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Manager Hoyden posted:Just so I know what to do in my home in the future, is locking the front door at night racist? Locking vehicle doors? Everything that happens in America is, at best, racism-adjacent.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:35
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Manager Hoyden posted:Just so I know what to do in my home in the future, is locking the front door at night racist? Locking vehicle doors? Doing so could be considered a violent display of alienation and defensiveness, so be aware that some people may judge you.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:35
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Manager Hoyden posted:Just so I know what to do in my home in the future, is locking the front door at night racist? Locking vehicle doors? Only if you have the sign
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Apr 7, 2022 21:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The funniest/saddest part is that the Secret Service and FBI were totally unaware of these guys for an entire year and they got busted by lying to the Post Office. Yep. You DO NOT gently caress with the Post Office.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:43
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Willa Rogers posted:Big shocker that those who are white and who earn enough to live in safe communities think police presence is sufficient or excessive. I’ve said this before but it’s a big blind spot for the left. Minorities absolutely have issues with the police but they don’t want to abolish the concept entirely. They simply want them to be held accountable when using excessive force and use de-escalation whenever possible. I’ve never heard a fellow brown or black person in the wild say “We should ban all cops.” VitalSigns posted:Iirc black polling has bands of opinion that break along age lines, with younger black people who are more likely to be targets of police harassment and violence being more likely to support reduced policing There is definitely an age gap, but where the median is even among youth is far away from the average goon’s opinion.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:52
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Crime is racialized in America. “Tough on Crime” is recognized as a racist dogwhistle. So security systems, the culture around them and the discussions around them cannot be disentangled from race. Also communism doesn’t mean you’re not secure in your home, it just means you’re not allowed to own a factory. So when you perpetuate “communists want to make it illegal to lock your door” stereotypes you are mouthing John Birch rhetoric, an insanely reactionary thread which I often am disappointed but not surprised to see picked up by liberals.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:59
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selec posted:Crime is racialized in America. “Tough on Crime” is recognized as a racist dogwhistle. What about people who live in other countries than the USA who desire home security? As to communism, I didn't think that Harold was saying that under communism it would be illegal to lock my door. What I do feel is very skeptical that people who live under communism would lose the desire to lock their doors.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:04
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How are u posted:What about people who live in other countries than the USA who desire home security? Other countries are not relevant to the discussion.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:05
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The other really stark thing from the Philadelphia study is not the cops/crime/safety/guns (although, it is mind-blowing how many people are directly impacted by guns every single day and how few of them feel safe in their own homes and neighborhoods) it is how people with college degrees experienced an almost entirely different world in the pandemic. Having a college degree - any college degree at all - put people in a very different experience during the pandemic. - Most people who had a college degree worked from home, most without did not. - Most people with a degree never lost their job during the pandemic, about 1/3 of people without did. - Most people with a degree said their financial situation stayed the same or improved during the pandemic, about 40% of people without said it got worse. - Almost nobody with a degree said they were concerned about becoming homeless during the pandemic, about 1/4 of people without a degree did. It didn't even matter what degree you had, what age you were, what ethnicity you were, or even what job you had. Just having the degree put you in a completely different lived experience than about 30-40% of the rest of the population.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:08
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selec posted:Other countries are not relevant to the discussion. I'm expanding the discussion by asking what you would think about people in other countries. My apologies, you don't have to answer, obviously.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:10
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selec posted:Crime is racialized in America. “Tough on Crime” is recognized as a racist dogwhistle. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The other really stark thing from the Philadelphia study is not the cops/crime/safety/guns (although, it is mind-blowing how many people are directly impacted by guns every single day and how few of them feel safe in their own homes and neighborhoods) it is how people with college degrees experienced an almost entirely different world in the pandemic. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 22:10
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Very concerning. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1512177178154352657?s=21&t=LEjrcallJIMW4F8aYSkhAw Big wave of covid going through DC at the moment.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:30
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They still don't know what those guys were trying to accomplish, but it seems like they have got to either be Iranian spies or the most generous and unlucky Iranian-immigrant airsoft/networking/firearm/drone/cosplay enthusiasts ever. WEHT those Pelosi/DNC staffers who were arrested for espionage a few years ago?
