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roomtone posted:i think most of the actual endings of finales are positive. 1, 3, 6 and 7 all end on happy or hopeful notes with all problems pretty much resolved or on their way. 4 is a weird dream episode. 2 and 5 are the only actual tragic endings, i think. Season 7 ends with Anya dying all alone and undiscovered, Spike having to be sacrificed, and Sunnydale collapsing into oblivion, right? Yes I remember the Slayers all kicking rear end and stuff against the Uber Vamps turned into total jobbers (fun note: DVD commentary has Whedon himself saying "I know this is totally inconsistent but I don't care") but at most it was powerfully bittersweet.
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Mar 18, 2022 19:27
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yeah every finale is bittersweet (except 4, it's a totally different thing). even s3 has angel leaving. i was just talking about where it generally leaves the characters, primarily buffy.
roomtone fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 19:31
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NikkolasKing posted:Season 7 ends with Anya dying all alone and undiscovered, Spike having to be sacrificed, and Sunnydale collapsing into oblivion, right? roomtone posted:yeah every finale is bittersweet (except 4, it's a totally different thing). even s3 has angel leaving. i was just talking about where it generally leaves the characters, primarily buffy. For Angel I think only S1 is purely positive. S2 despite the silliness has last minute gut punch, S3 and S4 are grim in their own ways. S5 finale depends on what message you take from it. I remember someone on the forums making a case that it's a powerful rebuke of cynicism and there's something to it. Despite the undeniable sadness, the message of fighting the good fight being a worthy goal by itself is plenty powerful. "Let's go to work".
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Mar 18, 2022 20:28
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sad question posted:As I recall someone tells Xander she died fighting so undiscovered bit is not strictly true. And Sunnydale I think was evacuated. Yes that was Andrew I'm pretty sure because he is the liar and he lied to Xander. Xander was looking for her and we see her corpse just out of sight of him and Andrew tells him a big story about her epic demise when in reality she died all alone and as I was saying undiscovered. Maybe I'll just stop with Season 5 and move onto Angel. Sure it's just as depressing but I don't care as much about most of those characters. (I probably won't do this but goddamn it's gonna be pretty rough going after a point) NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 18, 2022 |
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Mar 18, 2022 20:36
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NikkolasKing posted:I just finished Season 2. There's so much I did not remember about "Becoming" I've been waiting for when Joyce would finally learn of Buffy's identity. I did not remember that and Buffy getting kicked out all happened in this episode. Part 2 is just one crushing blow after another. Speaking of which, another big thing I did not remember was Xander's lying to Buffy about what Willow said, what she was doing. That is....I can't recall if this is ever exposed but if it is, I can't blame Buffy for never forgiving him. Xander crossed a line here with his vindictiveness and pettiness. What he did to Buffy - hell, what he did to Angel - is too much. It's been a really long time but I didn't really see what Xander did as petty/vindictive. I think he knew that if he told Buffy what Willow was trying, she'd hold back because she'd be hoping for that magic cure. And given what Angelus was, holding back would kill her and everybody else. As for Spike, he was supposed to be a different kind of vampire than the religious nutjobs of the Master. In some ways he's not quite as evil as the rest of them (though still plenty evil). He likes the world as it is. He cares about Drusilla. And as hosed-up awful as what he tries to do at the end of Season Six is, he responds to that by seeking out his own "soul cure." In some ways he's stronger than Angel. Angel had his soul inflicted on him. Spike sought his soul out on his own to try to become a truly better person.
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Mar 18, 2022 20:43
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NikkolasKing posted:Yes that was Andrew I'm pretty sure because he is the liar and he lied to Xander. Xander was looking for her and we see her corpse just out of sight of him and Andrew tells him a big story about her epic demise when in reality she died all alone and as I was saying undiscovered.
