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idiotsavant posted:How do you explain the local DSA, the unions, apparently half of his grass-roots supporters, and seemingly 85% of the rest of the people in VA politics not being able to stand his guts? They were all feckless liberals in disguise? Seriously, maybe the dude is just a toxic jerk. Agreed though there is a toxicity of its own to decide to not assist so many because of personal dislike. Politics are very toxic.
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Mar 24, 2022 04:12
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Eric Cantonese posted:Northam got a pass for the blackface thing because then Lt. Governor Fairfax ended up facing sexual assault allegations and then Attorney General Herring also ended up having a less horrid blackface incident in his past. Everyone thought Northam was doomed (especially after one of the most disastrous press conferences I've ever seen) until everyone else who would have been a Democrat successor had their own unpalatable poo poo to deal with. As an addendum to my last post, I should also point out that "blackface fiascos (sigh)" basically sums up the general level of sheer corruption on the part of the state dems along with the increasingly dejected and bemused impressions of pretty much everyone dem aligned that has been following that entire saga. Archonex fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 04:15
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Archonex posted:As an addendum to my last post, I should also point out that "blackface fiascos (sigh)" basically sums up the general level of sheer corruption on the part of the state dems along with the increasingly dejected and bemused impressions of pretty much everyone dem aligned that has been following that entire saga. The scary thing for me is that Northam obviously had higher office aspirations before that scandal hit and he would totally gone super do-nothing centrist if it wasn't for that scandal making him (and the party as a whole) much more beholden to the black electorate.
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Mar 24, 2022 04:21
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Eric Cantonese posted:The scary thing for me is that Northam obviously had higher office aspirations before that scandal hit and he would totally gone super do-nothing centrist if it wasn't for that scandal making him (and the party as a whole) much more beholden to the black electorate. Yeah, it's a small part of why I said that holding folks to a mandatory standard of decorum a few pages back is a bad idea. As these sickos have an easier time slipping through the cracks with a set of guidelines on what is presentable. So often where public personalities are concerned there is a marked difference between the produced persona deliberately engineered for public consumption and the private one where the person believes he or she can get away with whatever they want. It seems like he only got as far as he did because everyone assumed that his public personality was his private one and just took the expectation of decorum as a thing that is sacrosanct in politics instead of the reality of it being the equivalent of dressing up for a nice interview to get the job. That being said, i'm not sure how anyone can look at the situation and say "Hey, it's okay that the governor used to be acting like a walking, talking, minstrel show for laughs since the the next guy in line may or may not be a KKK sympathizer, and the guy after him may have committed sexual assault! Work with whatcha got, right?". Like, holy poo poo, at a certain point you'd think people would just want the entire apparatus gone unless they're okay with those things. I can't help but feel that that might have influenced things on the election end for all the dems in the state a bit. Edit: Heck, to get into it more and go off on a tangent: The expectation of decorum is an especially blatant double standard when looked at from the perspective of comparing the two parties since you can look at the Republicans and see that they don't follow it at all when it's beneficial to them. They even go so far as to tolerate having lunatic bigots like Marjorie Greene Taylor going full neo-nazi in public and talking about jewish people in a tone that had might as well have her referring to them as "the perfidious jews" like they are stumping for a position in WW2 Germany. And that doesn't get even get into what she said they were "responsible" for, claiming their jewish orbital death laser was starting fires in California or some such insane nonsense. And she hasn't stopped since then. She's bounced from minority to minority (Last I checked, she's trying to incite something against trans people.) since then, coming up with insane conspiracies to justify victimizing vulnerable people with at best only an awkward shrug from other Republicans on the national level when confronted over the need to shut her up before someone gets murdered because of her