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Gumball Gumption posted:I hope the people on my team have a change of heart and stop their corruption but in the end it doesn't really matter. It's like nationalism writ small. 
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Mar 31, 2022 15:37
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Solkanar512 posted:Then stop discussing it and get out. You've all made your point that you think the entire nation are all irredeemable and the only solution is a communist revolution. The point has been made repeatedly and yet it keeps coming up again and again and again.  eta: that's an interesting choice of revision to make, Solkanar. Solkanar512 posted:What are you doing here then? You've all made your point that you think the entire nation are all irredeemable and the only solution is a communist revolution. The point has been made repeatedly and yet it keeps coming up again and again and again. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 15:38
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Solkanar512 posted:Then stop discussing it and get out. You've all made your point that you think the entire nation are all irredeemable and the only solution is a communist revolution. The point has been made repeatedly and yet it keeps coming up again and again and again. It's really heartwarming to see liberals mending the political divide by embracing the conservative mantra of "if you don't like it, leave"
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Mar 31, 2022 15:39
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Lib and let die posted:Senator Armstrong was right: America is diseased, rotten to the core, and there's no saving it. "The weak will be purged and the strongest will thrive - free to live as they see fit, they'll make America great again!" - Senator Armstrong
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Mar 31, 2022 15:40
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RBA Starblade posted:"The weak will be purged and the strongest will thrive - free to live as they see fit, they'll make America great again!" - Senator Armstrong I would unironically love to have a longform discussion on the politics and social commentary of the Metal Gear/Solid/Rising universe. I think Kojima is one of the most prescient sci-fi writers of our time who should be held up alongside names like Orwell and Huxley.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:43
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Solkanar512 posted:What are you doing here then? You've all made your point that you think the entire nation are all irredeemable and the only solution is a communist revolution. The point has been made repeatedly and yet it keeps coming up again and again and again. Gonna circle back to this after the 2024 election and see what your feelings about America are then (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2022 15:43
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The laptop story is just the narrative, most partisans won’t care, but there will be a slice of “independent” voters, maybe people with a drug conviction or related to someone with one, maybe people who have experience the effects of corruption, that will be turned off by this. As a vote mover, on its own, it’s not much. It’s a little more powerful as part of a narrative: the president who won’t do poo poo to alleviate the lives of working Americans bends over backwards for his corrupt son. Especially on the drug stuff: Biden is an immense hypocrite there. It’s a handcrafted setup for a Trump stinger: “But he loves his son, too bad he doesn’t love his country. Sad!” What the laptop will be useful for is setting up a narrative for impeachment that is far more coherent, to the average voter, than what the Dems offered up for Trump. It’ll be very simple: a president covering for his corrupt son. It might not actually rise to the level of impeachability on paper, but who cares? Those rules don’t matter. I dunno that it will succeed, I just think the odds are extremely likely we’re going to be talking about it for weeks if not months in the not-too-distant future, because as a party the Democrats have collapsed into a rump corporate rent-seeking enterprise. In other words, I’d start learning all about the laptop now if you want to be ahead of the posting curve when you can’t ignore it and are neck deep parsing emails from it in posts in this thread. selec fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 15:44
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selec posted:The laptop story is just the narrative, most partisans won’t care, but there will be a slice of “independent” voters, maybe people with a drug conviction or related to someone with one, maybe people who have experience the effects of corruption, that will be turned off by this. Again, if that narrative works, but failson Kushner and Trump Jr doesn't: Its just a glowing condemnation of any sort of ability to even begin to handle corruption.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:45
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Lib and let die posted:I would unironically love to have a longform discussion on the politics and social commentary of the Metal Gear/Solid/Rising universe. I think Kojima is one of the most prescient sci-fi writers of our time who should be held up alongside names like Orwell and Huxley. That'd be a good thread - I think even when he misses the mark, like Death Stranding's atomization of society (and to be fair I don't think a lot of people expected half of the US to go all in on anti-vaxxing, anti-masking, and throwing covid parties), you can see where he gets close to it.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:46
