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Mola Yam
Jun 18, 2004

Kali Ma Shakti de!
teeth and eyes aren't real

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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Teeth are luxury bones.

Calibanibal
Aug 25, 2015

U-DO Burger posted:

the wait for this week's one piece chapter is so painful

well its certainly something this week

TehSaurus
Jun 12, 2006

Toaster Beef posted:

so i'm loving off

gently caress yeah buddy.

Also, excellent op, op.

AppleNippleBOB
May 13, 2007



Gio posted:

lol were these made by people itt?

yes

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


ex post facho posted:

also, how do you even add dental and vision coverage?? all of the plans say "not included" and there's no option to add them?

If you can't add it you aren't covered

Honestly you're better off loving off from work and going on Medicaid

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

Nocturtle posted:

Nice new thread OP!

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post. I've been summarizing PASC research studies for my own understanding and previously posted my notes in the old thread but thought worth posting here too in case it's of interest. Please let me know if you're aware of any large scale PASC study not included here, I'd be interested in learning more.

TLDR: long-term COVID impacts ie "long COVID" or "Post-Acute Sequelae of SARs-COV-2 infection" (PASC) affects ~10-30% of people with symptomatic infections. >1%-10% of COVID infections result in “significant” long term impacts, with large uncertainties in actual rates but these are likely lower bounds. Vaccines did not protect against all PASC conditions (estimates vary between 50% reduction to no protection).

PASC overview
-PASC encompasses a range of conditions that might occur after a COVID infection
-conditions include cardiovascular, neurological and immune disorders
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2021.698169/full
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/02/19/science/long-covid-causes.html
-PASC rate post-infection highly uncertain, estimates vary between 10%-30% at ~6 months
-the impact of potentially relevant factors like vaccination also have large uncertainties
-several large scale studies and labor force analyses attempt to evaluate PASC rate, severity
-PASC isn’t COVID mortality, mortality is better understood and effectively reduced with vaccines

PASC rate estimates from major studies
-focus here on PASC rates for mild cases in <65 year olds where possible
-ideally account for vaccination impact, most large completed studies done pre-vaccine

Post-acute symptoms, new onset diagnoses and health problems 6 to 12 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection: a nationwide questionnaire study in the adult Danish population
-large scale study, 152880 participants, evaluated at 6-12 months, pre-vaccine availability
-long-term symptoms maximal for 30-60 year old
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-~40% risk of physical exhaustion, 35% risk of mental exhaustion
-~28% chance of memory and concentration issues
-~8% fatigue

Long COVID in a prospective cohort of home-isolated patients
-followed 312 home-isolated (non-hospitalized) Norwegian patients from the early pandemic
-52% (32/61) of home-isolated young adults, aged 16–30 years, had symptoms at 6 months
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-impaired concentration (13%, 8/61)
-memory problems (11%, 7/61)
-fatigue (21%, 13/61)

Physical, psychological and cognitive profile of post-COVID condition in healthcare workers, Quebec, Canada
-~6000 COVID positive HCWs in Quebec between July 2020 and May 2021 pre-vaccines
-had controls, claims less bias than similar studies because participants recruited pre-COVID
~40% reported at least one post-infection symptom at 12 weeks
-10-20% described at least one “severe” post-infection symptom, did not decrease with time
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-cognitive dysfunction ~15% at 25 weeks
-fatigue ~25% at 25 weeks

Incidence, co-occurrence, and evolution of long-COVID features: A 6-month retrospective cohort study of 273,618 survivors of COVID-19
-analyzed health records of 81 million US patients, idenitified 273000 COVID cases
-cases would have been for people that sought treatment, so worse than overall population
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-fatigue/malaise (12.82%; 5.87%
-cognitive symptoms (7.88%; 3.95%),

Prevalence, determinants, and impact on general health and working capacity of post-acute sequelae of COVID-19 six to 12 months after infection: a population-based retrospective cohort study from southern Germany
-persons aged 18-65 years with PCR confirmed infection between Oct 2020 and March 2021
-11,710 subjects, reported symptom rates before, during infection and at later time
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-neurocognitive impairment (PD 31.3%)
-fatigue (PD 37.2%)

