|
We know that the Elden Ring existed before the Greater Will, so I don't think its destruction is relevant to the Fingers' ability to communicate. I do agree that the Greater Will wants us to become Elden Lord and the Fingers were flummoxed when we couldn't get in, but I think that has more to do with Radagon and/or Marika rejecting us somehow, which is why he fights us. Maybe. I dunno. There's definitely a LOT of unanswered questions about the motives/desires of the major players in the story. It's also possible that we're reading too much into things that are simply contrivances for the gameplay, like the guidance of grace.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 05:27 |
|
|
The cosmology of Elden Ring feels very SMT, even down to having Law/Chaos/Let's Do Something Weird endings. In my head the Golden Order has its gold theme because the Greater Will is a giant yellow space head
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
VagueRant posted:Trying to avoid the wiki for spoilers and confusion, but want to know how to continue the Ranni quest. Nokron is larger then you think.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
boloney posted:We know that the Elden Ring existed before the Greater Will, I don't think this is true: "It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring."
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
boloney posted:We know that the Elden Ring existed before the Greater Will, so I don't think its destruction is relevant to the Fingers' ability to communicate. I do agree that the Greater Will wants us to become Elden Lord and the Fingers were flummoxed when we couldn't get in, but I think that has more to do with Radagon and/or Marika rejecting us somehow, which is why he fights us. Maybe. I dunno. There's definitely a LOT of unanswered questions about the motives/desires of the major players in the story. It's also possible that we're reading too much into things that are simply contrivances for the gameplay, like the guidance of grace. The Position of Elden Lord existed. The Elden Ring seems to have arrived with the Elden Beast and been part of the Crucible formed by it impacting the planet. As described in the Elden Stars spell. The Elden Beast being explicitly sent by the Greater Will. The arrival may well predate every major plot beat we know of. After all the Crucible was there when Marika defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen. The thing that might be true and kind of complicating things is The Grearer Will (pure Order) and the Frenzied Flame (pure chaos) once being a singular divine being. This being may have sent the Elden Beast and been split apart into the two separate entities later. Funnily enough, we have an example of one divine being separating into two beings. One golden and the other fiery. I’m saying that Marika and Radagon might be a reflection upon the original Greater Will splitting into itself and the Frenzied Flame. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
Ah, my bad
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
Dunno what all the fuss with Malenia is all about, she was extremely easy  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2049k_ApE5A More like subparboss!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
https://imgur.com/a/P3BYZvz This is what enia says about the 2 fingers talking to the greater will. It's ambiguous whether they are waiting for a response or if that the long consultation period is due to them talking like Ents.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:The Position of Elden Lord existed. The Elden Ring seems to have arrived with the Elden Beast and been part of the Crucible formed by it impacting the planet. As described in the Elden Stars spell. The Elden Beast being explicitly sent by the Greater Will. About the Elden Lord thing, I wondered if maybe Placidusax and whatever outer god he served wouldn't have used the term "Elden Lord," but that's just the term that the current people of the world would think of that position as. Godfrey is regularly referred to as the "first Elden Lord," after all. That could just mean that he was the first Elden Lord of the Greater Will's Order, or it could mean that the term "Elden Lord" didn't exist until he took the position, and then that term was just retroactively applied to beings like Placidusax, who played a similar role for his outer god. This isn't to disagree with your point, more just a linguistic/terminology tangent that I thought was kind of interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
boloney posted:Ah, my bad To be fair I do think Marika is in fact rejecting us, and the thorns are her doing. To ensure that the Flame of Ruin held by the Fire Giants is kindled by her daughter Melina. Marika is trying to engineer a specific end game scenario I feel, even imprisoned as she is. She wants Godfrey in particular to find her I think. Harrow posted:About the Elden Lord thing, I wondered if maybe Placidusax and whatever outer god he served wouldn't have used the term "Elden Lord," but that's just the term that the current people of the world would think of that position as. Godfrey is regularly referred to as the "first Elden Lord," after all. That could just mean that he was the first Elden Lord of the Greater Will's Order, or it could mean that the term "Elden Lord" didn't exist until he took the position, and then that term was just retroactively applied to beings like Placidusax, who played a similar role for his outer god. Given that the term Elden Lord seems to specifically reference Consort of the current Empyrean Ascendant (Marika in the normal ending, Ranni in her ending, nobody in Frenzy Flame). I wonder if it’s meant to simply imply that Placudisax was not the carrier of his draconic outer god, but it’s partner. I have to wonder how Greyoll and Gransax fit into everything too. