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Slow News Day posted:That's not "some rando": After reading this article once more, is anyone surprised and could explain the tone? It almost seems as-if China is completely indifferent to the war itself and honestly doesn't care about the human suffering or trajectory of the Ukrainian people. And I am off the understanding that China did not want this war to happen and doesn't want to pick sides either. China's Xi and Russia's Putin might have shared interests but I think it's a big stretch to call the friends or even allies.
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Mar 25, 2022 06:09
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It’s not a stretch at all to think that China doesn’t give a drat in the slightest.
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Mar 25, 2022 07:11
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:After reading this article once more, is anyone surprised and could explain the tone? It almost seems as-if China is completely indifferent to the war itself and honestly doesn't care about the human suffering or trajectory of the Ukrainian people. China has seen significant success from actively avoiding meddling in foreign affairs (beyond Taiwan and China related matters), so it's not really a surprise that they're not interested in taking a side. There's also the popular sentiment that it's better for the US to be preoccupied with multiple opposing powers than Just China (especially after the years of saber rattling against them): https://twitter.com/LiuXininBeijing/status/1505043155682402306?s=20&t=vlmRtMpFtuGhKoFXMvWZkQ Additionally, China has its own reasons to have a dim view of NATO (or at least, reasons it can use to cast shade): https://twitter.com/HollyBlomberg/status/1504475156080517120?s=20&t=vlmRtMpFtuGhKoFXMvWZkQ And third, the sanctions have put a strain on the Dollar as a reliable constant among major powers' economies; India and Russia are cozying up further with China, Saudi Arabia is flirting with allowing China to pay for oil in Yuan, and no doubt many unaligned nations are considering their western assets. It's likely better for them to foster these relationships & paint the actions against Russia as the US playing world police at the expense of multiple economies (which, if successful, provides the question "when will the US and its related systems blow up your economy?").
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Mar 25, 2022 07:40
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Neurolimal posted:China has seen significant success from actively avoiding meddling in foreign affairs (beyond Taiwan and China related matters), so it's not really a surprise that they're not interested in taking a side. There's also the popular sentiment that it's better for the US to be preoccupied with multiple opposing powers than Just China (especially after the years of saber rattling against them): True, it's probably more intelligent, though, IMO, it shows a distinct lack of commitment to a true anti-imperialist line, which is sad. The PRC has at times historically assisted powers against imperialism but i guess being their own imperialist power is more important.
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Mar 25, 2022 12:04
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Panzeh posted:True, it's probably more intelligent, though, IMO, it shows a distinct lack of commitment to a true anti-imperialist line, which is sad. The PRC has at times historically assisted powers against imperialism but i guess being their own imperialist power is more important. I mean they learned the hard way either you be an empire or you be hosed sideways by empires.
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Mar 25, 2022 13:22
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They’ve never not been an imperial power.
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Mar 25, 2022 13:47
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You say lots of anti-imperial things while you're fighting imperial invaders at home, but once they're gone it's time to start justifying your foreign adventures.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:08
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Frustration with Covid response grows in China as daily cases near 5,000 As the Omicron variant takes hold, some say the country’s hardline approach is causing more deaths than the virus itself https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/25/frustration-with-chinas-covid-response-grows-as-daily-cases-near-5000 quote:China reported almost 5,000 Covid-19 cases on Friday, as authorities continued to battle an outbreak of the highly transmissible Omicron variant across multiple provinces and as evidence of frustration among the population grew. It seems like China may be arriving at the point where dropping 'zero covid' makes more sense than trying to maintain it with no end in sight.
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Mar 25, 2022 19:55
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What's the deal with the vaccination programme? Are they still in the rollout phase or are they in the 'everyone has had the opportunity to have one, the issue is uptake' phase?
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Mar 25, 2022 20:06
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Alchenar posted:What's the deal with the vaccination programme? Are they still in the rollout phase or are they in the 'everyone has had the opportunity to have one, the issue is uptake' phase? The vaccination rates I've seen are pretty high, but they primarily used the Sinovac vaccine and there's a major difference in effectiveness between that and the mRNA vaccines we use in the US.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:22
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Eric Cantonese posted:The vaccination rates I've seen are pretty high, but they primarily used the Sinovac vaccine and there's a major difference in effectiveness between that and the mRNA vaccines we use in the US. Double and triple shot there is virtually no difference. also that CNN article is garbage, the average Chinese person is not chomping at the bits to open up and getting a million plus citizens killed like the US.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:56
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That doesn't quite match what I've been reading, but I'm more than open to seeing sources outside what I usually get exposed to. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-20/hk-s-immunized-who-died-of-covid-mainly-got-sinovac-ming-pao EDIT: I think this is what you are talking about there being a good boost from a third Sinovac booster shot, but the percentages of elderly people who have gotten 2 shots, let alone 3 are all too low. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/sinovac-coronavirus-booster-hong-kong.html quote:More than 87 percent of China’s population has been vaccinated. But just over half of people 80 and older have had two shots, and less than 20 percent of people in that age group have received a booster, Zeng Yixin, a vice minister of the National Health Commission, said recently. Eric Cantonese fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 21:19
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Eric Cantonese posted:That doesn't quite match what I've been reading, but I'm more than open to seeing sources outside what I usually get exposed to. Vac rate has nothing to do with how effective a vaccine is though. Single shot of Pfizer has proven to be less effective against omicron variants as well. https://twitter.com/dov_levin/status/1506265848524132352?s=20&t=uV6cb0f5o1se9KvVcHAhhA
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Mar 25, 2022 21:24
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Double and triple shot there is virtually no difference. also that CNN article is garbage, the average Chinese person is not chomping at the bits to open up and getting a million plus citizens killed like the US. Eh, I dunno, I'm hearing a lot of discontent about this latest lockdown.
