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some plague rats posted:How else is telling people you don't give a gently caress about the thing we're talking about because you're too concerned with Gay And Trans Rights going to come across? What other inference are we supposed to draw from that other than the dread whataboutism? LGBT rights are a real subject and the Hunter Biden laptop is a crazy conspiracy theory.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:17
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Fart Amplifier posted:LGBT rights are a real subject and the Hunter Biden laptop is a crazy conspiracy theory. Have you read any of the last three pages talking about how it turned out real or did you skip to the last post and then just fart this out
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Mar 31, 2022 23:19
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Hunter Biden conspiracy theories are definitely very relevant and should be discussed at length to continue making this thread as much of a great read as it has been. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 31, 2022 23:28
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Fame Douglas posted:Hunter Biden conspiracy theories are definitely very relevant and should be discussed at length to continue making this thread as much of a great read as it has been. It is, if nothing else, a current event because of that new article.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:28
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Srice posted:It is, if nothing else, a current event because of that new article. Also, Hunter Biden being the President of the US means this particular piece of Russian propaganda is highly relevant.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:29
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Fame Douglas posted:Also, Hunter Biden being the President of the US means this particular piece of Russian propaganda is highly relevant. Dunno what you're getting at but if you're displeased by this current event being discussed maybe you should bring up a different current event and see if folks bite on that one! Be the change you want to see.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:38
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Gumball Gumption posted:Which they didn't take. The New York Post was able to verify the laptops existence and seizure by the FBI in 2019 independent of Giuliani. Their original reporting verified it. Others verified it's existence. Yes, Giuliani is personally interested in this because it helps his personal interests. None of that makes the real FBI investigation less real. Never said it did?
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Mar 31, 2022 23:41
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Srice posted:Dunno what you're getting at but if you're displeased by this current event being discussed maybe you should bring up a different current event and see if folks bite on that one! Be the change you want to see. I'm not displeased at all, I think page after page of Hunter Biden discussion is great, actually and really highlights the debating prowess of posters here and the caliber of discussion to be expected.
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Mar 31, 2022 23:41
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Fame Douglas posted:I'm not displeased at all, I think page after page of Hunter Biden discussion is great, actually and really highlights the debating prowess of posters here and the caliber of discussion to be expected. Glad we're both happy about things today then, cheers 
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Mar 31, 2022 23:43
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How are u posted:We're more than capable, willing, and ready to do it ourselves. Counterpoint:      
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Apr 1, 2022 00:54
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Pobrecito posted:Counterpoint: that second one is the one Biden was going to show up at, and in the wake of its collapse the DOT marked the complaints about how the bridge was about to collapse 'resolved', right
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Apr 1, 2022 01:00
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The one is literally a walkway that was made by a bunch of idiots that had no idea what they were doing and changed approved designs with not engineering data to prove it was safe. If anything a it's an example of Florida not doing proper checks not bad American infrastructure I'm placing the blame on Florida here because well, spreads hands
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Apr 1, 2022 01:08
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CommieGIR posted:Ignoring your absolute rageposting: I didn't use it as a shield at all? You are the only one implying that I did so. enby here; you are absolutely using trans rights as a shield to avoid dealing with uncomfortable questions about your beliefs, and also calling it "rageposting" is some absolute horseshit from you. you shouldn't call angry women hysterical and you should not call angry queer people enraged. it is rational to be angry at what is happening, and a moderator in this forum should not be so dismissive to a queer person's concerns about being wielded as a shield, even if they are not acting in their capacity as a moderator content, holy gently caress this drop in favorability: https://twitter.com/MULawPoll/status/1509537134276980740?s=20&t=2XCkB9je2-Ti3fX90jkwMQ that drop amongst black people is seriously blowing my mind A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 02:11
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UCS Hellmaker posted:If anything a it's an example of Florida not doing proper checks not bad American infrastructure  florida is an american state, bad Floridian infrastructure is bad American infrastructure
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Apr 1, 2022 02:26
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A big flaming stink posted:content, holy gently caress this drop in favorability:
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Apr 1, 2022 02:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:Biden has done nothing on voting rights or student loans, so it's not that surprising. Plus it's coupled with the end of a lot of the pandemic-era government assistance programs (UE benefit extensions, child care bonuses), and of course the rising cost of everything. As a reminder, he has cancelled $415 million in student loans: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/education-department-forgives-415-million-in-private-student-debt-.html
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Apr 1, 2022 03:03
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, he has cancelled $415 million in student loans: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/education-department-forgives-415-million-in-private-student-debt-.html I'm talking about the general forgiveness that was part of the campaign
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Apr 1, 2022 03:05
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FlamingLiberal posted:Those were specifically for borrowers who went to colleges where the institutions may have broken the law You should probably be more precise with your language if you don't want to be corrected. It just seemed like you didn't realize that Biden had, in fact, actually done something about some student loans.