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:To be fair I do think Marika is in fact rejecting us, and the thorns are her doing. To ensure that the Flame of Ruin held by the Fire Giants is kindled by her daughter Melina. Marika is trying to engineer a specific end game scenario I feel, even imprisoned as she is. She wants Godfrey in particular to find her I think. It could also be that there's sort of an internal tug of war going on inside the Erdtree, with Marika trying to get someone in there to kill the Elden Beast, and Radagon and the Elden Beast trying to keep people out. Melina would be Marika's attempt to work outside of the direct influence of the Elden Beast and have an instrument of her will that's able to move at least a little bit more freely (even if she does have to hitch a ride with a random Tarnished due to lacking a body of her own).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
Harrow posted:It could also be that there's sort of an internal tug of war going on inside the Erdtree, with Marika trying to get someone in there to kill the Elden Beast, and Radagon and the Elden Beast trying to keep people out. Melina would be Marika's attempt to work outside of the direct influence of the Elden Beast and have an instrument of her will that's able to move at least a little bit more freely (even if she does have to hitch a ride with a random Tarnished due to lacking a body of her own). I think my feeling is the Erdtree is specifically a representation of Marika’s version of the Golden Order. We know this because it was the Crucible before and she specifically grew and cultivated the tree after defeating the Godskins and Gloam-Eyed Queen. Neither Radagon nor the Elden Beast show any particular thorn/tree themed abilities, and if I recall the thorn seal itself when you interact with it may mention Marika. It also fits to me that she’s specifically trying to angle for a Tarnished capable of killing the Last Fire Giant, and more specifically Godfrey. If she’s trying to select a Tarnished to kill Radagon and the Elden Beast, who better than the Husband she specifically sent away with instructions of when he should return. Also I feel like if the thorns were from the Elden Beast and Radagon they’d be a factor known to the rest of those loyal to the Greater Will, and Gideon’s particular breakdown is inspired by a belief that Marika intends for nobody to become Elden Lord, which implies she’s barring the way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
Harrow posted:It could also be that there's sort of an internal tug of war going on inside the Erdtree, with Marika trying to get someone in there to kill the Elden Beast, and Radagon and the Elden Beast trying to keep people out. Melina would be Marika's attempt to work outside of the direct influence of the Elden Beast and have an instrument of her will that's able to move at least a little bit more freely (even if she does have to hitch a ride with a random Tarnished due to lacking a body of her own). This makes sense since we already know there is conflict between Marika and Radagon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:she specifically grew and cultivated the tree after defeating the Godskins and Gloam-Eyed Queen. What's this from?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
When you thought your first 200-hour play through was "pretty thorough" but you keep finding new areas tucked into the legacy dungeons. I did find this the first time, but you can gently caress around and take a few wrong turns in Raya Lucaria and feel like you just dropped into Yharnam. I like how this game has broken the internet with its success, yet all of the cool stuff is hidden from the majority of players, and all of the coolest stuff is hidden behind that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:54
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:I think my feeling is the Erdtree is specifically a representation of Marika’s version of the Golden Order. We know this because it was the Crucible before and she specifically grew and cultivated the tree after defeating the Godskins and Gloam-Eyed Queen. Neither Radagon nor the Elden Beast show any particular thorn/tree themed abilities, and if I recall the thorn seal itself when you interact with it may mention Marika. When you interact with it, the message just says "Impenetrable thorns refuse all. None may enter the Erdtree." There's no real indication of whose will is preventing entry. I'd argue that the Elden Beast does have a connection to trees--it transforms the arena into an endless expanse of golden trees before you fight it, after all. What specifically was Godfrey's instruction on when to return? I only have a vague memory of that so that could be a gap in my understanding.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:57
|
|
|
TastyAvocado posted:What's this from? Well I guess it’s not quite as clear cut, poor choice of words, but Marika’s first act upon arriving in the Lands Between was to dispose of the Gloam-Eyed Queen (whom the Godskins followed) claim the Crucible, remove the Rune of Destined Death from the Elden Ring and give it to Malekith, and then presumably grow the Erdtree. As the Erdtree is Marika’s seat of power and replaces the Crucible that came before her. Notably because she has the Erdtree she goes to war with the Fire Giants (via Godfrey). The Gloam-Eyed Queen was an Empyrean like Marika, with her own Two-Fingers. So it seems to have been a fight over who got to be the Elden Ring bearer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 16:58