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Mar 18, 2022 20:50
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sad question posted:For Angel I think only S1 is purely positive. S2 despite the silliness has last minute gut punch, S3 and S4 are grim in their own ways. S5 finale depends on what message you take from it. I remember someone on the forums making a case that it's a powerful rebuke of cynicism and there's something to it. Despite the undeniable sadness, the message of fighting the good fight being a worthy goal by itself is plenty powerful. "Let's go to work". Plus Season 5 has the Smile Time episode.
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Mar 18, 2022 20:53
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Everyone posted:It's been a really long time but I didn't really see what Xander did as petty/vindictive. I think he knew that if he told Buffy what Willow was trying, she'd hold back because she'd be hoping for that magic cure. And given what Angelus was, holding back would kill her and everybody else. That's a fair interpretation but Xander is so relentlessly hostile and murder happy that I don't think my interpretation is unwarranted. I forget if it's discussed and clarified later - and if it is we'll cross taht bridge when I get there - but as Xander freely admits, he always hated Angel. Relevantly, he was the one person (aside from Cordy who just agreed with him) who was against trying the curse at all and just wanted Buffy to kill Angelus. Even if it was entirely righteous anger for what Angelus has done, that would still be a vindictive motive to lie to Buffy. Everyone posted:As for Spike, he was supposed to be a different kind of vampire than the religious nutjobs of the Master. In some ways he's not quite as evil as the rest of them (though still plenty evil). He likes the world as it is. He cares about Drusilla. And as hosed-up awful as what he tries to do at the end of Season Six is, he responds to that by seeking out his own "soul cure." In some ways he's stronger than Angel. Angel had his soul inflicted on him. Spike sought his soul out on his own to try to become a truly better person. Spike is an anomaly among vampires. His personality changed barely at all upon his change and the chip in his head can be considered a kind of behaviorism to help cool his murderous impulses in a way not possible with other vampires. Like I said earlier, I think Spike does have a conscience of some kind in there, certainly more than Angelus. But their transformations and circumstances are worlds apart. Why they are so different, I have no idea. It's been argued in the fandom forever. sad question posted:Her death was unpleasantly unceremonious but Andrew was right there making GBS threads his pants and she died fighting a group of ubervamps after taking a few of them down, so that summary is not very fair. Fair enough. You definitely remember this more completely than I do.
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Mar 18, 2022 21:12
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In all fairness the way her death played out bothered me too, even before knowing behind the scenes stuff.
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Mar 18, 2022 21:26
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NikkolasKing posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NjXEDyzFsk OK, you're talking about Musical score here, which I feel needs some clarification. The Bronze would have real, seriously talented artists "performing" their poo poo. I remember Cibo Matto and Morcheeba showing up on the show. Hell, me rewatching this show in college is pretty much what got me into Trip Hop. (Incidentally, I majored in film and one of my project essays was about the actual music video for Cibo Matto's "Sugar Water". So there's a throughline in my life from this show. If the scene where they played it wasn't so memorable*, I'd have never looked up the band.) *When She Was Bad --- The song that's playing when Buffy's seducing and toying with Xander. "La la laa~aa--lilala la la laaa"
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Mar 19, 2022 03:16
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NikkolasKing posted:-The Fish Boy episode, if it deserves to exist at all (a big if) should not be sandwiched there before the big climax. I remember just skipping it entirely when I bought the S2 DVD way back. S5 had the same basic production problem and I prefer what they did there. Both seasons could only afford two big budget finale episodes, but S5 sandwiches bottle episode The Weight Of The World between the action heavy Spiral and The Gift. Spiral even comes right off the back of the previous episode cliffhanger. You get a longer run of episodes building directly to the climax, even if one is a quiet event.
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Mar 19, 2022 10:34
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Heavy_D posted:S5 had the same basic production problem and I prefer what they did there. Both seasons could only afford two big budget finale episodes, but S5 sandwiches bottle episode The Weight Of The World between the action heavy Spiral and The Gift. Spiral even comes right off the back of the previous episode cliffhanger. You get a longer run of episodes building directly to the climax, even if one is a quiet event. Go Fish is probably one of the more expensive episodes that season, given the complex set builds and the prosthetics involved. I don't think your comparison with Weight of the World really tracks.
