|
I spoke to someone who lives there yesterday. High COL was their main gripe.
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 06:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:16 |
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Thanks for the responses. Ireland probably has, yes, by virtue of not being run by the Tories for more than a decade.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 07:25
|
|
|
Ireland has a higher life expectancy than the UK by a full year.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 09:35
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:Thanks for the responses. The annoying answer is "it varies". Ireland doesn't have anywhere thats as mega-wealthy as the nicer parts of London. But it also doesn't have anywhere as deprived as parts of Glasgow or Northern England. If someone's got assets of £1m plus they're probably better off in the UK. But if they're in a rural area, or are working class or unemployed Ireland. So on an average whole country level the answer is probably yes I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
Blut posted:The annoying answer is "it varies". Ireland doesn't have anywhere thats as mega-wealthy as the nicer parts of London. But it also doesn't have anywhere as deprived as parts of Glasgow or Northern England. So, a few things. I went down a rabbit hole of trying to find the most deprived area of the UK and apparently it's down South in Essex, a place called Jaywick, not in Glasgow or up North. If you look at life expectancies in Ireland, places like Leitrim are shockingly low. So I think Ireland doesn't have the same mega-wealthy areas like London in the UK, but I think there are definitely extremely deprived areas, possibly even more deprived than the most deprived areas of the UK.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2022 13:48
|
|
|
Gort posted:So, a few things. Jaywick may be the most deprived local authority, but its an outlier. The vast majority of the most deprived regions in the UK are in the North of England or Scotland. I can't find a map that includes Scotland and Wales for some reason, but this is England for reference:  I'm not sure what rabbit hole you went down on Ireland, because the data doesn't match your conclusion at all. The most recent figure I can find for Leitrim, the lowest in Ireland by a significant margin, was 72.8 years for males [1] back in 2008. And Irish life expectancy for males increased by 3 years from 2008-2020[2] In parts of Glasgow male life expectancy is 66(!) as of 2021[3] . Thats almost a decade of life expectancy difference, thats a huge difference in life expectancy alone. On top of other quality of life issues like jobseekers allowance rates being almost 250% higher in Ireland, much lower crime rates in Leitrim (to run with it as an example) than the more deprived parts of the UK etc. [1]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/survey-finds-roscommon-has-highest-life-expectancy-1.827235 [2]https://publicpolicy.ie/papers/irish-population-health-life-expectancy-and-mortality-2/ [3]https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2021/feb/26/the-glasgow-effect-examining-the-citys-life-expectancy-gap-a-photo-essay
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2022 22:13
|
|
|
It's pretty telling that you're all talking about life expectancy (not defined, ie. whether it's at-birth or for all currently-living people) as if that's a major indicator for... anything. Nothing about quality of life or happiness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 01:07
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Nothing about quality of life or happiness. Apparently Finland won that again, it made people who comment in newspapers really angry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 05:30
|
|
|
Blut posted:Jaywick may be the most deprived local authority, but its an outlier. The vast majority of the most deprived regions in the UK are in the North of England or Scotland. I can't find a map that includes Scotland and Wales for some reason, but this is England for reference: His Divine Shadow posted:Apparently Finland won that again, it made people who comment in newspapers really angry I recall someone was ranting how Finland/other Nordic countries suck because they have the most people taking anti-depressants per capita of any nation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 05:50
|
|
|
punk rebel ecks posted:I recall someone was ranting how Finland/other Nordic countries suck because they have the most people taking anti-depressants per capita of any nation. Well, the Nordics are generally high in the list. However the reporting of the statistics might also be different from the different countries, with the Nordics seemingly reporting quite comprehensive compared to most other countries. https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?ThemeTreeId=9 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_antidepressant_consumption
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 07:03
|
|
|
I ain't getting any of that  Honestly though I always get the impression here doctors are extremely conversative with painkillers. I mostly got strong paracetamol after surgery. So I didn't think the same doctors would prescribe mood altering drugs easily. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Mar 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 07:43
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:Apparently Finland won that again, it made people who comment in newspapers really angry. Knowing that statistic helped my team win a pub quiz last night, so I'm pretty happy about it. (And the statistic defines happiness not as ecstatic joy, but as overall satisfaction with their current situation in life, prospects for the future, financial security and so on. It should really be called contentness instead.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 08:06
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:Apparently Finland won that again, it made people who comment in newspapers really angry. punk rebel ecks posted:So I guess it was a good thing that Ireland fought for independence. Zudgemud posted:Well, the Nordics are generally high in the list. However the reporting of the statistics might also be different from the different countries, with the Nordics seemingly reporting quite comprehensive compared to most other countries. The only thing it can be used for, is for the countries where the methodology hasn't changed over the entire 20 year span, you can see whether antidepressant use has increased or decreased. Also, I'm just ignoring the wikipedia article, because it doesn't really serve any point whatsoever - and if you don't compare across different years as they do (for example, sort descending for 2017), it paints a very different picture that you also can't use for anything because of the difference in methodology. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Mar 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 12:47
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:It's pretty telling that you're all talking about life expectancy (not defined, ie. whether it's at-birth or for all currently-living people) as if that's a major indicator for... anything. I mean I directly mentioned welfare rates and crime rates in the post above yours, which are both pretty huge for quality of life in working class areas. The life expectancy under discussion was quite clearly at birth too if you'd read any of the sources linked. But eh, sick strawman burn I guess. Life expectancy for what its worth is generally an easy singular statistic to use when measuring deprivation, if you have to focus on one. Its heavily influenced by all of disposable income, healthcare quality, crime levels, drug use, suicide and a whole host of other factors that are all at play for quality of life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
