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Yeah that would be an improvement. Some of the better scenes are actually between rank-ups in my opinion. Like the one where you go fishing with Ryuji and run into "master" Kawakami.
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Mar 30, 2022 15:59
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:03 |
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lol at proposing changing the calendar, which is the most important part of modern persona. both the gameplay decisions of how to spend your time and the overall themes of opening yourself to the world. I think the problem is just weak writing, and it's difficult to write well when it's so diluted across so many s-links. it'd be cool if they had fewer s-links, but better writing and more variable paths. if your choices actually had consequences, rather than just being +1 or +0 to your relationship. it'd also be amazing if relationships with the characters could effect the main plot, and vice versa. also, this might be a controversial take, but if they can't do that, then they shouldn't hide character development in s-links. it's so annoying when a character actually develops over the course of their s-link, only for it to disappear in the main plot, or be unremarked upon. I also think they should steal the support scenes between npcs from FE: three houses. I thought that was a really good idea. imagine if in p5, you could skip that stupid ryuji morgana fight by having them support each other in battle / decisions, and have it dynamically be the two members of your team that get along the least have a fight. It'd make the world feel much more alive. having party members have s-links is something the writing team just can't figure out. a great example is makoto's s-link. within the main plot she's one of my fav characters, but her s-link is a wet fart, that barely involves her. on the other hand I thought kanji's was really good. it definately seems that they often struggle to fill the 10 "event" levels. why even do that? just have as many as you can write well. no need for filler. while I'm spitballing here, it'd be cool if they moved away from high school. if they could just have shorter sweeter 20-30 hour games, rather than huge ones. they wouldn't have to do a whole year. then again, in all of the modern persona games, there are always huge time skips. no matter what, the next persona game will be a day one purchase for me. even if they barely change anything at all. these games are so comfortable and nostalgic for me. even P5, which I considered a disappointment relative to 4, was still amazing. I just hope atlus gets their heads out of their rear end and releases it for pc (and ports p5r!)
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Mar 30, 2022 16:11
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For a hypothetical Persona 6, there are a few things I've seen over the series I'd like. Give me a 100 hour game. Generally that's way too long for a single game, with the Persona games I love sitting down at the beginning knowing I have a marathon ahead of me. I've done multiple playthroughs of 3, 4, and 5, so I say keep that coming. I like the calendar. It's not perfect by any means, but I enjoy the time management as well as the segmented time slots you're given. It was also good for pacing in 3, as you know every full moon you're going to have the next story event, and the others gave you a day limit when the heist or midnight tv broadcast started. That could be clarified a bit. However, it is absolute bullshit when the game just goes "whoop, you're sick" and you lose a week of game time. If it sticks to a calendar, you should also know what's coming. The biggest problem I find with the calendar is it pushes the player to speed run the dungeon so they have more social time slots. I don't think they can completely decouple dungeon time from the calendar and still have the time management be as relevant, but maybe they can balance that out better. I don't so much mind the proc-gen dungeons. Tartarus was the best, imo, because you could generally speed through them, but they at least stick the other gameplay loops together. The hand crafted dungeons in 5 were alright, but some of the puzzle floors were just obnoxious. Vanilla Mementos was pretty bad though, probably due to the unchanging elevator music. I don't really like party member social links being so tied to character growth. In that regard I like P3's system better, where they all had their own lives and influences, and didn't need the MC to solve all their problems. Which, to be fair, is how every other person you deal with works, but you miss things like death of a friend being a character defining moment, and you get the weird disconnect between how a character acts in story, vs. what their link growth shows. And it's been brought up lots before, but some of them are just awful, or open up so late you have to reschedule everyone else to try to bring a new character up to speed. It's also a stupid detail, but I was always unreasonably happy for the Fool link for the team evolving to the Judgement and missed that in 5. Maybe also no gay jokes in the next one.
