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Zero New Ideas is a VERY interesting term to describe a film that gave us both "No, actually, losing 1/3 of our bombers to take out *one* capship is a VERY VERY STUPID USE OF PEOPLE dipshit" and "lightspeed suicide run". Saw it opening night and you could head a loving pin drop in the theatre during that scene.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:35
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btw the fandom has retroactively decided that the lightspeed ram scene is bad because
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Mar 19, 2022 21:45
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gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:48
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I wouldn't say the concept of kamikaze is very novel. even more abstracted "hero sacrificing themselves to beat the bad guys" is very Saturday morning cartoon. weirdo casino was a cool visual setpiece. "you are not number 1" is a good subversion for SW. Slow speed boat chase is ... certainly a risk. but that movie was quite the outlier compared to the Abrams ones, the death star one and the solo one. I like the solo one best because it was cool little vignettes, some good (Marilyn Maozedong Bot) some great (space ww1) some terrible (everything with woody Harrelson).
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Mar 19, 2022 21:48
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Big Mean Jerk posted:gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead. 
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Mar 19, 2022 21:49
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Big Mean Jerk posted:gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead. It's my third favorite Star War. As I've said in the dedicated SW TV threads, I would dearly love a no bullshit history on how BoBF came together, because it was one loving weird conglomeration of parts.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:08
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Big Mean Jerk posted:gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead. 
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Mar 19, 2022 22:14
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When the lightspeed kamikaze happened in my theater, a lady who sounded exactly like Linda’s sister on Bob’s Burgers said “oh, I can’t hear it!” in a confused, hushed tone in an otherwise dead-silent theater. That has endeared the movie to me considerably.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:18
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Khanstant posted:
Max TV is what SNL wished it could be.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:18
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My one memory of MadTV is watching some episode with my dad on Christmas Eve when I was a kid, while waiting for my mom and sister to get back from church. And you know what, I think that's probably the best a memory of MadTV can be.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:29
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Big Mean Jerk posted:gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead. It’s far from flawless but had so many things I enjoyed 1) the Jedi were bollocks and consistently create their own doom/monsters 2) Your heroes might be kind of poo poo and/or titty drinking pervs 3) sacred bloodlines are crap and even the lowest of the low has potential to be more 4) Plucky naïve heroes have a good chance of loving things up but that doesn’t mean they should stop trying 5) People in power and the wealthy will find a way to profit from war and don’t really care about who is good and bad. They want cash. 6) That lone maverick who never follows orders? Yeah he sucks too and just gets people killed. 7) light speed suicide run looks amazing It was the only one of the sequels that had anything interesting to say. Again it was far from perfect with poo poo like 0 g bombers and giant starships outside of orbit falling like they were in atmo when they got damaged, but at least it attempted to say something not repeated in the previous movies. Then the next movie nuked everything I liked about it. Vitruvian Manic posted:I like the solo one best because it was cool little vignettes, some good (Marilyn Maozedong Bot) some great (space ww1) some terrible (everything with woody Harrelson). I’m not a giant SW fanboi but Solo had some decent things too. I loved the short WW1 esque bit and made me want to watch a 40k show. I enjoyed the heist parts but they did L337 wrong. Donald Golver is a great choice for Lando. Still put that movie below Rogue One but it doesn’t cause convulsions or anything. Still think Clone Wars and Mandalorian are the best thing to come out of SW in general.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:30
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The problem with The Last Jedi isn't that they weren't doing trying anything new. It was that they weren't holding to anything old. Star Wars is a series built on swashbuckling action in a somewhat simplistic world tinged with fun details and sci fi/fantasy tropes. The Last Jedi starts out in the world's least interesting chase populated by newly established characters that who are hollow and largely uninteresting. Lucas adhering his characters to Campbell poo poo at least gave them an intrinsic hook you can hang onto as you move the plot along. There was nothing there for the new characters, Finn is supposed to be an rear end in a top hat I guess but he isn't even an entertaining one, John Boyega's past as a Storm Trooper isn't relevant at all, Rey's path is to be disappointed mirroring the audience I guess, Rose was there. Meta wise it's an interesting case of tearing things down but there wasn't anything built back up. Maybe Rian Johnson didn't get the chance to do that. Also the action and pacing is pretty sleep inducing for a blockbuster. There's an inexplicable unneeded plot line in the middle of it, and the light Saber fighting is some of the worst in the entire series.
