, which they've steadily been acquiring for decades.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:13
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The Oldest Man posted:I was speaking in terms of tooling to produce defense critical finished products, which they've steadily been acquiring for decades. I am too, that tooling is useless without the inputs for the line which come from everywhere while also having extremely limited sourcing origins because of what economies of scale has done to production of very specific inputs worldwide. the world might try to move away from this... but it’s going by on take at least as long as it took to develop.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:29
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idk dude, necessity is the mother of invention etc etc. given a global jump ball for resources in a post-unipolar world between the us, organized under the anarchy of the market, and china, organized under the CPC, my money is on the reds
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Mar 19, 2022 18:54
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I am too, that tooling is useless without the inputs for the line which come from everywhere while also having extremely limited sourcing origins because of what economies of scale has done to production of very specific inputs worldwide. There's a big difference between "we can't make top tier jet fighters if the entire global supply chain system enters a state of collapse due to a total economic war scenario" and "we can't make top tier jet fighters under bau conditions"
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Mar 19, 2022 19:00
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Centrist Committee posted:given a global jump ball for resources the system is the physical ability to move those resources internationally. there isn’t a jump ball for them if the system fails.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:06
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So is it the machine to make the blades or the blades themselves that’s the problem?
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Mar 19, 2022 19:11
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The Oldest Man posted:There's a big difference between "we can't make top tier jet fighters if the entire global supply chain system enters a state of collapse due to a total economic war scenario" and "we can't make top tier jet fighters under bau conditions" a real Chinese American conflict is the entire global supply chain system enters a state of collapse due to a total economic war scenario
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Mar 19, 2022 19:16
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Bar Ran Dun posted:the system is the physical ability to move those resources internationally. there isn’t a jump ball for them if the system fails. systems change is my point
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Mar 19, 2022 19:19
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Frosted Flake posted:So is it the machine to make the blades or the blades themselves that’s the problem? it might be the a gas you need to make a chip. or nickle to make stainless. or the single factory that makes medicine X. and all at the same time. most manufactured things have assloads of inputs especially several tiers down. that’s a thing manufactures are already dealing with. it’s suppliers of suppliers of suppliers that are out of thing X keeping finished goods from being made.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:22
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Bar Ran Dun posted:a real Chinese American conflict is the entire global supply chain system enters a state of collapse due to a total economic war scenario It feels like we're back on Great Game style conflict where competing imperial powers make a lot of noise about how evil the other one is but carefully restrict the bounds of conflict so that only proxies actually eat poo poo If you're talking about, literally, F/A-18s going up against J20s over the strait of taiwan as your bar for a "real" conflict then yeah, sure. But also that would most likely be a prelude to a nuclear conflict and in that scenario supply chain collapse is just one of a number of exciting barriers to manufacturing jet fighters including "all the people who know how were just incinerated"
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Mar 19, 2022 19:25
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Centrist Committee posted:systems change is my point yes but not all change is reversible. think about it like an ecosystem. if you have a really complicated one with balanced feedback loops and complicated interdependencies and you break it. I mean that’s change, but it’s not a reversible change. and the end state is pretty lovely on the other side of the change. it’s whoops we can’t make bronze anymore cause we can’t get tin. well yeah the Egyptians did make it through but lol, lmao.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:32
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if i was in cornwall i would have simply not let the late bronze collapse happen
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Mar 19, 2022 19:34
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i say swears online posted:if i was in cornwall i would have simply not let the late bronze collapse happen big tin conglomerate hiring pinkertons to kill sea people and precocious iron workers
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Mar 19, 2022 19:43
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Real hurthling! posted:big tin conglomerate hiring pinkertons to kill sea people and precocious iron workers Who Killed The Bloomery?
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Mar 19, 2022 19:51
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welsh tin mogul sponsoring murals and mosaics across the mediterranean mocking dumb orange rocks
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Mar 19, 2022 19:53
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the secret plot to use mommy influencers to spread fears about super tetanus
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Mar 19, 2022 19:58
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Frosted Flake posted:So is it the machine to make the blades or the blades themselves that’s the problem? Well they can now https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2022/03/china-220314-globaltimes02.htm quote:The technology gap between China and leading countries like the US in terms of jet engine development had been significantly narrowed in recent years, said Wang Ya'nan.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:01
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had never heard of ‘single crystal blade’ technology. wild poo poo https://www.americanscientist.org/article/each-blade-a-single-crystal
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Mar 20, 2022 02:33
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quote:Gell notes that rhenium is a “by-product of a by-product,” derived from specific copper-molybdenum ores, and a very costly element in limited supply. Before committing to the use of PWA 1484, Pratt & Whitney management had to be assured that rhenium could be obtained over time at a known, acceptable price. The novel solution was that the company entered into a long-term contract with a Chilean mining company to provide the material. Huh. So, um, anyone still interested in couping Chile? Asking for a friend.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:52
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