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A lot of Bat-media has him taking a two pronged approach to stopping crime where Batman catches criminals while Bruce Wayne funds organizations to try and stop them from becoming criminals in the first place. It's just that the beating up criminals part is more dynamic so that's what all the stuff focuses on.
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Mar 23, 2022 12:12
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muscles like this! posted:A lot of Bat-media has him taking a two pronged approach to stopping crime where Batman catches criminals while Bruce Wayne funds organizations to try and stop them from becoming criminals in the first place. It's just that the beating up criminals part is more dynamic so that's what all the stuff focuses on. Yea. It depends on the writer, but Batman isn't a fascist. He doesn't kill and his whole goal is to save people. I mean he can't actually win because it's an ongoing comic-but he's also mostly up against super villains. One thing I really like about the new movie is that by the end he realizes beating up street criminals is not the right approach, It's a failing proposition, and at the same time, the wayne foundation has been completely looted while he's been busy playing batman. I really hope there's a sequel with a more positive batman, and maybe a time jump to when there's a bat family and yea you could cherry pick panels to prove the opposite point, but I like these two:  
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Mar 23, 2022 12:31
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Alhazred posted:Isn't this the canonical reason? IIRC the canonical reason is the eagles were forbidden to interfere with the affairs of mortals (the little help they gave was really pushing it, but it was almost entirely repaying Gandalf, an immortal, for his help to them). If they had done something they would've been banished from reality by the gods for even attempting.
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Mar 23, 2022 15:19
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A far more sensible reason is that once the ring is in Mount Doom, the Nazgul are busy clearing out their desks and not patrolling the skies on Fell Beasts searching for tasty eagles.
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Mar 23, 2022 15:25
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The whole goddamn point of the Fellowship was to sneak the ring into Mordor. Sauron is expecting an army, not a few hobbits and their pals. The eagles would have been eaten for lunch.
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Mar 23, 2022 15:32
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Tater Love 
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zakharov posted:The whole goddamn point of the Fellowship was to sneak the ring into Mordor. Sauron is expecting an army, not a few hobbits and their pals. The eagles would have been eaten for lunch. This is what kills me about this conversation every time. WHY did they give it to TWO UNIMPORTANT HOBBITS in the FIRST PLACE? Same reason! Because SAURON (THE GIANT, WORLD-SEEING EYE) ain't looking at them, he's looking at the assembled military forces of middle-earth. Big fuckoff eagles are like sending bombers directly at anti-aircraft artillery and going WTF when it doesn't work
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Mar 23, 2022 15:35
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Also, the Eagles aren't immune to the ring's corruption either. The reason the hobbits are able to bear the ring is because they're so humble and unassuming that the temptation of power can't get any purchase on them. Gandalf could have teleported himself to Mt. Doom and dropped the ring in, but the moment he picked it up he'd pull an Isildur. Boromir picked it up for a hot second and started acting so squirrelly that the rest of the fellowship nearly drew swords. That's assuming you'd hand the ring to an Eagle and not do the hobbit-wrap packaging scheme or whatever. All hail the Dark Bird Lord
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Mar 23, 2022 15:46
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Brawnfire posted:This is what kills me about this conversation every time. WHY did they give it to TWO UNIMPORTANT HOBBITS in the FIRST PLACE? Same reason! Because SAURON (THE GIANT, WORLD-SEEING EYE) ain't looking at them, he's looking at the assembled military forces of middle-earth. Big fuckoff eagles are like sending bombers directly at anti-aircraft artillery and going WTF when it doesn't work And on top of that, the Hobbits still needed A) A guide through Mordor, B) An army on the front door of Mordor to distract all of Mordor, and C) Winning against an abomination against all that is good and pure in Middle-Earth, which is so fearsome that orcs would rather have to deal with the Nazghul than her. Meanwhile, for giant birds, you have both bows and arrows, and giant flying monsters of your own.