Persistence, prevalence, and polymorphism of sequelae after COVID-19 in young adults
-501 participants, median age of 21 years (range 19-29)
-compared 177 COVID cases after 6 months with controls, recent infection, asmptomatics
-found a significant trend towards metabolic disorders, higher Body Mass Index (BMI) (p=0.03), lower aerobic threshold (p=0.007), higher blood cholesterol (p<0.001) and low-density lipoprotein LDL levels
-there were no significant differences in psychosocial questionnaire scores

Long-term cardiovascular outcomes of COVID-19
-157000 VA patients, predominantly older white males
-also includes contemporary and historical control groups
-study period 2020-2021, pre-vaccine
-4.5% elevated risk of any cardiovascular outcome in entire cohort
-roughly 2.5% elevated risk of any cardiovascular outcome for mild cases

Risks and burdens of incident diabetes in long COVID: a cohort study
-181280 participants with COVID-19 between March 1, 2020, and Sept 30, 2021
-note average participant age of ~61 years old
-had contemporary and historical control
-people with COVID-19 had increased risk (HR 1.40, 95% CI 1.36–1.44) of diabetes
-excess burden (13.46, 95% CI 12.11–14.84, per 1000 people at 12 months) of diabetes ie roughly ~1% of cases
-Risks and burdens increased according to the severity of the acute phase of COVID-19

Six-month sequelae of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection: a retrospective cohort study of 10,024 breakthrough infections
-10024 vaccinated individuals, 9479 matched against unvaccinated controls
-no uninfected control group
-evaluated pre-Omicron
-this study is focused on evaluating difference in long-term outcomes between vaccinated vs unvaccinated and not so much the absolute rates
-two doses of vaccine had no impact on “long-COVID” features, several other disorders

Presence of Symptoms 6 Weeks After COVID-19 Among Vaccinated and Unvaccinated U.S. Healthcare Personnel
-participants had COVID-19 with either verified mRNA vaccination or no vaccination
-among 681 eligible participants, 419 (61%) completed survey ~6 weeks after illness onset
-~71% reported one or more COVID-like symptoms 6 weeks after illness onset
-lower prevalence of long-term symptoms among vaccinated participants
-”significant” post-infection symptoms:
-fatigue ~30%
-cognitive symptoms: 25%

Indirect PASC impacts from labor statistics

Is ‘long Covid’ worsening the labor shortage?
-assumes ~100 million workers infected by Oct 2021
-roughly estimates ~1.1 million people out of work due to long COVID at any given time

COVID-19 Likely Resulted in 1.2 Million More Disabled People by the End of 2021
-additional 1.2 million people in the US civilian institutional population with a registered disability in 2021 compared to 2020
-total labor force without disability is down ~2 million since the start of the pandemic
-large increase in workers with disability likely due to PASC, ~1% of infected workers

Summary
-PASC research suggests >10% chance of “significant” long-term impact from COVID infection, esp fatigue and cognitive symptoms (estimates vary around 10-20%)
-additional risk of cardiovascular disease after mild infection is ~2.5%
-vaccines did not protect against all PASC conditions (estimates vary between 50% reduction to no protection)
-vaccine protection has likely not improved with Omicron dominant given relatively worse protection against symptomatic infection
-labor statistics suggest >1% of infected workers either disabled or too sick to continue working at least temporarily
-current overall picture is >1%-10% of COVID infections result in “significant” long term impacts, with large uncertainties in actual rates but these are likely lower bounds

this is a really really good post

TehSaurus
Jun 12, 2006

ex post facho posted:

also, how do you even add dental and vision coverage?? all of the plans say "not included" and there's no option to add them?

I'm guessing these aren't even part of the marketplace and you have to buy them through regular means, but I don't know anything really.

tangy yet delightful
Sep 13, 2005



ex post facho posted:

also, how do you even add dental and vision coverage?? all of the plans say "not included" and there's no option to add them?

Vision I've not bothered with adding as the price doesn't seem to make sense when at most I'm getting a vision check and contacts.

