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shimmy shimmy posted:poo poo's pretty hosed but it would be amusing in a very mean way to see a trans man absolutely dominate their sport instead. granted, that means subjecting that poor trans man to what i'm sure is going to be some insane levels of cruelty, but nobody ever ever ever seems to remember you can be trans in more than one direction. She was beaten in the 100 by a transgender man(competing in the women's category) who did significantly better than her and came in 7th I believe. She came in last. But nobody seems to even be aware that happened because transgender hate is 100% about homophobia and misogyny.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:03
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How are u posted:I'm more of a mind that politics is about getting things done. If you're grandstanding to the point that you alienate all of your allies while also failing to accomplish your objective I don't think you're doing it right. Really depends on what you’re getting done. I think it’s more illuminating to see it as the formalized competition for resources and power among different interest groups. It’s pretty obvious based on who is in power and keeps getting richer who “getting things done” has been working for for decades now. And Sanguinia, now that Carter isn’t gumming up the works I assume this coalition you’re talking about is on top of repealing right to work, right?
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Mar 23, 2022 21:05
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Jaxyon posted:She was beaten in the 100 by a transgender man(competing in the women's category) who did significantly better than her and came in 7th I believe. She came in last. To be honest I haven't looked into the details of any of it since it gets too depressing/infuriating for me as a trans woman, but yeah, not surprised.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:05
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shimmy shimmy posted:To be honest I haven't looked into the details of any of it since it gets too depressing/infuriating for me as a trans woman, but yeah, not surprised. I understand.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:09
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Also on the transgender athletics issue, prepare to become super familiar with a single study and the number 12%, which is what a study in 2021 said was the advantage transgender women who have gone through male puberty have in some areas(but not others). All the transphobes I encounter online are clinging to it like superglued velcro.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:11
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As part of their attempts to be the stupidest state in the union, Idaho just signed a Texas style "sue abortion providers" bill into law, but it's somehow even worse than the Texas one. Unlike Texas, the only people who can sue (for $20k, and with no penalty if they lose) are family members of either parent, but the bill is also worded so that the families of rapists (and the rapists themselves) can sue someone for providing an abortion to their victim. Because the Idaho governor is a giant idiot, he signed the bill, despite saying in a signing statement that it's likely unconstitutional and pays rapists for their crime.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:13
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Interesting that nobody cares about biological factors that give way more than a 12% advantage in some sports like say being tall I guess there's some that do and use things like weight classes, but like nobody insists tall people should be banned from basketball to make it fair for short people
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Mar 23, 2022 21:14
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Solkanar512 posted:Again, this is based on what? You keep claiming to know more than the unions and activists on the ground, why can't you tell us all what you know that they do not? If they're so wise that they're beyond critique by the posting hoi polloi, why did they lose How are u posted:I'm more of a mind that politics is about getting things done. If you're grandstanding to the point that you alienate all of your allies while also failing to accomplish your objective I don't think you're doing it right. If they were really trying to get things done, they should have really gotten the "not losing to Youngkin" thing done because that was a big bottleneck for getting other things done
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Mar 23, 2022 21:18
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Jaxyon posted:Also on the transgender athletics issue, prepare to become super familiar with a single study and the number 12%, which is what a study in 2021 said was the advantage transgender women who have gone through male puberty have in some areas(but not others). Funny how if you're trans your parents letting you use puberty blockers or hormone replacements are child abuse but going through bio-puberty means you must be punished forever for having done so. Real nice bigotry dovetail going on there.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:22
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The Utah Gov (R) just vetoed a trans athlete ban bill as well, and his letter is a real good read: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1emUTfFEbmNmSdW9UhhsRAseVNr4cPIv9/view excerpt quote:Finally, there is one more important reason for this veto. I must admit, I am not an expert on Jaxyon posted:She was beaten in the 100 by a transgender man(competing in the women's category) who did significantly better than her and came in 7th I believe. She came in last. Yeah, it's remarkably naked bigotry. Pre transition the athlete in question was... 10s slower then the top male competition. In transitioning, she lost about 20s off her time and was.... 10s slower then the top female competition.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:23