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I think some people feel that the Hunter issue is a partisan attack and are going to the mat to minimize it/blow it up. All the following can be true simultaneously: - Hunter has severe problems/is a bad person. - Hunter cashed in on his family name in the way many family members of celebrities and the powerful do. That is a bad thing in general and shows how the rich and powerful have opportunities and safety nets that the average person will never get. - The Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations were not running the nation's foreign policy decisions through a prism of "how can we make sure we support the Chinese government and Ukrainian utility companies that Hunter Biden works for." - There is no evidence at all, and, in fact, much evidence to the contrary that Joe Biden knew about this, benefitted from it, or influenced the Obama/Trump/Biden administration's decisions on it. - Even if nothing happened, it is still bad that it is a common practice to try and get access by hiring family members of politicians. - Some people who are bringing it up are adding false aspects to it and only doing so as a political attack. - Even if Hunter's issues don't impact anyone directly, some people are using it in bad faith, and Joe Biden wasn't involved, it is still fair to talk about it. - Hunter's dick pics, sex addiction, and crack addiction are both kind of sad and kind of funny.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:48
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RBA Starblade posted:That'd be a good thread - I think even when he misses the mark, like Death Stranding's atomization of society (and to be fair I don't think a lot of people expected half of the US to go all in on anti-vaxxing, anti-masking, and throwing covid parties), you can see where he gets close to it. We had a game thread for tabletop, could probably do a "Politics in Videogames" thread.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:48
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Bishyaler posted:It's really heartwarming to see liberals mending the political divide by embracing the conservative mantra of "if you don't like it, leave" Once again, more lies and more bullshit. You don't get to put words in my mouth. The only conservatives here are the ones shouting Breitbart talking points about a laptop. There's a rule in this thread that says not to repeat the same arguments over and over again. Every post about the evils of Hunter Biden goes down the same road as every other post made about ho0w bad the dems are, how bad the libs are, how bad voting is, how nothing will be solved without a glorious communist revolution. It's the same loving argument over and over and over again. So rather than trying to loving lie about what I said, how about for once you be honest about the points you're trying to make. Terminal autist posted:Gonna circle back to this after the 2024 election and see what your feelings about America are then This is just loving creepy.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:48
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The idea that Americans care about corruption writ large is hilarious to me. It's always been a partisan cudgel. Anti-corruption efforts are usually focused on those that harm the wealthy, not people that harm the public. Ideally these are things the police would handle, but we all know what that ends up looking like. I'm not sure how you actually deal with the issue of corruption in general, but strengthening the institutions responsible for it seems to be at least a start. Unfortunately even that gets applied poorly due to all the other issues with state and federal agencies. How many three letter agencies do we have that deal with financial crimes?
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Mar 31, 2022 15:50
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Solkanar512 posted:Once again, more lies and more bullshit. You don't get to put words in my mouth. The only conservatives here are the ones shouting Breitbart talking points about a laptop. You straight-up said to stop discussing it and get out - either you meant get out of D&D/this thread which is not your call to make and a clear-cut example of backseat moderation, or you meant get out of the US. Just because you edited it after it was pointed out you sound like a card-carrying conservative when you say the exact works a card-carrying conservative says, doesn't mean you didn't say that. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:It's always been a partisan cudgel. Anti-corruption efforts are usually focused on those that harm the wealthy, not people that harm the public. Do not misattribute my intentions. You can tell me why I have such strong feelings about corrupt politicians when you've sat across the dinner table from one of them and had them openly and proudly detail how they rigged the system to protect their pedophile, rapist son from their seat on Smith Street.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:51
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Solkanar512 posted:Once again, more lies and more bullshit. You don't get to put words in my mouth. The only conservatives here are the ones shouting Breitbart talking points about a laptop. You don’t get to call people conservatives just because they’re to your left and don’t tow the party line. What is conservative about my desire to tear down our racial caste system, destroy discriminatory practices and outcomes, make sure all are fed, housed and have their medical needs taken care of? What’s reactionary in my (and many others here) goal to liberate our society from constant grinding anxiety and death wrought of capitalist greed? It’s a perplexing assertion to call the people posting about this in a way you don’t like conservative when the evidence to the contrary for that is thousands of posts in this forum. People can genuinely hate corruption and see the Democratic Party as corrupt! It’s actually a kind of common view, even outside of Conservative circles. Anyway, looking forward to sharing The Year Of The Laptop Of Earthly Delights with all of you.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:54
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Solkanar512 posted:
I'm not making a note of this post my man. The point is were probably looking at a really ugly Republican governance and the Democrats seem pretty uninterested in doing anything about it. You don't need a crystal ball to see what 2024 is going to look like
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Mar 31, 2022 15:55
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Solkanar512 posted:Bullshit. Hunter Biden already had to pay his back taxes and is still exposed to even more punishment. Given how the media had to walk back the “IT’S A HOAX” story it’s not just retcons and lies.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:58