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Mar 19, 2022 10:59
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I always liked Go Fish, it's just a nice self contained episode.
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Mar 19, 2022 12:06
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Open Source Idiom posted:Go Fish is probably one of the more expensive episodes that season, given the complex set builds and the prosthetics involved. I don't think your comparison with Weight of the World really tracks. Yeah, you're probably right. Shouldn't go assuming that outside the season arc automatically means cheaper filler! I guess the other thing is that by S5 the show is a lot more serialised - the few "standalone" episodes are all in the front half.
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Mar 19, 2022 12:47
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Heavy_D posted:Yeah, you're probably right. Shouldn't go assuming that outside the season arc automatically means cheaper filler! I guess the other thing is that by S5 the show is a lot more serialised - the few "standalone" episodes are all in the front half. Yeah, it's interesting to watch Buffy essentially invent a model of serialisation that a lot of other shows copied. I think the show struck a really good balance between episodes that enforced a status quo and ones that were serialised, and basically "solved" how to handle a 22 episode season on a structural level. I reckon a lot of other shows, like Farscape, SHIELD, Person Of Interest, Gotham, etc. took a lot from it in terms of pacing and breaking stories too. It's the kind of thing I find pretty interesting tbh.
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Mar 19, 2022 13:11
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Oasx posted:I always liked Go Fish, it's just a nice self contained episode. It's not a technically bad episode or anything. It just felt....superfluous. Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah, it's interesting to watch Buffy essentially invent a model of serialisation that a lot of other shows copied. I think the show struck a really good balance between episodes that enforced a status quo and ones that were serialised, and basically "solved" how to handle a 22 episode season on a structural level. I remember reading when I re-watched The X-Files that it was the show which really changed how TV shows were plotted? Randomly, there's the Online Creators thread on here which gives me a bit of a taste for video essays. Not 6 hours on ICarly taste but ya know, character and theme analyses nd stuff. I never saw anything on Buffy though but Reddit tells me of this Passion of the Nerd channel. I just finished the first couple eps of S3 and I'm slightly appalled I did not remember "Anne" at all. What a fantastic episode and I totally forgot AnneLily shows up in Angel a few times. She was a great character in this one ep alone and I see a fair bit of myself in her. Certainly this POTN fellow ha an appreciation for the filming part of a TV program, something I don't really care about unless the action scenes look awful. Obviously cinematography matters but...I dunno, I just think of story and characters and music. Filming stuff just passes right over my head. Also going to his episode on "Lie to Me," since he explicitly called back to it, he quotes Whedon's beliefs on the purposelessness of life and influence by Jean-Paul Sartre. I was actually reading Sartre right before I decided gently caress philosophy I wanna watch a good TV show. But something that has stuck with me since I myself watched Lie to Me is that Buffy is somewhat simple. I don't mean this in a bad way, not every great piece of work has to enforce moral ambiguity at every turn In fact, a lot of people nowadays get mad if a work has moral greayness to it. But just talking about Buffy, there is an afterlife. There's The First Evil. There is Whistler, a character I did not remember at all. So the world being "indifferent" and inherently meaningless as per Sartrean Existentailism doesn't really apply here. Ford's choices were not simply his own and neither are our heroes'. Faith's intro episode was...well, underwhelming might be the wrong word. It's more that it really isn't about Faith at all. It's about Buffy and the trauma of what happened with Angel. I wonder if Faith was just supposed to be a new Kendra, show up for a tiny bit and hen die? Only Eliza Dushku's charisma and (let's be honest here) sex appeal cannot be denied and she ended up being a favorite of many, including me.  Dammit I can't read what any of the Strengths are. Also I have not yet mentioned at all that Jonathan is a character who exists. He just shows up every few episodes for a short scene and a few lines and I'm left wondering why. I'm not sure why he exists or what he does besides the most heartwarming moment near the end of S3 and becoming a bad guy in S6.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:09
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Does... one of the Strengths say "good cock"? 
