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i like it when the rats roll around in a big wheel and hit a dinosaur with their magic lightning pew pew
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Mar 21, 2022 14:11
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:32 |
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Enjoying my first campaign and first time doing anything with Kislev, totally blind to almost everything about them other than expecting never ending hellfire. Things actually went really well, my neighbors on the east and west stabilized and are my buddies, finished krumping the Kislevites you start at war with and even got to siege Pragg for 6 turns after the rift announcement because they took 9 turns to spawn, very nice. Did Realm of Tzeentch at a casual pace and even threw Ku'gath and Kairos out of it. Funny to play a ranged heavy army after Ogre and Khorne playthroughs. Came back and I see Skrag expanding from the southwest and that Demon Prince has razed 75% of everything to the west past my buffer neighbor. So much for escaping the feeling that everything is on fire constantly in my winter wonderland game... Surprised how fun the tempest witch you get from the starter quest is in Katt's army. Went from "I only need one caster but it beats an empty slot" to "HAHAHA I AM CASTING SPELLS TWICE AS FAST HERE'S A 3 AOE gently caress YOU CHAOS HIPPITY HOPPITY GET OFF MY FROZEN PROPERTY!"
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Mar 21, 2022 14:17
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Cranappleberry posted:This is an insane way to think about a streamer/video maker you do not even have to watch. LegendofTotalWar must be stopped by any means.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:19
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To defeat LegendOfTotalWar you must become LegendOfTotalWar, as the prophecy foretold
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Mar 21, 2022 14:20
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as an old gamer it feels as if everybody has gotten weird about difficulty in games this last decade but also everybody has gotten weird about every single thing in this world so maybe that's part of getting old or everybody getting weird
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Mar 21, 2022 14:35
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Lol that video, I'm glad nobody films my cranky tantrums. He's really upset I guess it must be annoying if CA made out that they'd listen to feedback before the game came out but that really isn't how AAA game dev works, you release what you can and then fix it later
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Mar 21, 2022 14:40
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Twigand Berries posted:as an old gamer it feels as if everybody has gotten weird about difficulty in games this last decade but also everybody has gotten weird about every single thing in this world so maybe that's part of getting old It's just the vocal minority again. Guarantee their stats show "oh yeah, most people played x amount of hours" and they're probably fine with it. Listening to forums is always the most passionate (You can replace that word with whatever suits you) fans word over everyone elses because they just shout down whoever goes "hey i'm having fun". Everyone i've shown the new patch to who played this game and moved on (like they do with every game) said "oh that's cool, i'll reinstall for it" so they're on the right path, imo. E: And honestly i'd rather the dev's didn't listen to lifers for game balance advice, that's how you get weird "Anti-Beagle" game design.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:59
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Communist Thoughts posted:Lol that video, I'm glad nobody films my cranky tantrums. He's really upset It's not just LegendofTotalWar, he is just the most vocal and whiny about it. Other content creators warned CA that there were a ton of bugs, that it was clear that it hadn't been playtested enough, that some of the mechanics were unfun/punishing for no reason and that some changes they made (especially to mass and knockdownability of infantry) were outright bad or broken in the other direction. People who bought the game stopped playing really quickly comparable to the last few titles. It doesn't mean people won't come back or the game will be foreverbad. But it's something that was pretty obvious to those closest to the game.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:00
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Third World Reagan posted:The game has a difficulty slider. Why are you maxing it out? If they made one more notch that made it so your hero would die in one hit, called it extreme, he would be on it because it is how far the slider goes. b-b-but my gamer cred!! in my singleplayer game!!!!!
