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COPE 27
Sep 11, 2006

zombienietzsche posted:

ACAB especially includes park rangers

Rangers are the wario version of wardens

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esperantinc
May 5, 2003

JERRY! HELLO!

zedprime posted:

You should fail the PB&J on purpose with style. "To make a PB&J you must first have a big bang. Then allow the universal material to condense to atoms. Begin stellar synthesis..."

Is it the wrong answer because you willfully misinterpreted the scope of the question and are missing the sense of scale to keep responses brief and relevant? Yes. Will they be tired of hearing the big bang response as a joke? Yes. Will they change their questions up to get something unique? Never. Will you get the job? Do you really want it?

I got the PB&J question once in an interview and I was already sick of their nonsense so I responded with "okay do you want me to start with you planting peanuts/wheat/grapes? Or do you want to eat this sandwich this year? I can tell you how to make it either way." They moved on quickly from there. Got an offer, turned it down, ha.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
Sounds like the only correct answer to the pb&j question is to stand up and walk out without any further response.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

I spent almost four years as a "buyer" with my company before I changed over to being a "Principal Specialist" with another group about two weeks ago, but we're considered buyers. It's been mostly great so far, but today I had a "training" session with one of my new co-workers and apparently I have a lot more direct experience with our purchasing system and she started actual yelling at me when I pointed out a flaw in an order for a vendor I was taking over that would cause them to not be paid. I mean actual screaming to the point where I started laughing at how outlandish it was. She apologized afterwards, but it was loving weird. My understanding is that I already have a reputation built around my knowledge of the mechanics behind the purchasing system and I've apparently shown some of my co-workers functions and possibilities they didn't know existed and this particular person was on leave up until last week and wasn't aware that I had multiple years of experience going into our call, so thought I was posing hypotheticals rather than showing her an actual broken order.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Lazyfire posted:

I spent almost four years as a "buyer" with my company before I changed over to being a "Principal Specialist" with another group about two weeks ago, but we're considered buyers. It's been mostly great so far, but today I had a "training" session with one of my new co-workers and apparently I have a lot more direct experience with our purchasing system and she started actual yelling at me when I pointed out a flaw in an order for a vendor I was taking over that would cause them to not be paid. I mean actual screaming to the point where I started laughing at how outlandish it was. She apologized afterwards, but it was loving weird. My understanding is that I already have a reputation built around my knowledge of the mechanics behind the purchasing system and I've apparently shown some of my co-workers functions and possibilities they didn't know existed and this particular person was on leave up until last week and wasn't aware that I had multiple years of experience going into our call, so thought I was posing hypotheticals rather than showing her an actual broken order.

Do it again. Break your coworker. Laugh at her wails of ineffective rage and take your place as Lazyfire, King and/or Queen of Buyer Nation.

Karia
Mar 27, 2013

Self-portrait, Snake on a Plane
Oil painting, c. 1482-1484
Leonardo DaVinci (1452-1591)

Outrail posted:

Sounds like the only correct answer to the pb&j question is to stand up and walk out without any further response.

The correct answer is to say "watch closely" and pull a loaf of bread, peanut butter, and jelly out of your bag.

Blue Moonlight
Apr 28, 2005
Bitter and Sarcastic
My eighth-grader informed me there’s some debate online about whether there are more doors or wheels, and asked me what I thought. He did not appreciate my answer of “I suppose it depends on what you consider a wheel and what you consider a door,” so I guess my son’s going to grow up to be a hiring manager.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

Outrail posted:

Do it again. Break your coworker. Laugh at her wails of ineffective rage and take your place as Lazyfire, King and/or Queen of Buyer Nation.

I've already formed an alliance with the other Green Bay Packers fan in the group. Very weird to find another Packers person in a small organization, especially one where everyone is in New England, but it was welcome by both of us as we're the two newest members of the team.