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Mar 19, 2022 18:21
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Nichelle B a more inclusive character than originally thought
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Mar 19, 2022 18:30
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sad question posted:Does... one of the Strengths say "good cock"? good cook, xander.
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Mar 19, 2022 18:41
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This thread has peaked my interest and I've decided watch it again. Skipped season 1 and straight into the second. I don't remember the body doubles for Buffy being so obvious. I thought the combat was good back then but maybe i just didn't pay as much attention. And some falls by the actors are hilarious. Giles gets thrown into a wall by the demon they summoned when he was ripper. He awkwardly stumbles onto his knees as though he's about to fall forward one way then falls backwards the other way. Also noticing a lot more bloopers but that could be that Disney is using the HD remaster. One episode Spike runs off after being defeated and then he just stops in the background far right of frame. I also don't know was it just more acceptable culturally back then or if it was mentioned at the time, but the Angel/Buffy romance comes across really creepy watching as an adult in 2022 if you stop to think about it. She's 17 in season 2, Angel fell in love with her when he saw her few years before that so she was 14/15. Giles doesn't seem all that bothered that Buffy loves an ancient vampire with the body of a man in his late 20s. Her mother does oppose it and it does go bad like she warned. So maybe there was a lesson there about teenagers dating older men. Or maybe the writers didn't put much thought into beyond it drives the plot and there's no way to have her in school and be of consenting age. Still, it just gives reason to pause when the relationship scenes come up.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:15
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Marenghi posted:Also noticing a lot more bloopers but that could be that Disney is using the HD remaster. One episode Spike runs off after being defeated and then he just stops in the background far right of frame. I've never actually watched the widescreen version but apparently the entire series is littered with stuff like this. They blocked the scenes for 4:3, so I've heard there are mics, crew visible, actors in the equivalent of t-poses and stuff like that. When I do rewatch it I'll probably go for that version because it'll probably be good for a few laughs. NikkolasKing posted:Also going to his episode on "Lie to Me," since he explicitly called back to it, he quotes Whedon's beliefs on the purposelessness of life and influence by Jean-Paul Sartre. I was actually reading Sartre right before I decided gently caress philosophy I wanna watch a good TV show. But something that has stuck with me since I myself watched Lie to Me is that Buffy is somewhat simple. I don't mean this in a bad way, not every great piece of work has to enforce moral ambiguity at every turn In fact, a lot of people nowadays get mad if a work has moral greayness to it. But just talking about Buffy, there is an afterlife. There's The First Evil. There is Whistler, a character I did not remember at all. So the world being "indifferent" and inherently meaningless as per Sartrean Existentailism doesn't really apply here. Ford's choices were not simply his own and neither are our heroes'. Angel does some actual existential stuff in mid season 2 with Angel coming to believe that there's no grand plan for the world, no reward, so his actions have to justify themselves. It's something that comes up sporadically in Angel and is how they end the show, but even there I don't think it really pans out with the mythology because there is good and evil and there are so many different kinds of afterlife and otherworlds that the idea of existentialism as we understand it just doesn't apply. There are unseen forces behind everything. The characters know more than 99.9% of the world and even they don't even know what the rules actually are. Buffy is a lot simpler yeah, but it's a show that sort of knows its limits, which Angel never really did (to good and bad effect). I know a lot gets written about Buffy and people have thought about the philosophy and politics of it more than most shows, but it's a show that can't even really keep its own lore straight before we get to a consistent philosophical statement. So, I take the things that episodes and story arcs are saying as individual chunks and if they contradict or don't follow with something that happens elsewhere on the show, that's okay as long as it works within its own context. Like Witchcraft - first it's just witchcraft, but then it becomes a metaphor for being a lesbian, and then becomes a metaphor for being a drug addict. The mythology is subservient to the character stories. I don't know if Buffy actually has a coherent perspective other than 'be a good person', and the show's idea of that is pretty mainstream for the time period. It doesn't seem to be pushing existentialism much at all. Well, maybe in The Body.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:34
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roomtone posted:When I do rewatch it I'll probably go for that version because it'll probably be good for a few laughs. Afaik it's the only streaming version available. DVDs and filez are the only way to watch the original now. I looked into it and they make some questionable choices. Some shots to fit wide they would zoom in cutting off important details from the borders of the frame.