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Mar 30, 2022 17:37
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Mirello posted:I think the problem is just weak writing, and it's difficult to write well when it's so diluted across so many s-links. it'd be cool if they had fewer s-links, but better writing and more variable paths. if your choices actually had consequences, rather than just being +1 or +0 to your relationship. it'd also be amazing if relationships with the characters could effect the main plot, and vice versa. I think the VO is the major obstacle here tbh, as the size of the game would balloon even more if they had to record a ton of additional dialogue just in case certain flags are set. It'd be basically perfect if they did that though, even if it was just to the telltale games level of "Ryuji will remember this" and then some minor dialogue differences to reflect that later on. The more they can integrate the slice of life S-link stuff into the game as a whole the happier I'll be tbh And yeah, it'd be nice if they could figure out a good way to balance the dungeon stuff vs the slice of life stuff so that the game wasn't kind of twisting your arm into running the entire dungeon in a single dive. Or maybe the dungeons are just shorter segments that progressively unlock Tartarus style and don't take up all the rest of your daily slots when you go them?
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Mar 30, 2022 17:45
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Or maybe the dungeons are just shorter segments that progressively unlock Tartarus style and don't take up all the rest of your daily slots when you go them? It seems like they kinda thought of something like this with Madarame's dungeon, where you got to the security fence and had to do something in his house again. If they broke up each dungeon that slower or less confident players could still progress each step fully with a bit of work, the faster players could still make 100% progress each time. It might be annoying to hit the end when you still have enough resources to continue, and it might take you out of the dungeoning groove to go do some busywork irl again, but it might be a better balance.
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Mar 30, 2022 17:50
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It seems like they kinda thought of something like this with Madarame's dungeon, where you got to the security fence and had to do something in his house again. If they broke up each dungeon that slower or less confident players could still progress each step fully with a bit of work, the faster players could still make 100% progress each time. That's true It'd also reduce the satisfaction of getting to the end of the dungeon and having the huge list of objectives you completed roll across the scene like in P5, which was always funny. It really feels like they set the game up for the dungeons to take multiple days, but there was just too many ways to avoid doing that trivially. Honestly some of the dungeons were pretty big slogs going through them for like 6 hours or whatever, but it feels like such a punishment to compromise another day of slice of life stuff cause you still have to finish the plot dungeon. It would be less of a chore if they allowed a "dungeon/mementos/whatever" slot during the day in addition to the slice of life slots that could optionally be used for some social links or something once you've completed it. If they're worried about people power leveling or something they could borrow the fatigue system from P3 so that the more often you go the more of your people become available/more stat downs you get
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Mar 30, 2022 17:57
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I think a good compromise would be to gate some social link progress for party members by plot, like they did with Sojiro's link that can only progress after recruiting Futaba. That way the social link can be closer tied to the character development in the game. Ideally, the character would have some defining moment in the game, which could be elaborated on in the social link. It could also just showcase that the characters are getting closer through the game. Using a hypothetical Makoto social link that is actually about her as an example, Makoto would at first keep Joker at a distance, because that seems in character for her. She'd try to talk with him a bit about his situation at school, student council stuff, the likes. As time passes, she grows more comfortable around the group and eventually confides a bit more of her problems with her sister to him, say after Futaba's palace. The final ranks are locked until after Sae's palace. I guess the problem with this approach would be that I find it a bit frustrating if one link is blocked off and the others advance further. Maybe it wouldn't feel like that if several links were that way? It worked pretty well with Sumire's link. For the first half, you are only casual aquaintances and it shows. The second half is locked until the final part and it's very different. Of course that is an extreme example, and for me at least it meant that I hadn't really talked to her for half a year. The idea behind it was good, and obviously it has to work that way, but it could have been better paced. Now that I think of it, all three Royal links had some sort of plot gate. Maybe they wanted to try this out?
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Mar 30, 2022 20:37
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Sojiro is also plot gated in both versions, but the game doesn't tell you that, so it's easy to end up wasting time trying to hang out with him before Futaba opens up.
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Mar 30, 2022 20:40
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Caligula Effect 2 handles the character episodes by gating them mostly by plot progression, so you don't have a case of the characters developing before they're ready in the main plot. Although something I'd like is generally to make the character relationships feel less transactional in nature by removing some of the gamification elements around that and make the plots and what we learn about them good enough to be their own rewards. I do get that this is a part of the game's challenge and loop design, but on some level I feel like doing so ends up kinda cheapening what you're doing. Maybe I've been blaming the calendar system for what has just been less-good character writing or thematic depth?