insane supremacist rhetoric. And this goes beyond just crazy conspiracy theorists and the Republicans carrying their views into a political position where they can do harm. Look at Nunes just making poo poo up to tar and feather the dems to ensure that they lose the next election cycle, or Cruz doing the same all the time, or really just any Republican politician or political org on the national level at this point. This double standard between the parties isn't a new thing either. Michelle Bachman comes to mind as a fantastic example. Consider the incident of her hiding in the bushes to spy on a gay couple, since she was wholly convinced they were plotting the downfall of America or some crazy poo poo like that. Or that time she claimed she was convinced (again, a remark she made publicly) that two lesbians, one an ex-nun of all things, were plotting to kidnap her to do...something? I don't know, did they think they were going to convert her with their lesbian ways or something like they're the Borg? Meanwhile, Obama wears a tan suit and all of a sudden the most fortunate parts of the nation are up in arms as if it's a declaration of war. Ditto for the whole absurd grey poupon mustard thing. Or the reporters following AOC around during her first days in office claiming that her clothes were just too drab and unexpensive for such a position all while at least one took a creepy rear end shot of her as she was walking away from them. Or that her views (Which basically boiled down to "people should not be defacto debt slaves".) are just too "extremist" for the conservative elements of the Democratic party, along with all the smears that followed when she refused to back down. TL;DR: It's apparent that an expectation of decorum and wealthy presentability is something that is weaponized by conservative elements in both parties against less fortunate or more progressively minded groups. Just as it's obvious that it's a disadvantage that only one side adheres too as a matter of expectation. That expectation is a blatant double standard meant to advance the interests of some of the biggest pricks out there, and it's way past time that people stop giving it the time of day when it's used as an often cynical attack on people who are trying to make a difference. Archonex fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 04:24
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:I err on the side of believing women in these things, and it does a lot to explain why most of Lee's one-time allies went from zero to 'this guy is loving radioactive' well in advance of the party humiliating itself in the right to work debacle We should all err on the side of believing anyone claiming to have been abused, but unless I'm missing something there is not actually anyone claiming to have been abused by Lee Carter. The link you previously shared only amounts to a bunch of anonymously sourced gossip. "Yeah that's what I heard, too" nonsense. If anyone has actually accused him of violence, then I will believe them and absolutely gently caress him if that comes to pass. But people trying to gin this up as the secret real reason that the party forced him out to avoid another scandal in VA politics is quite absurd (I mean let's be honest, committing domestic violence has almost never been much of an obstacle for powerful people in this country). I would suggest the significantly more likely explanation is that he got forced out because he was undecorous and brought attention to other party members being duplicitous snakes.
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Mar 24, 2022 06:40
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Is there a thread I can read that has posters turning on Lee Carter?idiotsavant posted:How do you explain the local DSA, the unions, apparently half of his grass-roots supporters, and seemingly 85% of the rest of the people in VA politics not being able to stand his guts? They were all feckless liberals in disguise? Seriously, maybe the dude is just a toxic jerk. Is there evidence that half of his own supporters hate him?
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Mar 24, 2022 06:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is there a thread I can read that has posters turning on Lee Carter? Goon commentary on Lee Carter would mostly be here in the local politics thread which is largely dead: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661 Keep in mind the general D&D rule to avoid repeating discussions that have been thoroughly covered several times before. This thread started discussion of Lee Carter following Willa Rogers posting an article about how McAuliffe lost the Virginia gubernatorial race in part because of a drop in youth turnout: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=3997306&pagenumber=7&perpage=40&highlight=carter#post522322357 If we are going to continue to discuss Lee Carter's political career please make sure it is relevant to current events and/or is fresh information or analysis rather than just rehashing.
