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prom candy posted:Anyone here broken into software dev more recently, or know someone who has? My wife keeps looking at my job with envy and I suggested she give coding a try and see what she thinks. I have no idea what the job market is like for juniors though. She'd definitely have to take a pay cut but she's been in marketing for almost 20 years and it's feeling like the job market there is really drying up and most of what's available either pays peanuts or is an absolute corporate hellscape job or both. There are marketing analytics roles that could leverage her marketing experience and require a little less coding skills. Might be easier and more attractive than pivoting to full on developer.
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Apr 8, 2022 02:08
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Maybe look at the Salesforce trailhead stuff for Marketing and Sales Cloud. Play with it a bit and take the admin certification exams. Always jobs for Salesforce admin/devs.
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Apr 8, 2022 03:45
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Xguard86 posted:There are marketing analytics roles that could leverage her marketing experience and require a little less coding skills. Might be easier and more attractive than pivoting to full on developer. This was my initial thought too but she's not really big on analytics. I should bring it up again because it's a pretty hot industry from my understanding. BigPaddy posted:Maybe look at the Salesforce trailhead stuff for Marketing and Sales Cloud. Play with it a bit and take the admin certification exams. Always jobs for Salesforce admin/devs. Interesting, Salesforce is like not a world that I'm familiar with at all but I'll take a look and send it over, thanks!
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Apr 8, 2022 04:53
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Edit: wrong thread
tak fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 04:58
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If she's got 20 years of experience in marketing I would look at either doing marketing for IT companies, or do a lateral move into the product side of software development. Like, do market research for a software product, be a product owner or move into a managerial position somewhere in IT. Starting from scratch seems like a waste.
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Apr 8, 2022 09:06
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thotsky posted:If she's got 20 years of experience in marketing I would look at either doing marketing for IT companies, or do a lateral move into the product side of software development. Like, do market research for a software product, be a product owner or move into a managerial position somewhere in IT. Starting from scratch seems like a waste. She's been trying that but companies these days want direct industry experience. She's interviewed for several SaaS companies but they've all ended up hiring people who are already in software. Maybe BFC has some ideas about how to make that kind of move. She's had a really broad career so far rather than just working in one specific industry. You're definitely right though that starting over in your late 30s would be tough.
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Apr 8, 2022 14:03
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prom candy posted:This was my initial thought too but she's not really big on analytics. I should bring it up again because it's a pretty hot industry from my understanding. Well ... if she doesn't like analytics the odds of enjoying or even tolerating coding are pretty low. At least from what I've seen. Product marketing is also an option although still has that "break-in" problem. If she could do a 2-step by getting into a tech company as a marketer and then move internally that is a common path. Not like it's easy but I'm assuming she'd be more competitive for a role like that vs starting over
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Apr 8, 2022 17:29
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Xguard86 posted:If she could do a 2-step by getting into a tech company as a marketer and then move internally that is a common path. Not like it's easy but I'm assuming she'd be more competitive for a role like that vs starting over It also might get her past keyword filters at future jobs. Past or current experience at Gapplesoft, even unrelated, could get human eyes on her resume better than a dev role at Joe's Tire Chain or Noname the startup.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:45
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Xguard86 posted:Well ... if she doesn't like analytics the odds of enjoying or even tolerating coding are pretty low. At least from what I've seen. You think? I don't really like analytics either. The main thing I like about coding is that I get to build stuff. I had a lot of opportunities to do analytics stuff when I worked at an agency and I found it dry as hell. I also really dislike DevOps. wilderthanmild posted:It also might get her past keyword filters at future jobs. Past or current experience at Gapplesoft, even unrelated, could get human eyes on her resume better than a dev role at Joe's Tire Chain or Noname the startup. We're Canadian so we don't quite have the same access to big American tech companies here. They do have offices but the big one here is Shopify. I make almost all my money contracting for small American companies.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:11
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prom candy posted:You think? I don't really like analytics either. The main thing I like about coding is that I get to build stuff. I had a lot of opportunities to do analytics stuff when I worked at an agency and I found it dry as hell. I also really dislike DevOps. Yeah I'm of the opinion that while analytics is generally important and can be interesting, I'm not really interested in it and don't want to do it. Rough if you want to leverage that marketing experience though!
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Apr 8, 2022 19:06
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The job market is absolutely poo poo hot right now. She could do a bootcamp course supported by you and some extra curricular React Native or something like that. From that she'd get a junior position somewhere. With her marketing experience I can see an agency snapping her up. That's if she doesn't want to leverage her marketing experience directly moving into product management etc.
