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it is genuinely astonishing to see a political party work itself into a state where it can do nothing but destroy itself. I'm sure I've said like "lol the breaks are coming off" a million times but seeing the cliff come in to focus and watching these guys still hammering the accelerator is something I just don't have the words for even if you imagine they somehow don't get destroyed in november (lmao), and again in 24 (bigger lmao), it's pretty clear that there's no turning this boat around. the last year and change has only ever been "we can't do that" or "we won't do that" and then watching them pointedly ignore these gigantic catastrophes and unforced errors. it's not even biden (though he sucks poo poo)! no democrat can do or is willing to do anything about anything: they're captured by the algorithm and the incredible negative inertia of their shambolic party/nephew job generator. good riddance, dems. these next few years are going to be buck wild.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:44
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hailthefish posted:oh yeah there's no way anyone in the party consciously understands that, I mean maybe they understand that they're there to please the donors not to rock the boat, but for the most part I think they're just genuinely a bunch of small c conservatives who are so high on their own supply wrt the neoliberal consensus and triangulation logic that they don't have any other way to comprehend the universe. add the big dollar donors they need to placate for the money to run campaigns and lobbying jobs to retire to and presto, the dems are, were, and forever will be poo poo. Gotcha. I think I understood your tweet to imply that this was more of a deliberate construction, whereas I think it's really just a natural consequence of the status quo but I think we're essentially saying the same thing
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Mar 30, 2022 21:44
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:it is genuinely astonishing to see a political party work itself into a state where it can do nothing but destroy itself. I'm sure I've said like "lol the breaks are coming off" a million times but seeing the cliff come in to focus and watching these guys still hammering the accelerator is something I just don't have the words for I’ve probably said it in this thread before but honestly, I don’t have a good answer for what I think the democrats should do legislatively (although executive stuff like student debt and closing Guantanamo and ending the forever war would definitely help). Even if they wrangled Manchin and Sinema and whoever else is waiting to rotate in, SCOTUS and our insanely awful lower courts and state governments would chew up anything they managed to pass. There’s no way they’re getting the tools they would need to do that (expansion of SCOTUS, real anti-gerrymandering poo poo, actually investigating state and local politicians) with how our electoral systems work But the thing is it didn’t have to be this way. The democrats are in this situation because they’ve spent the last 40 years putting themselves in this position, seemingly on purpose. I don’t think there’s any electoral way for them to fix themselves, which works out well because their members and loyalists don’t want to do that anyway. Maybe electing Bernie in 2016 could have done it but that’s unlikely given how he’s acted since his last loss I think electoralism plainly can’t work and I’m certainly not gonna go form a vanguard party all by my drat self so ultimately all I have left is to laugh as they destroy themselves.
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Mar 30, 2022 21:57
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DoubleDonut posted:Individual democrats want to win but they definitely do not want the Democratic Party to be in power. Pelosi will never give up her spot but she wants to be leader of the opposition party, not speaker of the house nah, she totally prefers being speaker to minority leader. better office, more privileges, more power. but what she and the other democrat leaders will always refuse to do, is sacrifice their personal hold on power in exchange for communal victory. so they refuse to move even one step to the left, even when it costs them elections, not because they don't want to win, but because winning is meaningless if they personally aren't the winner. and moving left is how you lose the money and power that keeps you on top of the party. DoubleDonut posted:I’ve probably said it in this thread before but honestly, I don’t have a good answer for what I think the democrats should do legislatively (although executive stuff like student debt and closing Guantanamo and ending the forever war would definitely help). if the democrats wants to risk their personal power in exchange for saving this nation, i will point out that our current constitution was written at a convention following its own rules rather than the rules of the previous order. but that would require risk taking, imagination, and most importantly loyalty to party over donors. Trabisnikof has issued a correction as of 22:01 on Mar 30, 2022 |
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Mar 30, 2022 21:59
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Trabisnikof posted:nah, she totally prefers being speaker to minority leader. better office, more privileges, more power. yeah this is probably more correct. still, I think a significant amount of party leadership wants to stay in second place so they can fundraise without being expected to do anything
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Mar 30, 2022 22:01
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DoubleDonut posted:I’ve probably said it in this thread before but honestly, I don’t have a good answer for what I think the democrats should do legislatively (although executive stuff like student debt and closing Guantanamo and ending the forever war would definitely help). Pass laws. Congress literally writes the laws of the land. They decide what is illegal and what is not. Lower courts, states, supreme court, all that poo poo is allowed or permitted to intervene because congress is allowing it. All the dems have to do to do everything they could ever want is pass laws. I cannot overstate the power that congress possesses nor can I overstate the opportunity that a party in control of both the executive and legislative branches holds.