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Apr 7, 2022 22:37
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Mellow Seas posted:Why do you think it is that minority voters are currently expressing so much anxiety about crime? Like, I get that "crime" is something people express concern about because of racial discomfort, but that doesn't seem to mean it can't also be an actual problem that needs to be addressed. Because poverty, like crime, is racialized in the US. The poorer you are, the higher the chances that you are a racial minority, a victim of crime, or convicted of crime. So the prevalence of home security signage in predominately white, upper middle class neighborhoods which are statistically least likely to be targeted for property crime demonstrates that racial and class component. Read the debate in any neighborhood message board when new bus lines or housing development is proposed—lots of people with IN THIS HOUSE WE BELIEVE signs in their yards develop absolutely gonzo theories on what bus exhaust contains, because they know their feelings have no language they can express them in that is acceptable in public.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The funniest/saddest part is that the Secret Service and FBI were totally unaware of these guys for an entire year and they got busted by lying to the Post Office. Technically 4 individual secret service members were very aware. That's honestly the wilder part to me, how easy it was to just start offering secret service guys free poo poo and having them be happy about it. Comedy option is those guys are CIA or something and this is 3 agencies all catching each other in different stings. Seems unlikely though. How are u posted:Doing so could be considered a violent display of alienation and defensiveness, so be aware that some people may judge you. This whole thing has spun so wildly from Willa's original comment about signs. I don't get the point of posting like that, it generates awful discussions and seems to be all about trapping people in weird puzzles.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:We don't actually know who or what they intended to target or that they intended to kill anyone. If they were, and assuming that because they are Iranian they were working for the Iranian government, it wouldn't make a ton of sense for the Iranian government to want to assassinate Jill Biden. Or why they spent a year doing this if they just wanted to hurt people. Maybe they'll get lucky like the congressional IT spies & plead to bank fraud & nothing else. (lol, they were convicted for lying on a mortgage application after having access to congressional computers for several years.)
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Apr 7, 2022 22:48
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Willa Rogers posted:WEHT those Pelosi/DNC staffers who were arrested for espionage a few years ago? Willa Rogers posted:Maybe they'll get lucky like the congressional IT spies & plead to bank fraud & nothing else. I forgot about that story, but the link you are sharing says that the claims he was secretly a spy for Pakistan weren't true? And they were a thing started by The Daily Caller and Trump to claim that Seth Rich and this guy were killed by Hillary/taking the fall to fake the DNC email hack and try to pin it on Trump and Russia? quote:Subject of conservative conspiracy theories
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Apr 7, 2022 22:53
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selec posted:Crime is racialized in America. “Tough on Crime” is recognized as a racist dogwhistle. Crime messaging is often racialized in America, but crime itself is an actual thing that actually exists, y'know. There are very few things in the US that can be successfully disentangled from race, but that doesn't mean that everything is always about race all the time. It means people have to approach poo poo with eyes wide open and pay close attention to the nuances, instead of making wild sweeping statements. White supremacists rely heavily on false narratives about crime as an excuse to justify racist, segregationist, and oppressive behavior toward minorities and poor people in general, yes. Ideological tales about "the criminal element" have been constructed to justify all kinds of discrimination, going back to the early days of policing. Even in the modern era, plenty of racist assaults have been committed under the pretext of a fearing that the black victim was a potential criminal. But on the other hand, poor people and minorities are far more likely to be the actual victims of actual real crimes that happen. Not just white supremacist crime, either - plenty of standard-rear end violent crimes like armed robbery or murder! In particular, African-Americans are much more likely to be victims of violent crime. In a given year, about half of homicide victims are black, despite the fact that only 10-15% of the US population is African-American. Moreover, poor and minority neighborhoods in general tend to be more heavily targeted by crime - not to the level imagined by suburban white flight folks who act like you'll get shot instantly if you take one step into the neighborhood, but still a pretty noticeable increase. As such, minority communities often have some very real concern of their own about crime. It doesn't get the same media coverage or the same political influence as white concerns about crime, but it's there and it's real. Finally, "Tough on Crime" rhetoric is a narrative that's fundamentally about oppression. It's not about safety or about protection, it's about oppression - about using authoritarian state power to harshly penalize people who've been accused of crimes, and doing its utmost to ruin people's lives. Comparing that to a yard sign is a bit wild.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:56
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Discendo Vox posted:The argument of the article is "nothing". The author appears to believe that resolving other sources of inequality will make child abuse not exist. It is...not very persuasive. It's telling that the article puts 1,500 words between where it raises the question of addressing the alternative, and the nonanswer it devotes to answering it. What in the article indicates the author believes that eliminating those sources of inequality will eliminate child abuse completely, rather than just lessen it? The latter seems reasonable, since child abuse is strongly correlated with socioeconomic factors.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:58
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Koos Group posted:What in the article indicates the author believes that eliminating those sources of inequality will eliminate child abuse completely, rather than just lessen it? The latter seems reasonable, since child abuse is strongly correlated with socioeconomic factors. I would also love to untangle assumptions about abuse and socioeconomics: Do well-off people abuse their children at the same rate as poor people? If not, why not? If yes, what’s to be done?
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Apr 7, 2022 23:24
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Bugsy posted:Nancy Pelsoi has covid. Oh, I just read an article that she was supposed to go to Taiwan this week - first time a Speaker would come here since Gingrich. I guess that isn't happening now.