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Apr 8, 2022 19:28
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Yeah I guess I was thinking about the sorta slow try -fail-fix and detailed technical part. But if that's not a turn off, rock on. I actually kinda like an analysis over development because I like being able to answer questions and see things others can't. Maybe also why I'm product not dev.
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Apr 8, 2022 22:20
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Company's trialing some new offshore resources for whatever reason. We have a pretty large app that was built before React FCs so it's all class components. The new offshore team wants to refactor the entire thing to FCs before they touch new features. Like dude I love my FCs too but class components are still perfectly fine even in React v18.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:14
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“You are behind current tech so we want to refactor everything, here is a quote for 6 months labor”
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Apr 12, 2022 17:53
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Protocol7 posted:Company's trialing some new offshore resources for whatever reason. It is annoying when you want to use a hook for something and then find out it's a class component. But it's also not that hard to refactor them as-needed.
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Apr 12, 2022 19:51
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Protocol7 posted:Company's trialing some new offshore resources for whatever reason. Offshoring sucks and management will learn the hard way. Just kidding! They won’t learn
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Apr 12, 2022 19:54
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I updated JetBrains IDEs recently and while they didn't fix many of the longstanding bugs and performance issues, they do now offer unhelpful grammar advice for your comments by default. It's like pair programming with a particularly obnoxious coworker who only gives the most inane feedback.
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Apr 13, 2022 06:21
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Protocol7 posted:Company's trialing some new offshore resources for whatever reason. at least they're interested enough to (1) know about the latest react features and (2) interested in using them bi crimes posted:Offshoring sucks and management will learn the hard way.
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Apr 13, 2022 08:44
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Protocol7 posted:Company's trialing some new offshore resources for whatever reason. And you're just going to pause all other development for 6-9 months for this to happen? Or are they going to merge the changes into the new refactored world?
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Apr 13, 2022 08:50
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Aramoro posted:And you're just going to pause all other development for 6-9 months for this to happen? Or are they going to merge the changes into the new refactored world? Nah we're just telling them tough, the class components have to stay. But new components can be developed as FCs if they prefer. For my other job the offshore team there decided to update a client demo environment the morning before a client demo after everything had already been dry run, so I got to rip into them for that as well. Don't work for startups that employ offshore teams I guess.
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Apr 13, 2022 15:15
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Protocol7 posted:Don't work for startups that employ offshore teams I guess. I have seen multiple startups use off shore technical resources and it never works out because it is hard to be “agile” and move fast and break stuff with someone who is 12 hours adjacent.
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Apr 13, 2022 15:54
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But they're cheap!* *Not including the time your on-shore resources have to spend dealing with offshore BS
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Apr 13, 2022 16:00
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BigPaddy posted:I have seen multiple startups use off shore technical resources and it never works out because it is hard to be “agile” and move fast and break stuff with someone who is 12 hours adjacent. lol my company's attempt to use offshore development was an abysmal failure that ended up causing more work for on site employees. Thankfully management wasn't pig headed about it and gave up early enough - but not before burning out a couple of real good developers who left.
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Apr 13, 2022 17:45
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I just had our mobile app built by a US based company that uses LatAm devs. It’s in React Native using readable, idiomatic code, I give them that. And the app works and looks great, two months past the original estimate. There’s also no test folder and “they can’t write docs in English so that’s not a thing we usually do.” Well tested code was an explicit requirement at the beginning but that has now been negotiated down to “there will be a vertical slice of examples of how to test RN code.” I told them to write the docs in Spanish. I or someone my staff can probably translate them.
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Apr 13, 2022 19:28
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I've not worked in a space where we would outsource code, but literally every time I've had to work without outsourced code, it's been a disaster and would almost have always been cheaper to just hire a quality firm state side to get the desired result. My favorite story here is a Power Utility that purchased a whole cooperate internal website for low seven figures, and proceeded to ditch it after 2 months because of how nonfunctional it was. Every story I have is more or less theme and variation on the same thing.
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Apr 13, 2022 19:36
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Soon to be exclient spent seven figures with us and eight figures with Salesforce and cancelled everything because of internal targets and politics. I am all for not being a victim of sunk cost fallacy but I am not sure that works for when you want to take a project from another team because it is the new coolness and you want to make sure you get your bonus. As for Latin American offshore teams I have had good experiences with them as well as Eastern European teams. I am negotiating to have some more Latin American devs available for some up coming projects since there is some concerns about being able to keep using devs w shave based in Belarus if things go more to hell in that part of the world. But BigPaddy why do you use outsourced developers and yet tell us about companies who did it and hosed up?!? Because I have good project managers who understand that I need milestones and demonstrable progress at the end of every sprint to show clients and so structure our plans around that and make sure the client knows what to expect, when and communicate if anything changes.