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Mar 21, 2022 15:11
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i like it when the rats roll around in a big wheel and hit a dinosaur with their magic lightning pew pew
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Mar 21, 2022 15:13
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I like pressing quote instead of edit too
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Mar 21, 2022 15:13
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i like it when the rats roll around in a big wheel and hit a dinosaur with their magic lightning pew pew I just started a new Ikkit Claw campaign and took Itza at around turn 20. It was very harrowing since i didnt have my starting capitol upgraded yet so my only army was mostly clanrats with the starting ratling and jezails versus a pretty high tier lizardman stack Managed to barely pull through mainly due to my starting nuke and Ikkit spamming the gently caress out of warp lightning. The jezails were very helpful in taking out the SEM as well. Very fun fight, cant wait until i get my war crimes stack up and running
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Mar 21, 2022 15:21
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Cranappleberry posted:It's not just LegendofTotalWar, he is just the most vocal and whiny about it. Other content creators warned CA that there were a ton of bugs, that it was clear that it hadn't been playtested enough, that some of the mechanics were unfun/punishing for no reason and that some changes they made (especially to mass and knockdownability of infantry) were outright bad or broken in the other direction. yeah i mean i keep thinking "i'll play some total war" then ehhh
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Mar 21, 2022 15:27
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the game is kinda trash for sure but i also think total warhammer fatigue must be setting in for a lot of people. it definitely is for me. at a certain point there's no challenge to be found in normal difficulty, and bumping it up makes the game way too annoying to be fun. the ai is still massively poo poo. it still takes way too long to get the cool units. all the same problems in three consecutive games and they are either too difficult or too costly to fix. a bunch of new problems along with it. they still haven't figured out a way to make a 3D map that works better than the board game approach from the older titles. etc and so forth.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:40
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They should put the fort building mechanic back in.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:44
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Foul Fowl posted:the game is kinda trash for sure but i also think total warhammer fatigue must be setting in for a lot of people. it definitely is for me. at a certain point there's no challenge to be found in normal difficulty, and bumping it up makes the game way too annoying to be fun. the ai is still massively poo poo. it still takes way too long to get the cool units. all the same problems in three consecutive games and they are either too difficult or too costly to fix. a bunch of new problems along with it. they still haven't figured out a way to make a 3D map that works better than the board game approach from the older titles. etc and so forth.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:45
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i mean just imagine how much better this game would be if the campaign map was just a bunch of provinces, you could move one province a turn, that's it. no more whack a mole, guessing if the last 3% of your movement is enough to get you somewhere, etc. etc. it would cut out so much of the time wasted fiddling with movement and watching the AI with absolutely nothing of value lost.
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Mar 21, 2022 15:48
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I like cavalry despite it being SuBoPtImAl but holy poo poo does it suck during sieges and settlements. There's no room to maneouver and you get stuck on everything
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Mar 21, 2022 16:00
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Started first Cathay playthrough - and I’m really digging the caravan fights. Small random army versus small random army with progressive fights altering army composition- this entire mechanic should be a standalone campaign. Way more fun than constantly fighting full stacks.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:03
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Collapsing Farts posted:I like cavalry despite it being SuBoPtImAl but holy poo poo does it suck during sieges and settlements. There's no room to maneouver and you get stuck on everything Yeah they’d probably be better served being given an option to step off the horse to be reclassified as infantry with +10 MA/MD or some poo poo so they’re useful in a siege. Usually I just send them out to die in front of the towers so they can help the towers nab some more kills.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:11
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Foul Fowl posted:i mean just imagine how much better this game would be if the campaign map was just a bunch of provinces, you could move one province a turn, that's it. no more whack a mole, guessing if the last 3% of your movement is enough to get you somewhere, etc. etc. it would cut out so much of the time wasted fiddling with movement and watching the AI with absolutely nothing of value lost.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:24