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Mar 23, 2022 15:51
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Ambitious Spider posted:Yea. It depends on the writer, but Batman isn't a fascist. One of Frank Miller's many comic crimes is making an incredibly popular book where Batman is almost explicitly a fascist and Superman is a pussy for not grinding the evil under his boot.
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Mar 23, 2022 16:01
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giving the ring to avatars of manwe would make giving it to galadriel look like a good idea.
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Mar 23, 2022 16:09
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Ambitious Spider posted:Yea. It depends on the writer, but Batman isn't a fascist. I like Red Son where he is extremely anarcho-batism to Superman's fascism. Also, worst Batman comic I can think of was where he is caught on camera choking the Joker while he is wheezing that he can't breath so public opinion of Batman tanks. Oh and the after the Joker rightfully takes legal action against Batman for not just what he did to him but for being responsible for a lot of destruction of Gotham's infrastructure he apologizes to Batman cause he was right all along and also Wayne secretly funds construction projects to rebuild so it's all squaresies. MariusLecter has a new favorite as of 19:13 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 16:14
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El Spamo posted:All hail the Dark Bird Lord Now THAT's a Lord of the Rings-esque series I'd watch.
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Mar 23, 2022 16:18
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MariusLecter posted:I like Red Son where he is extremely anarco-batism to Superman's fascism. 
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Mar 23, 2022 16:48
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El Spamo posted:Also, the Eagles aren't immune to the ring's corruption either. The reason the hobbits are able to bear the ring is because they're so humble and unassuming that the temptation of power can't get any purchase on them. Gandalf could have teleported himself to Mt. Doom and dropped the ring in, but the moment he picked it up he'd pull an Isildur. Boromir picked it up for a hot second and started acting so squirrelly that the rest of the fellowship nearly drew swords. If the ring had just offered them cakes. Dumb ring.
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Mar 23, 2022 19:08
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:If the ring had just offered them cakes. Dumb ring. IT actually did in a way. It didn't try to tempt Sam with power, it tempted him with visions of a lavish garden all to himself. It just failed because Sam is a Very Good Boy.
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Mar 23, 2022 19:20
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Red son is hilarious as it’s basically communism bad, monarchy extremely cool? And nerds lapped it up
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Mar 23, 2022 19:24
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BioEnchanted posted:IT actually did in a way. It didn't try to tempt Sam with power, it tempted him with visions of a lavish garden all to himself. It just failed because Sam is a Very Good Boy. Not just that; the Ring tempted him with a huge garden and under-gardeners, because it could only understand power in terms of dominion. But Sam doesn't want dominion; he just wants a garden of his own, and he doesn't want it to be so big that he can employ people to garden for him because he wants it so he can do the gardening. Even with that, though, Sam could not bear the Ring because it wasn't his to bear. When he does pick it up it is only to return it to Frodo. If he had taken it and tried to complete the mission himself, the Ring would have found a way to corrupt him.
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Mar 23, 2022 19:44
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The worst happens, Sauron is resurrected and the first thing he does is just "Alright, that was a close one, but I gotta give it to Sam. 'Can't carry the ring but I can carry you?' Hell of a loophole, well done mate. Just for that, the hobbits live."
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Mar 23, 2022 19:49
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BioEnchanted posted:The worst happens, Sauron is resurrected and the first thing he does is just "Alright, that was a close one, but I gotta give it to Sam. 'Can't carry the ring but I can carry you?' Hell of a loophole, well done mate. Just for that, the hobbits live." Pretty sure the first thing Sauron would do when he's resurrected is demand to know what the gently caress is a Hobbit and how can he scour Middle Earth of them.
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Mar 23, 2022 19:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:Red son is hilarious as it’s basically communism bad, monarchy extremely cool? And nerds lapped it up I mean I look at it as an exploration of how you can take a man who's basically good and make his actions evil and how but for a turn of the wheel we're all capable of being vastly different people and how an instinct to protect and save everyone can turn into paternalism, but I can also see your point, a little bit.
