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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Air attacks ARE absolutely terrifying for ground forces. Well from what I have been able to tell most of their sorties are very close to the Russian border and in the Southeast where they have held the area for some time. It's far enough from NATO AWACS that they get in fence before being detected and they don't have to worry about Ukrainian SAMs most likely. This will likely change in the near future since Russia is going to focus on that region which means the masses of new weapons to Ukraine are going to there too which means new Anti-Air systems. It will not be as safe for Russian sorties again, which they will lose several more airframes before they learn that lesson though. If Ukraine had fire and forget missiles for their fighter aircraft and AWACS that they could have further in theater Russian air power would be neutralized entirely. But until that happens it is going to be contested for awhile longer.
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Apr 3, 2022 05:46
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I wonder if any of the Polish MiGs were modified to use AMRAAMs or whatever the NATO standard is.
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Apr 3, 2022 05:49
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Most Russian aircraft have some sort of radar detector device in them I think. It tells you if you’re getting hit with radar pulses and will even show you if you’re being locked onto. I wonder if NATO Patriot batteries or awacs along the borders confuse the gently caress out of Russian planes because they’re never sure if it’s a Ukrainian AD system that spotted them or if it’s NATO just loving with them. It’s not an act of war if you just lock on your guidance but don’t fire.
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Apr 3, 2022 05:52
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Kraftwerk posted:Most Russian aircraft have some sort of radar detector device in them I think. It tells you if you’re getting hit with radar pulses and will even show you if you’re being locked onto. Locking on with a fire control radar is what makes a RWR report a missile launch, and is very much a hostile act.
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Apr 3, 2022 06:18
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Kraftwerk posted:Most Russian aircraft have some sort of radar detector device in them I think. It tells you if you’re getting hit with radar pulses and will even show you if you’re being locked onto. Its like 300 miles from the Polish border to Kyiv. I highly doubt Patriot is locking things that far away.
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Apr 3, 2022 06:18
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The Ukrainian air force are claiming to have shot down two Su-34, one helicopter, one UAV and 4 cruise missiles. Big if true. Perhaps the Starstreak arrival is beginning to have an effect. https://twitter.com/armedforcesukr/status/1510481702111563781
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Apr 3, 2022 06:27
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Ukraine must now air drop smolensk and precipitate a great Uranus style encirclement of the Russian army.
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Apr 3, 2022 06:33
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Ola posted:The Ukrainian air force are claiming to have shot down two Su-34, one helicopter, one UAV and 4 cruise missiles. Big if true. Perhaps the Starstreak arrival is beginning to have an effect. They used strastreak to shoot down a chopper yesterday or the day before.
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Apr 3, 2022 06:58
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TasogareNoKagi posted:Locking on with a fire control radar is what makes a RWR report a missile launch, and is very much a hostile act. Some modern radars switch frequencies so fast it’s not easy for planes to realise they’re being tracked.
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Apr 3, 2022 07:12
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Kraftwerk posted:Most Russian aircraft have some sort of radar detector device in them I think. It tells you if you’re getting hit with radar pulses and will even show you if you’re being locked onto. This is comparable to pointing a loaded gun at someone's face, safety off, and loudly announcing to them that you're racking a round into the chamber. It is not a good idea. gay picnic defence posted:Some modern radars switch frequencies so fast it’s not easy for planes to realise they’re being tracked. In the suggested example, if they don't know they're being pinged there's no point.
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Apr 3, 2022 07:21
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Scaramouche posted:They didn't appoint a commander because they didn't want one guy riding a wave of popularity to power. Now, well, there's a lot of blame looking for somewhere to land... Little did putin know if he had appointmented a Julius Caesar he wouldn’t have had to worry about him crossing the rubicon
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Apr 3, 2022 07:22
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https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1510493671619280901
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Apr 3, 2022 07:25
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I don’t think there’s a good translation in English. You could maybe translate starosta as seneschal. how is starosta different from a mayor? At least in Czech, the usage seems pretty much identical.
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Apr 3, 2022 07:27
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Xarn posted:how is starosta different from a mayor? At least in Czech, the usage seems pretty much identical. Use varies by area. In Ukraine it refers to a territorial leader, for village communities (think self-organised unions of villages) introduced by decentralisation reforms after 2014. Their primary functions are liaising between their communities and the actual government authorities and supervising the quality of the authorities’ work on their territory.
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Apr 3, 2022 07:40
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So... with the pre-invasion information about the Russian lists of Ukrainians to watch/neutralize and now the seeming reality of mayors and village elders (and their families) having been abducted and murdered, were the Russians seriously planning to essentially repeat the occupation policy in Poland during WWII?