|
|
|
Part of my reading is the assumption that nobody outside the Erdtree has a complete understanding of what's going on--not Gideon, not the Fingers, not Enia, not any of them. They all have incomplete pictures of the truth and draw different conclusions from them. Gideon's assertion of what he believes Marika's will to be isn't necessarily any more true just because he arrives at the conclusion towards the end. After all, his other belief is that the Tarnished can never become Elden Lord or kill a god, both of which we prove wrong shortly after he dies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Harrow posted:What specifically was Godfrey's instruction on when to return? I only have a vague memory of that so that could be a gap in my understanding. It’s in one of Melina’s words of Marika conversations Marika took away the Grace from Godfrey and his men, and told them she would banish them from the Lands Between to war until they died, and then when she gave that which she took away from them back (Grace) they would return to the Lands Between to war once more. Extrapolating, she was already planning the shattering, and always intending to call Godfrey back to her side. Gideon interprets this as Marika wanting nobody to become Elden Lord, and simply pushing for an eternal hell war. I think the fact she explained what she was doing to Godfrey and told him to return to her when she gives him his Grace back, means she was planning for him specifically. Especially because Godfrey shows up literally at the final step as a you or me is getting the job thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:02
|
|
|
whoever described the player as a roving murderer in this game was spot on lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Part of my reading is the assumption that nobody outside the Erdtree has a complete understanding of what's going on--not Gideon, not the Fingers, not Enia, not any of them. They all have incomplete pictures of the truth and draw different conclusions from them. Gideon's assertion of what he believes Marika's will to be isn't necessarily any more true just because he arrives at the conclusion towards the end. After all, his other belief is that the Tarnished can never become Elden Lord or kill a god, both of which we prove wrong shortly after he dies. I took it that Gideon went up against Godfrey and got his rear end handed to him, and to try and save face attempts to kill the player Tarnished.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:05
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:I took it that Gideon went up against Godfrey and got his rear end handed to him, and to try and save face attempts to kill the player Tarnished. Or he got his poo poo kicked in by Radagon and combined with his research into the shattering and royal family figures Marika is working with Radagon to keep people out. Instead of the actual truth of her trying to change the Golden Order (my assumption).
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
Dex/Int impressions at altus/leyndell after a first playthrough and ng+ as a str guy, coming from somebody who is pretty much always a big weapon str guy - Powerstanced cold twinblades (peeler + twinblade) is ridiculous on anything susceptible / won't bounce. Like good lord maybe only bleed is crazier. - Moonveil is fine but wing of astel takes the show for me. Big boss killer and free R2 projectiles without a buffing mechanic. Powerstanced with a cold scavenger and you rip through things almost as fast as the twinblades. - Since I had the str for it tried out DMGS. I thought having to keep the weapon buffed would be annoying but it seems to last a good while. Absolutely chunks what the fast dexy things above have trouble with. Find myself fallilng into the jump attack pattern which is all I did with colossal hammers before so I'm trying to play it differently. - Barely casting any spells. Don't feel the need. It's been a pain keeping a lot of these upgraded but it's ridiculously easy to breeze through with this build + foreknowledge from previous playthrough. Game is insane
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:08
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:It’s in one of Melina’s words of Marika conversations Marika took away the Grace from Godfrey and his men, and told them she would banish them from the Lands Between to war until they died, and then when she gave that which she took away from them back (Grace) they would return to the Lands Between to war once more. Ah okay, I remember that conversation. I think that could also be understood as calling back the Tarnished in general, not necessarily Godfrey specifically. She likely wants the Tarnished to war, maybe to become stronger, so that whoever does breach the Erdtree is powerful enough to defeat Radagon and the Elden Beast. That was maybe most likely to be Godfrey, but it's telling that Melina--who was given her mission by Marika, even if she doesn't clearly remember what that mission is--chooses to ally with the player Tarnished, not Godfrey, and continues to do so even after she has reached the Erdtree and presumably come to understand her role more clearly. I guess where I'm coming from is that it's consistent with the motivation of Radagon and the Elden Beast to keep the Tarnished out, but consistent with Marika's motivation to let in whoever is going to be strong enough to kill the Elden Beast. To me, it's simpler to read that as the thorns not being Marika's idea, and her sending Melina out to burn the Erdtree with the Giant's Flame is her plan to remove the thorns so that a powerful Tarnished can come in and finish the job. Sleng Teng posted:- Moonveil is fine but wing of astel takes the show for me. Big boss killer and free R2 projectiles without a buffing mechanic. Powerstanced with a cold scavenger and you rip through things almost as fast as the twinblades.  