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Arc Hammer posted:Macross Frontier is the one where Macross throws a giant haymaker punch right? I think the only Macross that doesn't have this is 7. And I might be wrong about that one honestly.
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Apr 2, 2022 21:47
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Sdf invented the punch out of desperation because their shoulders lasers werent working
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Apr 2, 2022 21:56
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I'm looking for a specific gif of the SDF throwing a punch. I saw it years ago but I can't narrow it down without knowing the particular series. I think it was Frontier because hte SDF was CGI in the gif.
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Apr 2, 2022 21:59
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Frontier is the one where the Macross surfed.
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Apr 2, 2022 22:19
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm looking for a specific gif of the SDF throwing a punch. I saw it years ago but I can't narrow it down without knowing the particular series. I think it was Frontier because hte SDF was CGI in the gif. Then there's a decent chance of it, Frontier used CG for the mecha action. If it goes on to show a bunch of littler mechs popping out of the arm to shoot missiles at the inside of something its almost definitely Frontier because that was one was such a good pop shot it's the Dynamic Kill in Super Robot Wars for that attack.
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Apr 2, 2022 23:56
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Arc Hammer posted:I'm looking for a specific gif of the SDF throwing a punch. I saw it years ago but I can't narrow it down without knowing the particular series. I think it was Frontier because hte SDF was CGI in the gif. I don't have the gif but is this the shot? 
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Apr 3, 2022 00:22
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Psycho Landlord posted:I don't have the gif but is this the shot? Yeah that's the one. Just comes in swinging and decks the other guy
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Apr 3, 2022 01:56
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That shot owns, loving 2km tall mecha just appearing from frame right and punching a motherfucker in half.
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Apr 3, 2022 03:13
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I didn't like Frontier overall but the combat scenes were amazingly done.
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Apr 3, 2022 03:37
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Queadlunn posted:I didn't like Frontier overall but the combat scenes were amazingly done. It still amazes me how much better looking Frontier is than Delta when it comes to fight scenes. Nearly a decade of improvements in CG, and yet...
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Apr 3, 2022 03:59
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The first episode of Delta was fantastic, it's a pity the rest of the series didn't continue like that.
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Apr 3, 2022 04:10
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chiasaur11 posted:It still amazes me how much better looking Frontier is than Delta when it comes to fight scenes. Nearly a decade of improvements in CG, and yet... Choreography matters even more in CG than it does in traditional animation, imo. Traditional animation with bad choreography can sometimes fall back on simply looking gorgeous so the end product isn't awful, whereas CG is not terribly visually impressive on its own anymore so if the choreography is bad the entire scene is hideous. Majestic Prince has probably the best looking mecha fight sequences in any CG show I've ever seen because they put their whole rear end into the choreography.
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Apr 3, 2022 11:40
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Kanos posted:Choreography matters even more in CG than it does in traditional animation, imo. Traditional animation with bad choreography can sometimes fall back on simply looking gorgeous so the end product isn't awful, whereas CG is not terribly visually impressive on its own anymore so if the choreography is bad the entire scene is hideous. I'd say that Majestic Prince jogged so Land of the Lustrous could run, though. That was Orange's true masterpiece.
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Apr 3, 2022 12:34
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chiasaur11 posted:It still amazes me how much better looking Frontier is than Delta when it comes to fight scenes. Nearly a decade of improvements in CG, and yet... The jump in CG quality from the first Frontier flick to the last is something to behold. Gorgeous.
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Apr 3, 2022 20:16
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No hard confirmation, but Twitter rumors from Wondercon this weekend are that Fathom is doing the Frontier movies this summer as one-night events like the Macross Plus movie. What DOES seem to be confirmed: https://twitter.com/Gubaba777/status/1510485370000982021
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Apr 3, 2022 20:34
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Fathom better do a better fuckin job this time. So many mislabeled theatres that didn't actually run Macross Plus at all and faulty screenings.
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Apr 3, 2022 20:38
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chiasaur11 posted:It still amazes me how much better looking Frontier is than Delta when it comes to fight scenes. Nearly a decade of improvements in CG, and yet... That's because Frontier has tension in fights other than "Hayate Screams Loudly, Girl sings, He wins fight and Zeon's Prettyboys shake their fists while running away"
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Apr 3, 2022 20:41
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It was a pretty titanic misstep to have both sides in every conflict be primarily populated with characters who weren't allowed to die.
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Apr 3, 2022 21:38
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Kanos posted:It was a pretty titanic misstep to have both sides in every conflict be primarily populated with characters who weren't allowed to die. It's not that you can't do this, is that you actually have to try if you are running with that kind of set up. Everything I've heard about Delta suggests they did not.