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Apr 3, 2022 07:57
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Pavlov posted:The thing I'm really surprised by is that Lukashenko actually managed to stall committing Belarusian troops all the way through Russia deciding to withdraw from the entire northern front. That man has dodged so many bullets it would put an 80s action flick to shame. Week 1: "Of course Vlad, I will send my forces into Ukraine" Week 2: "The forces are moving to their staging areas as we speak, just a few days more" Week 3: "We should be ready this week to invade" Week 4: "Some forces were needed to secure the railways, they are very important for supporting your offensives" Week 5: "Oh, you are withdrawing from this front? Too bad, we were just about to cross the border but now we'll be there in Belarus to protect your withdrawal"
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Apr 3, 2022 07:58
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Randarkman posted:So... with the pre-invasion information about the Russian lists of Ukrainians to watch/neutralize and now the seeming reality of mayors and village elders (and their families) having been abducted and murdered, were the Russians seriously planning to essentially repeat the occupation policy in Poland during WWII? oh those lists(L I S T C H A T) were never for just watching. also a lot of people occupied poland in ww2 you mean the ussr? found this quote going over soviet warcrimes in poland. look familiar? quote:It was a common Soviet practice to accuse their victims of being fascists in order to justify their death sentences. Specially ironic since the poles were fighting germans way before barbarossa Despera fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 08:07
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With these reports coming out now, I think any kind of neutrality will be an extremely tough sell to the citizens of Ukraine.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:13
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Remember when people were like "Ukraine should just surrender to Russian rule to limit suffering" "But no one could have foreseen this" Everyone was foreseeing exactly this from day 1. Feliday Melody fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 08:18
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Despera posted:oh those lists(L I S T C H A T) were never for just watching. also a lot of people occupied poland in ww2 you mean the ussr? Hence the "/neutralize", I didn't quite remember how they were described. And yeah I'm mostly thinking of the USSR, though there were many similarities with Germany's occupation such as a concerted effort to eliminate anyone who could play a leadership role in a national resistance movement, local community leaders, teachers, and so on. Famously and conveniently for the Soviets in particular alot of those people had been mobilized as officers in the Polish army and had been taken prisoner by them.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:22
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I don't know how to pose this question without revealing that I am a poor student of history and politics, and a big stupid American, so I won't even pretend. Is this how the rest of the world largely viewed American conduct in the middle-east over the past 20 years? Or is it the case that the Russian army truly has been, by comparison, exceptionally monstrous in Ukraine? This is one of those questions that I find very difficult to disentangle because I am basically just choosing which propaganda fire-hose to drink deep of.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:24
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Feliday Melody posted:Remember when people were like "Ukraine should just surrender to Russian rule to limit suffering" And none of them were saying that to limit suffering Russia should just not invade
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Apr 3, 2022 08:25
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Feliday Melody posted:Remember when people were like "Ukraine should just surrender to Russian rule to limit suffering" Obviously, if Ukrainians didn't resist, the Russia army wouldn't get mad, so it's still Ukrainians fault.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:27
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Scoss posted:I don't know how to pose this question without revealing that I am a poor student of history and politics, and a big stupid American, so I won't even pretend. Its hard to compare warcrimes of 20 years of war over 1 month but as a biased american i can say the russians are catching up quick on the warcrime totem pole.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:31
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Scoss posted:I don't know how to pose this question without revealing that I am a poor student of history and politics, and a big stupid American, so I won't even pretend. This is probably a difficult one to answer well, but in terms of how much of the world, particularly the Middle East, viewed those wars then I'd say yes. There are many abuses, both on the lower and higher level of responsibility recorded from both Iraq and Afghanistan, by America and its allies, against civilians and enemy combatants. And probably many more that have not surfaced. I would still say though that nothing America has done in the Middle East has ever come close to the scale and monstrosity of the conduct of the Soviet military in Afghanistan. The current Russian war in Ukraine also falls short I believe, except in the intensity of the fighting which has really been the most extraordinary thing about this war, this is WWII and Korean War levels.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:34
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Scoss posted:I don't know how to pose this question without revealing that I am a poor student of history and politics, and a big stupid American, so I won't even pretend. Nah. Americans killed a lot of civilians through bombing, but they were mostly using precision guided munitions and at least trying to limit casualties. And while there were some abuses of POWs (eg Abu Ghraib), I don't recall any evidence of summary executions. The conflict was still illegal, unnecessary, and got a lot of people killed, though. The Russians in this conflict have been largely using unguided munitions on cities, intentionally targeting civilian infrastructure like hospitals, and literally going around with lists executing people. There was even reporting of "double tap" artillery strikes, ie hit a building, wait 15 minutes or so for the fire/ambulances/journalists to show up, then hit it again. Objectively speaking, the Russians in Ukraine, and in most other recent conflicts, have been committing war crimes at a drastically greater rate than the Americans in the Middle East. This is not to say that the Americans weren't war criming, just that the degree is vastly different.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:40
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https://twitter.com/ikoshiw/status/1510510003152732162
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Apr 3, 2022 08:41
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I'd wager Russia has committed far more warcrimes in the last 20 years than the good old USA Hell Putin warcrimed Russia just to get into power.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:51
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Slightly aside. My grandma lived in romania during ww2 as a child. When the russians "liberated' their farm, they shot all the men and sent everyone else packing. Thats the very short version of my family history with russians.
