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He asked for an 8% raise after 8 months into his first job in tech, and is upset at getting 3.75%? I think beyond even the practicalities of it, there’s some expectations this person has that might be a bit out of alignment. Dik Hz posted:He’s been there under a year. I wouldn’t read anything into it, tbh. PhDs are just as clueless as everyone else in their first year. drat you
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Apr 4, 2022 18:05
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Eric the Mauve posted:You'd never get anywhere just passively grumbling that "man if this doesn't happen soon I'm so outta here"--but that's exactly what most people spend their whole lives doing. I've spent years passively grumbling then acting on it. That strategy works really well, potentially better than proactively working with people.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:11
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Tech R&D, writing patents and white papers. His output of both is far ahead of his peers including those a level up to him, and he has some really great visibility leading an employee resource group. And it's 8 months full time with 10 months previous to to full time as a 1/2 time intern doing the same work. In the current job market he could likely go on the market and get a 10 to 15% raise at a minimum, but most of his patents are not yet public so his resume is not nearly as strong as it will be in another 9 or 12 months when they are and he can list them.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:12
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Spikes32 posted:Tech R&D, writing patents and white papers. His output of both is far ahead of his peers including those a level up to him, and he has some really great visibility leading an employee resource group. And it's 8 months full time with 10 months previous to to full time as a 1/2 time intern doing the same work. I'm unaware of a correlation between running an ERG and promoting faster.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:20
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So I have been told I will get an offer for a corporate job and I can definitely expect to get more than the min I set for myself, but I am having a hard time getting excited. It will inclue a week of on-call per month (meh) and be more of a silo job. It is however at least a 25% pay increase and that's pretty significant in my socialist country. The on-call pay would be on top though. One big downside is the corporations policy of only hiring people through leasing for two years before transfering them to the actual company, apparently so they can easily fire underperformers (if you are in the actual company it's much harder, because it's an employee majority owned corp). I am definitely scared of losing all the autonomy I enjoy in my current allrounder position, but my current employer is leaving me more and more unsatisfied, in pay, but also a few more areas.
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Apr 4, 2022 18:20
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Spikes32 posted:Tech R&D, writing patents and white papers. His output of both is far ahead of his peers including those a level up to him, and he has some really great visibility leading an employee resource group. And it's 8 months full time with 10 months previous to to full time as a 1/2 time intern doing the same work. asking for a raise in first 12 months is not a very done thing here
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Apr 4, 2022 19:05
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Spikes32 posted:Tech R&D, writing patents and white papers. His output of both is far ahead of his peers including those a level up to him, and he has some really great visibility leading an employee resource group. And it's 8 months full time with 10 months previous to to full time as a 1/2 time intern doing the same work. The employee resource group stuff is a trap, imo. He wants to be seen as competent in his role. Not as a liaison for something else. Finally, everyone’s patent portfolio lags by 2-5 years. Anyone hiring fresh PhDs will know this. I don’t mean to just poo poo over your partner’s situation. But if I were in his shoes, I’d be putting together a 2 year plan that involved being humble and learning the business, networking and making connections, and then moving on and getting paid somewhere else.
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Apr 4, 2022 19:14
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Wrong thread!
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Apr 4, 2022 19:17
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I appreciate all these new perspectives on fresh PhD / patent stuff. I was told the opposite at first, probably because I was just mentioning tech. I'll keep all this in mind when talking to him about stuff. And haha yes very aware both he and I are biased.
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Apr 4, 2022 19:32
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So I got a job offer for 50k last Friday and accepted it. Today I get a offer for 75k from another job that has more exciting work. The issue is that job A is local and if I burn a bridge with them I probably won't be able to find work out here. What do I do  .
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Apr 4, 2022 21:52
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aperfectcirclefan posted:So I got a job offer for 50k last Friday and accepted it. Today I get a offer for 75k from another job that has more exciting work. The issue is that job A is local and if I burn a bridge with them I probably won't be able to find work out here. Burn the bridge. it happens, good companies will accept it.
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Apr 4, 2022 21:54
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aperfectcirclefan posted:So I got a job offer for 50k last Friday and accepted it. Today I get a offer for 75k from another job that has more exciting work. The issue is that job A is local and if I burn a bridge with them I probably won't be able to find work out here. 
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Apr 4, 2022 22:00
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Oh one thing I forgot to add, company 2 has real bad reviews on Glassdoor. Should I pay attention to those?
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Apr 4, 2022 22:02
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What kind of bad? "They lay off whole depts at the drop of a hat" bad? "They have a culture of sexual/racial harassment" bad? Or, just, they work too much and aren't super organized bad?
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Apr 4, 2022 22:07
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Unorganized and layoffs bad.