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Apr 8, 2022 00:07
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Koos Group posted:What in the article indicates the author believes that eliminating those sources of inequality will eliminate child abuse completely, rather than just lessen it? The latter seems reasonable, since child abuse is strongly correlated with socioeconomic factors. It's the gap between "The most common objection I hear to abolishing the child welfare system is 'How else will we protect children from severe abuse in their homes?'" and the discussion of mutual aid and payments at the tail end of the article. There is no other response provided for the question, so the author's solution of undoing the system appears to be either "this abuse will continue to exist and go unaddressed, and that's fine" or "all of it will go away". I chose the more charitable interpretation; Leon's summary covers the same ground. I'll note the "natural experiment" in new york just looks like deregulatory paradoxic reporting; a reduction in the apparatus intended to monitor and address a problem meant the problem seemed to go away. The evidence that she claims demonstrates there was no unresolved issue during the reduced period was no increase in the substantiated allegation rate when reporting resumed, which...isn't how that works. It's a bit like the food industry claiming that the FDA is poisoning the food supply because when they were unable to do manufacturing inspections during the pandemic, the number of food facility violations dropped. See also: the gun industry and NIH funding on gun violence.
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Apr 8, 2022 00:14
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Discendo Vox posted:It's the gap between "The most common objection I hear to abolishing the child welfare system is 'How else will we protect children from severe abuse in their homes?'" and the discussion of mutual aid and payments at the tail end of the article. There is no other response provided for the question, so the author's solution of undoing the system appears to be either "this abuse will continue to exist and go unaddressed, and that's fine" or "all of it will go away". I chose the more charitable interpretation; Leon's summary covers the same ground. I'll note the "natural experiment" in new york just looks like deregulatory paradoxic reporting; a reduction in the apparatus intended to monitor and address a problem meant the problem seemed to go away. The evidence that she claims demonstrates there was no unresolved issue during the reduced period was no increase in the substantiated allegation rate when reporting resumed, which...isn't how that works. It's a bit like the food industry claiming that the FDA is poisoning the food supply because when they were unable to do manufacturing inspections during the pandemic, the number of food facility violations dropped. See also: the gun industry and NIH funding on gun violence. Ah, that makes sense.
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Apr 8, 2022 01:54
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I laugh at people who are constantly watching their homes or businesses remotely from their second/third home, or from the vacation they're supposed to be enjoying. Honestly having enough money to own all that property (housing and material goods) plus fancy security monitoring networks does not bode well for my opinion of you. And you're probably twisted up and miserable, weighed down by your material baggage. Still, BECAUSE I own little beyond what I need, and don't have savings, anybody caught stealing from my apartment or vehicle better find themselves contrite and submissive if ya know what I mean. I'm keeping my stuff or getting killed. I find that attitude even more understandable for people with dependants (though reasonably they have more responsibility to stay alive, but that's not the way I usually see that conversation go). I don't know if this is, uh, ideologically tight, but it seems and feels very natural. Fwiw, I've spent time with what I can only call thieves, they are not all desperate displaced victims (any moreso than the rest of us) and some of them will justify taking anything from anybody simply because they want it. I don't lust for the blood of burglars, and back when I had social media I definitely unfriended people for postings those type of (racist) memes. I also don't and won't ever own a gun, course my apartment is so small anything but a shotgun would be at a disadvantage. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 01:57
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Hello. I am a bad faith troll.
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Apr 8, 2022 04:14
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mycophobia posted:Hello. I am a bad faith troll. Well I don't know about that. You certainly seem amicable and open to reasonable discourse, so I must respectfully disagree here;
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Apr 8, 2022 05:20
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I'm a good faith troll.
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Apr 8, 2022 07:07
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Main Paineframe posted:Crime messaging is often racialized in America, but crime itself is an actual thing that actually exists, y'know. There are very few things in the US that can be successfully disentangled from race, but that doesn't mean that everything is always about race all the time. It means people have to approach poo poo with eyes wide open and pay close attention to the nuances, instead of making wild sweeping statements. Poor people and minorities are more likely to be victims of crime because this country does everything in its power to disenfranchise and marginalize both. You need to stop looking at it as "their concern about crime is real" because that talk just leads to more dumb poo poo like throwing bales of cash at police. Start seeing the problem as "they have crime because of capitalism-enforced generational poverty". A community with terrible material conditions will delve into the black market because people have basic needs that need to be met. Crime is absolutely going to explode as the working class gets poorer and more desperate, and the rhetoric surrounding it will be used to complete the transition into a police state. You can't have these levels of inequality without one, because people who can't eat tend to murder their oppressors.