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Apr 1, 2022 03:08
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Kalit posted:You should probably be more precise with your language if you don't want to be corrected. It just seemed like you didn't realize that Biden had, in fact, actually done something about some student loans. It didn't seem like that at all, because everyone here remembers his campaign promises. In fact, it seems like you saw an opportunity to be pedantic and nitpicky in a way that doesn't technically break any rules, but should
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Apr 1, 2022 03:15
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Kalit posted:You should probably be more precise with your language if you don't want to be corrected. It just seemed like you didn't realize that Biden had, in fact, actually done something about some student loans. It was pretty obvious he was talking about Biden's campaign promise for a new policy of general student loan forgiveness, not the preexisting loan forgiveness programs for special cases that Biden was always legally obligated to carry out
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Apr 1, 2022 03:16
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Kalit posted:You should probably be more precise with your language if you don't want to be corrected. It just seemed like you didn't realize that Biden had, in fact, actually done something about some student loans. It's actually a lot more honest and accurate to consider forgiving ~.026% of the collective student debt as being equivalent to nothing than it is to frame it in a way that implies it's meaningful action like you're doing here
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Apr 1, 2022 03:20
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As a guy who likes to point out millions are tiny: yeah, that's nothing, and wholly separate from general student loan policy, which has thus far just been extending the moratorium. Extending the moratorium has actually been much, much more significant than the $415 million, which rounds all the way to zero in this context. At this point many billions in loan interest have been cancelled (probably, I don't know, 100 bil?) since the moratorium began under Trump - which is technically a type of loan forgiveness, if a thoroughly unsatisfying one. Obviously it's still not what people were hoping for or even what was campaigned on. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 03:30
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the suspension of student loan payments has been literally one of the biggest stimulus packages possible for most millennials. It cannot be expressed how much money that pumped into the economy when on average most borrowers found an extra 300-500 dollars a month for the last 2 years that has done so so much to help them. Not forgiving or postponing restarting payments in march will have extreme repercussions that will ceuse immense harm to people that suddenly have to pay.
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Apr 1, 2022 03:36
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The government charging interest on student loans in the first place is obscene, but yeah if you want to make a technical argument about forgiveness it's a much bigger deal than cancelling the vanishingly small percentage of debts to fake colleges, although it has the same problem of being a preexisting policy Biden inherited and has chosen to continue, and therefore not (if we are being  TECHNICAL) a fulfillment of his campaign promise for a new round of loan principal forgiveness.Also it's pretty clear he wants to end the Trump interest moratorium, so trying to whip up excitement for Biden over it is likely a short-sighted engagement strategy,
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Apr 1, 2022 03:38
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, he has cancelled $415 million in student loans: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/education-department-forgives-415-million-in-private-student-debt-.html 0.025%. Incredible. Kalit posted:You should probably be more precise with your language if you don't want to be corrected. It just seemed like you didn't realize that Biden had, in fact, actually done something about some student loans. Personally I'd avoid smarm when touting such precise figures. EFB Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 03:38
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and yeah, its been DOE policy since the later obama years I believe to cancel debt from colleges that were found to be largely fraudulent or turned out to be basically worthless (those are basically a circle of comparison) This has mainly been with for profits or schools that went kaboom pretty openly. And even then most had to fight for it until the government approved it.