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Mar 23, 2022 20:17
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Red Son is weird because instead of the interesting premise of villainous capitalist Luther and his Legion of Doom against authoritarian communist Superman, you get two super-brilliant authoritarians setting out to prove that the command economy under their control is better. I like the idea we could have had, of supervillains flocking to the US for "freedom" under Luther's administration that could give America a technological/economic advantage at the cost of supervillains running the show, and how a nuclear powered supervillain state could be a very understandable reason for Superman cracking down harder and harder on his own people. But instead, Siwanna becomes a Soviet toady, as Superman and Luther both become mirrored superpowers that various human ants circle around. Socialism, Communism, Capitalism, and Liberalism, none of those matter in any way, it's just the Great Man Hypothesis cranked up to eleven. Had Lex Luther been a Zapatista and Superman been raised by the Emperor of Japan, all you'd change was the costumes as they both used their super-intelligence to make the entire DC universe orbit Mexico City and Tokyo.
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Mar 23, 2022 20:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:Red son is hilarious as it’s basically communism bad, monarchy extremely cool? And nerds lapped it up I'm sure that 90% of the people who praise it never read it, just saw Superman with a hammer and sickle and thought "hell yeah"
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Mar 23, 2022 20:56
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It's been a while since I've read it, maybe I should re-read it and see if my opinion changes. That said, "Why don't you just keep the whole world in a bottle" is a loving devistating counter to Superman's philosophy in the book.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:00
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I'm sure that 90% of the people who praise it never read it, just saw Superman with a hammer and sickle and thought "hell yeah" Yeah that’s what confuses me. I see a lot of people praise it but it’s a mess and the ending is just outright bad
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Mar 23, 2022 21:04
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I just imagined a better comic where it's a whole thing between Anarchist ushanka wearing Batman and Authoritarian Superman. Tbh I forget that Lex Luthor is even in that sometimes.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:47
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Jedit posted:Not just that; the Ring tempted him with a huge garden and under-gardeners, because it could only understand power in terms of dominion. But Sam doesn't want dominion; he just wants a garden of his own, and he doesn't want it to be so big that he can employ people to garden for him because he wants it so he can do the gardening. I also like to imagine that it's kind of a panic temptation because it knows they're almost at Mount Doom and the ring hasn't spent enough time with Sam to come up with something more sophisticated on the fly like that.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:16
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christmas boots posted:I also like to imagine that it's kind of a panic temptation because it knows they're almost at Mount Doom and the ring hasn't spent enough time with Sam to come up with something more sophisticated on the fly like that. "oh gently caress oh gently caress oh gently caress, ahh what about this guy? Gardens? Cake? I dunno, gently caress I'm about to die" - The Return of the King, page 564
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Mar 23, 2022 22:29
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Sam was willing to get into a lot of trouble for beer in the Shire. Gardening was his job. Imagine trying to tempt a McDonalds employee with a big franchise of their very own to run. The Ring was in Sam's possession when he decides it's his place to die at his master's feet though, so surely it could have figured out that tempting young Sam with Frodo's middle-aged spread was a viable route.
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Mar 24, 2022 00:10
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There was an early Soviet play (it may have actually been pre-Revolution) about the New Man. It was basically the "Obama on the Moon" story but for everyone where the air and light changes and it is glorious but also inhospitable to old human life. In Red Son does Superman go see that play? I could see it really hitting a superpowered alien.
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Mar 24, 2022 01:12
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The greater problem with any Batman versus Superman story is that they're always from Batman's perspective, which basically means that whatever Superman happens to stand for in that story is the enemy. So whatever Superman is standing for must therefore be somehow worse than what Batman's standing for, which is terrible because Batman tends to have worse ideas. I think the only story where they're at odds that's more of a Superman story is, like, Kingdom Come. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 04:17 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 04:15
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sassassin posted:Sam was willing to get into a lot of trouble for beer in the Shire. Gardening was his job. Imagine trying to tempt a McDonalds employee with a big franchise of their very own to run. There's a billboard near my house advertising a lottery, asking the question of what you'd do if you won the big prize, and the supplied answer is "buy my boss's business and run it my way", which strikes me as possibly the worst answer short of "gift the money to Elon Musk".