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Mar 19, 2022 22:51
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I don’t know which part of that horrible take to focus on first! (it’s the “worst lightsaber fights” part. an insane opinion to hold)
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Mar 19, 2022 22:53
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Shageletic posted:The problem with The Last Jedi isn't that they weren't doing trying anything new. It was that they weren't holding to anything old. Star Wars is a series built on swashbuckling action in a somewhat simplistic world tinged with fun details and sci fi/fantasy tropes. Nah
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Mar 19, 2022 23:09
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There is a lot of good with Last Jedi (especially visually) but also a lot of not as good elements (terrible pacing, around half of the character arcs). Ultimately I think you can tell that Rian Johnson was most interested in the Rey/Kylo/Luke/Snoke storyline and everything else got less attention. But I do think that the fact that the fact that everyone thinks the movie was super transgressive is undermined by the movie itself rejecting most of its criticisms. Luke starts the movie mocking the idea that he's going to go out with a laser sword and save the galaxy and ends up doing just that. Luke starts the movie rejecting the Jedi Order (via criticisms that were already the entire point of the prequel trilogy so weren't even new) but ends assured that the Jedi Order will not only be reborn, it will be reborn via the same holy texts that were the foundation of the old order. Kylo Ren goes through a whole arc about how he's a misunderstood sympathetic victim and ends proving that he actually is just a giant rear end in a top hat big bad villain. Rey gets taught about how being a Jedi has nothing to do with lightsaber fighting and using the Force, and ends up saving the day by lightsaber fighting and using the Force. Oscar Isaac gets scolded for trying to save the resistance by being a single hero doing a singular heroic thing, and then the resistance is saved by Holdo being a single hero doing a heroic thing. Even stuff like the casino planet showing that "good guys" are bad also thanks to capitalism, or that you don't have to be a Skywalker to be a Jedi, are things that have been core aspects of both the prequel trilogy and the EU since the 90s. I like Johnson as a filmmaker and give credit to him and TLJ for being both the only of the Disney movies with an actual message as well as the only one that came closest to an auteur production as possible in the Disney system, and I love the two lightsaber fight scenes, but it's also not without its flaws, and like someone said above it feels like any nuanced discussion of TLJ in particular gets drowned out by either the fanboys who worship it as the greatest movie ever, or the fanboys who think it's Kathleen Kennedy's attempt to sabotage Lucasfilm. I will say that watching it in theater for the first time, halfway through I was convinced that the movie was going to end with Kylo Ren redeemed and with the Resistance and Rey joining the dark side, and if the movie had actually done that I would be willing to overlook all other criticisms of it.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:11
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Shageletic posted:The problem with The Last Jedi isn't that they weren't doing trying anything new. It was that they weren't holding to anything old. Star Wars is a series built on swashbuckling action in a somewhat simplistic world tinged with fun details and sci fi/fantasy tropes. This is a good way of articulating my issues with Jedi. I still like it well enough but this does a good job explaining why it doesn't jive with me. That said it is leagues beyond force awakens and whatever they called the third one (though sith as cenobites was a fun idea that I wish they had done more with).