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Apr 4, 2022 02:23
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Omnicrom posted:It's not that you can't do this, is that you actually have to try if you are running with that kind of set up. Everything I've heard about Delta suggests they did not. I'd say that, barring the kind of shows where nobody dies most of the time (and even then, it's good to change up the enemies from time to time) it's as close to an inherently bad setup as you tend to get in mech anime. Being unable to kill or disable anyone on either side means fights are inconclusive except for at major turning points. Sure, you know Amuro and Char are making it to the end of the series, but you have grunts like Denim to provide battlefield punctuation, and supporting cast like Ryu and Kai to add tension because they could die. Having both sides constantly retreat leads to individual fights feeling pointless.
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Apr 4, 2022 06:29
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As much as I love Macross Delta, the battles doing so little outside of building up the rivals as rivals while happening so often is a huge flaw of the the show. It's one of the biggest things that the movie improves on by virtue of brevity.
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Apr 4, 2022 07:28
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i think i could have accepted all the other problems if they hadn't ditched the tactical jetpack idol concert concept. oh, so it isn't practical while a bunch of fashy bishies were trying to kill them, so what? who gives a poo poo about practicality in a show about the inherent space magic of idols?
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Apr 4, 2022 08:54
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chiasaur11 posted:Sure, you know Amuro and Char are making it to the end of the series, but you have grunts like Denim to provide battlefield punctuation, and supporting cast like Ryu and Kai to add tension because they could die. Having both sides constantly retreat leads to individual fights feeling pointless. To add to that, while Amuro and Char don't get killed, they do get their asses handed to them regularly enough that it creates a more realistic illusion of peril. Then you have all the named character deaths that range from heroic and impactful to happened so fast you barely notice it in the moment, so you get a real sense that 0079 Gundam is a series where anybody is fair game and their death doesn't even have to mean anything.
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Apr 4, 2022 10:05
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i think i could have accepted all the other problems if they hadn't ditched the tactical jetpack idol concert concept. oh, so it isn't practical while a bunch of fashy bishies were trying to kill them, so what? who gives a poo poo about practicality in a show about the inherent space magic of idols? Not only that, but their swarms of drones should be ideal for defending themselves. Mechplanes versus idol technomagic? Yes please.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:16
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Yeah you don't need to make every battle a meat grinder, but it's important to maintain the illusion that battle is dangerous for it to have any tension or sense of risk. Delta had too many characters it didn't want to kill and nearly constant filler battles so it established a baseline expectation that the boy band was going to show up, do nothing, and then retreat.gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i think i could have accepted all the other problems if they hadn't ditched the tactical jetpack idol concert concept. oh, so it isn't practical while a bunch of fashy bishies were trying to kill them, so what? who gives a poo poo about practicality in a show about the inherent space magic of idols? It's not like taking them off the battlefield was even really protecting them. They constantly had them performing in a giant transparent glass dome during battles, and at one point sent them all on a god damned unsupported deep cover espionage mission.
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Apr 4, 2022 13:22
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The duels between ace teams where nobody was ever genuinely at risk was an issue, but I was honestly harder burned by the second half giving entirely too much face time to the enemy faction, in a show with probably the most unsympathetic and arguably evil enemy Macross has had to date Another thing fortunately rectified for the most by the movie version, even if it cost me an arc I liked (the Ragna escape)
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Apr 5, 2022 04:15
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The Windermereians are horrible assholes who are looking for galactic domination but they still don't really manage to measure up to the Zentraedi for on-screen atrocities. The Protodevlin were also trying to kill all life in the universe because they were very hungry. Delta also does the weird "the UN Spacy is also actually super evil and doing super evil things" which is boring and sucks too.
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Apr 5, 2022 04:50
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The Zentradi wiped out 99% of humanity how you even be more evil than that
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Apr 5, 2022 04:51
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Gaius Marius posted:The Zentradi wiped out 99% of humanity how you even be more evil than that You can make a not-unreasonable argument that Var Syndrome is a fate worse than death, and Windermere is incredibly indiscriminate in how it uses it as a 'recruitment' tool.
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Apr 5, 2022 05:01
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Gaius Marius posted:The Zentradi wiped out 99% of humanity how you even be more evil than that By measuring evil on the basis of virtue ethics as opposed to consequentialist ethics, I suppose. The Zentradi were a pre-programmed warrior species with initially limited awareness of the moral consequences of their actions, so their behavior required less severe personal failings. Meanwhile, the Windermere are fully culpable moral actors, so they can be judged by conventional standards.