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Apr 13, 2022 19:44
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Protocol7 posted:Nah we're just telling them tough, the class components have to stay. But new components can be developed as FCs if they prefer. We'll have a product manager here in the states work entirely with offshore developers. The offshore developers will take inputs from product management and output the code we want. And we'll save a ton of money!
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Apr 14, 2022 02:32
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My company decided to save costs they would convert some open headcount in the US to open headcount in Mexico. Only we've never hired in Mexico before so we don't have a recruiting pipeline built up. So effectively management ended up saving *even more* money because they converted US headcount to unfillable headcount all while being to lie to ICs with a straight face that their teams totally didn't become less well staffed.
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Apr 14, 2022 02:53
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captkirk posted:My company decided to save costs they would convert some open headcount in the US to open headcount in Mexico. Only we've never hired in Mexico before so we don't have a recruiting pipeline built up. So effectively management ended up saving *even more* money because they converted US headcount to unfillable headcount all while being to lie to ICs with a straight face that their teams totally didn't become less well staffed. For bonus points Mexico has some interesting labor laws including guaranteed bonus and vacation.
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Apr 14, 2022 03:23
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BigPaddy posted:I have seen multiple startups use off shore technical resources and it never works out because it is hard to be “agile” and move fast and break stuff with someone who is 12 hours adjacent. If a startup is trying to save money by outsourcing, they're focusing on the wrong thing. That's the move you do when you can no longer grow your revenue. As a startup, you can do two things that the big boys can't do: adapt faster, and bet the farm. If you have to schedule a meeting with someone in order to get something done, the only thing left you can do is YOLO pivot.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:28
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philihp posted:the only thing left you can do is YOLO pivot. One place I was with tried this and hey sometimes it works out but this example woof. Paid some random ex Salesforce guy a cool million for his nodeJS “platform” that wasn’t finished to try and build a platform to be the Salesforce of Education. The CEO of that poo poo show tool $30m from a large university system that advertises on TV about their remote learning. $10m was burned in the first two years on “research” which was going to conferences and expensing everything as “entertainment”. The rest was spent on expensive offices that were half empty, external developers that did substandard work and by the time I was hired as the first dev had to fix most of it and a product team of 5 people doing more research yet never able to pick a product to develop. So when people wonder how start ups explode in massive drama bombs after burning millions of dollars, that is is why.
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Apr 15, 2022 22:10
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How do you deal with stylistic change requests in code reviews? Say I’ve got this pseudocode: code:code:Is this actually important, or not really an issue?
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Apr 21, 2022 15:33
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Depends, if I have a client ask for style changes I just do it because in theory I won’t be the one maintaining it going forward. If it was a place where I was a FTE and there was no style guide I would push back and say that style is personal preference and not something that should be included in a review. If they want style to be reviewable there needs to be a style guide accepted by the team.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:39
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That's a bit odd for a refactor. On one hand, it does prevent the second for loop from running potentially unnecessarily, but if you're checking !isFoo and then returning isFoo later, that's a code smell to me. At that point isFoo is only going to be false. At face value the way you have implemented it is more logically clear and consistent to me.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:39
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That's not a style change, it's an optimization for both loops to run only as long as needed.
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Apr 21, 2022 15:46
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At that point we’d have to think about how much that code actually needs to be optimal. Optimization-first isn’t necessarily a good thing. But that’s context dependent, so I get what you mean. That does mean there’s an optimization vs. clarity trade off happening, though, which is worth considering.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:11
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The early return logic could be clearer (maybe with good variable names?) but the root of the suggestion is good. Don't do more work than you need to when it is trivial to break out the loop or whatever. Shame there's no list.find or list.exists in whatever language you're using, that's exactly what you need.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:16
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Yeah, the pseudocode is standing in for Go, so nothing like that out of the box and there’s no appetite here for using packages or libraries for that functionality.
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Apr 21, 2022 16:31
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code style should be enforced with static code analysis. If it’s not important enough to write or import a rule for, it’s not a blocker. Though this can depend upon what is included in your scope of code style. I don’t know that exiting loops early or optimizations count as code style though. It’s annoying but I’d probably make the change if it’s a minor enough effort
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Apr 21, 2022 16:38
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Did the reviewer say why they preferred their version? Because if it's just about the early return/breaks, those could just be added to your original code
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Apr 21, 2022 16:41
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