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VitalSigns posted:Interesting that nobody cares about biological factors that give way more than a 12% advantage in some sports like say being tall It depends. Does the advantage come in the form of a cis man like Michael Phelps, who produces half the lactic acid of anyone else and has super flexible joins? That's acceptable. Does the advantage come in the form of Caster Semenya, a cis woman who naturally produces a bit more testosterone than the average? No that's a ban. See if you can identify the relevant difference. Kalli posted:Yeah, it's remarkably naked bigotry. Pre transition the athlete in question was... 10s slower then the top male competition. In transitioning, she lost about 20s off her time and was.... 10s slower then the top female competition. If you mention any of this to transphobes it's pure Westworld. They won't even acknowledge you wrote a thing.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:25
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Sanguinia posted:Truly there is nothing more heroic than destroying your own policy initiative while stabbing all your allies in the back for a publicity stunt. The Libs were quite Owned that day. was he the guy who voted it down, or was that some other people multiple years running
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Mar 23, 2022 21:26
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Sanguinia posted:Truly there is nothing more heroic than destroying your own policy initiative while stabbing all your allies in the back for a publicity stunt. The Libs were quite Owned that day. Kinda hard to make the "getting things done" argument on behalf of the people who blocked it year after year and then voted it down the one time they were unable to kill it quietly
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Mar 23, 2022 21:36
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yeah virginia was probably winnable but Democratic leadership, with which McAullife has been conjoined at the hip since the 90s, keeps on falling in love with the idea that they don't have to promise anyone anything as long as they can point to how scary a Republican is. To this day I have no idea why he didn't run on "yeah I was an inexplicably good governor last time, wasn't I? Let's try doing that again". It's right there! It even massages your ego! C'mon!
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Mar 23, 2022 21:43
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The Lee Carter RtW thing is a good learning example of how progressives, activists, etc either get coopted or pushed out. Or at least it's one example of a stick used to accomplish this. We don't want your bill to pass but we don't want to vote against it or we might not get reelected, and we control the process so we're just putting it at the back of the line every year to quietly die. If you want to get anything done for your district at all you'll acquiesce and run cover for us. If you refuse or God forbid force us to actually vote it down we'll blame our actions on you and run you out of town for 'grandstanding', good luck getting reelected when we gently caress your district and find a primary challenger who can truthfully say this wouldn't be happening if it weren't for you. And it works, everyone either sells out or gets forced out. Just like with cops, we're never going to let you change the system from inside
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Mar 23, 2022 21:49
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:If they were really trying to get things done, they should have really gotten the "not losing to Youngkin" thing done because that was a big bottleneck for getting other things done It kind of sucks that McAuliffe changed stance on the right to work repeal might have been a big reason of why he lost, doesn’t it? Especially when more than 2/3rd of the state supports the right to work law.
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Mar 23, 2022 21:57
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Kalit posted:It kind of sucks that McAuliffe changed stance on the right to work repeal might have been a big reason of why he lost, doesn’t it? Especially when more than 2/3rd of the state supports the right to work law. Considering his "changed stance" amounted to saying "maybe if it was on my desk but this bill will never pass the legislature and can't even get out of committee, let's talk about something else" I think it's pretty reasonable to say no, it was not a big reason
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Mar 23, 2022 22:05
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Kalit posted:It kind of sucks that McAuliffe changed stance on the right to work repeal might have been a big reason of why he lost, doesn’t it? Especially when more than 2/3rd of the state supports the right to work law. The party made it very clear they were never going to pass that law, so why would his stance have affected the outcome? The "might" is doing some seriously heavy lifting.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:09
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Yeah, I don't think anyone has really cited Right to Work as part of why he lost in their analysis. Almost everyone has pointed to the poor countering of CRT and a platform of "I'm not Trump" against a guy who also wasn't Trump, after Trump lost, and while Biden's own ratings were dropping.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:16
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Harold Fjord posted:The party made it very clear they were never going to pass that law, so why would his stance have affected the outcome? Seeing the way folks in this forum turned on him for calling his colleagues out on their two faced bullshit was an eye opener, that's for sure. I think it was Friendbot who went from campaigning for him to wholesale buying the lies that were being sold all because Carter was openly hostile (to where the public could see it, heaven forbid!) to people who had no intention whatsoever of following through on their promises or representing the best interests of their constituent voters. All while claiming that he alienated support by...yelling at his opposition and demanding that those around him worked for the common good instead of their own personal interests? Fuckin' terrifying stuff for a certain type of person, i'm sure. And to be clear, i'm not saying that everyone who was against him because of him forcing the vote was just selfish. But I am saying that they were dumb. Sometimes it's good to be a dick if the other person has it coming by being two faced about their real