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Apr 5, 2022 05:32
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Gaius Marius posted:The Zentradi wiped out 99% of humanity how you even be more evil than that Zentradi were bred to be unfeeling weapons that knew nothing but fighting and following orders laid down for them millennia ago, and millions of Zentradi sided with humanity in that fight because they'd learnt otherwise. Similarly, the Protodeviln were beings from a different universe possessing biological weapons and basically following a biological urge, the Vajra were aliens who whose method of communication wasn't compatible with other beings and harmful when they tried The Windermere in comparison had no such cultural barriers, indiscriminately released a hate plague on civilian targets that destroyed it's victims minds, and intended to enslave the galaxy because they were mad at the NUNS being presumed to be the successors to the Protoculture instead of themselves being considered the preeminent race. Most importantly - in all previous conflicts, the wars are ended by common ground being found, leading to peace. At the end of Delta (series) the Windermere merely slink back to their territory unrepentant.
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Apr 5, 2022 05:36
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Seemlar posted:Zentradi were bred to be unfeeling weapons that knew nothing but fighting and following orders laid down for them millennia ago, and millions of Zentradi sided with humanity in that fight because they'd learnt otherwise. I keep meaning to watch more than three episodes of Delta, but then I read stuff like this and it just saps my enthusiasm. Are the movies at least worth tracking down?
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Apr 5, 2022 06:29
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Your mileage may vary, but I do think the movie is worthwhile and it does address (or just dispose of ) most of what I felt dragged the series down Worst case, it's a two hour movie and it covers the entire series plot in 2 hours rather than 8-9 hours of tv show - the second movie is an all new sequel and doesn't have a home release yet
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Apr 5, 2022 06:43
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Delta sounds real dumb
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Apr 5, 2022 06:43
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Seemlar posted:Zentradi were bred to be unfeeling weapons that knew nothing but fighting and following orders laid down for them millennia ago, and millions of Zentradi sided with humanity in that fight because they'd learnt otherwise. I really, really don't buy these mitigating excuses for the Zentraedi and the Protodevlin. Both of them are sapient species capable of making decisions of their own independent of their programming/urges - two protodevlin voluntarily switch sides before the finale, and you specifically mention the Zentraedi who change sides - which means that the ones who didn't defy that programming are culpable for not doing so. Zentraedi Grunt #3232045 who helped blow up a city on Earth is just as guilty as Windermerian Soldier #55995 who participates in their conquest campaign. (The Vajra are a bit different because they only become super aggro when they get basically mind whammied into attacking.) The Windermerians themselves have an excuse for their aggression - NUNS nuked their planet with an extremely illegal WMD that hosed up their entire biosphere. The guys in charge are absolutely out for power and dominance, but for Joe Windermerian Soldier joining up to stick it to the dudes who dropped a fold bomb on their planet is understandable.
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Apr 5, 2022 07:32
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Ardeem posted:I keep meaning to watch more than three episodes of Delta, but then I read stuff like this and it just saps my enthusiasm. Are the movies at least worth tracking down? The first movie, which is all I can judge since the second hasn't come to Blu-ray yet, has much better pacing than the show and is more focused. It's closer to the show than the Frontier movies or DYRL?, but definitely tells the story to match the format and runtime rather than just being a compilation show; it mainly pulls from the first half of the show since it's more focused on Freyja than Hayate, but it spins that into a better version of the show's climax (in my opinion). It's a little difficult to recommend a movie at Japanese home video prices, but it's definitely the version I'd say to watch, as much as I love the show.
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Apr 5, 2022 07:47
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What is it with every single mecha series trying to do a poorly done, heavy handed "BOTHSIDES" narrative, where they do it in the laziest way of "Well these guys are genocidal space nazis, but the other side is AMERICA so they're morally grey".
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Apr 5, 2022 09:45
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Fivemarks posted:What is it with every single mecha series trying to do a poorly done, heavy handed "BOTHSIDES" narrative, where they do it in the laziest way of "Well these guys are genocidal space nazis, but the other side is AMERICA so they're morally grey". It's the natural end point of "war is cool" + "war is bad" without any real understanding as to why or any larger point to make.
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Apr 5, 2022 11:01
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Because japan was the genociding side in ww2 and also "one side is beyond terrible, while the other merely sucks major rear end" is a pretty good descriptor of every war I'm aware of Like what's the alternative, glorifying one side of the war while universally depicting the other as bloodthirsty monsters, so it's clear who should die and who shouldn't? I'm sure you can find american war propaganda movies quickly and easily if you're really itching for that. What is the approach to war you're looking for exactly?
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Apr 5, 2022 14:55
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Even the archetypal goodies-versus-baddies war in pop culture, World War II, had the Allies getting up to some astoundingly horrific poo poo, like Britain letting three million Indians starve to death in Bengal to secure grain supplies for the war effort and deny them to Japan.
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Apr 5, 2022 15:18
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