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CommieGIR posted:Again, if that narrative works, but failson Kushner and Trump Jr doesn't: Its just a glowing condemnation of any sort of ability to even begin to handle corruption. I think it would be important to question whether it's a matter of ability or will, ie do the Dems actually want to go after the Trump kids. Obviously I can't see into their hearts and divine their intentions, but I think there's a good case to be made that rich and powerful Dems like Pelosi and Schumer ultimately don't want to put much effort into prosecuting the crimes of other rich and powerful people because they're afraid that they will be investigated for their own corruption in turn.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:58
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Fister Roboto posted:I think it would be important to question whether it's a matter of ability or will, ie do the Dems actually want to go after the Trump kids. Obviously I can't see into their hearts and divine their intentions, but I think there's a good case to be made that rich and powerful Dems like Pelosi and Schumer ultimately don't want to put much effort into prosecuting the crimes of other rich and powerful people because they're afraid that they will be investigated for their own corruption in turn. True, and that's probably a large part of it: If Kushner and Trump Jr are fair game, then their kids/dealings are as well come 2024. Decorum strikes again.
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Mar 31, 2022 15:59
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Fister Roboto posted:I think it would be important to question whether it's a matter of ability or will, ie do the Dems actually want to go after the Trump kids. Obviously I can't see into their hearts and divine their intentions, but I think there's a good case to be made that rich and powerful Dems like Pelosi and Schumer ultimately don't want to put much effort into prosecuting the crimes of other rich and powerful people because they're afraid that they will be investigated for their own corruption in turn. Its this. If rocks start getting kicked over you're going to find prominent members of both parties underneath them. But here we are arguing whether elites are corrupt in a country where the political system literally does not operate without billions of dollars of legalized corporate bribes.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:01
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CommieGIR posted:True, and that's probably a large part of it: If Kushner and Trump Jr are fair game, then their kids/dealings are as well come 2024. This is what I meant when I said anti-corruption is usually a 'you hosed with someone wealthier then you' consequence than anything else. Nobody is going to go after hunter or Trump's kids because it means their kids are potentially going to get it next.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:02
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The most important SKREEEE of moving goalposts is that the conversation started with pointing out howTrump-friendly, Biden-hating news outlets across the country were real gunshy about leaping on what could have been absolutely the biggest story of the year. Then insinuating it must have been the doings of the DNC Illuminati rather than, you know, the sources stinking to high heaven and the evidence for active or passive misdeeds by any public figures being real thin. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2022 16:04
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CommieGIR posted:Again, if that narrative works, but failson Kushner and Trump Jr doesn't: Its just a glowing condemnation of any sort of ability to even begin to handle corruption. welcome to the reason 'no puppet, you're the puppet' worked, to the horror of most involved. if you run on being an agent of pure and impartial technocracy, you are MUCH more vulnerable to allegations of corruption than the loudmouth who lets his kids in on the family business. Trump's brand was deals, and his whole shtick was I'll be corrupt... for you! somehow! don't worry about the details! calling him corrupt was like calling Clinton uncharismatic: no poo poo, Sherlock, that's part of the selling point. Joe Biden, agent of healing and reconciliation, turning out to be just another crime family's paterfamilias? that's an actual angle of attack. yes, you can lash out at Trump as corrupt in response, and correctly, but only one of the two of you has made not being corrupt a selling point.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:05
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Killer robot posted:The most important SKREEEE of moving goalposts is that the conversation started with pointing out howTrump-friendly, Biden-hating news outlets across the country were real gunshy about leaping on what could have been absolutely the biggest story of the year. Then insinuating it must have been the doings of the DNC Illuminati rather than, you know, the sources stinking to high heaven and the evidence for active or passive misdeeds by any public figures being real thin. And now the New York Times admitted it’s real, so the social media gag order has been lifted.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:07
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The idea that Americans care about corruption writ large is hilarious to me. It's always been a partisan cudgel. Anti-corruption efforts are usually focused on those that harm the wealthy, not people that harm the public. I mean, government corruption shows up in a lot of polling as an issue for which voters care, not necessarily as a vote-for-the-other-guy effect, but as a reason for disengagement in the electoral process & civic duties. How many times have you heard non-partisans/indies/non-engaged voters say "It doesn't matter; they're all corrupt." Whether it's Biden progeny or Trump progeny, corruption leads to further disinterest in politics.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:08
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Nucleic Acids posted:And now the New York Times admitted it’s real, so the social media gag order has been lifted. Yeah, but its still in the hands of sources that stink, and other than some pretty sad media like daddy love letters and Hunter's personal dealings with drugs and sex.....what does it actually give us? Corruption? Anybody could've told you that was already happening. Its still largely in the hands of sketchy sources, sure the laptop is now 'real' but at what point does it matter now?