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Kanos posted:This is literally it. It's not a matter of loving ranged and hating melee, it's that the difficulty mods in TWW2 made it if you played on VH or Legendary, melee troops horribly underperformed against enemy melee unless you were at a huge tech advantage, whereas ranged units suffered pretty much no penalties and were working at 100% performance. He uses melee if that's better but he prefers ranged in a vacuum, pretty sure it came up in some stream prelaunch. dogstile posted:"i loving hate this game, i'm going to keep playing it forever" is still extremely loving weird. Its extra weird too, seeing as he's indicated that he doesn't need to do this to live. He's stopped streaming because he doesn't like the Realms of Chaos, but has kept doing disaster battles because he still likes the game when he doesn't have to engage with the campaign mechanics. I don't see what's so weird about that.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:25
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Collapsing Farts posted:I like cavalry despite it being SuBoPtImAl but holy poo poo does it suck during sieges and settlements. There's no room to maneouver and you get stuck on everything AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Yeah this is a really good point. I was excited for the QoL fixes but there are still poor design decisions all over the place and I've played enough TW, tolerating dumb poo poo the whole time because CA is glacially slow at addressing some issues, that I have a really low tolerance for the same poo poo still being either broken, tedious, or obnoxious. TWWH2 could get a lot fixed with mods and I'm hoping 3 can do the same, but its insane to me that the minor settlement battles got released as is, because they overcomplicate things to a massive degree and are not fun at all. I know some people enjoy them but even people I saw saying that they were a nice change of pace are now starting to say "yeah gently caress this". cav isn't necessarily suboptimal (besides in sieges) with the mass and infantry knockdownability changes in TWWH3. I worry how weak infantry-heavy factions are and are going to be once the older factions are added back in. Even the dwarves, with their mass increase from late in the TWWH2 cycle, are going to be decimated by monstrous infantry/cav and spells that do heavy knockdown. Ogres are OP right now both in single player and multiplayer, nevermind that they also get a few powerful doomstacks. sieges, however... I kinda called it before the game was released that minor settlement sieges looked novel because they were new, but due to changes with autoresolve (meaning you have to fight basically every siege battle even against a crappy army) and the way they changed sieges, it would become even more tedious than it already was. I didn't call troops getting stuck on everything, nor having walls actually being a negative (because it requires you to defend two points instead of just one and if you lose one, you lose), which made it even worse. You'd think they'd have seen this stuff in testing. There are some obvious quality of life changes or add-ons (like saving control groups or skill respec) that are no-brainers that STILL haven't been added. I'm not desperate for them because I can live without control groups and can plan out where I want my skill points allocated but it's not like they're difficult. AI changes are probably the most difficult thing to do. Not every game can have Doom Eternal's AI team and their amazing difficulty changes. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 16:31
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dogstile posted:E: And honestly i'd rather the dev's didn't listen to lifers for game balance advice, that's how you get weird "Anti-Beagle" game design. Can you elaborate on what "anti-beagle" game design is? I sense a funny story and can't find anything obvious through google. I'm massively enjoying the game, especially doing a co op campaign with a friend. I can see where people are getting annoyed but I don't see how they're getting annoyed enough to stop playing.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:34
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dogstile posted:It's just the vocal minority again. Guarantee their stats show "oh yeah, most people played x amount of hours" and they're probably fine with it. Listening to forums is always the most passionate (You can replace that word with whatever suits you) fans word over everyone elses because they just shout down whoever goes "hey i'm having fun". If anyone wants to see what happens when forum grognards dictate game design, look at Elite Dangerous. The game was always grindy, but the grogs on the forums have pretty much always actively advocated for things that amplify the grind... usually after the developer fixes an exploit that the grogs were abusing to alleviate the grind. Big "gently caress you, got mine" energy, where they wantonly abuse any and every advantage and then actively seek to undermine anyone else benefitting from anything. I suspect the falloff in people playing WH3 is due not just to the mechanics being... questionable, but also to it being released in the midst of Elden Ring, Horizon, and about a billion other things. I don't doubt that patches and the IE release will bring those numbers back up. WH2 hit its concurrent player peak like two years after its release.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:36
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risk map is bad imo because varying terrain types are part of what makes fighting in different areas interesting, it's the defining feature of a dwarf game, for example, where the mountains are easier to defend because of their narrow passes while the badlands are open and require heavy fortification of all settlements.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:39