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Apr 1, 2022 03:43
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VitalSigns posted:The government charging interest on student loans in the first place is obscene, but yeah if you want to make a technical argument about forgiveness it's a much bigger deal than cancelling the vanishingly small percentage of debts to fake colleges, although it has the same problem of being a preexisting policy Biden inherited and has chosen to continue, and therefore not (if we are being The real dollar value of everybody's loan burden has decreased by over 10% since Biden took office! Promise fulfilled! 
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Apr 1, 2022 03:46
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Just for comparison it's estimated that Biden's promise of $10,000 of forgiveness per borrower would total $377 billion, or 377 thousand million compared to the 415 million of fraudulent debt that he had to forgive by law. or 415,000,000 ÷ 377,000,000,000 0.00110 Or 0.11%, so we've just got 99.89% of that campaign promise to go guys, definitely time to take a victory lap around all those people who relied on the promised relief! E: actually less than that, because if you qualified for this and still had other loans then he still promised you another $10,000 on top of it, so the maximum figure of 0.11% fulfillment assumes that fraudulent loans accounted for all of the student debt held by anyone who got this relief, Mellow Seas posted:Hey, you wanna get technical? Nope wasn't the promise. Promise was explicitly for principal forgiveness. E: Oh wait I just realized this was an inflation joke lol VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 03:51
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/\/\/\  VitalSigns posted:415,000,000 But yeah. The $415m is nothing. If that was it, the grade would be an F. The moratorium extension is significant enough to bring it up to - well, maybe a D-. Still can't rule out further action, but it would probably be further moratorium extensions (this much heel-dragging on principal forgiveness gives me serious "Joe ain't into it" vibes). If they are going to extend it: I don't like the way they dragged it out until the last minute at the end of the year, and I don't like the way they're dragging it out now. (What, do people with student loans have to do "financial planning" or something?)
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Apr 1, 2022 04:03
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, he has cancelled $415 million in student loans: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/education-department-forgives-415-million-in-private-student-debt-.html America's gonna give this the response it deserves. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 1, 2022 04:11
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VitalSigns posted:It was pretty obvious he was talking about Biden's campaign promise for a new policy of general student loan forgiveness, not the preexisting loan forgiveness programs for special cases that Biden was always legally obligated to carry out How was it obvious that FlamingLiberal was talking about campaign promises? The only context they gave was that they quoted a post about the drop in Biden's favorable rating. Unless FlamingLiberal was assuming that the favorability rating of a president is completely correlated with their campaign promises. If that was the case, I misinterpreted their post because I'd honestly be shocked if that was even close to true. Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 04:39
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Kalit posted:How was it obvious that FlamingLiberal was talking about campaign promises? The only context they gave was that they quoted a post about the drops in polling about Biden's favorable rating. Did you miss the ten responses to your post saying the same thing? If literally everyone posting in the thread except you got it, maybe it's not the other guy who's the issue
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Apr 1, 2022 04:48
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Kalit posted:As a reminder, he has cancelled $415 million in student loans: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/17/education-department-forgives-415-million-in-private-student-debt-.html I don't think Biden has actually done anything here besides being president at the same time the department of education took action on established policy. We're talking policy that was updated and finalized by Obama in 2016, renegotiated by Trump, and as far as I can tell this has not been updated under Biden yet. The investigations into DeVry and other for profit schools also started in 2016. I don't think administrations should really be getting credit for things that are the result of long government processes if their main involvement was being alive at the same time. The Department of Education has cancelled $415 million in student loans during Biden's administration as part of regular operations, Joe Biden through direct effort has cancelled 0. Kalit posted:Unless FlamingLiberal was assuming that the favorability rating of a president is completely correlated with their campaign promises. If that was the case, I misinterpreted their post because I'd honestly be shocked if that was even close to true. FlamingLiberal posted:Biden has done nothing on voting rights or student loans, so it's not that surprising. Plus it's coupled with the end of a lot of the pandemic-era government assistance programs (UE benefit extensions, child care bonuses), and of course the rising cost of everything. Ahh ok you didn't misunderstand, you misread. As you can see Flaming Liberal cited multiple things together that would influence favorability. I'm also not exactly sure how "This person thinks only campaign promises effect favorability which is shockingly wrong" leads to "Look, Joe Biden did this thing which you say he didn't" but I can't read your mind so I'm sure you understand your thought process. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 1, 2022 |
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Apr 1, 2022 05:21
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Biden did not make student loan forgiveness a centerpiece of his platform, I think his account made a tweet about it once that he probably didn't read. Most people probably don't even know it was a campaign promise. Not sure where the outrage is coming from
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Apr 1, 2022 05:37
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goethe.cx posted:Biden did not make student loan forgiveness a centerpiece of his platform, I think his account made a tweet about it once that he probably didn't read. Most people probably don't even know it was a campaign promise. Not sure where the outrage is coming from you being for real right now?