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Mar 30, 2022 22:07
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If the supreme court says XYZ doesn't agree with the law, then pass a law to change that! Or include in the original bill a literal provision that the troublesome law doesn't apply! Congress already does this all the time with spending bills. They include in the statues that the current laws and rules on spending being paid for and poo poo like that don't apply to the bill in question.
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Mar 30, 2022 22:09
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bedpan posted:If the supreme court says XYZ doesn't agree with the law, then pass a law to change that! Or include in the original bill a literal provision that the troublesome law doesn't apply! Judicial review is nowhere in the constitution. You can just ignore it if you like. Don't tell Trump tho.
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Mar 30, 2022 22:19
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/natashakorecki/status/1509257342763810824?s=20&t=q9YwXROyviGDpjyO2QHW0Q Fact check: false. The thumbnail caption has him saying "we gotta do things" so they'll never let him win
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Mar 30, 2022 22:33
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politics is an industry now and since we live in capitalism the goal is to make the most money. no one is working towards the public good.
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Mar 30, 2022 22:52
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:"lol the breaks are coming off" lol
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Mar 30, 2022 22:56
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hailthefish posted:saw a tweet a while ago laying out the theory that the dems don't WANT to lose, they're just the washington generals of politics, their purpose is to perform all the outward appearances of a political party that's trying to win, with sufficient verisimilitude as to not challenge anyone's suspension of disbelief and to provide a good show for the audience, but always while operating within a constrained rule set that guarantees they usually lose and only win essentially by accident yeah, the constrained rule set includes limitations on what they can accomplish upon winning as well. a phony democracy requires the aesthetic of change - stumbling into victory sometimes is important for general public perception and then doing as little as possible is the other part of the job. I tend to look at it more in a machine-like way than anything they are consciously 'doing'
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Mar 30, 2022 23:24
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The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 Edit: I am pro-destruction and it brings me no joy to report this
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Mar 30, 2022 23:34
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 
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Mar 30, 2022 23:36
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 what the gently caress did you just say to me?
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Mar 30, 2022 23:36
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DoubleDonut posted:I’ve probably said it in this thread before but honestly, I don’t have a good answer for what I think the democrats should do legislatively (although executive stuff like student debt and closing Guantanamo and ending the forever war would definitely help). The parliamentarian isn't real, the filibuster is only real as they want it to be, they could force poo poo through the Senate in the middle of the night if they were willing to discard norms and precedents in order to achieve things. But their entire morality and worldview is that politeness and norms and precedents are sacrosanct, that compromising with the opponent is in and of itself virtuous and desirable, that the ideal state of affairs is how it was at some arbitrary point in the recent past, but possibly sightly more polite. And ultimately they don't give a poo poo about accomplishing the things that are broadly popular with real people in this lovely country because the people those things are popular with aren't billionaires or individually politically influential. On top of that, libs genuinely seem to believe that actually delivering things for your constituency is cheating somehow, that the platonic ideal of politics is to win votes purely on emotional speeches and logic and reason and good advertising, and that actually delivering material improvements is winning by bribery. (But the actual bribery from donors is fine)
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Mar 30, 2022 23:39
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 This is violence
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Mar 30, 2022 23:57
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:it is genuinely astonishing to see a political party work itself into a state where it can do nothing but destroy itself. I'm sure I've said like "lol the breaks are coming off" a million times but seeing the cliff come in to focus and watching these guys still hammering the accelerator is something I just don't have the words for Schrodinger's system: It's both broken and working exactly as intended, which is to propel wealth upwards. All that happened in the past six or seven years is that between Trump and covid, the gloves came off of neoliberalism and they're not willing to even pretend to care about us anymore.
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Mar 31, 2022 00:46
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 how FUKCIGN DARE you come into my house and disrespect me like this
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Mar 31, 2022 00:52
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 They'll always exist. If they lose every seat in congress this time, they will win back some and maybe (probably not) even the presidency just by being not-Trump. And after Trump, not-Republican. Which I imagine is exactly all they'll be from here on out.