I hate to be arrogant about all this, but I AM the king of Buyer Nation, I was told today that my boss hired me partially because he could see me taking over his job when he retires. He's been interviewing people for another opening and lamenting that I not only blew out every person who interviewed for my spot, but made all the people he's talking to now look bad, and they all currently work for the company, so they aren't randoms. The job came with an above-market raise and director level people being made aware I was starting, and the director started suggesting I start taking on projects even before I was fully on the team. My wife works for the same megacorp in a different business unit (same company) and is weirded out by the level of attention my hiring got as usually the announcement of a new buyer wouldn't leave the director level, instead I got announced by the VP of supply chain yesterday (I think the director caused this). This has led to a bunch of fun conversations for her because a bunch of the people she's worked with over the years who have met me thought we had the same last name and were very surprised to see my picture next to a last name they didn't recognize. Suddenly the years of people referring to me as "Mr. Johnson" at company events makes sense.

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap


Hyrax Attack! posted:

Those sound like good guys. Were those all national parks? My friend was a state park ranger and the low pay plus "new hires get sent to least desirable spots" meant that his co-rangers weren't always the best and brightest. One straight up stole a big fridge from their break room to give to a friend who owned a bar. He skipped the whole cover your tracks step so it was only a mystery for a few minutes until their supervisor checked who had access to the breakroom in that time frame and started with the dumbest guy and he cracked immediately. I guess his plan was to hope they didn't notice?

Yeah, National Park/Monument. I think ranger positions draw a lot of people with the promise of some sort of natural resource connection and interpretive work. They do a lot of poo poo work, catch abuse from the public, get sent to remote places where the closest town is a poo poo place, etc. But if you like hanging out in the wilderness in your time off they make a good jumping off point. Sometimes you get good roommates who make it fun.
Hiring is usually by a big pool I think. NPS will advertise 40 seasonal ranger positions all over the country for example, and locations with more relaxed or less specific requirements get the less qualified applicants or those with fewer years on the GS scale (that’s partly speculation).

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Lazyfire posted:

I hate to be arrogant about all this, but I AM the king of Buyer Nation, I was told today that my boss hired me partially because he could see me taking over his job when he retires.

Lol, condolences

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

Armitag3 posted:

i think it was a fairly common tech trivia in interviews for a while

Out-trivia them.
"As your finger descends, the electrostatic interaction between the electrons of the outside of your finger and the electrons of the top of the enter key cause it to accelerate downwards, which in turn brings the electrons of the bottom of the enter key into close contact with those of the restraining spring. This acceleration causes a lattice deformation in the metal of the spring according to..."

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
https://hbr.org/2022/04/stop-framing-wellness-programs-around-self-care

Strangle the author with a garden hose, tia.

Basically saying workplaces should stop giving employees gym memberships and poo poo they want, and instead force them to be each others amateur therapist. This is a fantastic idea that couldn't possibly backfire spectacularly.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Outrail posted:

Basically saying workplaces should stop giving employees gym memberships and poo poo they want, and instead force them to be each others amateur therapist. This is a fantastic idea that couldn't possibly backfire spectacularly.

I agree with part of this: stop giving employees gym memberships and poo poo. Start paying them better and giving them better hours/work-life balance. gently caress a gym membership being part of my company benefits just like gently caress my healthcare being part of that. On the former: you should have enough free time and mone to buy your own. On the latter: this is a broken system and we need single payer/social medicine.

And I'm not trying to conflate two thing that aren't the same here: we can keep going on this. Your "good" retirement account (i.e. 401(k)) should not rely on emplyer sponsorship and unattainable unless they have it. There are simply too many things wrapped up as employee "benefits" that should have nothing at all to do with the specific company you may be currently employed by.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


The correct answer to “how do you make a pb&j sandwich?” is “I don’t: peanut butter is disgusting.”

blatman
May 10, 2009

14 inc dont mez


pro tip: if you skip the bread and jam you can spoon more peanut butter into your mouth before you overshoot your calorie budget

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Outrail posted:

https://hbr.org/2022/04/stop-framing-wellness-programs-around-self-care

Strangle the author with a garden hose, tia.

