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HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Spoiler tag that Death Stranding poo poo.

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Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

HootTheOwl posted:

There;s some Commander Balder's Gate spoilers up.


Free death trigger every turn from legend ruling a Boo, if your first one is still alive

Poor Boo :(

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Ownership of a miniature giant space hamster implies that he has been to at least two (2) D&D settings, Spelljammer and FR, so I guess that kinda counts.

Aranan
May 21, 2007

Release the Kraken
Or he got hit in the head.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




Aranan posted:

Or he got hit in the head.

That's how a lot of people activate their spark.

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009


You all see this blurb about "Customize them [your commander? your legendaries? your deck?] with new and powerful Background cards."

I hope this isn't another Companion debacle. Maybe only certain Legendary creatures get access to Background cards so they are more flexible and customizable as your Commander.

edit: This may also be why the Precons are listed as only having 98 cards.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

AngryBooch posted:



You all see this blurb about "Customize them [your commander? your legendaries? your deck?] with new and powerful Background cards."

I hope this isn't another Companion debacle. Maybe only certain Legendary creatures get access to Background cards so they are more flexible and customizable as your Commander.

edit: This may also be why the Precons are listed as only having 98 cards.

Oh, maybe it's like Partners with but where only the background has a requirement.

Or they're like conspiracies?

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

Jiro
Jan 13, 2004

Moar Pakos forever! Forever good boy! :unsmigghh:

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009

Froghammer posted:

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

It's an incredibly deep design space that's continually being explored in this format called Commander, where singleton, deck size, and multiplayer features lead to more variations in games than they would in 4 copy 60 card competitive constructed formats.

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Froghammer posted:

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

Yeah like when you think about it it's kinda like Vanguard on mtgo where it has an enormous amount of depth of possibilities for modifying a game. But you have to trend low in powerlevel with it because if you have a tradeoff that certain decks can ignore the drawbacks of then you've suddenly created a massive imbalance.

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.




AngryBooch posted:

It's an incredibly deep design space that's continually being explored in this format called Commander, where singleton, deck size, and multiplayer features lead to more variations in games than they would in 4 copy 60 card competitive constructed formats.

Yeah but people want to play it in good formats (draft)

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

HootTheOwl posted:

Oh, maybe it's like Partners with but where only the background has a requirement.

Or they're like conspiracies?

I wonder if it'll be the sets version of Prismatic Piper. Mainly a mechanic to smooth out the deck restrictions in the draft format.

Though 2-3 years ago there was a Game Knights where they all drafted Brandon Sanderson's Commander Cube and he had a custom feature that sounds similar to help the color restriction. After you drafted you could choose an ability to attach to your commander. Mainly stuff like adding a color to your commanders identity or letting you play one minion a turn that gains your commanders creature type. Maybe they used that for inspiration.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

I wonder if it'll be the sets version of Prismatic Piper. Mainly a mechanic to smooth out the deck restrictions in the draft format.

Though 2-3 years ago there was a Game Knights where they all drafted Brandon Sanderson's Commander Cube and he had a custom feature that sounds similar to help the color restriction. After you drafted you could choose an ability to attach to your commander. Mainly stuff like adding a color to your commanders identity or letting you play one minion a turn that gains your commanders creature type. Maybe they used that for inspiration.

Command Zone Mutate

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008

My guess is that they'll be conspiracy like things that sit in your command zone giving your commander some extra ability and/or extra colour identity, and that like conspiracies they'll only be allowed in draft.

Lets them apply to any commander in a draft without cluttering up the text of every commander and without completely breaking the wider non-draft game.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Tom Clancy is Dead posted:

Obviously it can't be judged on the same Standard since it's a Commander card, but WTF that card.

It might be able to be judged in Alchemy because they're bringing a bunch of cards over for some reason lol:
https://mtgazone.com/battle-for-baldurs-gate-alchemy-horizons/

Froghammer posted:

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

I forget if it was Rosewater or Forsythe but I think one of them said the biggest problem with Companion right now is coming up with conditions that work.

fadam fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 25, 2022

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Here's a design space that could be fun for a commander product with plenty of testing.

[Keyword] Whenever ~ would be put into the graveyard, you may move it to the command zone. While it is in the command zone your commander has all static, activated, and triggered abilities on the card.

Kind of like a narrow version of Incarnations.

Froghammer
Sep 8, 2012

Khajit has wares
if you have coin

fadam posted:

I forget if it was Rosewater or Forsythe but I think one of them said the biggest problem with Companion right now is coming up with conditions that work.
I think the actual biggest problem with Companion is that they hosed up the initial batch of cards so badly that the fanbase never wants to see the mechanic come back ever again

big cummers ONLY
Jul 17, 2005

I made a series of bad investments. Tarantula farm. The bottom fell out of the market.