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Mar 25, 2022 21:27
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Double and triple shot there is virtually no difference. also that CNN article is garbage, the average Chinese person is not chomping at the bits to open up and getting a million plus citizens killed like the US. While this is probably true, there are a lot of caveats: mainland China has a similar if slightly better elderly vaccination problem to HK, the doses that were given were mostly a very long time ago, and a number of people have been given weirdo vaccines like Shenzhen Kangtai. I also think that while all vaccines are basically the same at preventing severe disease, Sinovac is demonstrably worse at preventing infection, and when you have a a lot of elderly not fully vaccinated, that's where you get the high death rates, so you want to prevent infection as well as severe disease. Also in my WeChat moments nobody is saying "good another lockdown" or "great another mandatory test" there's a hell of a lot more grumbling than there ever has been, admittedly because China has done so well over the past two years.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:24
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I appreciate y'all's perspectives speaking with actual people in China.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:34
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They still whining about that embassy thing? It was an accident and they murdered the guy who did it in a parking lot near my school
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Mar 25, 2022 23:46
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GlassEye-Boy posted:Vac rate has nothing to do with how effective a vaccine is though. Single shot of Pfizer has proven to be less effective against omicron variants as well. Is there a link to the study, or is a largely-ignored Tweet of a screenshot of a webcast all we have? I don't know how we could accurately gauge Covid sentiments in mainland, but I echo what Rabelais D said that the level of grumble in my social circles is as high as it's been since early 2020. That's not really surprising, though, since most live in the cities that are experiencing lockdowns. HK government continues to flail. The latest big solution is to send out Covid survival kits with some KN95s, rapid tests, and "proprietary traditional Chinese medicine." 
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Mar 26, 2022 01:33
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Smeef posted:Is there a link to the study, or is a largely-ignored Tweet of a screenshot of a webcast all we have?
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Mar 26, 2022 01:35
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Smeef posted:HK government continues to flail. The latest big solution is to send out Covid survival kits with some KN95s, rapid tests, and "proprietary traditional Chinese medicine." I personally cannot wait to swallow a dozen bitter spherical pills twice a day to help me ward off covid
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Mar 26, 2022 02:43
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Eric Cantonese posted:That doesn't quite match what I've been reading, but I'm more than open to seeing sources outside what I usually get exposed to. How does it happen that so few of China's elderly are triple vaxxed/boosted because with how otherwise seriously China seems to have taken covid, those numbers should be much, much higher? Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 04:08
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How are u posted:Frustration with Covid response grows in China as daily cases near 5,000 the only cited bits of this article are three comments from random citizens, a trending topic in weibo based on comments from a single hospital director, and literally one person dying. the degree to which this article uses backs the narrative it is promoting with evidence is lacking to the point of farce e: oh and a commentor complaining that shanghai isnt doing the covid zero thing hard enough A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 04:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:How does it happen that so few of China's elderly are triple vaxxed/boosted because with how otherwise seriously China seems to have taken covid, those numbers should be much, much higher? It seems to be apparently a specifically Hong Kong thing and those old fucks have a special kind of boomer brain that doesn't trust anything from the mainland.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It seems to be apparently a specifically Hong Kong thing and those old fucks have a special kind of boomer brain that doesn't trust anything from the mainland. nah that number is apparently for China as a whole, which is why I'm asking what's going on. HK had a surprising amount with no shots, mainland has a surprising amount with only 1 or 2 shots somehow?