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Mar 19, 2022 23:12
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Escobarbarian posted:I don’t know which part of that horrible take to focus on first! Watch the last scene of Rey and Kylo against the Knights of Ren or whatever the gently caress. There's a pretty good stunt guy breaking down what's so bad about it. It starts at 4:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL83p4GxAvw
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Mar 19, 2022 23:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:gently caress the fandom, I will defend The Last Jedi until I’m dead. Fandom wars being what they are, this is a genuine possibility. But also same.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:17
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Vitruvian Manic posted:This is a good way of articulating my issues with Jedi. I still like it well enough but this does a good job explaining why it doesn't jive with me. That said it is leagues beyond force awakens and whatever they called the third one (though sith as cenobites was a fun idea that I wish they had done more with). Lol I said all my poo poo without watching the last one. I'm not saying the Last Jedi is the worst Star War. Its interesting and it's a shame it didn't fully complete the circle into being the best one.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:18
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lightsaber fights suck rear end the longer and more flashy they are. just take some loving ecstacy and got to a rave if you like that sort of visual effect.MarcusSA posted:Max TV is what SNL wished it could be. I'm not sure about that, between some sort of contractual obligation to run any character that ever gets a tiny chuckle into the ground and 100% full-force 90s00s repeating-stereotypes-counts-as-jokes humor, I just have to interpret that as a generic "snl sucks" burn. There are countless sketches where the entire punchline is someone is gay or someone gets called gay. That said there are the occasional sketch that just have a funny comedic premise and are fine sketches. There's also glimpses of Key & Peele writing, there was one sketch with the premise "black people have funny names" and the name Peele's character had was 100% the kind of name and escalation of their later NFL player names sketch. I also abstractly like some of the celebrity impressions that no longer resonate, they do a Meg Ryan one and I have no real lasting memory of any of her quirks or what jokes someone would make about her, and their parody of her was very vacuous and insistent on just being ignorantly happy on whatever issue brought up.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:19
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The messaging in The Last Jedi is very sloppy and the ideas are unsophisticated for the director of Knives Out. For the director of The Book of Henry, I could believe, but he never got his chance, on account of The Book of Henry.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:20
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Meg Ryan is happy and has a scrunched up face. Though, nothing is as mean-spirited as their Caroline in the City skit. Ouch
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Mar 19, 2022 23:22
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I don't hold the contradictions in The Last Jedi against Rian Johnson, certainly not if you compare it to his work on Brick or Knives Out. Disney orders reshoots and rewrites on all their properties, particularly if anything spooks the focus groups, and they're very aggressive with their interference. There's a reason Rian Johnson's Disney deal has quietly vanished into the ether, and I don't think it's just down to fan reaction. Edit: Also Disney funnels funds to oppressing gay and trans kids, so gently caress those child abusers, and frankly, gently caress anyone who knows this and still pays for Disney plus.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:24
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Shageletic posted:Lol I said all my poo poo without watching the last one. I'm not saying the Last Jedi is the worst Star War. Its interesting and it's a shame it didn't fully complete the circle into being the best one. big same
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Mar 19, 2022 23:27
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best lightsaber fights in SW: Ben v Maul (rebels) Ben v Vader (star wars)* Luke v Vader (Empire)* Luke v Vader (Jedi) the rest are poo poo so order doesn't matter. *these two are very close and depending on the weather I'm willing to switch them.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:29
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It’s the Bespin duel by a landslide and it’s not even close, primarily because of the incredible lighting in the first half and the fact that I can picture just about every piece of the choreography in my mind. It may honestly be the most memorable set piece in the entire franchise.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:35
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Open Source Idiom posted:Edit: Also Disney funnels funds to oppressing gay and trans kids, so gently caress those child abusers, and frankly, gently caress anyone who knows this and still pays for Disney plus. Is this just that they give donations to every politician running for national office, or is it something worse?
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Mar 19, 2022 23:44
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s the Bespin duel by a landslide and it’s not even close, primarily because of the incredible lighting in the first half and the fact that I can picture just about every piece of the choreography in my mind. yeah but I feel it goes a little over the top sometimes. I like the cleanness of just two men and their blades. hence me vacillating between the two.