Dental for me was an addon via the marketplace website after I picked the health insurance plan. This was/is on Oregon.

im saint germain
Jan 30, 2021

i've come from the future to tell you all we have to stop party rock before it returns

Platystemon posted:

Teeth are luxury bones.

just lol if you don't see how Fixo₫ent has this nation's mouths by the... mouth

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Checking my marketplace options



lol

I have worked for both of these companies so I guess it's only fair

Real Mean Queen
Jun 2, 2004

Zesty.


Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

Checking my marketplace options



lol

I have worked for both of these companies so I guess it's only fair

Lower expense relative to what, a second apartment?

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?
The sad thing is that I've been an independent contractor on both sides of the ACA and the situation right now is still drastically better than it was pre-marketplace. At least insurance is theoretically affordable for me now instead of costing approximately 25% of my gross income.

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007
basically healthcare in America is "your annual earnings divided by your out of pocket max is the number of additional years you will need to work if you ever have a major medical issue, good luck with all the rest"

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Paradoxish posted:

The sad thing is that I've been an independent contractor on both sides of the ACA and the situation right now is still drastically better than it was pre-marketplace. At least insurance is theoretically affordable for me now instead of costing approximately 25% of my gross income.

The situation is better right now than it was in 2014 in the wake of Marco Rubio loving the ACA.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


ex post facho posted:

basically healthcare in America is "your annual earnings divided by your out of pocket max is the number of additional years you will need to work if you ever have a major medical issue, good luck with all the rest"

I've had two major knee surgeries and my wife has had week in the hospital due to kidney failure from her Crohn's disease and I don't think we got more than $2000 in total bills from all that.

She used to get colonoscopies every year that we paid $1200 out of pocket for every time.

you figure it out.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


I had an appendectomy in 2018 that I didn't pay a dime for. Not a single penny. Insurance covered it all. Who fuckin knows

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?
My mom recently celebrated finally paying off $40k in medical debt (she's a well-paid school administrator who had decent enough insurance at the time) and basically everyone she told treated it like this amazing accomplishment without anyone batting an eye at the idea of someone just walking around with that much debt because of a medical emergency.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Paradoxish posted:

My mom recently celebrated finally paying off $40k in medical debt (she's a well-paid school administrator who had decent enough insurance at the time) and basically everyone she told treated it like this amazing accomplishment without anyone batting an eye at the idea of someone just walking around with that much debt because of a medical emergency.

I've worked for insurance companies for 12 years

never pay off medical debt

never ever pay off medical debt

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

I've worked for insurance companies for 12 years

never pay off medical debt

never ever pay off medical debt

They won a settlement against her and garnished her wages, so she didn't have a choice.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Paradoxish posted:

They won a settlement against her and garnished her wages, so she didn't have a choice.

well that's a load of poo poo

The general thing you do is say "I can pay $30 a month" and just get on that forever, and it doesn't impact your credit score as long as you pay that thirty bucks a month

The Saucer Hovers
May 16, 2005

or you could have no wages have you tried no wages

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

well that's a load of poo poo

The general thing you do is say "I can pay $30 a month" and just get on that forever, and it doesn't impact your credit score as long as you pay that thirty bucks a month

this is so :psyduck: reading as a non-american

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

well that's a load of poo poo

The general thing you do is say "I can pay $30 a month" and just get on that forever, and it doesn't impact your credit score as long as you pay that thirty bucks a month
Someone should’ve told Lowtax

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Palladium posted:

this is so :psyduck: reading as a non-american

Being American is basically just getting a bunch of normal poo poo you buy set up as life-long bills

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Zugzwang posted:

Someone should’ve told Lowtax

Lowtax had a fund he owed his kids that he spent down like a dumb rear end in a top hat

He absolutely could have gotten everything paid through the forums or kickstarter or whatever but he was just a dumb spiteful rear end in a top hat who couldn't move beyond early 00s dickhead culture. I'm glad he's dead.

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

well that's a load of poo poo

The general thing you do is say "I can pay $30 a month" and just get on that forever, and it doesn't impact your credit score as long as you pay that thirty bucks a month

She's had this debt for about 15 years and didn't have a lot of savings at the time that it happened. I don't remember everything that went down, but for some reason they came at her hard and weren't really willing to take many compromises.

The whole thing was awful.