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Apr 4, 2022 22:10
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They probably aren't lying but 50% higher salary is kind of life changing so if I were to burn bridges and take risks it'd be for that.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:02
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Lockback posted:They probably aren't lying but 50% higher salary is kind of life changing so if I were to burn bridges and take risks it'd be for that. Agreed. 25k when you make 50k is a massive number.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:15
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I'd take the money, personally. Going from ~45k to 84k has been rather life changing. It also puts you in a position to disregard low ball offers moving forward so you can negotiate with more confidence and a better batna.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:17
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If you want genuine looks (possibly) you can just drop the name. If you can be open about $, no sense being coy about the rest. Cheers for the salary timing discussion everyone. I felt like a bit of an oaf having left it go, but as such I can’t be mad about how it goes. I am a bit blindsided by how ghosting after an interview is apparently A Thing now.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:37
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I will say that as rear end backwards as my current company is about comp and interviewing in general, we at least let every applicant know when a position has been filled. It's basically automated so I don't know why more companies don't.
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Apr 4, 2022 23:42
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aperfectcirclefan posted:Oh one thing I forgot to add, company 2 has real bad reviews on Glassdoor. Should I pay attention to those? In that situation I just shrug and tell my 1-day boss "hey I got offered 50% more so I think I've gotta take that" and they will probably just say "yeah that makes sense" if they were worth working for in the first place
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Apr 5, 2022 00:20
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Not a Children posted:In that situation I just shrug and tell my 1-day boss "hey I got offered 50% more so I think I've gotta take that" and they will probably just say "yeah that makes sense" if they were worth working for in the first place I had a guy get hired away from me who I really wanted to keep but at the number he threw out to match I just said "okay, go get em out there man, stay in touch" it was like... 30% more than the top of where I could stretch him in the title above his, and a bit above the middle of the next title after that
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Apr 5, 2022 01:20
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quote:Hi <Tibalt>, So, what would people suggest as my next step?
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Apr 5, 2022 01:29
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First question: is this a W-2 contract position at $50/hr or a 1099 contract position at $50/hr?
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Apr 5, 2022 01:47
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Pretty sure a W2 position but I'll confirm that. edit: The employment agreement has a provision that regular and overtime pay is the same (a little weird but it's a Salaried-Position-But-Not deal I guess) so I went with the following: quote:The current offer is great and I would be happy to sign it except for one concern. In section VI. b. the agreement states "$50.00 per hour for hours worked (as reflected on timecards) in excess of forty (40) hours per week (or as otherwise required by applicable State law) (“Premium Rate Compensation”)." While I appreciate <Contractor's> desire for a consistent pay rate and the expectation that overtime would be uncommon, we haven't discussed overtime up to this point and <Client's> needs could change in the future. As such, I need to request an increase of the standard rate and premium rate compensation to $53/hour. If that is acceptable, please send over a revised employment agreement and I will sign and return it immediately. Tibalt fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 01:55
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Putting my evil HR hat on, there's no such thing as "salaried but not." There's exempt/ non-exempt and hourly/salaried. If you're salaried you aren't hourly, and if you're exempt you aren't non-exempt. I would definitely want these sorted and whether it's W-2 or 1099 before even talking rates.
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Apr 5, 2022 03:26
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anime was right posted:i'm in a similar position right now and would appreciate any advice the thread could offer. CoL isn't really impacting me, but i'd prefer to stay ahead of the curve since i'm effectively one of the most senior people in my company in terms of tenure (almost 9 years in a relatively young company). i am currently a pretty high up consultant that's pivotal to two departments that are about the receive an absolutely massive amount of new work. update: i am the special snowflake my company ended up giving me a 33% raise last month which is like well above market now lol. i tried hunting outside for a while and it was all pay decreases from that.
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Apr 5, 2022 05:15
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anime was right posted:update: i am the special snowflake my company ended up giving me a 33% raise last month which is like well above market now lol. i tried hunting outside for a while and it was all pay decreases from that. hell yeah brother
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Apr 5, 2022 12:36
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Lol our department is generally hemorrhaging people and my manager is trying to hype me up over our scheduled 2.5% cost of living bump after I directly asked about a market adjustment and I, for one, am not particularly excited.
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Apr 5, 2022 14:49
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BadSamaritan posted:Lol our department is generally hemorrhaging people and my manager is trying to hype me up over our scheduled 2.5% cost of living bump after I directly asked about a market adjustment and I, for one, am not particularly excited.
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Apr 5, 2022 14:50
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priznat posted:I went through the process recently where the place I was interviewing for had a manager who was previously at my current work so he had an idea of what salaries were like there and said they were “significantly better” and I got through the entire process to get an offer that was fundamentally the same as what I was making already. I said I was expecting to go up at least %50 because I had an offer in that range and they said ohhh no that’s too much so we ended it there. Sounds like the manager who was previously at your current job was clueless about negotiating/market rates for his pay at both your current job and his new job. Another example of a situation that shows what can happen if you don't put in any effort to finding out what you're actually worth.