intentions. And sometimes it makes you really loving dumb to be mad at someone being a dick to someone else if the person being harangued has openly and callously made it clear that they weren't going to do the right thing no matter what. And the quantity of stupidity on display somehow doubles if the person in question being a dick is exposing the corruption of so called allies by doing it. It's just a shame that Carter got hosed for it. I should also point out that the people mad because Carter would be a dick towards those that deserved it are the exact reason why centrists, corporatists, and right wingers all get away with weaponizing wagging the finger about decorum and unity at anyone to the left of them while simultaneously betraying the values their voters put them in office over. Ultimately, if everything is mandated to be nice and polite then no one can see what the real character of people are. Which makes it much easier to ratfuck someone behind closed doors and not have any hints of it come out until after the damage is irreversible. Edit: Hell, this goes beyond Carter and into politics at large. Just take a recent example: The republican/s that were trying to snobbishly build up support for Putin by claiming that the Ukrainian president wasn't wearing a suit (Basically: "He's so unprofessional! The horror! This man isn't looking like he lives the high life while representing the resistance forces of Ukraine!" only in decorous terms.) during a public address were pulling the same poo poo. Literally, they were trying to build consensus through decorum shaming for a murderous invasion that given Russia's policies towards minorities would probably lead to a genocide if they won! Though thankfully it seems that no one bought that nonsense that time. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 22:17
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Class3KillStorm posted:Madeline Albright has died. The CNN obit only mentions a passing glance at her work "in the private sector for a time" but that's where she truly shone. Also, lmao: quote:In 2010, Albright began promoting the controversial multi-level marketing company Herbalife.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:22
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Willa Rogers posted:The CNN obit only mentions a passing glance at her work "in the private sector for a time" but that's where she truly shone. Also, lmao: So many of these people love falling into MLMs/Scams its amazing.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:25
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CommieGIR posted:So many of these people love falling into MLMs/Scams its amazing. I mean yeah, scams are profitable when you're part of the group running it. She wasn't hawking Herbalife she was a business consultant. It would forever be darkly funny if she had supported bombing so many places as a way to make them desperate for selling Herbalife to rebuild their rebooking.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:28
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Archonex posted:Seeing the way folks in this forum turned on him for calling his colleagues out on their two faced bullshit was an eye opener, that's for sure. Exactly. Way I see it, if a group of people supposedly want to pass a bill that would help people, one person puts it up to a vote in a rude way and then many of those folks who previously voiced support voted no? They never wanted that bill passed to begin with. If they really wanted to make it happen they would suck it up and tolerate someone violating  for the sake of improving the lives of many.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:29
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Gumball Gumption posted:I mean yeah, scams are profitable when you're part of the group running it. She wasn't hawking Herbalife she was a business consultant. True, but a lot like what happened to Theranos, you don't want your name associated with them when/if they crash and burn.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:29
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Archonex posted:Seeing the way folks in this forum turned on him for calling his colleagues out on their two faced bullshit was an eye opener, that's for sure. If you're going to be participating in electoral politics, you have to play nice somewhat. That includes humoring people who would gladly toast your death behind your back. It's a dirty system and politics is a extremely frustrating and bullshit-infused. "Being a dick" certainly feels good and righteous but likely as not it just makes you ineffective as an operative. If you want to be mad and yell true things at politicians, you should be an activist, not an elected rep.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:32
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Archonex posted:Seeing the way folks in this forum turned on him for calling his colleagues out on their two faced bullshit was an eye opener, that's for sure. yeah, my suspicion on that is that the "how dare he try to get us to vote on right to work" thing was a mutually-convenient way for everyone involved to go out claiming to be guns blazing for their ideological commitments, as opposed to an actual reason of "can we please get rid of this guy before the domestic violence story blows up into something bigger, we've already got enough of that between Governor Great-Yearbooks and Lieutenant Governor Look Women Make This Stuff Up All The Time." because on the face of it, none of the collected hooting and hollering about Carter's ~indecorum~ makes a loving lick of sense. this is the state party that circled the wagons around a guy who publicly said he didn't remember if he was the guy in blackface or the guy in the KKK getup, jumping the line for a vote was ABSOLUTELY not the thing that made Carter persona non grata
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Mar 23, 2022 22:32
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CommieGIR posted:True, but a lot like what happened to Theranos, you don't want your name associated with them when/if they crash and burn. Did anything bad actually happen to any of the investors? They won their case and in the world of investing it's all so stupid no one is carrying Theranos around their neck like a weight. Everyone involved was so obscenely rich. Edit: like if the point is that they're gullible holy poo poo yeah they are. They're just gullible because they're insulated from any mistakes.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:32