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007

Palladium posted:

this is so :psyduck: reading as a non-american

Americans spend an average of $5,000 a year on out-of-pocket healthcare costs.

Almost 60% of US adults have had medical debt at some point in their life.

70% of Americans with medical bills had to cut their food expenses to avoid bankruptcy.

Two-thirds of all personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills.

20% of medical bankruptcy filers are in the 55+ age group.

Almost half of those who filed for medical bankruptcy cite hospital bills as their most considerable expense.

39% of Americans are more worried about medical bills than Covid-19.

ex post facho
Oct 25, 2007
all grim but the last one is particularly lol

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


ex post facho posted:

all grim but the last one is particularly lol

~60% of all Americans who declare bankruptcy due to medical bills had insurance

Speaking from work experience poor people on Medicaid have better healthcare outcomes than middle income people on commercial insurance do. There are no crippling copays when you're on Medicaid so you actually get the treatment and the preventative care you need.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I had a lawyer who bought my crown debt (which I stopped paying because I was unemployed for a year) in Phoenix, this motherfucker drove down to Tucson himself to serve me. When he eventually won the judgement, went directly to my job to give them the garnishment papers (luckily I wasn't there just for how awkward that would be). But the dude actually made a math mistake on the garnishment paperwork (I guess in his defense it was a non-standard garnishment because for some reason even without me saying anything in my defense the judge set a lower % he was allowed to take than usual), so after the garnishment period he set and had approved, I actually still owed $13.57 because he filled the paperwork out wrong (I actually noticed it was wrong when he filed it). Dude actually spent like six months going back and forth with the court apparently (without talking to me, i would've just mailed him a $20 to get off my back) to get an additional garnishment for that $13.57, which he apparently tried and failed to charge interest on.

I don't know why dude cared so much. All this for what was probably a profit of maybe $1,500 for almost a year of work, if that.

PS both crowns broke before that last $13.57 and I spent a good portion of my stimulus money getting them replaced in Mexico.

Rick has issued a correction as of 05:53 on Mar 25, 2022

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

Holy poo poo.

That guy is a psychopath.

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

Platystemon posted:

Holy poo poo.

That guy is a psychopath.

People who buy debt are probably not the best that society has to offer.

jetz0r
May 10, 2003

Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing.



ex post facho posted:

Americans spend an average of $5,000 a year on out-of-pocket healthcare costs.

Almost 60% of US adults have had medical debt at some point in their life.

70% of Americans with medical bills had to cut their food expenses to avoid bankruptcy.

Two-thirds of all personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills.

20% of medical bankruptcy filers are in the 55+ age group.

Almost half of those who filed for medical bankruptcy cite hospital bills as their most considerable expense.

39% of Americans are more worried about medical bills than Covid-19.

tbh, a case of auras costing less than a doctor's visit is pretty high on the list of reasons i do not want to catch covid.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓ð’‰𒋫 𒆷ð’€𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 ð’®𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:

Checking my marketplace options



lol

I have worked for both of these companies so I guess it's only fair

What in the god drat gently caress. And you make fun of other countries.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓ð’‰𒋫 𒆷ð’€𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 ð’®𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


I've got the ultra premium private health insurance as a condition of my visa and it's 120 AU dollarydoos a month, or 90 freedom dollars.

In my Canadian province there's no private health care at all.

Edit: well you can buy it, but it's for like stuff like eyes and dental which are inexplicably not considered health care.

UnfortunateSexFart has issued a correction as of 06:11 on Mar 25, 2022

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.


Ramrod XTreme

UnfortunateSexFart posted:

I've got the ultra premium private health insurance as a condition of my visa and it's 120 AUD dollarydoos a month, or 90 freedom dollars.

In my Canadian province there's no private health care at all.
At least we’re free :911:

Idiot Kicker
Jun 13, 2007

UnfortunateSexFart posted:

What in the god drat gently caress. And you make fun of other countries.

I don't make fun of poo poo anymore except for myself

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



UnfortunateSexFart posted:

What in the god drat gently caress. And you make fun of other countries.

https://twitter.com/KiwiEV/status/1504856403877371906

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Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
or planes that can turn into non-buoyant submarines

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