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Mar 19, 2022 19:51
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roomtone posted:I've never actually watched the widescreen version but apparently the entire series is littered with stuff like this. They blocked the scenes for 4:3, so I've heard there are mics, crew visible, actors in the equivalent of t-poses and stuff like that. I think I know the exact part you mean about AtS Season 2. My memories of Angel are pretty scattered but I remember some of the key parts of that 'arc" and it was powerful stuff. I mentioned earlier Buffy and Angel are very different shows and one of those differences is Angel is a lot more concerned with moral ambiguity. In Buffy, Evil is a metaphysical principle. You can talk with it, argue with it, if not punch it. In Angel S2, when Angel is with Holland Manners and Holland takes him to the root of evil, it's revealed to be the plain old regular streets of LA, the regular world we all inhabit basically, it's as crushing for the viewer as it is for Angel; the fact there is no root to this evil, the evil is the normal world we all inhabit. Also Holland Manners was an amazing villain. Between him and the Mayor, somebody on Buffy and Angel knows how to write super polite and charming but super evil people very well. But once more Buffy and Angel are different. Aa friend of mine once pointed out the Mayor is pretty cartoonish in how over-the-top nice he is while Holland was a very believable "middle management evil."
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Mar 19, 2022 20:09
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Marenghi posted:This thread has peaked my interest and I've decided watch it again. Skipped season 1 and straight into the second. You can definitely tell when stunt actors are on screen in HD. This caused me to develop a stance of "just make sure the hair is similar and don't zoom on the face and it's fine" during my Buffy rewatch  Any criticism you can level at the creepyness of Twilight romance is also applicable to Buffy/Angel relationship, yeah. At least they pull the trigger on him becoming abusive (even if it's because of magic bullshit) and he eventually fucks off so this smooths over it somewhat. NikkolasKing posted:Also Holland Manners was an amazing villain. Between him and the Mayor, somebody on Buffy and Angel knows how to write super polite and charming but super evil people very well. But once more Buffy and Angel are different. Aa friend of mine once pointed out the Mayor is pretty cartoonish in how over-the-top nice he is while Holland was a very believable "middle management evil." I am reminded of this great bit from Angel when he decides to go to the Wolfram & Hart "home world" and gets a talk about evil from Holland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTiYR9PsmXc&t=158s Edit: Something that I really liked about Mayor is that his relationship with Faith is completely genuine. There is no double cross or ulterior motive, he wants what's best for his adoptive daughter, it just happens that he is ridiculously evil so they do evil poo poo together. When he talks to the doctor at the hospital after the fight with Buffy he is actually devastated 
sad question fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 19, 2022 |
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Mar 19, 2022 20:18
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NikkolasKing posted:It's not a technically bad episode or anything. It just felt....superfluous. In terms of the one Strengths section that isn't covered they're: Popular Cheerleader, Athletic, Yearbook Editor, Friendly, Good Cook and Nice
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Mar 19, 2022 20:19
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Everyone posted:In terms of the one Strengths section that isn't covered they're: Popular Cheerleader, Athletic, Yearbook Editor, Friendly, Good Cook and Nice Hey, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. sad question posted:I am reminded of this great bit from Angel when he decides to go to the Wolfram & Hart "home world" and gets a talk about evil from Holland: That's the scene I was remembering. It really is so well done.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:29
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NikkolasKing posted:Hey, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. No prob. At 53 with bifocals I get crappy eye-sight. Also, drat. Love that scene. It reminded me of a quote from a Dresden Files book where Nicodemos said something like "Apocaplypse is a state of mind." I wouldn't surprise me to learn that Jim Butcher adopted that bit from this scene.