Blut posted:I mean I directly mentioned welfare rates and crime rates in the post above yours, which are both pretty huge for quality of life in working class areas. The life expectancy under discussion was quite clearly at birth too if you'd read any of the sources linked. But eh, sick strawman burn I guess. The exception being Norway and Iceland, where health is more important.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 20:24
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Right, but if you look at what matters most to the people in, say, Ireland, Great Britain vs the Nordic countries like Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, you find that the thing that the people taking the surveys care most about is life satisfaction. "Life satisfaction" is a nebulous term that has no statistical grounding. What exactly is it measured by? How does it change over time? How do different people measure it? Its not possible to make statistical observations without hard data. Which, again, is why life expectancy is regularly used as a more academically valid measure of the idea represented by "life satisfaction" because it encompasses everything that would go into the latter term. Even at its very core, unhappy people die younger. Diseases of despair are a huge factor in local life expectancy decreases in rich countries.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
Blut posted:"Life satisfaction" is a nebulous term that has no statistical grounding. What exactly is it measured by? How does it change over time? How do different people measure it? Its not possible to make statistical observations without hard data. It also has plenty of use in acedemic literature going back decades, has a working definition and gets used even now. Like I mentioned previously, life expectancy isn't as objective as you're making it out to be; go look at how many times it gets intermixed between the meaning "life expectancy for someone who's alive now" and the meaning "life expectancy for someone born right now" in academic literature. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Mar 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:It's nevertheless what matters most to people when polled. Your google scholar links list academic papers written by a grand total of 4 authors, in the history of earth, as evidence of widespread use in academic literature lol "life satisfaction" is not a respected academic measure because its entirely subjective. Life expectancy is because its empirically maths based. Theres a reason "life satisfaction" is only ever used in wishy washy theoretical popsci journalism, while life expectancy is the measure used by governments around the world to make policy. In any respectable academic paper its also listed very clearly if the discussion is of life expectancy at birth or life expectancy at X age. You've clearly never done any actual research in the field.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 12:50
|
|
|
Blut posted:Your google scholar links list academic papers written by a grand total of 4 authors, in the history of earth, as evidence of widespread use in academic literature lol A published paper by itself isn't proof of anything other than someone has had something published in a peer-reviewed journal. The number of citations, and the impact factor of the journal as well as the impact factor of the journals that the citations are published in are what matter. Science can be and often is a question of consensus - and is always in the process of changing somewhere. It's a very slippery slope to try and claim that any measure isn't academically respected because you don't recognize it. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Mar 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 14:07
|
|
|
How do you get “life satisfaction” if you’re sick?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 00:54
|
|
|
morothar posted:How do you get “life satisfaction” if you’re sick? well you could be mentally ill and oblivious
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
morothar posted:How do you get “life satisfaction” if you’re sick? I've not got the best situation health-wise, because of chronic fatigue and pain from cancer therapies due to cancer that's now in remission, and a recent COVID-19 infection leading to some long side effects, but overall I'd still say that of all the things that OECD measure, life satisfaction is probably still the most important thing. V. Illych L. posted:well you could be mentally ill and oblivious 
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 12:56
|
|
|
EDIT: Double post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 12:56
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:I didn't link the four papers themselves, I linked their google scholar entries which provide an easy way to see the almost-3000 citations in other papers. OK, but I do recognize it and think "life satisfaction" as a measure is stupid and doesn't tell you anything useful, as it is far too nebulous. Besides, you can't be satisfied with life when misery crushes you and then you die early because of bad healthcare, so your argument doesn't even make sense
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 13:27
|
|
|
morothar posted:How do you get “life satisfaction” if you’re sick? From what I understand it generally comes from not speaking English and having the translation you are given imply different things then in English.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 13:35
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:It being subjective also means that it's relative. And what would your life satisfaction be without healthcare, on an extensive waiting list for treatment, or in bankruptcy due to medical bills?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
morothar posted:And what would your life satisfaction be without healthcare, on an extensive waiting list for treatment, or in bankruptcy due to medical bills? I'm fully aware that if I'd had to pay for my healthcare at the prices that exist in the American healthcare system, I'd be millions in dept. I used to have (might still have somewhere on my storage array on my server) a spreadsheet that was my attempt to figure out what it'd cost me in total - and I think it was well in excess of several hundred thousands (although part of this was that I was converting to US healthcare pricing, which is a lot more expensive than it needs to be). I'm not sure I understand what your point is. Should I feel bad because I'm not dead and not in dept? Because that's one hell of a take to just direct at a completely random person on the internet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 22:28
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:But that's my point - since the countries we've been talking about have universal healthcare without extensive waiting lists for treatment and don't require you go bankrupt due to medical bills, I have life satisfaction even if I'm not healthy. Neither of the two countries in question have "universal healthcare without extensive waiting lists for treatment".