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Apr 5, 2022 15:09
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During an initial phone screen, I was asked what my expectations were as far as compensation (I had put open to negotiation)- I said I would need more information, and asked about what range was being offered. She told me a number, and asked if the number would work for me What's the best answer to that question?
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Apr 5, 2022 16:48
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Well, does it work for you? If it's at least in the ballpark you say something like "I of course would need to see the complete offer and benefits package to accurately evaluate, but this sounds like a reasonable basis to proceed." That way you haven't committed and you can negotiate later, but you've signaled that you find their offer reasonable enough to proceed. If it doesn't work for you, you should counter.
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Apr 5, 2022 16:51
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I've said that before and they counter by sending you the generic 75 page corp benefits PDF and saying 'there you go, now tell me whether it will work for you' so you will need to push back again lol.
Inner Light fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 5, 2022 |
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Apr 5, 2022 17:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Well, does it work for you?
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Apr 5, 2022 17:54
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Inner Light posted:I've said that before and they counter by sending you the generic 75 page corp benefits PDF and saying 'there you go, now tell me whether it will work for you' so you will need to push back again lol. If you just sit on that long enough you have two options: 1) Craft your own dream offer based on that information and submit it to them 2) Say "these look good! Let me know what salary would be associated with this position." - then hold out until they either crack and give you a number or ghost you. When you have all the benefit information, you're in the driver seat - either name the number that will make you say yes, or make them decide. Unless you're full-on just getting negotiation practice, your goal isn't to make them say a number, your goal is to get a good offer. The negotiating-201 lesson is to not anchor yourself before you have all the information you need to name a number that would make you happy.
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Apr 5, 2022 18:02
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Inner Light posted:I've said that before and they counter by sending you the generic 75 page corp benefits PDF and saying 'there you go, now tell me whether it will work for you' so you will need to push back again lol. An honest answer for me is that often it also depends on how interesting the work is or the culture of the team I'm joining and I can't know those things until later in the interview process.
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Apr 5, 2022 21:09
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Hey, have a friend who's now at the negotiation stage with a transit startup and I'm not familiar enough with his type of engineering to know whether he should be pushing extremely hard right now or not. It sounds like he might be a unicorn for this startup (systems engineering but with a transit focus / application vs. defense) so I think he should be pushing a bit but maybe I'm wrong and his skillset is more prevalent than it seems. It's for a remote position and the range they've given is 125k - 130k but with a qualifier that the CTO or someone could find more money from other positions since they're small (~50 employees I believe). So, it sounds like they're already expecting him to push a bit higher than their range. Also, he knows they've completed Series A funding and have funding from various public transit authorities as well as private backing but what other questions should he be asking to evaluate an offer from a startup? He's coming from Defense and public transit companies previously, so quite a bit different from tech startup. I already suggested getting clear on the elements of the comp package (base, bonus if any, equity, etc.) but are there other funding or long-term strategy things he should be asking about as well that's not already covered?
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Apr 5, 2022 21:51
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Dik Hz posted:Let's say you go on 99 wasted job interviews that take 20 hours of prep, commute, and actual interview time for before landing the 100th job. You use the negotiating skills and practice to make $20k more per year for 40 years. That's $800k over your lifetime for 2000 hours of work. $400/hr (I'm too lazy to convert this to 2022 dollars) isn't looking bad to me. Just saying. I'm not saying don't negotiate, I'm saying get the comp ranges earlier in the process. So instead of interviewing with 99 wasted jobs, you can screen out useless ones and devote more time to going on fruitful ones. Asking for comp ranges on the second or third contact with the recruiter doesn't suddenly invalidate your entire negotiation strategy, most reasonably good places to work won't get spooked for asking such a basic question.
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Apr 6, 2022 03:54
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Tektolnes posted:I'm not saying don't negotiate, I'm saying get the comp ranges earlier in the process. So instead of interviewing with 99 wasted jobs, you can screen out useless ones and devote more time to going on fruitful ones. Asking for comp ranges on the second or third contact with the recruiter doesn't suddenly invalidate your entire negotiation strategy, most reasonably good places to work won't get spooked for asking such a basic question. Tektolnes posted:If you're applying for a role that is less of a commodity then sure, you can wait it out and see at the end of the process... if you don't value your time very much. This is wrong and stupid because, although you will waste some time with lowball offers, you don't know which offers are lowballs before going through the process. If you go through the process with every offer, the offer you eventually take will likely be higher than if you had followed a process where you screen heavily on salary at the initial contact. This has a very high payoff, likely the highest payoff you'll get your entire life, in terms of $/hr of effort.
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Apr 6, 2022 12:38
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