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Mar 19, 2022 20:54
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Everyone posted:No prob. At 53 with bifocals I get crappy eye-sight. Speaking of Dresden Files, I had no idea Spike himself - James Marsters - read the audiobooks. I listened to the first Dresden book forever ago and it never occurred to me. I wasn't a huge fan of the book, to be honest. Maybe they get better. But in terms of the big modern fantasy hits, I like ASOIAF and especially Brandon Sanderson a lot more. I'm not sure if they have any influence from Buffy or not. Seems very doubtful in Martin's case at least. But maybe I should try some more Dresden Files in future if he's a Buffy fan.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:39
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sad question posted:You can definitely tell when stunt actors are on screen in HD. This caused me to develop a stance of "just make sure the hair is similar and don't zoom on the face and it's fine" during my Buffy rewatch I hadn't even considered it's an artifact of it being HD. Makes sense as I never remember it being so egregious.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:18
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sad question posted:I am reminded of this great bit from Angel when he decides to go to the Wolfram & Hart "home world" and gets a talk about evil from Holland: As wacky as Angel could get, I really love the plot device of Wolfram & Hart 'gifting' him control of the LA branch. It really drew a dividing line between Angel and Buffy (exemplified when Andrew turns up and point-blank tells Angel nobody trusts him anymore), and it fit completely with the Senior Partner's characterisation of not really caring about the little things, or even the overall balance of good and evil, but just about keeping the game going. It's also just an ingenious move on their part, the bureaucracy keeps him busy and obviously nothing corrupts like power.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:36
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NikkolasKing posted:Speaking of Dresden Files, I had no idea Spike himself - James Marsters - read the audiobooks. I listened to the first Dresden book forever ago and it never occurred to me. I wasn't a huge fan of the book, to be honest. Maybe they get better. But in terms of the big modern fantasy hits, I like ASOIAF and especially Brandon Sanderson a lot more. I'm not sure if they have any influence from Buffy or not. Seems very doubtful in Martin's case at least. I've read the Dresden Files up Book 17. I generally like the books.... but. But Butcher, especially up to Book 15 has a tendency to objectify women in the books. And I don't really want to get into the White Court Vampires. Like I said, I generally like the books, but I'm a 53 year old straight white male, so there's a lot of stuff that I'm maybe a little more predisposed to either excuse or not notice in the first place. Butcher's world-building is pretty top notch and honestly the whole series reads a lot like a pictureless superhero comic in a good way. I just kind of wanted to give you something like "fair warning" before you really got into them.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:43
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NikkolasKing posted:I remember reading when I re-watched The X-Files that it was the show which really changed how TV shows were plotted? The X-files has a starker divide between episodes that perpetuate the arc and those that don't -- that the serialisation is persistent is important, but not unique to serialised television at the time. Xena, Hercules, Deep Space Nine, Twin Peaks, etc. were all experimenting with serialisation, and tend to have a similar interest in persistent continuity that The X-Files did, but really only in select episodes (or sprints of episodes). Buffy kicked things into a higher gear, by doing things like applying a three-act structure to the 22 episode season and then using every episode to explore that arc. Season 2 of Buffy makes a very clear case for this with its trio of villains, each of whom are top dog for their respective act before being superseded by a more powerful member of their coterie at the advent of the next act -- but it's there in pretty much every season. There were other experiments with serialisation at the time, like Lexx, but they didn't tend to have the same fascination with structure that Buffy has. (And I'm exclusively talking about the way that American genre television cracked the 22 episode structure; anime, for instance, did a lot with pre-planned hyper-serialised four-act structures waaaay earlier, with stuff like Evangelion).