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Apr 3, 2022 08:56
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https://twitter.com/melnykandrij/status/1509980023469625358?s=21 Don't know if this has come up. Germany has... a very, very long way to go, with lots of room for improvement. The 100 billion EUR for the military are by no means secured yet, among other things. This guy is not pulling any punches because being nice gets you nothing with that government, they need to be shamed into action. One of their great ideas was to invite him to a Ukraine solidarity concert that exclusively had Russian soloists. He skipped it. German newspaper website reader comments on him tend to be very pearl clutching and  oriented. "He needs to be replaced."
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Apr 3, 2022 08:59
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BattleMaster posted:And none of them were saying that to limit suffering Russia should just not invade Actually they were all pretty much just blaming NATO and the West for it. You see, Russia had no choice.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:00
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ZombieCrew posted:Slightly aside. My grandma lived in romania during ww2 as a child. When the russians "liberated' their farm, they shot all the men and sent everyone else packing. Thats the very short version of my family history with russians.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:06
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Scoss posted:I don't know how to pose this question without revealing that I am a poor student of history and politics, and a big stupid American, so I won't even pretend. More or less, yes. It's hard for most Americans to even start to accept it, but wars initiated by the US has led to hundreds of thousands (up to a million+ depending on source) of civilian deaths the last two decades. It's easy to say that "no, we only used precision bombs, we only targeted military valid targets" etc, but the same kind of inhumane war crimes that horrify us in Ukraine is reflecting the sad truth that civilians are always killed in wars, no matter what you call your bombs. You can discuss the various degrees of horror, or intent, but you're fooling yourself if you think that there were no atrocities or war crimes conducted in the Middle East by the US forces and their PMCs, or even that those war crimes that were commited have been carefully litigated by the US. They blood on their hands might not be exactly the same, but it has the same flavour and it is plentiful. E: both were illegal wars without any just casus belli. Both included bombings of civilian areas, both caused enormous amounts of people to flee their homes, both caused thousands of children to die of malnourishment, lack of medical attention, both have completely demolished entire cities. The main difference is that this one is highly publicised from the receivers end directly to you, while in the Middle East it was the opposite. If you live in the West, chances are that you were in a different but similar bubble in the early 2000's that the Russians public is in right now. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 09:06
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Mr. Smile Face Hat posted:https://twitter.com/melnykandrij/status/1509980023469625358?s=21 Not just website reader comments. A Staatsekretär (one step down from full minister in the German system) tweeted that he is unbearable and even set the "ambassador" in quotation marks.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:11
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Feliday Melody posted:Remember when people were like "Ukraine should just surrender to Russian rule to limit suffering" Only thing that's surprising in this is that people are supriced. You just need to look at every war Russia has fought and there's the mass graves and totally disappeared towns.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:22
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Nah. Americans killed a lot of civilians through bombing, but they were mostly using precision guided munitions and at least trying to limit casualties. ... There was even reporting of "double tap" artillery strikes, ie hit a building, wait 15 minutes or so for the fire/ambulances/journalists to show up, then hit it again. The term double tap was popularized by reporting on American drone strikes, wasn't it? Edit: sorry that looks misleading the way I brought those two sections together, I just meant to contrast them. Adenoid Dan fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 09:33
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lilljonas posted:More or less, yes. It's hard for most Americans to even start to accept it, but wars initiated by the US has led to hundreds of thousands (up to a million+ depending on source) of civilian deaths the last two decades. It's easy to say that "no, we only used precision bombs, we only targeted military valid targets" etc, but the same kind of inhumane war crimes that horrify us in Ukraine is reflecting the sad truth that civilians are always killed in wars, no matter what you call your bombs. You can discuss the various degrees of horror, or intent, but you're fooling yourself if you think that there were no atrocities or war crimes conducted in the Middle East by the US forces and their PMCs, or even that those war crimes that were commited have been carefully litigated by the US. They blood on their hands might not be exactly the same, but it has the same flavour and it is plentiful. This is just getting dangerously close to "both sides" and whataboutisms. (I realize that the question you replied to carried that danger.) I think the question "Which firehose of propaganda should I drink deep of?" is needlessly inflammatory and that the implication that somehow everything is propaganda and that everybody who stands with Ukraine must somehow have been drinking from a firehose of propaganda is meritless. I don't stand on the side of Ukraine because of its propaganda (whatever that may be) or because of atrocities that have been committed against it by Russia, but simply because it's unacceptable for any country to annex another by force. The good thing about such principles is that they don't require liking one side or "seeing both sides" and so on.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:35
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Adenoid Dan posted:The term double tap was popularized by reporting on American drone strikes, wasn't it? "Double Tap" has been around for eighty years (a shot plus immediate follow up shot, an actual gun person will explain it better). Causing an explosion and then detonating a follow up explosion once help has arrived has been a thing for at least fifty years, the IRA were using the technique here in Northern Ireland in the 1970s (it's probably been around longer than that). edit to clarify. Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Apr 3, 2022 |
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Apr 3, 2022 09:44
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Both sides are bad. It is amazing how differently this is being treated than the western supported genocide in Yemen. Edit: yes I meant the term itself
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Apr 3, 2022 09:44
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Just Another Lurker posted:"Double Tap" has been around for eighty years. Double tap strikes as a concept people know about have absolutely been popularized by the discussion around US drone strikes in Yemen.
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Apr 3, 2022 09:47
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