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Apr 8, 2022 07:07
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The other statement I've seen made about the "Do you want more cops Yes/No" is the question itself is part of the cop culture, if your only option for dealing with crime is cops. If your community has been marginalised until crime is the only escape you want "something" to deal with the crime more cops are the only possible answer no matter how objectionable the cops are. This doesn't ask if anyone wants other measures to be taken to reduce crime because the other measures don't exist as options. It's cops or nothing. Like the whole defund the police thing was a drive to spend that money on stuff that would reduce the causes of crime, because cops sure as gently caress don't do that. EDIT: People are only asked if they want cops, with the unspoken assumption being that they reduce crime, rather than being asked if they want crime reduced, and what measures to reduce crime should be taken. hooman fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 07:45
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If you live in a poor neighborhood, defund the police sounds like cops will ignore your calls even harder than usual and white people will get any new programs.
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Apr 8, 2022 07:49
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But what if we gave more money to the police? What if we gave all the COVID money to them?  https://twitter.com/SamTLevin/status/1512109658432888840?s=20&t=hR5JBibs1QqCGPoLisFQ5Q https://twitter.com/SamTLevin/status/1512109969084014598?s=20&t=hR5JBibs1QqCGPoLisFQ5Q https://twitter.com/SamTLevin/status/1512114094689509403?s=20&t=hR5JBibs1QqCGPoLisFQ5Q
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Apr 8, 2022 09:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Love the game of telephone argument going on. I'm really lucky I'm in MA and even luckier that im five four and I can pass. I still absolutely refuse to go to places by myself anymore.
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Apr 8, 2022 13:07
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hooman posted:The other statement I've seen made about the "Do you want more cops Yes/No" is the question itself is part of the cop culture, if your only option for dealing with crime is cops. If your community has been marginalised until crime is the only escape you want "something" to deal with the crime more cops are the only possible answer no matter how objectionable the cops are. This doesn't ask if anyone wants other measures to be taken to reduce crime because the other measures don't exist as options. It's cops or nothing. This is a very good point and pretty well sums up why I don't buy arguments centered around "actually, minorities want cops." Our culture is constantly soaked in copaganda and alternatives are ignored. It's interesting how perfectly the arguments about children services dovetail with arguments about police defunding. Same expectation that opponents have to fully solve every problem that can be imagined in order to be taken seriously. Mods you seem very touchy about "fully explaining", please consider asking if there's anything you need expanded on before smashing the sixer thanks in advance Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 13:07
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Dick Trauma posted:But what if we gave more money to the police? What if we gave all the COVID money to them? Let's just give the entire city and state budget directly to police. Have them run all enforcement and government.
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Apr 8, 2022 13:15
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Cranappleberry posted:Let's just give the entire city and state budget directly to police. Have them run all enforcement and government. A 'police' state if you will.
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Apr 8, 2022 14:07
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Finally, a union will have a say in government
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Apr 8, 2022 14:15
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Swan: What's your moral redline? McConnell: Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. I’ve seen horrors, horrors that you’ve seen. But, you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that, but you have no right to judge me. It’s a simple calculus. This universe is finite, its resources, finite, if life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist. It needs correction, and I’m the only one who knows that. At least I’m the only one with the will to act on it. It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel. https://twitter.com/axios/status/1512109194328956928
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Apr 8, 2022 14:30
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Harold Fjord posted:This is a very good point and pretty well sums up why I don't buy arguments centered around "actually, minorities want cops." Our culture is constantly soaked in copaganda and alternatives are ignored. Also didn't we just witness a "defund the police" poll that was worded in such a way that nobody would choose to defund the police? If you're polling people and asking if they want to get crimed on, they say no, and you mark that as "does not support defund the police", then its garbage in garbage out.
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Apr 8, 2022 14:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. I’ve seen horrors, horrors that you’ve seen. But, you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that, but you have no right to judge me. It’s a simple calculus. This universe is finite, its resources, finite, if life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist. It needs correction, and I’m the only one who knows that. At least I’m the only one with the will to act on it. It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.  Clearly I need more caffeine...His kids like him, guys! What makes somebody like McConnell tick is probably not something we'll ever be able to know. I don't doubt that he genuinely considers himself to be a good person. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 15:04
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Bishyaler posted:Also didn't we just witness a "defund the police" poll that was worded in such a way that nobody would choose to defund the police? If you're polling people and asking if they want to get crimed on, they say no, and you mark that as "does not support defund the police", then its garbage in garbage out. Yep; it was the NBC poll from last week. Willa Rogers posted:Also the loaded questioning about the police & crime: "supports funding the police & providing them the resources & training they need to protect our communities." May as well ask whether respondents want their women & children to be raped & brutalized or do they want the noble men & women in blue to protect them.
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Apr 8, 2022 15:55
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