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Mar 19, 2022 23:05
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X-files kind of "proved" that TV could be as engrossing and creative as film. And for good reason, since the average cost of an XFiles episode was way more than was usually spent. And as OSI mentioned above, they weren't pathological frightened that some goober would turn in and go "wtf is all this going on!"
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Mar 19, 2022 23:19
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Open Source Idiom posted:The X-files has a starker divide between episodes that perpetuate the arc and those that don't -- that the serialization is persistent is important, but not unique to serialised television at the time. Xena, Hercules, Deep Space Nine, Twin Peaks, etc. were all experimenting with serialization, and tend to have a similar interest in persistent continuity that The X-Files did, but really only in select episodes (or sprints of episodes). It was an American TV show but the one I recall that really cracked serialization was Wiseguy. The first arc is a 9-10 episode series centering around infiltrating Sonny Steelgrave's (Ray Sharkey) mob. Then there's a 12 episode arc around infiltrating the organization of Mel Profitt (Kevin Spacey) and Susan Profitt (Joan Severance) with Roger Lococco (William Russ) as their main enforcer. That arc kind of broke me a little because whenever "Boy Meets World" came on, I kept expecting Alan to lose it, stand Cory up to a wall and toss ball bearings near his head.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:28
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Everyone posted:I've read the Dresden Files up Book 17. I generally like the books.... but. But Butcher, especially up to Book 15 has a tendency to objectify women in the books. And I don't really want to get into the White Court Vampires. Like I said, I generally like the books, but I'm a 53 year old straight white male, so there's a lot of stuff that I'm maybe a little more predisposed to either excuse or not notice in the first place. Butcher's world-building is pretty top notch and honestly the whole series reads a lot like a pictureless superhero comic in a good way. I just kind of wanted to give you something like "fair warning" before you really got into them. Well I'm a 33-year-old white man and I think it all depends on how it's done. If there's not a single strong and well-written women, if the only thing that defines all of them is sex appeal, that's more of a problem for me than objectification itself. Women can be sexy and have sex, that's perfectly fine. They can even be Sex Vampires as the White Council Vamps are from what little I know. There just has to be more going on.
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Mar 20, 2022 04:54
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A topic on r/buffy is making me curious about if I'm remembering something right. Angel had...four Love Interests in Angel, right? 1. Kate, who I remember liking and I think died? I was mad. Alive or dead, she and Angel had falling out. 2. Darla which ended very badly and maybe wasn't really love anyway. Certainly not with Vmp Darla in S2. 3. Cordelia in S4. I hated this , it felt like obligatory "man and girl are main characters, let's pair them up." 4. Nina in S5. Buffy, by contrast, only really had two guys after Angel. Riley and Spike both got two seasons. Somebody on Reddit is just upset Buffy and Angel don't end up together and I was trying to figure out who else they were even with. I almost don't even wanna count Buffy/Spike because it's the worst thing ever.
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Mar 20, 2022 07:50
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NikkolasKing posted:A topic on r/buffy is making me curious about if I'm remembering something right. I don't think Kate should count. They switched gears with her character before that really went anywhere. If you're going to count her you've gotta include Principal Wood on Buffy's side IMO.
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Mar 20, 2022 08:20
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Kate is alive. She was fired from the cops and made amends with Angel when he had his epiphany, then she became a DA in Law & Order.
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Mar 20, 2022 08:23
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Randallteal posted:I don't think Kate should count. They switched gears with her character before that really went anywhere. If you're going to count her you've gotta include Principal Wood on Buffy's side IMO. Randallteal posted:I don't think Kate should count. They switched gears with her character before that really went anywhere. If you're going to count her you've gotta include Principal Wood on Buffy's side IMO. Wasn't Wood with Faith? But fair enough, my memory is obviously very sketchy here.
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Mar 20, 2022 08:30
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:58 |
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NikkolasKing posted:Wasn't Wood with Faith? He dated Buffy for a bit. Buffy also dated Parker, and her ex turns up in Lie To Me.
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Mar 20, 2022 11:56
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