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Mar 31, 2022 00:31
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Going back a bit the main villain of Vanilla Persona 5 was almost great but they didn't quite stick the landing. That's because the main villain wasn't Shido but Fake Igor, with the traitor being an obvious distraction. The reason they didn't stick the landing is that although the main villain is officially the same character as the final boss there's basically no continuity. He just turns into two Super Saiyan forms with abilities that were basically ridiculous semi-generic powers. If he'd been semi-recycling dialogue and instead of his bell, book, and candle (I know there wasn't a candle) he'd been hitting you with e.g. Gallows, guillotine, and electric chair I think there could have (a) been a very memorable final boss and (b) an even stronger will of rebellion theme.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:11
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Shido's greatest contribution to the game is Rivers in the Desert.
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Mar 31, 2022 10:22
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Was Rivers in the Desert that fight? I could have sworn it was the one for the chalice-shaped Yaldabaoth fight.
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Mar 31, 2022 10:29
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Neeksy posted:Was Rivers in the Desert that fight? I could have sworn it was the one for the chalice-shaped Yaldabaoth fight. It gets reused, which is a bit disappointing.
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Mar 31, 2022 11:11
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Been a while since I've played 5, getting around to Royal soonish I think, but as far as I remember the difference was Samael was just the instrumental while the Grail included the lyrics.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:50
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Phase 1 of both Shido and the Grail were instrumental, Phase 2 had the lyrics for Rivers in the Desert.
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Mar 31, 2022 12:59
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Wasn’t the instrumental portion of the fight a Royale change? It has been a while since I played vanilla, but the first phase with the instrumental really stood out to me I’m Royale.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:40
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It's been a minute since I played the original version, but I'm preeeetty sure it was always instrumental for the first phase, and then lyrics for all the other uses.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:13
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AngryRobotsInc posted:It's been a minute since I played the original version, but I'm preeeetty sure it was always instrumental for the first phase, and then lyrics for all the other uses. I'm extremely positive it's this. Instrumental for the Beast/Wings/Tomb of Human Sacrifice, and the full version for every other time, including the first battle against the Grail.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:18
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I thought the bit where he turned into Senator Armstrong was new to Royal but I haven't played base P5 since release.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:19
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Feels Villeneuve posted:I thought the bit where he turned into Senator Armstrong was new to Royal but I haven't played base P5 since release. The bit where he gets really buff was in the original. The part where he goes "1v1 me bicth" is new to Royal.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:20
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Arist posted:The bit where he gets really buff was in the original. The part where he goes "1v1 me bicth" is new to Royal. The new bit is also really cool, if not very difficult.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:27
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I died to it so I can't really talk there
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Mar 31, 2022 16:27
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Arist posted:I died to it so I can't really talk there I admittedly was on normal difficulty so like, maybe it's much worse on higher difficulties, I can easily imagine it.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:30
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still a big fan of the boss in Royal which is harder on Normal than on the hardest difficulty
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Mar 31, 2022 16:34
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Feels Villeneuve posted:still a big fan of the boss in Royal which is harder on Normal than on the hardest difficulty I take it you mean Okumura? Because I think the same's true of Madarame and the Royal-only boss. And I'd advise anyone to play Royal on Merciless on general principles; if you play well it's probably easier than Normal overall - but it almost forces you to play well.