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 22:57
|
|
|
Blut posted:Neither of the two countries in question have "universal healthcare without extensive waiting lists for treatment".
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:01
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:There's usually a pretty big difference between waiting lists for elective healthcare and lifesaving healthcare, so I just wanna check - are you saying that lifesaveing healthcare has long waiting lists? yes some forms of life-saving surgery have serious waiting lists. usually because it's life-saving in the sense that "this is going to get gradually worse until you die in four years unless we do something by that time" rather than "this person has a pickaxe in his lung for some reason"
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 00:33
|
|
|
Pickaxe in lung waiting lists can be brutal though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yes some forms of life-saving surgery have serious waiting lists. usually because it's life-saving in the sense that "this is going to get gradually worse until you die in four years unless we do something by that time" rather than "this person has a pickaxe in his lung for some reason" 
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 12:15
|
|
|
Quoting a doomsday econ post. I can imagine Germany seeing the French destroy the Latin Monetary Union and Bretton Woods by taking unfair, unilateral advantage and going, "wait, can we do that too? Neat!" Mr Hootington posted:The free market finds ways "Wait, what do you mean my political union is dying? But... but... peace project! democracy! Human rights! You can vote! There's eurovision! Why are you a populist racist????"
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2022 13:43
|
|
|
So how bout that French election
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
Fuligin posted:So how bout that French election https://twitter.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1512487469173800960 A bit too tight for my liking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 00:31
|
|
|
to know the EU is going to die in my lifetime. Wow.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
I'm honestly scared about the prospects of that French election. We could probably deal with Orban fine, but another Russian stooge undermining EU and world peace right from the top of an European powerhouse, that is going to be a massive problem for all of us. Much like the UK's spiral into complete poo poo can basically be blamed on David Cameron being a complete idiot at the worst possible time, I'd say France's woes are entirely traced to Macron spending his whole presidency doing nothing but riling the people instead of fixing any relevant issues. Good job, Macron.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 01:08
|
|
|
le pen, imo, is a french nationalist who takes support from where-ever. she is not loyal to the EU mission and has her own reactionary agenda (which is in russia's interest to promote), but i think it's simplifying it too much to call her a russian stooge. she's dodged a lot of flak about being associated with putin this far by sort of shifting the attention over to zemmour, but if i had to choose or die i would choose macron ten times out of ten. he's going to make the "votez escroc mais pas facho" argument and be convincing enough to pull through. next election, though...
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 03:01
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:le pen, imo, is a french nationalist who takes support from where-ever. she is not loyal to the EU mission and has her own reactionary agenda (which is in russia's interest to promote), but i think it's simplifying it too much to call her a russian stooge. she's dodged a lot of flak about being associated with putin this far by sort of shifting the attention over to zemmour, but if i had to choose or die i would choose macron ten times out of ten. he's going to make the "votez escroc mais pas facho" argument and be convincing enough to pull through. Maybe she's not a Russian stooge. But her interests align with Russia which is a return to pre 1945 European politics. All she has to do is put a referendum in front of the people who voted for her and it will ensure that they can leave the EU just as she wants. Then they can set up nice big barricades around Spain Germany and Italy to prevent the free movement of people. Leave EU enter trade union with UK as a new European power base.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 03:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:16 |
|
|
yes, if le pen is president the EU in its present form is done. i just really do not think she's going to be president - or, to be honest, that the EU in its present form is a force for good* *i do not think that le pen would make the EU better - i just don't think the macron-[scholz|merkel] EU is a project worth a lot of support on its own terms
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2022 03:19
|
|