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Mar 19, 2022 23:48
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is this just that they give donations to every politician running for national office, or is it something worse? They poured money into the Don't Say Gay bill people, then later claimed they had no idea what they were doing. But that doesn't really match with their behaviour from the last few years, like that leak about them cancelling a Marvel show for being "too gay", telling Pixar to remove queer "affection" from their films, etc. etc. Edit: They're trying to backpedal now their bottom line has the potential of being impacted, but, like, gently caress them. Damage done. https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1504929039554908161 Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 19, 2022 |
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Mar 19, 2022 23:52
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Disney is exclusively pro-cis because they care more about money than ethics and want to sell to China and Russia whose leaders are unrepentant bigots
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Mar 19, 2022 23:58
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Open Source Idiom posted:They poured money into the Don't Say Gay bill people, then later claimed they had no idea what they were doing. But that doesn't really match with their behaviour from the last few years, like that leak about them cancelling a Marvel show for being "too gay", telling Pixar to remove queer "affection" from their films, etc. etc. It's possible that they wanted to tone down the lgbtq stuff in order to make the Chinese market happy, but that probably wasn't the only reason. Disney has enough money to turn Florida into just a poo poo-stained state, instead of a poo poo covered state; if they wanted to.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:02
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Florida runs on tourism and the biggest buck on that lick is Disney. Eli Lilly, a real lovely company in a lot if ways, made Indiana curb a lot of lovely poo poo. Disney is orders of magnitudes more powerful in flordia politics. That said, Luca was gay as hell and my favorite Pixar movie.
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Mar 20, 2022 00:18
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Arist posted:btw the fandom has retroactively decided that the lightspeed ram scene is bad because It's bad because it makes no sense that people aren't doing that poo poo all the time since it's a thing that's possible apparently. Both factions would absolutely have fanatics or people desperate enough to volunteer. Chairman Capone posted:There is a lot of good with Last Jedi (especially visually) but also a lot of not as good elements (terrible pacing, around half of the character arcs). Ultimately I think you can tell that Rian Johnson was most interested in the Rey/Kylo/Luke/Snoke storyline and everything else got less attention. But I do think that the fact that the fact that everyone thinks the movie was super transgressive is undermined by the movie itself rejecting most of its criticisms. 
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Mar 20, 2022 00:39
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It's bad because it makes no sense that people aren't doing that poo poo all the time since it's a thing that's possible apparently. Both factions would absolutely have fanatics or people desperate enough to volunteer. Imagine caring about this Like, seriously, couldn't be me
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Mar 20, 2022 00:53
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Is It Cake? is exactly my type of dumbass cooking competition poo poo, I feel targeted
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Mar 20, 2022 01:04
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The restaurant conversation between Stede and Blackbeard was very cute.
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Mar 20, 2022 01:27
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Arist posted:Imagine caring about this If the climax of your movie makes zero sense, and makes every other movie in the series make zero sense, you should probably rewrite the scene.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:08
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muscles like this! posted:The restaurant conversation between Stede and Blackbeard was very cute. Yeah, I've come around to really like Our Flag Means Death. It's very chill, but the character stuff is strong.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:21
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It says a lot of a movie if it’s original idea is just adding light speed to this guys death scene. 
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Mar 20, 2022 02:34
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Gaius Marius posted:If the climax of your movie makes zero sense, and makes every other movie in the series make zero sense, you should probably rewrite the scene. This is a fundamentally backwards way of looking at storytelling. It's a good moment because it made me feel things, any attempt to strip it of meaning because of the logic of the universe is grognard horseshit. The scene makes perfect sense, and I also don't need some idiotic overexplanation or justification for future non-use of it because who cares?????? Even Rise of Skywalker understood this, because they just basically went "wouldn't work if they're expecting it" and that's a FINE justification for why you can't do it again!
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Mar 20, 2022 02:35
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