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Jaxyon posted:If you're going to be participating in electoral politics, you have to play nice somewhat. That includes humoring people who would gladly toast your death behind your back. This is bullshit as it does absolutely nothing to refute my points about how decorum shaming (something that Carter had weaponized against him to turn his supporters against him) is a toxic ideal that is weaponized by two faced or outright malevolent politicians who prefer a status quo or their own selfish interests over representing their constituents. Had Carter done nothing the vote would certainly have not have been held as it had already been repeatedly scheduled to be held for years on end and was passed on because (insert excuse to avoid the bad publicity of voting against this for fear of losing donor money/business owner's support) here. Carter pushing the RTW bill to a vote forced the people involved in this scheme to make their true colors known. And then he got ratfucked for it. To put it from another perspective, what you are arguing for is to be complacent and an assistant to this two-faced system of abuse by instead being just as sneaky. Something that almost never works since without a solid political infrastructure (organized and effective PAC's separate from the dem establishment, donor crowdfunding efforts, etc, etc, similar to what AOC and company set up.*) your opposition will out fund, out maneuver, and out propagandize you by dint of being more entrenched every time. Almost every left leaning individual who has in the past tried to do what you are suggesting without the infrastructure behind them separate from the party or state machine apparatus has gotten pushed out of their position or was forced to capitulate to the status quo. Failing that, they had the public co-opted into turning against them by propagandizing silent acceptance of two faced behavior like this. The only reason that more recent lefter leaning politicians have succeeded with what you are suggesting is because they were fortunate enough to have a ton of organized support backing them up. Carter did not have that infrastructure and in fact by many accounts appeared to have fair-weather support from some of his supporters at best as evidenced by people in this forum. Meaning that he had a choice between letting an objectively wrong thing happen that would have potentially undermined his very reason to be there in the first place if he let it go quietly. So he played the hand he was dealt and at least made it clear to those that were actually paying attention that the people he was so angry at were just as lovely as he claimed. That you think this was somehow a bad thing because of a nebulous understanding of realpolitik that doesn't go into the intricacies of the logistics of the tactics you suggest does not mean he did the wrong thing at all. * Which you will note is part of why the centrists, third way types, and dem establishment in general were so angry at AoC and similar individuals and tried to blacklist any primary opposition for so long. It had become evident that the elements of the party that weren't leaning rightwards were organizing effective resistance to control of the party. Ditto for all the two faced attempts from folks on the Democratic party's side of things like Pelosi to backstab the squad in the eyes of the public. It got to the point where Pelosi and company were sometimes even aiding and abetting Republican efforts to slander them before walking suddenly their position back only once it was obvious it hadn't worked. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 22:47
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Class3KillStorm posted:Madeline Albright has died. Good riddance to a pile of human waste.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:58
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CommieGIR posted:True, but a lot like what happened to Theranos, you don't want your name associated with them when/if they crash and burn. Don't you? I haven't seen anyone associated with Elizabeth Holmes really pay any price. Ten times out of ten, they pass themselves as the 'real' victims, the first ones that were lied to. They just wanted to help! The actual Wolf of Wall Street is still out there running scams and only pays his 100 million+ fine when he feels like it, while people who fail to pay a parking ticket or a jaywalking fine get hammered with thw wrath of God. The only real crime under this sytem is to be a loser in it.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:58
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I get the feeling that the feelings of the Carter controversy can be split between whether you have a Marxist philosophy that politics is a zero sum game to get as much of your ideology in all forms of power as possible; or if you have the liberal philosophy that politics is about disagreeing groups who want to make the world a better place for everyone through negotiation.
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Mar 23, 2022 23:03
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VitalSigns posted:Interesting that nobody cares about biological factors that give way more than a 12% advantage in some sports like say being tall Funny you mention that because the NCAA for a while outlawed dunking a basketball because Kareem Abdul Jabaar was too tall. Really not sure if this rule would have been implemented had Kareem been a white guy.
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Mar 23, 2022 23:22
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yeah, my suspicion on that is that the "how dare he try to get us to vote on right to work" thing was a mutually-convenient way for everyone involved to go out claiming to be guns blazing for their ideological commitments, as opposed to an actual reason of "can we please get rid of this guy before the domestic violence story blows up into something bigger, we've already got enough of that between Governor Great-Yearbooks and Lieutenant Governor Look Women Make This Stuff Up All The Time." I actually find your argument pretty compelling here and hadn't really connected the dots, so.