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Mar 24, 2022 06:54
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:I err on the side of believing women in these things, Yeah, same. What women are accusing Carter of anything? e: oh no a horse snuck in while I was posting
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Mar 24, 2022 06:55
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Bishyaler posted:But its great to know that Ukrainian nazis will get relief even though it might be stolen from their mailbox. So, just curious... What percentage of a country can support Nazis before the Russians are "allowed" to try and exterminate their culture? Is there a hard number? Is it per capita? Is it the responsibility of a democratic nation to murder people with abhorrent beliefs so they don't get invaded? If we're comparing the number of Ukrainian Nazis to American White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis and Trumpists; can we take your post to mean that you approve of an American invasion, by Putin? Because Russia definitely has the moral authority to be the arbiter on this issue. Definitely not half a goose-step away from a new word for Nazi, themselves. How about Canada? We try, but 5% of eligible voters voted for Faith Goldy in the last Toronto mayoral election. And if I'm being honest, the PPC is pretty much just an openly Fascist party. They did uncomfortably well in our last federal election. Are we at risk, or should we just stop funding Alberta and Saskatchewan? Maybe a bit more noggin-knocking at the white supremacist truck jamboree in Ottawa last month? Would that keep Putin off our backs? It seems you're worried about support going towards Nazis; so I'm just going to continue the train of thought: How do you feel about tax dollars going to Deep Red States? I mean, there's a lot of book-burning going on, transphobia, Jewish Space Lasers Theories... America should just stop funding those states, right? I mean, your money could pave a road a Nazi will drive on!
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Mar 24, 2022 07:01
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NutShellBill posted:So, just curious... Just wondering, under the new regime do we have to respond to this like it's an actual argument, or are we allowed to say "drat, that is stupid as poo poo"? mods?
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Mar 24, 2022 07:03
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some plague rats posted:Yeah, same. What women are accusing Carter of anything? The rule about repeating arguments/discussion is enforced leniently. If someone has info about people directly alleging abuse by Carter (or if it's purely secondhand/gossip) by all means share it. It would be good to have a clear answer for that line of discussion. I suppose I'm requesting folks get in any final comments re: Lee Carter and pivot back to current events unless there's new information. If there's something new about Lee Carter by all means discuss it.
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Mar 24, 2022 07:10
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Fritz the Horse posted:Goon commentary on Lee Carter would mostly be here in the local politics thread which is largely dead: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661 Thanks for this. I'll drop the Lee Carter conversation for now as everything I can say to him that ties to modern politics that I want to say has been said.
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Mar 24, 2022 07:13
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some plague rats posted:Just wondering, under the new regime do we have to respond to this like it's an actual argument, or are we allowed to say "drat, that is stupid as poo poo"? mods? No, you aren't.
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Mar 24, 2022 08:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:Thanks for this. I'll drop the Lee Carter conversation for now as everything I can say to him that ties to modern politics that I want to say has been said. I liked Lee, probably because I have very questionable taste in politicians, but it was literally his own staffers saying that he was a disaster who undid tons of their work. In any event, shitposting on twitter is clearly his calling, so at least he's doing what he would prefer to be doing now.
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Mar 24, 2022 08:39
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some plague rats posted:Yeah, same. What women are accusing Carter of anything? *closes barn door*
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Mar 24, 2022 11:37
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e: nm
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Mar 24, 2022 13:13
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Wrong thread
Willo567 fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 13:42
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yeah, my suspicion on that is that the "how dare he try to get us to vote on right to work" thing was a mutually-convenient way for everyone involved to go out claiming to be guns blazing for their ideological commitments, as opposed to an actual reason of "can we please get rid of this guy before the domestic violence story blows up into something bigger, we've already got enough of that between Governor Great-Yearbooks and Lieutenant Governor Look Women Make This Stuff Up All The Time." I don't think there is any actual evidence for this theory, but it would make a lot more sense in explaining why the local unions and DSA dropped him so thoroughly and so quickly. And why the other elected officials didn't really care when he pulled similar stunts initially. Either the local unions had a better feeling about right to work repeal or the political situation and felt he actually did mess it up or they were already annoyed/worried about him and this was just a big public thing that was 100% on Carter that they could use as a jumping off point. Edit: Just saw the mod request.