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Carcer posted:Can you elaborate on what "anti-beagle" game design is? I sense a funny story and can't find anything obvious through google. Oh yeah, absolutely. Xcom had a goon streamer, Beagle. Now Beagle was really good at Xcom and kept breaking it over his knee, doing things like overwatch creeping and other strats to beat the game on the hardest difficulties. This lead to the designers looking at this and adding incentives (in xcom 1, it was called meld, a resource that would expire if you didn't get to it fast enough). Xcom 2 rolled around and meld hadn't made a change in how people played, which was due to you getting it if you cleared the map early enough (which would happen often enough because sometimes enemies would patrol near spawn and you don't have to clear the map, just the enemies) and the bonuses not being good enough to justify the risk. Instead of doing that, they gave a conceal mechanic and gave almost every mission a "timer" to make people move faster. I don't particularly mind this, but I do miss being able to take things at my own pace occasionally. The conceal mechanic is cool, enemies patrol on their turn and you can try to set up and do an ambush once per mission. Beagle noticed that if the enemies saw you, they'd move to cover and you'd play another turn. He ended up playing every level by setting up an "overwatch trap" (which is a held fire turn, you fire at enemies who move during their turn in that units sightlines) and then placing a unit purposely out of cover to trigger it. He'd then effectively get two turns of fire, one via the overwatch trap and then one normal turn. The dev's saw this and added a "enemies might randomly fire at your trooper mechanic" to discourage this, but considering this is xcom, that means being out of cover opens you up to incredibly easy shots/crits. This basically means on higher difficulties than easy you can't make that mistake, because the likelyhood is they're just going to kill a dude in one turn. It's just an exercise in making the game harder for the general public because one dude is trying to play the game and break it as hard as he possibly can, whereas the vast majority of people will never do that.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:48
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OwlFancier posted:risk map is bad imo because varying terrain types are part of what makes fighting in different areas interesting, it's the defining feature of a dwarf game, for example, where the mountains are easier to defend because of their narrow passes while the badlands are open and require heavy fortification of all settlements. why wouldn't this work with a risk map if you just made the provinces follow that general logic? just have a mountain pass province separating the mountains from the badlands, maybe with good defensive terrain. maybe certain provinces let the defending owner pre-deploy or get some kind of benefit. have the badlands connect within and without itself in lots of different ways, and big provinces so you could easily move across it. also this way each province could have its own distinct battlefield which would be cool.
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Mar 21, 2022 16:59
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OwlFancier posted:risk map is bad imo because varying terrain types are part of what makes fighting in different areas interesting, it's the defining feature of a dwarf game, for example, where the mountains are easier to defend because of their narrow passes while the badlands are open and require heavy fortification of all settlements. You say this and yet your primary enemy in dwarf games has a movement ability that lets them ignore 3d map terrain entirely.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:03
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Vagabong posted:You say this and yet your primary enemy in dwarf games has a movement ability that lets them ignore 3d map terrain entirely. Underway was a mistake
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Mar 21, 2022 17:09
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Vagabong posted:You say this and yet your primary enemy in dwarf games has a movement ability that lets them ignore 3d map terrain entirely. And that makes them a priority to deal with, but even then you want to try to manage who else you are at war with. Skaven and orcs do have that ability (and I think the game would be better if it worked differently for all factions tbh) and it still matters even for underway factions, because they can't attack directly from it and are more likely to trigger ambushes trying to underway move. For warhammer 3, if it is easier, you have a very strong geographical element with both cathay and kislev where you are looking to secure the entry to your bit of the map. It is hampered by the lovely campaign obviously but kislev certainly would benefit from either establishing a buffer state in, or capturing the mountains to the east and securing the northern passes at hell pit and near the goromadny. If you try to fight the enemy on open ground in kislev proper that's a lot harder than being able to intercept them at the entry points. Another option perhaps is the empire, where they want to use the mountains to try and contain attacks from the west and south while you try to unify, very different defending those fronts than trying to defend the northern coast.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:10