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Mar 23, 2022 23:23
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Archonex posted:This is bullshit as it does absolutely nothing to refute my points about how decorum shaming (something that Carter had weaponized against him to turn his supporters against him) is a toxic ideal that is weaponized by two faced or outright malevolent politicians who prefer a status quo or their own selfish interests over representing their constituents. So...... what was the upside of Carter doing this? You say it's to "make their true colors known". But.... how has that [positively] changed anything for VA politics? I'm not very familiar about the local level, so I could be missing something. But all I can see for an outcome is that Carter got destroyed in the governor's primary race and also no longer a state representative. Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 23:24
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Is asking somebody to do the right thing, which they have promised they want to do, and which they got their job by promising to do, to actually do it "being a dick" though. It's not like he's asking them to shine his shoes for free. It's like "hey give me lucrative position and I'll use it to help people". "Ok you got it will you help these people now?." "Too busy, sorry!" *repeat for literally years* "Ok we need to help these people we're voting now, literally just say 'aye' to help them, aye or nay what's it going to be" "Oh wow how RUDE, no gently caress millions and millions of working families gently caress them gently caress them, just because you tried to make me you're the rear end in a top hat here you know" I feel like nobody here would be dumb enough to buy this in their own day to day interactions with anyone. If someone always has an excuse for not doing something, you would probably suspect they just didn't wanna, especially if it's something that requires no effort from them other than saying 'aye' to allow you to do it, and especially the finally say no and blame it on you for asking in the first place. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 23:27
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The lesson to learn from Lee Carter is that if you don't play the game right, even if the rules are stupid, you lose.
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Mar 23, 2022 23:33
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RBA Starblade posted:The lesson to learn from Lee Carter is that if you don't play the game right, even if the rules are stupid, you lose.
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Mar 23, 2022 23:37
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Kalit posted:So...... what was the upside of Carter doing this? You say it's to "make their true colors known". But.... how has that [positively] changed anything for VA politics? I'm not very familiar about the local level, so I could be missing something. But all I can see for an outcome is that Carter got destroyed in the governor's primary race and also no longer a state representative. The upside is that now people know that these politicians, be they Democrats or Republicans, aren't going to vote for it no matter what. Which can give the impetus to vote them out and replace them with someone more amenable to the interests of the public. Whereas before they could hide behind an eternal claim of "We'll get to it next year" as they had been doing for years on end to avoid the bad PR. Before, there was the excuse. Now there is the reality. That is something that people can organize around and is an actionable political weapon against those politicians to get them out of office. Whereas if people in favor of getting rid of RTW before tried that there was always the sop of "Well, we just haven't voted on it yet.", thereby making it pretty much impossible to get support amongst moderates or good faith voters who assume that they wouldn't get screwed over by their representatives. Likewise, the lack of it being repealed also undermines the argument against Carter somehow breaking a non-existent rule regarding decorum; thereby justifying him being tarred and feathered straight out of office. Since if it really was something they intended to vote through why would them voting it down because of one man being a dick make any sense? Ditto for any consecutive year afterwards when RTW hasn't been repealed yet so long as there is an organized effort to propagandize for it's repeal, thereby placing pressure on them to actually do their loving jobs like they claimed they would in the first place. Also, what do you think would have happened if Carter stayed silent? Do you think he would have been been given a silent pass on it by those who didn't want to see someone on the left have any power? Or is it more likely that his complicity in playing along with that could have been used against him to propagandize for his own loss of office or being co-opted in exchange for staying in power? Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 23, 2022 23:43
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Kalit posted:So...... what was the upside of Carter doing this? You say it's to "make their true colors known". But.... how has that [positively] changed anything for VA politics? I'm not very familiar about the local level, so I could be missing something. But all I can see for an outcome is that Carter got destroyed in the governor's primary race and also no longer a state representative. Considering the outcome of him playing along with was the bill getting killed in committee over and over, seems like positive change wasn't on the table no matter what. Which I guess is the pitch right, we're not going to let you pass these bills, but if you sell out you get to stay in power for life, if you don't you get run out on a rail, if you're smart you'll make the best of it yeah. I can see why so many people take the deal, things are hosed either way, but one way at least you get paid
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Mar 23, 2022 23:45
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