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Mar 24, 2022 13:58
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Fritz the Horse posted:Goon commentary on Lee Carter would mostly be here in the local politics thread which is largely dead: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661  I'm not sure whether what I posted doesn't hew to your framework of current events (student-loan forbearance) or new information (a study about the VA drop in younger voters) or you're just mentioning it as an aside. If it's the former, please clarify, since I've laid out why I think it was relevant to this thread & followed your framework. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 14:01
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Some highlights from the new Emerson national poll. I mentioned a few weeks ago that polls would gauge how effective Biden's blame-it-on-Russia strategy would be in tempering views on gas prices, and this was the first poll I've seen to directly ask that question:quote:As President Biden travels to the NATO summit this week, 59% of voters agree President Biden should go to Brussels and join NATO leaders, 20% think he should not go; 21% are unsure. While US voters are supportive of Biden’s travel to Brussels, 51% of voters think that President Biden should prioritize domestic affairs while 35% think he should prioritize the War in Ukraine. Fourteen percent (14%) are unsure. From the summary; I haven't looked at the crosstabs yet. Jesus, those numbers on the probability of nuclear war are pretty startling. Also lol at Trump leading among suburbanites, who've been the Dems' holy grail & their ongoing excuse for their centrism.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:13
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Willa Rogers posted:^^^ You keep mentioning how baffled you are that "unions have dropped him" and you've been saying so for months. Have you delved into which particular unions, and their stated reasons? (His staff was the first to unionize in Virginia among pols, btw.) These are all of the unions who endorsed his primary opponent: - Virginia AFL-CIO - United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America - Virginia Education Association - The national AFL-CIO - Service Employees International Union - Virginia Professional Firefighters Union - Virginia Plumbers and Pipefitters Union - Laborers' International Union of North America - United Steelworkers Union - Communications Workers of America All of them just say nice things about his primary opponent in their statements, but don't really get into why they didn't support Carter. One of the reasons its hard to get info on what went down is that basically nobody commented on it on publicly except for Carter and one or two members of the legislature. The local DSA chapter put out a short statement that didn't really get into specifics and most of the unions just endorsed his primary opponent without saying much about Carter. Most of the other stuff comes from random people who worked for Carter, Twitter, or other non-journalistic sources.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:30
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The business Dem who won or the leftist who split the vote?
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Mar 24, 2022 14:32
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Harold Fjord posted:The business Dem who won or the leftist who split the vote? The one who won.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:35
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For folks in this thread who don’t live in Virginia/follow our General Assembly:idiotsavant posted:Maybe Lee Carter is just a giant rear end in a top hat
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Mar 24, 2022 14:42
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Who cares if an elected official is an rear end in a top hat? I don't care if a plumber is an rear end in a top hat, I just want my toilet unclogged.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:47
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It's not weird for unions to also not support the most left Democrat automatically? At least here in MA union support is always split between candidates in primary races because some of the unions are more progressive than others. Honestly for a thread who clamps down on conspiracy so hard it's odd that so many are quickly buying into the conspiracy thought where there's a gap in your info on why Carter was on the outs so it must be the incredibly third hand salacious rumors. Are they true? Maybe! We have no proof. Could it be much more mundane disagreement around policy and personality? Maybe! We have no proof. Did Carter poo poo himself at a party and now everyone he worked with calls him poopy Lee? Maybe! We have no proof. That's the fun of conspiracy, it fills in the holes where you have no info.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:48
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After taking 5 months to solve the daylight savings time issue, congress is moving on to the next largest problem in America: The Penny. Covid supply chain issues, Zinc shortages, and the U.S. budget deficit have combined to make congress look into eliminating the penny. The reasons for elimination are: - It costs ~1.8 cents to make one penny and the GAO has determined that there is no possible way to lower the cost of making a penny to lower than the face value of the coin. - The U.S. treasury says that roughly 2/3 of pennies minted never circulate. That means they are either lost, sitting in a drawer, or discarded. - A Gallup poll from 2015 says that 2% of Americans admit that they throw their pennies into the trash and 40% never use them. - Supply chain issues are not only raising the cost of making the penny, but also producing coin shortages. Despite these shortages, they are still minting money that will mostly never circulate. - People are using more digital currency and pennies are less necessary for making change. The arguments for keeping it are: - Nickels cost more to make than a penny. The mint would have to produce more nickels to make up for the lack of pennies. - Most coins circulate for an average of 20 or 30 years, so even though it costs more to make a penny than the penny is worth, it will probably still break even over a 20 or 30 year period. - Pennies are one of the most common donations to charity. Organizations such as the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, the Salvation Army, and the Ronald McDonald House ask people to donate pennies to raise funds. - The Lincoln Presidential Library opposes eliminating any currency with Lincoln on it and the U.S. Zinc council says that 1,100 jobs are dependent on the penny minting process. quote:BLOOMINGTON — A penny saved is a penny gained. But what if there's no penny at all? https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/circulating-coinage-production-totals-fall-for-2021 https://pantagraph.com/business/loc...b7f787f5d2.html Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 14:48
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NutShellBill posted:So, just curious... Putin, Xi, I don't give a gently caress at this point. Yes, final answer, Regis.