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Mar 24, 2022 05:59
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Spite is evergreen. I wouldn't want to be a boss but what we'll call the "lottery crowd" absolutely thinks they deserve to be the boss and would be better at it than the boss because the world is holding them back.
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Mar 24, 2022 06:41
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Cleretic posted:The greater problem with any Batman versus Superman story is that they're always from Batman's perspective, which basically means that whatever Superman happens to stand for in that story is the enemy. So whatever Superman is standing for must therefore be somehow worse than what Batman's standing for, which is terrible because Batman tends to have worse ideas. It's not exactly a Superman story, but Straczynski's Supreme Power covers the ground. The Squadron Supreme was Marvel's take on the Justice League, with the characters Hyperion and Nighthawk who are respectively Superman and Batman. In Supreme Power Nighthawk is openly antagonistic to Hyperion, who he sees as an agent of the Man who also can't be trusted because he isn't truly human. Nighthawk himself, however, is an embittered reverse racist who at one point calls a fellow black hero something racially charged for being too friendly with their white colleagues. Nighthawk isn't wrong about Hyperion, whose humanity isn't much more than a veneer and who comes to see himself as the 800-pound gorilla, but he's the one who strikes out where Hyperion only ever strikes back. And it's definitely Hyperion's story.
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Mar 24, 2022 13:01
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Tiggum posted:There's a billboard near my house advertising a lottery, asking the question of what you'd do if you won the big prize, and the supplied answer is "buy my boss's business and run it my way", which strikes me as possibly the worst answer short of "gift the money to Elon Musk". 2 chicks at the same time
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Mar 24, 2022 13:59
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oldpainless posted:2 chicks at the same time More like old payin' lez.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:12
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Tiggum posted:There's a billboard near my house advertising a lottery, asking the question of what you'd do if you won the big prize, and the supplied answer is "buy my boss's business and run it my way", which strikes me as possibly the worst answer short of "gift the money to Elon Musk".
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Mar 24, 2022 14:13
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I remember getting pissed off a while ago when some kid (19 I think) in my town won the lottery. His decision? To continue to go to trades school, and become a welder. A career that is notorious for shortening a person's life.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:18
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To be fair responding to winning the lottery by finishing schooling is and getting a job is way better than most people. And I'm gonna assume/hope he uses the lottery money so he can live comfortably doing a low risk welding job as opposed to working in the gas fields or on a rig which is the jobs that super murder you. I'm reasonably sure the people doing lower pay jobs for tradies and repair shops in towns/cities/suburbs aren't in that much danger.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:38
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Cleretic posted:The greater problem with any Batman versus Superman story is that they're always from Batman's perspective, which basically means that whatever Superman happens to stand for in that story is the enemy. So whatever Superman is standing for must therefore be somehow worse than what Batman's standing for, which is terrible because Batman tends to have worse ideas. Polygon recently had a decent article about that: https://www.polygon.com/22981616/batman-vs-superman-comics-movie-debate I think my frustration with a lot of "Superman as the bad guy" stories is that one of my favorite Superman stories is "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?", which is an explicit rejection of the gritty, nihilist type of stories that these always end up becoming. Superman is a compelling character because he's more than us. BECAUSE he could stand astride the world as a god but chooses the help the least among us because he feels that he owes that to the world, given his power. It's like how some of the best Batman moments, you can tell he never left that alley, and he's still ten minutes out of the Mask of Zoro, trying to figure out what his life is now.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:37
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Neito posted:Polygon recently had a decent article about that: https://www.polygon.com/22981616/batman-vs-superman-comics-movie-debate [flashes back to the page of superman caring for a troubled teen on a roof] Is someone cutting onions in here?
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Mar 24, 2022 15:41
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