I wasn't around for companions, how did they gently caress them up?

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

big cummers ONLY posted:

I wasn't around for companions, how did they gently caress them up?

Two of them are insanely good with not much of a drawback and almost all the rest are useless

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
They wildly undercosted them and overestimated how far down the downsides needed to be to make up for having an 8th card.

Originally you didn't have to pay 3 to move them to your hand, and even after the entire mechanic was weakened Lurrus proved to be one of the most powerful cards ever printed.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Goa Tse-tung posted:

Brass Dragon is the wrong name. Either give it another color (hello everything about them is red!!!) and ability or just name it some crystal variant or whatever. It's exactly like making the two White Dragons in AFR actually white dragons.

I would even say it's worse since White can at least tenuously be connected to previous ice-based cards

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

Also originally you could put your companion in your hand for free which is insane

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Froghammer posted:

I think the actual biggest problem with Companion is that they hosed up the initial batch of cards so badly that the fanbase never wants to see the mechanic come back ever again

I'd be okay with it coming back if they were closer to like, Jegantha than Yorion/Lurrus.

If they banned Yorion to go with Lurrus, could they rework Companion so that it works as written without breaking any formats? I know the sea monster guy with the even deckbuilding restriction was strong in Legacy before the errata but idk if that was just hype.

fadam fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 25, 2022

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Pablo Nergigante posted:

Also originally you could put your companion in your hand for free which is insane

It didn't go into your hand, you could cast it from your sideboard.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Some land trivia

https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/679721472534659072/hey-marko-just-curious-why-plains-is-the-only

quote:

quote:

Hey Marko, Just curious why Plains is the only basic land that is plural? I’ve always been a logophile and it creates an itch that has to be scratched. I have to know! Lol
I decided to go straight to the source and asked Richard Garfield. Here’s the answer he gave:

“I struggled with 2 land types - islands and plains. Struggled is overstating it - thought a lot about. Islands were coast at one point (perhaps before magic), because I didn’t want disconnected land. It was also simply Ocean. Plains - what I really wanted was farmland but that sounded silly. Countryside also sounded strange, pasture, etc. Prairie sounded too US centric (which apparently, to a lesser extent, plains is also, I didn’t know that in pre internet days). Steppe sounded too Russian.

Anyway I settled on Plains and never really considered plain. There are some reasons for it - which probably I never consciously considered -

Plains is weird among the other land types. If you search for Mountains or Forests in dictionaries there are no separate entry for them, Plains is different, sometimes it refers to the Great Plains, sometimes it is called out as a called out plural, like - this means a collection of plains - but mountains is never called out - there is mountains (mountains plural) The dictionaries treat it differently because I think people do. A forest beast has a clear meaning and sounds right. A plain beast does not. A >plains< beast does. At least that is true to my ear. This might be because of disambiguation with ‘unadorned beast’, but I think it is more than that - and my small effort in researching it has suggested that plains as a plural is a different thing, at least slightly different, than mountains, islands, forests, and swamps.”

Abhorrence
Feb 5, 2010

A love that crushes like a mace.
Also with companions, it needs to be obvious if you have failed the deck building requirements. So, say, "only even CMC" or "no permanent with CMC greater than 2" works, but something like "exactly the same amount of even and odd CMCs" or "you have to include exactly 4 copies of each non land card in your deck" wouldn't.

Fake edit: of these, Lutei comes the closest to not working, as you might, theoretically, want to include 2 copies of a key card to make sure you draw it, and just never play the second copy if you get it. Still a huge risk though.

Dysgenesis
Jul 12, 2012

HAVE AT THEE!



I do like hearing stories about Magic during its inception. Richard Garfield every time he is invited back it produces a banger of a set (OG ravnica, OG innistrad and dominaria) it would be great if he came back for the brothers war.

Also AFAIK he created sagas in dominaria which have proved to be great design.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

Froghammer posted:

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

Froghammer posted:

I think the actual biggest problem with Companion is that they hosed up the initial batch of cards so badly that the fanbase never wants to see the mechanic come back ever again
P Sully, doxed by the double post.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
Watched the GMM video from this morning, if I would hazard a guess, the Jund family is going to have a Fight subtheme. The art for their triome is a boxing ring and Gavin said there's going to be a card in the Commander decks with a Boast ability but triggers off of Fighting instead of Attacking.

I wonder if we'll get something like
Punching Above Your Weight class
Target creature gets +3/+3 and fights target creature an opponent controls.

Or boxers that get pluses to power when fighting like pilots do for piloting.

Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 25, 2022

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

Dysgenesis posted:

I do like hearing stories about Magic during its inception. Richard Garfield every time he is invited back it produces a banger of a set (OG ravnica, OG innistrad and dominaria) it would be great if he came back for the brothers war.

Also AFAIK he created sagas in dominaria which have proved to be great design.
Mostly, yes. The designers were tasked with making cards that had a pre-programmed effect every turn, an idea they had originally thought up for how Planeswalkers would function. Richard Garfield’s design was the one that did it best.

Also they were originally kinda like Dungeons too so he can probably be credited with that at least in abstract.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
It is neat to see ideas evolve like that. Gavin has said the equipment creatures from Neon Dynasty came from taking another crack at Licids.

rickiep00h
Aug 16, 2010

BATDANCE


Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

another crack at Licids.

That was initially what I thought they seemed like. They're always trying to figure out ways to not make creature modifications two-for-ones like plain auras almost always are. Runes at least draw you a card and can attach to equipment so they're not complete trash.

Weren't Licid's originally a Phyrexian thing? Or was it literally just a Volrath thing? And, like, the way The Reality Chip works feels very much like the poo poo Licids were supposed to be like in the lore. But, y'know. More techy.

Rahu
Feb 14, 2009


let me just check my figures real quick here
Grimey Drawer

#936 :eyepop:

Wotc is going hard with the alternate arts.

Katana Gomai
Jan 14, 2007

"Thus," concluded Miyamoto, "you must give up everything you have to be my disciple."

Froghammer posted:

Patrick Sullivan talked about it a bit on Resleevables (RIP), but Companion as a mechanic is an incredibly deep design space that's now off-limits for R&D due to them completely loving up the initial launch. I can understand the desire to go back to it.

I didn't listen to the podcast but how exactly is an extra card in your starting hand "incredibly deep design space" and how can it not be completely hosed up? It breaks two of the game's most fundamental rules (random starting hand, starting hand size) in a way that can hardly be overcome by your opponent unless they also have one.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
I also haven't listened to the podcast but my suspicion is that they were probably talking about other parts of the concept (like 'rewarding deckbuilding limitations') and not the bad parts of its implementation (like 'starting with an extra card in your hand')

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Katana Gomai posted:

I didn't listen to the podcast but how exactly is an extra card in your starting hand "incredibly deep design space" and how can it not be completely hosed up? It breaks two of the game's most fundamental rules (random starting hand, starting hand size) in a way that can hardly be overcome by your opponent unless they also have one.

One design space that hasn't been properly utilized in Magic, while being routinely explored in other TCGs, is "A sideboard you can access during regular game play"

Magic has a few cards which do this (cards like Wish, Fae of Wishes, Living Wish, and Spawnsire of Ulamog which bring a card(s) in from "outside the game" for example), but there have been other games which utilize this sort of "extra deck" as a core or prominent design element (Yu-Gi-Oh's Extra Deck, Bleach's Side Deck, Raw Deal's Backlash decks with their Pre-game and Mid-match cards, Q's Tent in the Star Trek CCG, for example).

Unfortunately, Companion was a bust, and one of the most ill-received mechanics of all time, so they're unlikely to revise and revisit it anytime soon, the way they replaced Embalm with Eternalize, or Fear with Intimidate.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes
i don't think that's specifically what they want to revisit about it, since they just had the entire learn mechanic in strixhaven

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

Toph Bei Fong posted:

One design space that hasn't been properly utilized in Magic, while being routinely explored in other TCGs, is "A sideboard you can access during regular game play"

Magic has a few cards which do this (cards like Wish, Fae of Wishes, Living Wish, and Spawnsire of Ulamog which bring a card(s) in from "outside the game" for example), but there have been other games which utilize this sort of "extra deck" as a core or prominent design element (Yu-Gi-Oh's Extra Deck, Bleach's Side Deck, Raw Deal's Backlash decks with their Pre-game and Mid-match cards, Q's Tent in the Star Trek CCG, for example).

Unfortunately, Companion was a bust, and one of the most ill-received mechanics of all time, so they're unlikely to revise and revisit it anytime soon, the way they replaced Embalm with Eternalize, or Fear with Intimidate.

This is what Learn is?

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Mike N Eich
Jan 27, 2007

This might just be the year

flatluigi posted:

i don't think that's specifically what they want to revisit about it, since they just had the entire learn mechanic in strixhaven

Learn was well executed because all the cards are roughly worth less than a typical playable card, but have contextual use. It ended up being almost perfectly implemented.

I wonder how Companion would have been received if all the companions were on the same power level of say, Jegantha (mostly just a big dumb 5/5 for 5). It wouldn't have been super exciting, but decently balanced.

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