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Mar 31, 2022 16:11
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Killer robot posted:The most important SKREEEE of moving goalposts is that the conversation started with pointing out howTrump-friendly, Biden-hating news outlets across the country were real gunshy about leaping on what could have been absolutely the biggest story of the year. Then insinuating it must have been the doings of the DNC Illuminati rather than, you know, the sources stinking to high heaven and the evidence for active or passive misdeeds by any public figures being real thin. Do you believe that the WaPo was negligent in vetting its story for nine months before publishing it? eta: I'm kind of confused why people keep mentioning drugs & dick pics in context of the WaPo story, which only said that Hunter plans on using his addiction as a defense against money-laundering & influence-peddling.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:12
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Speaking of the DeSantis/Trump issues from earlier. There is a new poll out that shows that DeSantis has better favorables than Trump overall (part of this is likely that more people have not heard of him), but also better favorability among Republicans (this is also likely a factor of name ID, but seems unlikely that Republicans who haven't heard of him are going to end up with more negative views than the general public). https://twitter.com/MULawPoll/status/1509535235729416194 Biden was 44/53 for a net -9 in the poll. Other interesting this is among Republican leaning voters, the results for "Should Donald Trump run for President again in 20204?" were: 54% yes, 46% no Trump does slightly better than other Republican candidates in a head to head, but you also still have wild claims like 15 - 20% of people saying they would vote for someone else. Interestingly, DeSantis brings Biden's total down (but, has a worse margin) farther than Trump. https://twitter.com/MULawPoll/status/1509534407715176452 https://twitter.com/MULawPoll/status/1509534708966772749 Only 34% of Americans still think Covid is a serious problem. A majority of Democrats do, but only 16% of Republicans and about a quarter of independents do. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Mar 31, 2022 |
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Mar 31, 2022 16:12
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, but its still in the hands of sources that stink, and other than some pretty sad media like daddy love letters and Hunter's personal dealings with drugs and sex.....what does it actually give us? Corruption? Anybody could've told you that was already happening. Well, he’s apparently under federal investigation, so we’ll see if those sources that stink got this wrong or not.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:14
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Lib and let die posted:You straight-up said to stop discussing it and get out - either you meant get out of D&D/this thread which is not your call to make and a clear-cut example of backseat moderation, or you meant get out of the US. Nah, you're not going to play moderator here. You and the rest keep making the same argument, we've all heard it multiple times now and you've added nothing new. You think this whole nation is irredeemable, we got it. You don't need to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again. Calling me "conservative" for pointing this out is just name-calling at this point. The whole point of "love it or leave it" is to make the point that nothing can change. That you claim the nation is irredeemable, that is, cannot be improved, then attribute this bullshit to me is really loving rich. You're nothing but a liar and everyone can see it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2022 16:16
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The Senate might actually pass the Covid funds they pulled out of the CR before they expire, but they cut out $5 billion for purchasing and distributing vaccines to developing countries for free. https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1509547139604656129
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Mar 31, 2022 16:19
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Willa Rogers posted:I mean, government corruption shows up in a lot of polling as an issue for which voters care, not necessarily as a vote-for-the-other-guy effect, but as a reason for disengagement in the electoral process & civic duties. Oh for sure, which is also why you see each party do a little housekeeping of its own when someone becomes a risk to the larger group. It's a fine balance between suppression of turnout and motivation of mob violence. People used to think the latter would cause a significant political penalty, but it turns out that's not true!