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Mar 31, 2022 17:03
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yeah tbh Persona is not a difficult game and the only real problems I had on Merciless were early when you can occasionally get oneshot in the first dungeon
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Mar 31, 2022 17:11
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Lol I got surprised by that seventh palace fight because I was going off my memories of the original and thought "oh I can start using my high-end consumables to smooth this fight out" and then whoops
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Mar 31, 2022 17:15
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I think most people get past the new Shido phase using Reflect/Null Phys personas, since all he does is buff himself and punch you in the face. Maybe he has a single Almighty attack that he uses occasionally? Those personas are extremely OP in general so you've probably got at least one of Randa, Arahabaki, cyclops elephant guy, or at the very least Shiki Ouji on you even if you don't know that this fight is coming The themes of both the original and to some extent Royal fall flat to some extent because the game begins and ends with Joker getting trampled underfoot by corrupt institutions despite the entire point of the game being a criticism of said institutions in Japanese culture. Yeah his sentence gets cut down to a couple of months but even a couple of months in jail is not exactly a picnic, and the fact of the matter is that he is still completely innocent. That and the shitlib politics of ultimately blaming corrupt social institutions on apathy and not, you know, the deliberate, organized, and very bloody dismantling of collectivist social institutions during the postwar period. I can't speak to how Japanese politics played out in that regard but I imagine it's pretty similar to how things went down in Europe and North America.
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Mar 31, 2022 19:23
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I named my Phantom Thieves the Zengakuren because of that very point lol. shitlib politics is pretty much right and I dunno, I read some of the later stuff as displaying the value of mutual aid in the face of a system that will not and cannot take care of its people, but I take what I can get out of it lol
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Mar 31, 2022 20:15
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the most unintentionally on-point thing was when it was kind of implied that Okamura wasn't really doing anything any other company owner was doing lol
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Mar 31, 2022 20:32
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Feels Villeneuve posted:the most unintentionally on-point thing was when it was kind of implied that Okamura wasn't really doing anything any other company owner was doing lol He was hiring a mind assassin to go after his competitors and his competitors employees so that is probably unique to him. Other than that yeah I don't think he's that unique. Also yeah the ending is not great.
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Mar 31, 2022 20:42
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Sapozhnik posted:I think most people get past the new Shido phase using Reflect/Null Phys personas, since all he does is buff himself and punch you in the face. Maybe he has a single Almighty attack that he uses occasionally? Those personas are extremely OP in general so you've probably got at least one of Randa, Arahabaki, cyclops elephant guy, or at the very least Shiki Ouji on you even if you don't know that this fight is coming Apathy is the main operating mode for most Japanese when it comes to politics. The only party that matters is basically what you’d get if in the 1950s the Dems gave up and merged with the Republicans out of fear that socialist parties might actually gain power. they’ve been in power for like 60 of the last 65 years and that one party combined with what happened the last time leftists had any real momentum (within a few years conservatism surged and the socialist party died) politics is seen as a games for fools and crooks. Persona 5 is a game made in that mindset. You’re right that it’s absolutely dumb and a result of systematic pressure to keep conservatism in power from within and without, but it almost strikes me as nihilism rather than liberalism. Edit: the history of the Japanese Socialist Party is basically a bingo card of every thing that could go wrong for a left party. Conservatives and liberals merging to prevent them taking power, the CIA funding that party to prevent them from taking power, right wing assassinations, left wing inter- and intra-party squabbling, Blair-esque assholes taking power and sprinting towards the center, stupid political scandals, truly a laundry list of reasons to tune out of politics forever DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 21:24
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https://youtu.be/PZ-QK-16WgA
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Apr 5, 2022 19:33
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gently caress, that vid made me order out for gyudon at 4:30 in the morning LOL
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Apr 5, 2022 21:30
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I think I'll make gyudon today, I have half an onion in the fridge
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Apr 6, 2022 16:24
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https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1511731707715719179 Cool.. tweet of your games' opening I guess? I guess it did release in April outside of Japan, so this is a 5 year anniversary thing I suppose. They're just teasing us at this point. Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 20:52
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They've been posting every opening weekly for months now
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Apr 6, 2022 21:09
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Arist posted:They've been posting every opening weekly for months now Oh, well in that case I'm just dumb
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Apr 6, 2022 21:18
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I know the song says you’ll never see it coming but in this case you probably should have
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Apr 6, 2022 21:36
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| # ? May 25, 2024 00:03 |
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https://twitter.com/Windows/status/1514727937957937163?t=lkyi4ezdPvnULXclENvSVA&s=19 What the gently caress???????
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Apr 15, 2022 02:09
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