Moonveil's cool and all but Wing of Astel and DMGS just feel better to use, especially when you have both upgraded and can swap between them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:10
|
|
|
Is there any way to change a weapon's scaling without changing the weapon art? I'm using the Battle Hammer and I want to make it heavy, but as far as I can tell there's no way to get a loose copy of the weapon art it has.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:11
|
|
|
Son of Thunderbeast posted:Dunno what all the fuss with Malenia is all about, she was extremely easy lol the yelp your mimic lets out when she gets kicked in the face
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Is there any way to change a weapon's scaling without changing the weapon art? I'm using the Battle Hammer and I want to make it heavy, but as far as I can tell there's no way to get a loose copy of the weapon art it has. The only way to do that is to have an Ash of War that has the same weapon art on it. The Battle Hammer's weapon art is available as an Ash of War, but you can only get it if Blackguard Big Boggart, the boiled prawn guy[spoiler] dies. You can either kill him yourself for it or follow [spoiler]Dung Eater's questline.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:14
|
|
|
Right, and my reading is Melina is meant to help burn the thorns, and always was, but Marika planned that too. She knows the thorns will need burning and has Melina ready to go already because she’s planning to put the thorns up herself. I honestly don’t know why Radagon and the Elden Beast attack, you’re there to rebuild the Elden Ring. My one guess is they want to do it instead of you and want to take the Great Runes from you. At least in the normal endings, there’s obviously a lot better reason in the Ranni and Frenzy endings for them to be very not happy with you. I guess burning the Erdtree is a cardinal sin no matter who set up the thorns. Actually that could be an interesting logic for Marika to take. Force whoever enters to have committed a cardinal sin so the Elden Beast and Radagon are forced to attack by the trappings of their own Golden Order rules. Basically my big assumption is the entire situation in game is an extremely long plan by Marika. Starting when Ranni was born an Empyrean and she realised she needed to do something or lose her position as eternal god-Queen. Which feels like a very GRRM narrative and motivation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:14
|
|
|
In the next major patch I'd like to see mostly some PvP balance changes and exploit fixes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:17
|
|
|
i just want a series of 4 or 5 patches where they nerf radahn and restore him to his former glory back and forth like the from developers are having an internal spat
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Basically my big assumption is the entire situation in game is an extremely long plan by Marika. Starting when Ranni was born an Empyrean and she realised she needed to do something or lose her position as eternal god-Queen. Which feels like a very GRRM narrative and motivation. Ah, I think this is where we're disagreeing. There are signs that Marika was questioning her role in the Golden Order, which suggests to me that this is less a ploy to keep her position and power, and more an attempt to free herself from her servitude to the Golden Order and Greater Will. I think your reading makes perfect sense if Marika's goal is to maintain her power, but if her goal is instead freedom at any cost, I think it makes more sense that the thorns were from the Elden Beast and Marika's ploy with Melina is to get someone to bust their way in. Unfortunately Marika's motivation is extremely vague so there isn't really much concrete to point to for her. Maybe a DLC will have more clues.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:23
|
|
|
the erdtree is part of a cycle of death and renewal and trying to escape that fate. basically every npc quest involves some kind of literal or metaphorical death to enable a rebirth and a better future. there is also the theme that a failure to properly die (godwyn, Those Who Live In Death, dung eater's cursed victims, rykards fate post devourment, etc) leads to horrifying consequences. the erdtree is dying, as all things die, but doesn't want to go gracefully. it needs to die and be replaced to renew the world's order. all of marika's kids were born empyreans to some other outer power. the shattering prevented all of their ascensions. I think marika didn't want to go either, but didn't bank on the greater will imprisoning her in the tree as punishment. melina is her get out of jail free card, a way to bypass the seal on the door.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:25
