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Rascar Capac posted:For some reason I can only imagine this being delivered by an 18th century philosopher. Like powdered wig, stockings, the lot. I was picturing a goth middle schooler
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Mar 22, 2022 18:06
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They'd better be rescuing a dog down there.Admiral Joeslop posted:https://i.imgur.com/jSTJKQx.mp4 Edit: and that's already ignoring that you should be using the miter sled instead of the fence if the workpiece is wider than it is long. Cat Hatter fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 18:09
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AFewBricksShy posted:The fact that it looks like it's a little bit spacious in there by the end takes a little bit away from the "gently caress NO"-ness of it, but on the other hand gently caress No. They way everyone is chilling and how much larger a lot of them are, I'm guessing there's a more normal entrance right outside of the camera view and this lady is just showing off.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:15
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Admiral Joeslop posted:https://i.imgur.com/jSTJKQx.mp4 So what exactly is that thing? I can't see any comments on imgur, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some failure mode on table saws that somehow requires what it sounds like (an expensive way to stop the blade one time) or what.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:17
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Captain Hygiene posted:So what exactly is that thing? I can't see any comments on imgur, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some failure mode on table saws that somehow requires what it sounds like (an expensive way to stop the blade one time) or what. https://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology/
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Mar 22, 2022 18:19
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Captain Hygiene posted:So what exactly is that thing? I can't see any comments on imgur, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some failure mode on table saws that somehow requires what it sounds like (an expensive way to stop the blade one time) or what. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SawStop
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Mar 22, 2022 18:19
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Captain Hygiene posted:So what exactly is that thing? I can't see any comments on imgur, and I'm trying to figure out if there's some failure mode on table saws that somehow requires what it sounds like (an expensive way to stop the blade one time) or what. Saw stop, designed to keep idiots from cutting fingers off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOReKxH5NlA
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Mar 22, 2022 18:20
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Gotcha, that makes sense. The phrasing threw me off in a slightly different direction for what I was picturing.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:23
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The failure mode for a table saw is you cut off your finger, or worse. 100 bucks and a new saw blade is pretty loving cheap compared to losing a finger. The obvious thing that he did wrong was reach over the blade to grab the part, but he also started out doing it wrong by cutting the piece in that way. When you are cutting a thin strip off of a larger piece, the thin strip should be on the outside of the saw blade, with the large piece up against the fence. That way the thin piece falls away after it's cut. The way he's doing it, the thin piece will get jammed between the fence and the blade. Usually that just means that it catapults the piece back at your face, but the offcut also can get stuck in place, and that tempts idiots to reach in to try to unstick it. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 18:26
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I’ve read those are in wide use at high school shop classes, which makes sense. But do they tell the kids about it? Because it seems like that would just make them want to test it.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:28
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They can be a bit over sensitive though. I had a blade drop because of a bead of sweat.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:28
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Sagebrush posted:The failure mode for a table saw is you cut off your finger, or worse. Yeah, that makes good sense. The video was blurry enough that I thought the implication was that he was using some separate device to manually stop it, and then just stupidly touching the blade for some reason after he thought it was slowed down enough. Just a misunderstanding at the start making me go off in the wrong direction thinking about mechanical failures.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:29
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Uncleanly Cleric posted:They can be a bit over sensitive though. I had a blade drop because of a bead of sweat. How? I've seen people take visibly wet wood through one and not have it trigger.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:34
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Cat Hatter posted:How? I've seen people take visibly wet wood through one and not have it trigger. Honestly? I have no idea. I was no where near the blade and was in fact moving to turn the thing off. Sweat hit the sensor, and snap. There's a whole thing on their support forum about false stops, which is why they want you to describe what happened and send in the cart, so they can figure out why and tune them.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:39
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A little OSHA-ing from my job at Amazon: Machine is locked out and everything, but I just had to get a picture when the dude started to crawl in it. Maintenance were getting sick and tired of this packing machine's poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:40
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It'll be interesting when the SawStop patents expire, and someone can maybe produces something that just retracts the blade—instead of one that stops it, retracts it, and costs you $100.
mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 18:40
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:I’ve read those are in wide use at high school shop classes, which makes sense. But do they tell the kids about it? Because it seems like that would just make them want to test it. The table saw in my university shop is a SawStop, and yes we tell the students about it. Fortunately they are (so far) mature enough to not try to touch it for fun. It absolutely can still cut you in the fraction of a second it takes for the brake to engage, so if you did something stupid like slam your hand down on the blade to show off, it would probably still rip a big gash in your palm. In 10 years we've had it activate three times. Twice were due to material properties; the saw detects that it's touching flesh with an electrical system, and that also responds to more conductive materials. One time it fired when a student tried to cut a chunk of mirrored plastic (metal coating), and another time when someone was steam bending wood and put it right on the table saw before all the water had evaporated out of it. The third time was a genuine accident caused by a student who did something really stupid, and said afterwards he was tired and hungry and not thinking straight. He still ended up with a nice clean slice down the middle of his thumb, but not deep enough to require stitches, and without the SawStop it probably would have torn his thumb right off. Cat Hatter posted:How? I've seen people take visibly wet wood through one and not have it trigger. There is a bypass mode you can put it in if you have to cut something that is electrically conductive. It requires a special key and procedure to activate because it's just entirely disabling the safety features.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:41
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Sagebrush posted:The failure mode for a table saw is you cut off your finger, or worse. I'm no woodfuckler but isn't that piece far too short in the direction of the cut and far to wide the other way to be handled on a tablesaw without a sled?
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Mar 22, 2022 18:42
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Admiral Joeslop posted:https://i.imgur.com/jSTJKQx.mp4 I bought one of those SawStops from Craigslist for $800 in mint condition and it came with like 5 of those stoppers... I haven't blown one yet but I'm a scatterbrain so I'm glad I have em. On top of the digit protection, it's just a really nice and accurate feeling table saw with some good features.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:47
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:It'll be interesting when the SawStop patents expire, and someone can maybe produces something that just retracts the blade—instead of one that stops it, retracts it, and costs you $100. Impossible. There is no technology on the planet that can stop a blade like that dead in microseconds without damaging or destroying some part of the system. It's like saying "maybe someday they'll invent an airbag that can just be deflated and reused instead of having to be totally replaced." That's not how the engineering works. The stopping and retraction are not separate processes either. In the SawStop system, the brake cartridge is released into the bottom of the blade, that jams it and brings it to a halt, and the blade's inertia swings it down under the table and locks it in place. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 18:48
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Sagebrush posted:The table saw in my university shop is a SawStop, and yes we tell the students about it. Fortunately they are (so far) mature enough to not try to touch it for fun. It absolutely can still cut you in the fraction of a second it takes for the brake to engage, so if you did something stupid like slam your hand down on the blade to show off, it would probably still rip a big gash in your palm. Too bad they didn't have SawStops when my uncle was a shop teacher. While doing a demo similar to the above video to show students what would go wrong, he managed to take the tip of his middle finger clean off. Still has a stub-nub with no fingernail.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:51
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The amount of energy in the spinning blade means that any attempt to stop it that quick is going to destroy something.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:51
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Butterwagon posted:I'm no woodfuckler but isn't that piece far too short in the direction of the cut and far to wide the other way to be handled on a tablesaw without a sled? I would definitely have it on a sled, yes, in addition to cutting it the other way. Like I know exactly what he's doing because I've been tempted to do it too. Oh, I need a bunch of slices of this block that are exactly the same width; I'll just set the fence to that depth and run one pass after another until the block is gone! Easy and no extra setup required! Except it's really stupid for the aforementioned reasons, and there are other ways to make the cut that are a little more involved but much safer. The table saw isn't really even the right tool for something like that. I would use a miter saw with a couple of work stops. Just as fast and much safer.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:52
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Sagebrush posted:Impossible. There is no technology on the planet that can stop a blade like that dead in microseconds without damaging or destroying some part of the system. It's like saying "maybe someday they'll invent an airbag that can just be deflated and reused instead of having to be totally replaced." That's not how the engineering works. Ah, you're right.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:53
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Sagebrush posted:Impossible. There is no technology on the planet that can stop a blade like that dead in microseconds without damaging or destroying some part of the system. It's like saying "maybe someday they'll invent an airbag that can just be deflated and reused instead of having to be totally replaced." Yeah the airbag analogy is especially appropriate because it uses the same kind of pyrotechnic to stop the blade. If you tried to preserve the blade by dropping it downwards at pyrotechnic speeds, it would probably break apart and turn the sawblade into a weapon from Unreal Tournament.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:53
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Yeah a decent chunk of the cost here is probably the blade, those get pricey.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:53