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Apr 1, 2022 05:48
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goethe.cx posted:Biden did not make student loan forgiveness a centerpiece of his platform, I think his account made a tweet about it once that he probably didn't read. Most people probably don't even know it was a campaign promise. Not sure where the outrage is coming from "Actually no one even cares about that thing that's currently a big news story. Evidence: I don't really remember it" is not much of an argument, guy
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Apr 1, 2022 05:51
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goethe.cx posted:Biden did not make student loan forgiveness a centerpiece of his platform, I think his account made a tweet about it once that he probably didn't read. Most people probably don't even know it was a campaign promise. Not sure where the outrage is coming from https://medium.com/@JoeBiden/joe-biden-outlines-new-steps-to-ease-economic-burden-on-working-people-e3e121037322
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Apr 1, 2022 06:12
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It looks like the current figure for loan forgiveness is more like $16+ billion, and that's explicitly expansions and loosening eligibility requirements for existing programs, rather than simply complying with what was already in place. I know some people who benefited from it already, so it's nice for them. https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammi...sh=67b08b145f35 That said, that's still only 1% of the total student loans out there, and it's still under existing programs targeting specific groups rather than anything wholly new. So it's shamefully inadequate. I can see, at first, why Biden pushed to have Congress do it since he's very consistently a "functioning Congress" kinda guy rather than an "imperial Presidency" guy. But seeing as that's clearly not happening, and that at least some broad forgiveness is quite popular especially with his own base, he's got no excuse to hold back.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:31
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That's the thing, you want to cement a fairly large part of the population to be rank and file dems? Actually do something with student loans because we all loving hate them. It literally has saved me 400 dollars a month to not deal with my spouses while I finished school these last two years, which made it easier for me to pay my way, fix things, get a nex place to rent, and find a decent job I enjoy. That adds up hard for people and it's a driving thing that affects millions of people and their ability to do anything. Do nothing and restart payments after it was a drat cornerstone of your education plan and it will basically be a nail in the coffin that pisses off those people, and it's going to be an absolutely terrible retraction and crunch of those families and people who now have to find that funding and have no recourse. And it's not like everyone can get the Public loan forgiveness, ten years is goddamn bullshit for how much it stiffles you to have these hanging over your head Let alone the terror that private loans are and how bad some people got hosed by companies back in the late 00 and early 10s, Wells Fargo got my wife for I poo poo you not 10% interest in one (I still get pissed at my in-laws for letting her sign that when she had no idea what it meant and only doing parent loans for her brother) and that fucker was an albatross around our necks till I got it refinanced to an actual reasonable interest rate. Even worse those fuckers collect interest and capitalize instantly at repayment, and if you get deferment they do the same thing, so 6 months can erase every gain you've made. Wipe the debt you fuckers or it's going to be terrible come the summer
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Apr 1, 2022 06:56
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I don't see a possible world where they can reinstate student loan payments this year. Especially with other CoL areas being so high. Whoever does pull that trigger down the road will be cutting their own throat and they know it.
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Apr 1, 2022 06:59
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