Basically saying workplaces should stop giving employees gym memberships and poo poo they want, and instead force them to be each others amateur therapist. This is a fantastic idea that couldn't possibly backfire spectacularly.

This is rhetoric to justify keeping staff in the office because gym memberships, therapy and time off mean employees have a life outside work and aren't being managed in an office. There's no wiggle-room in the article to acknowledge an employee might be spending time with their own social circles, there is only Office and Home.

And if you're home you're not socializing with your office collegues, so clearly you're not socializing at all. And that's not healthy, so you should be at the office!

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

please explain why you were less than forthcoming on your thoughts during your last mental health treatment

Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


Atopian posted:

Out-trivia them.
"As your finger descends, the electrostatic interaction between the electrons of the outside of your finger and the electrons of the top of the enter key cause it to accelerate downwards, which in turn brings the electrons of the bottom of the enter key into close contact with those of the restraining spring. This acceleration causes a lattice deformation in the metal of the spring according to..."

https://github.com/alex/what-happens-when

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?
`15 years ago or so I had to do a group interview for a level 1 tech support role. Everyone else wore suits for some reason. At the end we split into groups and 2 of us had to tell 1 other person how to put together a lego police car. I failed the test, at least I didn't get the job.

If anyone ever asks me a stupid question like the PB&J one, here is my answer.

quote:

Well, let's see. First the earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it.


I have it memorized if such an eventuality should ever occur.

Comstar fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Apr 8, 2022

Machai
Feb 21, 2013

How do I make a pb&j? I don't. I make actual lunches that taste good.

Shugojin
Sep 6, 2007

THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...


Outrail posted:

Sounds like the only correct answer to the pb&j question is to stand up and walk out without any further response.

Yeah it's a terrible question for an interview. It's literally in every baby's first programming thing because it's a decent example of "you have to define everything" but it's real condescending to ask in a loving interview lol

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

I am thoroughly preceded

Car Hater
May 7, 2007

wolf. bike.
Wolf. Bike.
Wolf! Bike!
WolfBike!
WolfBike!
ARROOOOOO!

Outrail posted:

Sounds like the only correct answer to the pb&j question is to stand up and walk out without any further response.

"That's personal" while looking disgusted

Exit immediately

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Motronic posted:

I agree with part of this: stop giving employees gym memberships and poo poo. Start paying them better and giving them better hours/work-life balance. gently caress a gym membership being part of my company benefits just like gently caress my healthcare being part of that. On the former: you should have enough free time and mone to buy your own. On the latter: this is a broken system and we need single payer/social medicine.

And I'm not trying to conflate two thing that aren't the same here: we can keep going on this. Your "good" retirement account (i.e. 401(k)) should not rely on emplyer sponsorship and unattainable unless they have it. There are simply too many things wrapped up as employee "benefits" that should have nothing at all to do with the specific company you may be currently employed by.

Useful but non essential poo poo that's just 'nice' like gym memberships is fine imo as long as it's actually wanted and it's counted in the overall package. Medical and other essential things should absolutely not be employer dependant.

I'm trying to find a benefit a package for our staff because they want to go to the dentist and even in the great socialist north that's not covered by the health system. I should be trying to offer training opportunities and career development, not teeth cleaning.

Escape From Noise
Jul 27, 2004

Japan's healthcare has it's issues, especially in places like Osaka where the even more conservative than national government has tried to gently caress with poo poo, but I was able to get my teeth cleaned for under 50 USD and that was paying for the whitening as well. The base cleaning is like half that and is available every six months. I've heard of people having bad experiences in the system here but other than wait times I've never dealt with anything too awful and the out of pocket cost for medical stuff is usually around 20 bucks. It really makes me very hesitant to move back to the US.