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Uncleanly Cleric posted:Honestly? I have no idea. I was no where near the blade and was in fact moving to turn the thing off. Sweat hit the sensor, and snap. I believe the blade is the sensor on a SawStop, so if you mess with its electrical potential / capacitance, the saw becomes upset and commits hara kiri.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:55
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Karate Bastard posted:I believe the blade is the sensor on a SawStop, so if you mess with its electrical potential / capacitance, the saw becomes upset and commits hara kiri. That'd do it, he said in his best southern workshop voice.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:59
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Anyway back in high school I took a shop class. We got a video explanation of the SawStop one Friday. Come Monday, teach comes in with a cast on his hand because his home saw didn't have a SawStop. Nearly lost two fingers. Great learning experience for the class, let me tell you.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:59
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Zero VGS posted:Yeah the airbag analogy is especially appropriate because it uses the same kind of pyrotechnic to stop the blade. Only the earliest SawStops used the pyrotechnic system (literally a .38 blank cartridge). All of the current models have the brake block attached to a tremendously strong spring that's held in compression with a wire. There is a big capacitor in the brake cartridge that charges up when you turn on the machine, and you can't start the motor until it's fully charged. When the system activates, the capacitor discharges into the wire and blows it up, releasing the spring, forcing the brake block into the blade. Apparently this electrical method is faster and more predictable than the pyrotechnic system.
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Mar 22, 2022 19:00
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Sagebrush posted:Impossible. There is no technology on the planet that can stop a blade like that dead in microseconds without damaging or destroying some part of the system. It's like saying "maybe someday they'll invent an airbag that can just be deflated and reused instead of having to be totally replaced." That's not how the engineering works. Felder has a system that uses magnets instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-cRzYXY_3c
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Mar 22, 2022 19:01
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Sagebrush posted:Only the earliest SawStops used the pyrotechnic system (literally a .38 blank cartridge). All of the current models have the brake block attached to a tremendously strong spring that's held in compression with a wire. There is a big capacitor in the brake cartridge that charges up when you turn on the machine, and you can't start the motor until it's fully charged. When the system activates, the capacitor discharges into the wire and blows it up, releasing the spring, forcing the brake block into the blade. Apparently this electrical method is faster and more predictable than the pyrotechnic system. ...So the modern SawStop is basically a fuse, then?
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Mar 22, 2022 19:03
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FuturePastNow posted:I want to die in my sleep like my grandpa, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.  Probably one of the best posts I've read in a while.
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Mar 22, 2022 19:04
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Ablative posted:...So the modern SawStop is basically a fuse, then? Kind of. A fuse is designed to interrupt electrical current, and in this case the wire is only used for its mechanical properties. Fuses can also take some time to blow, melting or burning out in different ways depending on how much current goes through, while in this case they deliberately run so much current through the wire that it just explodes into vapor, guaranteeing instant separation. But yeah, it's a similar idea
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Mar 22, 2022 19:08
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Sagebrush posted:Kind of. A fuse is designed to interrupt electrical current, and in this case the wire is only used for its mechanical properties. Fuses can also take some time to blow, melting or burning out in different ways depending on how much current goes through, while in this case they deliberately run so much current through the wire that it just explodes into vapor, guaranteeing instant separation. Yeah, there's a variety of fuses out there. 
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Mar 22, 2022 19:10
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Platystemon posted:This is the most Australian video I have ever seen. not anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dstd6brD9y8
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Mar 22, 2022 19:13
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Ablative posted:Anyway back in high school I took a shop class. We got a video explanation of the SawStop one Friday. Now that's marketing!
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Mar 22, 2022 19:20
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Sagebrush posted:... mom and dad fight a lot posted:It'll be interesting when the SawStop patents expire, and someone can maybe produces something that just retracts the blade—instead of one that stops it, retracts it, and costs you $100.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:06
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Sagebrush posted:Impossible. There is no technology on the planet that can stop a blade like that dead in microseconds without damaging or destroying some part of the system. It's like saying "maybe someday they'll invent an airbag that can just be deflated and reused instead of having to be totally replaced." That's not how the engineering works. You can retract the blade without stopping it. Bosch had a system that did that, but it violated SawStop's patents for detecting fingers. The Bosch system would cut you more since it didn't stop the blade, but would still prevent serious damage and amputations.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:09
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Wouldn't that also drag you down to the blade in case it snagged some clothing?
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Mar 22, 2022 20:11
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