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Mar 31, 2022 16:19
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Solkanar512 posted:Nah, you're not going to play moderator here. You and the rest keep making the same argument, we've all heard it multiple times now and you've added nothing new. You think this whole nation is irredeemable, we got it. You don't need to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again. Calling me "conservative" for pointing this out is just name-calling at this point. No one's calling you conservative for being unhappy with leftist criticisms of the state of the US. People are calling you conservative for parroting the conservative ethos of "love it or leave it." Did you, or did you not, edit "Then stop discussing it and get out" to "What are you doing here then?"
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Mar 31, 2022 16:20
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Solkanar512 posted:Nah, you're not going to play moderator here. You and the rest keep making the same argument, we've all heard it multiple times now and you've added nothing new. You think this whole nation is irredeemable, we got it. You don't need to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again. Calling me "conservative" for pointing this out is just name-calling at this point. sorry, quick clarification, what is the lie supposed to be here is it that hunter biden's laptop was real, that media censored discussion of it, or that you told someone to get out of the country after they pointed to that as evidence it was rotten to the core
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Mar 31, 2022 16:21
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"What's the point of talking about this? Nothing is going to happen" is really depressing and makes no sense to accept unless your goal is to just quietly die in a ditch erupt making too much of a fuss. It's just excuse making for people who don't even care about you.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:23
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:is it that hunter biden's laptop was real, that media censored discussion of it, or that you told someone to get out of the country after they pointed to that as evidence it was rotten to the core Was it censored or was it coming from whackadoos who openly already had shown they were untrustworthy sources of information? Like, how was it actively censored?
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Mar 31, 2022 16:25
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you believe that the WaPo was negligent in vetting its story for nine months before publishing it? What does that have to do with speculation on what sinister forces could have possibly made the biggest right-wing outlets in the country drop the biggest story of the election cycle, if even a hair of it was plausible and connected to a presidential candidate in more than shared family name? What thundrous power does Joe Biden have that even Fox News won't cross the line and report on this clearly authentic and damning story that isn't at all private actions by a private person? Or did you mean to respond to someone who was talking about whatever you are? Direct question while you're here though: You haven't really established why this is different than Billy Carter, etc. Why do you think it is? Like I guess there's room for "lol and look how Jimmy's reelection went" but even if Biden goes down as hard in reelection as Carter did no one's really established why this will, or should, be high on the list of Joe Biden's many crimes, or indeed is on that list at all.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:26
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Solkanar512 posted:Nah, you're not going to play moderator here. You and the rest keep making the same argument, we've all heard it multiple times now and you've added nothing new. You think this whole nation is irredeemable, we got it. You don't need to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again. Calling me "conservative" for pointing this out is just name-calling at this point. The nation is redeemable but its going to require major systemic change, the likes of which the Democratic party is and has been fighting tooth and nail because they oppose it on an ideological level. Liberals see change and the force behind that change as a wholly negative phenomenon because they've deliberately limited themselves to the legal framework of society.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:28
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CommieGIR posted:Was it censored or was it coming from whackadoos who openly already had shown they were untrustworthy sources of information? Like, how was it actively censored? Hoooo boy. At risk of treading (back again) into well-trod territory, do we apply the same criticism to the alphabet agencies and their media stenographers at Respected Outlets like WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, the BBC, the Providence Journal, the Miami Herald, and on and on and on for their breathless repetition of things that we know are everywhere from "completely nonsensical paranoid delusions" (a la cuban headache microwave laser guns) to "manufacturing consent for foreign wars of aggression/occupation" (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc)? I think the issue is that there are a certain subset of folks that, given the horrid history that Respectable Media has in actually conveying the truth in a good-faith manner, the fact that Respectable Media is now eating crow over their complete and total media blackout of corruption on a fairly massive scale (insofar as it involves familial connections to the highest halls of power in the US), gives more power to "unreliable sources" because the "reliable sources" are openly and unashamedly showing their own asses.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:33
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CommieGIR posted:Was it censored or was it coming from whackadoos who openly already had shown they were untrustworthy sources of information? Like, how was it actively censored? posted earlier in the thread; Facebook admitted to pushing the story down in its algorithm and Twitter admitted to stopping people from posting links to it. welcome to a bold and exciting new world of concerning precedents. Republicans talking about regulating big tech are transparently full of poo poo and lashing out in response to things like this. they are also not wrong that a world where Mark Zuckerberg can decide 'no actually people should not see a thing contrary to my political goals' is one to be avoided, rather than embraced.
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Mar 31, 2022 16:34
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