Escape From Noise fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Apr 8, 2022

Tinestram
Jan 13, 2006

Excalibur? More like "Needle"

Grimey Drawer

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

that would also be true of a square manhole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nSQs0Gr9FA

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Escape From Noise posted:

Japan's healthcare has it's issues, especially in places like Osaka where the even more conservative than national government has tried to gently caress with poo poo, but I was able to get my teeth cleaned for under 50 USD and that was paying for the whitening as well. The base cleaning is like half that and is available every six months. I've heard of people having bad experiences in the system here but other than wait times I've never felt with anything too awful and the out of pocket cost for medical stuff is usually around 20 bucks. It really makes me very hesitant to move back to the US.

It was eye opening to have coworkers from Canada confused about why there were collection jars in the breakroom to pay for life saving surgeries for children.

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

SAVE THE BEES
PLANT MORE TREES
CLEAN THE SEAS
KISS TITTIESS




I follow @employeetears on Instagram and this Twitter thread was shared, here's the text of it:

quote:

A friend of mine has been trying to hire a new employee for her department in a medium-sized org. After advertising several times with few applicants, and a couple of rounds of interviews, the new employee is less than great. Then she discovered there were other applicants ...

Among them was someone she knows personally, who has a spot-on CV, loads of experience, lives locally and would be the perfect person for the job. So she goes to HR to ask why that application was never sent through to her dept. The answer – she didn't score well.

Score well on what?
It turns out the HR dept adopted screening software that asks a bunch of random questions that applicants must answer quickly, the results of which determine a suitability score. Only those deemed suitable are sent through to the department for interview.

The test supposedly shows with a high degree of scientific accuracy whether an applicant is suitable, giving scores for self-confidence, caring nature, respect for authority etc.

So regardless of someone's qualifications and experience, if they don't pass the personality test, their application doesn't even make it past HR.
So my friend sat down with the dept head and took the test. She scored 1 star.

She has worked there for more than 10 years and is quite senior in the department. She has been recognised with internal and external awards for her work. But she wouldn't even get an interview for a junior casual spot in her dept because she failed a personality test.

The HR dept insist their system is highly accurate and they will not pass on any applications from people who don't pass the test. So now the entire department, along with a few senior members of other departments are all taking the test, and coming up with some very poor scores

So if you're wondering why you never got an interview for that job you *know* you would be perfect for – it might be because recruiters are basically slaves to lovely software.

There *might* be some systems out there that are actually good at this, but I doubt it. It's basically reading tealeaves or the entrails of a sacrificed goat. People's careers are being derailed by HR astrology. It's clearly not ideal for the orgs that need good people either.

Likewise, if you’re wondering why you can’t find the right people for that crucial position, it might be because Gwyneth in HR is excluding people using repurposed love quizzes from 1980s magazines

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

I discovered why I got the Google brainteasers interview: HR is an ex-Google recruiter.

It wasn't even a programming job. Or in the computer toucher industry. It's a loving insulation company.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

I follow @employeetears on Instagram and this Twitter thread was shared, here's the text of it:
Umm excuse me, I think you will find that the personality tests are highly acclaimed automation capabilities that can reduce the HR overhead for screening interviews for ungodly percents. Do you want good employees or less HR? Truly a hard decision.

McGavin posted:

I discovered why I got the Google brainteasers interview: HR is an ex-Google recruiter.