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Right, and my reading is Melina is meant to help burn the thorns, and always was, but Marika planned that too. She knows the thorns will need burning and has Melina ready to go already because she’s planning to put the thorns up herself. that’s not how I saw it. my take on the thorns was that they were the arboreal equivalent of a security gate slamming shut - the elden beast/GW panics when the Ring is broken and seals up the Erdtree, but Marika and Radagon’s absence mean that a new Elden Lord is needed, so the Tarnished are all pinged back to the Lands Between, which coincidentally has been turned into a blasted war zone perfect for cultivating the sort of person who’d kill a god basically Marika accounted for the GW’s retaliation as well as her own actions
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:27
|
|
|
Harrow posted:I think this is where we're disagreeing. There are signs that Marika was questioning her role in the Golden Order, which suggests to me that this is less a ploy to keep her position and power, and more an attempt to free herself from her servitude to the Golden Order and Greater Will. I think your reading makes perfect sense if Marika's goal is to maintain her power, but if her goal is instead freedom at any cost, I think it makes more sense that the thorns were from the Elden Beast and Marika's ploy with Melina is to get someone to bust their way in. I feel the big thing is Marika was planning as soon as she took the grace from and banished Godfrey as the first Tarnished. Which means she had at least two, if not three full grown children (and could in fact have been trying for a child with a connection to the fire god of the giants specifically). If her goal was freedom she spent an incredibly long time planning out a bunch of stuff including killing her own eldest son, marrying herself, and setting up the situation where her divine children would explicitly war amongst themselves instead of claim the Elden Ring and possibly even replace her. Marika could have talked to Ranni about the Moon, if she wanted freedom Ranni was born an Empyrean and thus could have replaced Marika. Instead she engineered a scenario where Ranni “died”. As did the oldest of her children who was beloved by all others. You don’t orchestrate Godwyn’s death if you only are making a desperate attempt at freedom. You orchestrate his death for the maximum effect on the rest of your family so that you can hide your time and remain Queen after freeing yourself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:27
|
|
|
juggalo baby coffin posted:the erdtree is dying, as all things die, but doesn't want to go gracefully. it needs to die and be replaced to renew the world's order. all of marika's kids were born empyreans to some other outer power. the shattering prevented all of their ascensions. Only Miquella and Malenia are Empyreans of Marika’s own children. Ranni is also one (although born of Radagon and Rennala). The rest are not, they can only become Elden Lord via being consort to an Empyrean Mohg wants this, Radahn also wanted this and likely would have married Marika if not for Morgott stopping him from invading Leyndell (and admittedly he likely would have been stopped by the Thorns). I also suspect Melina is one, for the same reason Miquella and Malenia are, she’s a child of a single god, so guaranteed Empyrean, cursed from birth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
Isn't it stated that Marika shattered the ring explicitly because of Godwyn's death?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Especially because Godfrey shows up literally at the final step as a you or me is getting the job thing. How loving cool would it have been if after beating Godfrey, he respects you so much he can become your NPC summon for the Radagon and Elden Beast fights. Turn that poo poo up to 11 and let Hoarah Loux go beast mode like it's Radahn 2.0.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
boloney posted:Isn't it stated that Marika shattered the ring explicitly because of Godwyn's death? It’s also mentioned the assassins who did so are the same people as Marika (incidentally it’s one of the starting options, Numen) and potentially allied with her. Ranni only made the daggers. Malekith specifically states that Marika betrayed him somehow, and the only way that makes sense is if she orchestrates the theft of parts of the Rune of Destined Death. She also had been planning to shatter the ring long before she did so. It is highly implied Marika orchestrated Godwyn’s death in some manner, and the entire thing was a distraction to hide her own reasons for shattering the Elden Ring as false grief. Also as I noted Godwyn would have easily been an option for the combined royal family to rally behind to become the next Elden Lord.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:38
|
|
|
What is the deal with Rennala's egg? Why does it have a great rune? It's supposed to have been a gift from Radagon, but didn't he leave her before the Shattering?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 05:27 |
|
|
megane posted:What is the deal with Rennala's egg? Why does it have a great rune? It's supposed to have been a gift from Radagon, but didn't he leave her before the Shattering? You can just remove runes from the Elden Ring. The rune of rebirth given to Rennala, The Rune of Destined Death gifted to/imprisoned with Malekith 3 endings are explicitly adding new runes to the existing Elden Ring.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2022 17:42
|
|