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Mar 24, 2022 14:55
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Also, apparently Dr. Oz was appointed to the President's Council on Sports, Physical Fitness, and Nutrition by Trump and is still there. But, Biden has asked him to resign or be fired by 6 pm tonight. Honestly not sure which is more confusing: That he was there in the first place or that they bothered to kick him off after a year of being there into Biden's term. https://twitter.com/DrOz/status/1506747211257978889 https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1506752795604656130
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Mar 24, 2022 14:58
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Honestly, I've been hoping the US gets rid of the penny for as long as I can remember having an opinion on it. I do think that the American public would blame the loss of the penny leading to even worse inflation.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:04
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Lib and let die posted:Putin, Xi, I don't give a gently caress at this point. Yes, final answer, Regis. I don't think America would benefit from being invaded by a right-wing oil billionaire.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:11
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I don't think America would benefit from being invaded by a right-wing oil billionaire. We certainly haven't benefited from all the times that happened already, that's true.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:12
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I don't think America would benefit from being invaded by a right-wing oil billionaire. We're already run by right-wing oil billionaires.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:13
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Lib and let die posted:We're already run by right-wing oil billionaires. That's true enough! How would we benefit from being invaded by a new one?
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Mar 24, 2022 15:14
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Also, apparently Dr. Oz was appointed to the President's Council on Sports, Physical Fitness, and Nutrition by Trump and is still there. Lol. What a goober. It's clearly a Hatch thing.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:16
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Civilized Fishbot posted:That's true enough! How would we benefit from being invaded by a new one? Democrats and Republicans alike as we know them today would cease to exist entirely. I'd say that's a pretty drat good start.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:16
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Lib and let die posted:Democrats and Republicans alike as we know them today would cease to exist entirely. I'd say that's a pretty drat good start. That's certainly true in one context if Russia were to invade America
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Mar 24, 2022 15:20
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NutShellBill posted:So, just curious... Cool reductionist speedrun! How about we start by acknowledging there is a difference between making billions of dollars of weapons available to self-avowed neo-nazi national guard units and having someone with far-right views drive on a road paved with tax dollars?
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Mar 24, 2022 15:22
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is pepsi ok posted:Who cares if an elected official is an rear end in a top hat? I don't care if a plumber is an rear end in a top hat, I just want my toilet unclogged. Are you insinuating that Lee Carter got things done [with regards to the right to work law]? Based on how things turned out for him, it seemed like he was a giant rear end in a top hat and ineffective. Gumball Gumption posted:It's not weird for unions to also not support the most left Democrat automatically? It’s weird for a number of unions to not support the incumbent candidate who’s supposedly the most pro-union option Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 15:23
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RBA Starblade posted:That's certainly true in one context if Russia were to invade America Don't care who it is. Let Canada or Mexico, or hell, the asshokes in England come and take us over. Our leadership is simultaneously asleep at the wheel, while ramming lines off the 8-track catching air on hills, blasting metallica, and has a trunk full of C4 on a hair loving trigger. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 24, 2022 15:26
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