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OwlFancier posted:risk map is bad imo because varying terrain types are part of what makes fighting in different areas interesting, it's the defining feature of a dwarf game, for example, where the mountains are easier to defend because of their narrow passes while the badlands are open and require heavy fortification of all settlements.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:10
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Cranappleberry posted:sieges, however... I kinda called it before the game was released that minor settlement sieges looked novel because they were new, but due to changes with autoresolve (meaning you have to fight basically every siege battle even against a crappy army) and the way they changed sieges, it would become even more tedious than it already was. I didn't call troops getting stuck on everything, nor having walls actually being a negative (because it requires you to defend two points instead of just one and if you lose one, you lose), which made it even worse. You'd think they'd have seen this stuff in testing. I keep hearing this "walls make your settlement" weaker point but I've never seen it myself. There are several siege maps, walled or unwalled, where I can use a smaller force to hold 1 of up to 5 points and pull off a victory. The AI separates to take the other points from 2-3 angles, which is smart for a player or an AI, but I maximize my stalling at the one point to guarantee my towers won't go down and can shoot the enemy for the longest period of time. Holding more points would let me have more towers up simultaneously... if I could guarantee I could hold those points in the time it takes to get the supplies and then to spend time constructing them plus the time it takes them to put out meaningful damage. So I just hold the one if the going is tough. I've also not seen any map where "you lose one, you lose", even major cities where I cap their central point early. Meaningful buffs/debuffs, sure, but it takes a significant amount of effort to get the WH2 style "cap this point and sit on it and win the game in 2 minutes" scenario. Virtually every siege battle I'm in fights to traditional army losses and point control dictates how many towers are shooting me or them, as well as the Momentum buff for attackers. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:There are reasons why a new risk map might not be the best. This is not one of them. Agree to disagree. A map where every terrain type is identical sounds very dull to me for the type of game WH is with magical terrain and dangerous places. I also appreciate that there are considerations to make for things like water travel.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:13
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I genuinely have never had a complaint with the move to the fully simulated map and I didn't enjoy the risk map at all. It's just a perfectly sensible way, I think, to simulate varying types of terrain at the strategic level and I think if you tried to make a risk type map that does the same thing you would just end up creating basically the same thing but less readable.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:23
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the 3d map is cool but the amount of jank and fiddly clicking and percentages of movement and amount of actors on the map is, to me, not enjoyable. i'd happily take an abstracted approach to terrain to get rid of all that stuff but that is never going to happen in ten million years.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:33
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I'd prefer to just take a settlement type system. You can move from one settlement "area" to another settlement type "area" and if two armies are in there you fight. You can add a couple of things to this to make it more interesting, i guess but it'd cut down on the "hey, the enemy has moved 101% out of my range" poo poo. I have no idea if it'd work but i'd like to try it. Maybe in a saga series or smth.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:42
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Yeah, I preferred the Risk-style maps from the earlier games much more. Far fewer "You lost this settlement without a chance to fight for it" situations came up, since the avenues for enemies to attack from were fewer and obvious. Total War games should definitely lean towards, "Here's an epic battle, and here are your rewards for winning it" rather than "Run around the enemy army to attack this garrison that's so small it cannot win"
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Mar 21, 2022 17:43
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Got to remember not to buy these games in early access, wait for the launch if you don’t want it to be so unfinished.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:45
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I love maneuvering the camera around Faugun, Faugun, and Jahred Bulgepolisher's big asses to try and click the correct piece of ground.
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Mar 21, 2022 17:50
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:32 |
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Risk maps also reduce the weirdness of full armies operating entirely without supply lines and put the emphasis back on the battlefield I think. E: you could create mountain-travel-only risk map regions as well, make them long and thin and bordering several provinces to create a faster mode of travel for the various races that underway that also lets them retreat to safety. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 18:09
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