It wasn't even a programming job. Or in the computer toucher industry. It's a loving insulation company.
Programmers stole half of them from engineers anyway. If it's just a logic puzzle, engineers probably used it first. If the answer is looking for an algorithm it's a programming specific puzzle.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

It was a finance/accounting position.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Ahh, yes, the number engineers.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

nut posted:

my boss does this cool thing where when he has something for me to look at, usually a document is what im talking about here, he'll making a rumbly motor sound even though he is just walking but in the sound it sounds like a car and he'll rumble walk up to my desk and, get ready, go PAST it a pace or two. He then stops while making a screeching brake sound with his mouth and then a clunky sound which he told me later is him shifting to reverse. He backs up a pace and drops off the document. Then, as if nothing happened, he walks away soundlessly (soundless regarding the car sounds, he wears very puffy Osiris shoes that are pretty noisy with how he walks)

your honor we find the defendant Not Guilty

Cheesus
Oct 17, 2002

Let us retract the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wirebrush of enlightenment.
Yam Slacker

TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

I follow @employeetears on Instagram and this Twitter thread was shared, here's the text of it:
Oh don't forget the followup:

https://twitter.com/TheWrongNoel/status/1194842728862892033 posted:

Update: This process is still in use at the org in question and it turns out to be even worse than it first seemed. The scores are benchmarked against one individual who management deem to be the ideal employee. To get a high score you need to answer the same way they did.

Perfect if you want an army of ambitious people focused on career progression, but not so great if you need people who are suited to the variety of different roles within the org.

Samuel L. Hacksaw
Mar 26, 2007

Never Stop Posting

zedprime posted:

Ahh, yes, the number engineers.

Accountants are lawyers that use math instead of spoken and written argumentation.

King Hong Kong
Nov 6, 2009

For we'll fight with a vim
that is dead sure to win.

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

Yeah, National Park/Monument. I think ranger positions draw a lot of people with the promise of some sort of natural resource connection and interpretive work. They do a lot of poo poo work, catch abuse from the public, get sent to remote places where the closest town is a poo poo place, etc. But if you like hanging out in the wilderness in your time off they make a good jumping off point. Sometimes you get good roommates who make it fun.
Hiring is usually by a big pool I think. NPS will advertise 40 seasonal ranger positions all over the country for example, and locations with more relaxed or less specific requirements get the less qualified applicants or those with fewer years on the GS scale (that’s partly speculation).

Aside from certain bureaucratic complications related to announcements (of which there are hundreds) and referrals, seasonal hiring is not so much handled as a pool as it is an application to a particular position at a particular unit. Some units are less desirable and less competitive so they might wind up with more inexperienced or less qualified applicants but that’s really because it’s closer to a standard job market than people seem to expect (even down to units increasingly realizing that being reliant on lots of temporary, low-paying jobs as opposed to the more desirable permanent positions may not be sustainable).

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth
e: wrong thread

ChickenDoodle
Oct 22, 2020

TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

I follow @employeetears on Instagram and this Twitter thread was shared, here's the text of it:

A new role was created for me in my company - I was told about it and head hunted cause I was basically already doing the work, it was just going to be official with this new position. I did have to do things the “official” way still. So I submitted my resume and waited. And waited. And then I followed up with the manager.

They didn’t get my application because the HR program, despite the position being labeled as country-wide, didn’t put me through as I put “not willing to relocate” for an at-home job halfway across the country.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Cheesus posted:

Oh don't forget the followup:
Update: This process is still in use at the org in question and it turns out to be even worse than it first seemed. The scores are benchmarked against one individual who management deem to be the ideal employee. To get a high score you need to answer the same way they did.

Perfect if you want an army of ambitious people focused on career progression, but not so great if you need people who are suited to the variety of different roles within the org.
I love the concept of the ideal employee, because I feel pretty confident that it's either:
A.) The CEO himself, who is clearly the ideal employee, of course you are sir.
B.) We asked every group what they wanted so now we have a list of 57 different criteria, and yes the list contradicts itself.

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SubponticatePoster
Aug 9, 2004

Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.
Slippery Tilde

Scientastic posted:

The correct answer to “how do you make a pb&j sandwich?” is “I don’t: peanut butter is disgusting.” I have a peanut allergy, if I'm in the same room as one I'll end up in the ER so thanks for making fun of me. You'll be hearing from my lawyer."

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