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Mar 31, 2022 01:35
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As long as there's an arcane procedure to enforce for no benefit, the democrats will be there As long as there's an oppressed minority who can have token representation, the democrats will be there As long as there's a middle ground between center right and far right, the democrats will be there As long as there's poverty that can be tested and measured, the democrats will be there
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Mar 31, 2022 01:43
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God drat, I’m not getting my student loans forgiven, am I? It’s been upsetting finding out how much of a single issue voter I’ve become since that was floated. Like, I would absolutely overlook some heinous poo poo on a campaign platform if the student loan thing was a lock.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:00
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there's a small possibility that trump might do some of the things biden campaigned and welshed on out of spite. i wouldn't count on it, though.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:09
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:there's a small possibility that trump might do some of the things biden campaigned and welshed on out of spite. i wouldn't count on it, though. he will absolutely 100% say that he is going to do them. just because it makes biden look bad.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:24
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Broadlybrowsing posted:God drat, I’m not getting my student loans forgiven, am I? never believe anything a democrat promises they will never, ever deliver, and after they fail to deliver they will turn around and ask why you aren't singing their priases, because they promised you that thing, remember?
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Mar 31, 2022 02:29
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empty whippet box posted:never believe anything a democrat promises If only you donate more, volunteer more, and vote as hard as you can, they will definitely do it next time.
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Mar 31, 2022 02:34
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Step 1 organize Step 2 vote Step 3 .... Step 4 medicare?
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Mar 31, 2022 02:37
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Broadlybrowsing posted:God drat, I’m not getting my student loans forgiven, am I? Fellatio del Toro posted:just saw an article about this Secure Act 2.0 which allows victims of domestic violence to make a one time penalty free withdrawal of up $10000 from an eligible retirement account and it's the most dem brained way to help dv victims ive ever heard of Ham Equity posted:Holy gently caress, this isn't even the stupidest loving thing in that bill: they're going to let people use 401k contributions and the employer match to pay down student loans instead of save for retirement. Because it's not like you're going to be able to retire anyhow, right?
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Mar 31, 2022 04:33
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bedpan posted:Pass laws. Congress literally writes the laws of the land. They decide what is illegal and what is not. Lower courts, states, supreme court, all that poo poo is allowed or permitted to intervene because congress is allowing it. I don't think that writing magic words in a bill that say "no take backsies" is going to prevent lower courts from saying "gently caress you this is unconstitutional" and state governments from saying "gently caress you we're not enforcing this" and cops from saying "gently caress you we're going to arrest your kids for no reason and keep killing whoever we want"
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Mar 31, 2022 05:00
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Well yeah but by that logic anarchy.
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Mar 31, 2022 05:02
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My point is that the democrats have spent decades empowering people who will do exactly that and making sure that they have not and will not experience consequences for doing it
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Mar 31, 2022 05:04
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DoubleDonut posted:My point is that the democrats are going to get destroyed in 2022
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Mar 31, 2022 05:07
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Cloks posted:are going to get destroyed in 2022 
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Mar 31, 2022 05:07
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Homeless Friend posted:good news Destruction is too good for the dems
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Mar 31, 2022 05:11
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Democratia delenda est, MMDCCLXXIV ab urbe condita
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Mar 31, 2022 05:20
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ikanreed posted:The democrats will continue to exist as a political party in 2022 the ones who lose will continue to be wealthier and more powerful than any of us ever will
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Mar 31, 2022 09:05
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:there's a small possibility that trump might do some of the things biden campaigned and welshed on out of spite. i wouldn't count on it, though. he could just offer to give everyone the $600 that joe stiffed them and he'd likely win
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Mar 31, 2022 10:16
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empty whippet box posted:politics began making so much more sense to me once I accepted that the dems are always trying to lose by exactly enough to continue fundraising at maximum capacity and every victory they've scored has been an accident that they desperately seek to undo as soon as they can. christmas boots posted:This might be a hot take, but I think Dems actually do try and win, it's just that they're incapable of realizing that the only ways to do so are outside of the boxes that they have confined themselves in. Like just that they fundamentally can't conceive of any actions they might take outside of the overton window as it exists. I would say that they don't care about winning and losing at all because they are not a political party as they lack a political project--they aren't trying to accomplish anything politically. They are wholly a brand funded by people wanting to aesthetically differ from republicans. The only extent that winning and losing figure into it at all is in calculating the next profit cycle. So you're both right.
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Mar 31, 2022 13:22
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fast cars loose anus posted:Fact check: false. The thumbnail caption has him saying "we gotta do things" so they'll never let him win He's an Allan Keyes type. Exists to lose elections.
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Mar 31, 2022 14:19
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Cloks posted:what the gently caress did you just say to me? TehSaurus posted:This is violence empty whippet box posted:how FUKCIGN DARE you come into my house and disrespect me like this Amazing, you all spout on and on how the dems will never do anything, and then when faced with the reality that ceasing to exist is something and therefore not possible for the dems to do you melt down.
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Mar 31, 2022 14:26
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