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Mar 26, 2022 05:09
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Flip it around: why are vaccination rates so high elsewhere? Because there's essentially no other defense to the virus. Boomers are boomers everywhere, and I think this kind of reluctance is pretty normal for people. In China specifically there was less fear of the virus because of NPIs
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Mar 26, 2022 05:26
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It was also a huge policy level priority to vaccinate and boost older people in particular.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:52
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Despera posted:They still whining about that embassy thing? It was an accident and they murdered the guy who did it in a parking lot near my school Could you elaborate? I can’t tell if you’re joking.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:54
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It was also a huge policy level priority to vaccinate and boost older people in particular. it was a priority, but not as much of a priority as the national population % target, which China did manage to achieve
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Mar 26, 2022 08:26
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Herstory Begins Now posted:nah that number is apparently for China as a whole, which is why I'm asking what's going on. HK had a surprising amount with no shots, mainland has a surprising amount with only 1 or 2 shots somehow? I haven't seen any rigorous analyses of it, but I've got a few guesses: 1. Old folks, like vulnerable populations of all sorts, are just plain harder to reach. 2. You add in a reliance on modern tech, and they easily get further excluded. 3. Remote, rural areas in China tend to skew towards extremes of age due to children and grandparents staying behind while parents migrate to the cities for work, and these areas get neglected relative to the urban areas. Ghost Leviathan posted:It seems to be apparently a specifically Hong Kong thing and those old fucks have a special kind of boomer brain that doesn't trust anything from the mainland. As has already been pointed out, the mainland hasn't done a spectacular job vaccinating its elderly either. Comparing generations in HK that were born in the 50s/60s to the same generation in the US (i.e., Boomers) is nonsense. Generations, at least in the past, weren't global and universal. The kind of self-entitlement and lifetime of easy living that defines Baby Boomers could not be further from the experience of most HKers born in that era. There were probably a million refugees at the end of the civil war and another million during the Great Famine. An estimated 20-30% of population growth in the 60s and 70s came was from mainland refugees. So while I don't agree with their vaccine skepticism, it is pretty easy to understand why they might be distrustful of the mainland. And the vaccine skepticism in HK seems equally aimed at BioNTech, not just "anything from the mainland", a skepticism stoked by disinfo coming from mainland sources (Fort Dietrich! Western vaccines aren't made for Chinese genes!).
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Mar 26, 2022 10:48
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remember, last year Chinese domestic media spent Jan-Mar scaring the dickens out of the elderly on the safety of the vaccine for 60yo+. Lots of lurid stories in Chinese media. To this day Pfizer-BioNTech is not approved for use. the pivot to vaccinating seniors only occurred subsequently but then after the 2021 "two sessions" in March the refocused target was on the national population vaccination % announced by XJP in 2020 Dec anyway. In the meanwhile "covid zero" really did seem to be working. If there are no covid cases in your city, and the vaccine is rumoured to be dangerous, then why bother
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Mar 26, 2022 11:57
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I appreciate the insight you all, thanks a bunch!
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Mar 26, 2022 14:01
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Latest news in Shanghai is that they're doing a full lockdown of Pudong, and then Puxi, each for 5 days. Shanghai has been going through a weird kind of semi-lockdown. At first it was mostly tracing contacts, testing, and quarantaine at home if you had a close contact. That didn't stop omicron. Then it moved to something they called grid screening. Whole communities or wider areas were locked down for a few days if deemed at risk, requiring tests until no more cases pop up. Then a city-wide test for all the low/no-risk areas as well. A few days ago, if you weren't registered with a negative test in your health app, your code would turn yellow until you went and got a negative test. After all that, we're still getting higher numbers each day. I've been lucky so far, nothing much happening in Changning district. But it's an odd experience. For some reason cars aren't allowed to leave our community anymore, but people leaving is fine. The whole notion of social distancing seems utterly foreign, with long lines of people getting tested, and any entrance to a community or building becoming a check point which effectively turns it into a choke point.
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Mar 27, 2022 15:06
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a prediction: https://twitter.com/michaelxpettis/status/1508370937133301769 parent thread has clips: https://twitter.com/manyapan/status/1508131083510071309 I still hold to my earlier prediction of a reversal before the end of this year. China likes zero covid, but it also takes comparative national pride super seriously. And: https://twitter.com/JChengWSJ/status/1507160587943432198
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Mar 28, 2022 13:21
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Somebody find that lady visible at 0:03 and get her on Shop Til You Drop.
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Mar 28, 2022 13:36
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ronya posted:
Welcome to March 2020. My prepping photo is so old I don't bother to dig it up and post it here.
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Mar 28, 2022 13:43
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Shanghai begins locking down millions as China’s Covid cases surge China will shut down its largest city in two stages as it sticks to a ‘zero-Covid’ strategy amid growing outbreaks https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/shanghai-to-lock-down-millions-for-mass-testing-as-chinas-covid-cases-surge quote:Shanghai has begun its phased lockdown as an Omicron-fuelled Covid-19 wave spreads through mainland China’s most significant financial hub, resulting in the country seeing the highest caseloads since the early days of the pandemic.
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Mar 28, 2022 16:19
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More conspiracy theories that the US bioengineered covid and also shot down the airliner, but also: https://twitter.com/ThisIsWenhao/status/1509019993018703875
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Mar 30, 2022 07:43
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Close ties allow Russian propaganda to spread swiftly through China, report claims A cyber monitoring group says Chinese sources are amplifying disinformation about Ukrainian ‘nazism’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/31/close-ties-allow-russia-propaganda-to-spread-through-china quote:Close ties between Russian and Chinese state media along with strict government control of information have allowed Russian propaganda to spread swiftly throughout China, “nazifying” Ukraine in the eyes of some Chinese citizens and fostering pro-Russian sentiment, a new report has claimed.
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Mar 31, 2022 20:54
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ronya posted:More conspiracy theories that the US bioengineered covid and also shot down the airliner, but also: What's this all about? I don't follow basketball
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Mar 31, 2022 23:58
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How are u posted:Close ties allow Russian propaganda to spread swiftly through China, report claims Interesting. What do you think about the article?
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Apr 1, 2022 18:47
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