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Taken from the guardian. A child’s toy left behind at the Kramatorsk train station where a Russian missile attack struck Kramatorsk train station in Ukraine where civilians were evacuating.  code:
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Apr 8, 2022 15:54
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Commoners posted:What you're attributing to incompetence should be better recognized as cold malice. Well it’s not cold malice it seems more like irrational rage. They’ve done everything they can to enrage the Ukrainian population for no apparent gain
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Apr 8, 2022 15:55
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Hekk posted:I am just struggling to come to terms with the fact that the boogie man I spent decades being told was a near peer is in fact almost completely inept. Before OIF/OEF, we used to drive Russian BMPs around the desert as OPFOR and train our units how to fight our Cold War enemy. All of our exercise outcomes included massive losses to our forces because of Russian capabilities. loving same. Its wild watching a 30 year bluff get called.
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Apr 8, 2022 15:55
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A Festivus Miracle posted:Here, have our astonishingly expensive and ineffectual for what they're actually intended for destroyers (that are larger than WW2 cruisers). As soon as they arrive in the Black Sea, you're going to need to put them in dock because the transition from Atlantic waters to Black Sea waters (being less saline than the Mediterranean) has caused an immense amount of corrosion and if you don't fix it the jets that move the vehicle are going to stop being able to turn in their mounts. I mean If we could somehow make it unmanned it would deprive the russians of at least 1-3 anti-shipping missiles. I call that win-win.
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Apr 8, 2022 15:57
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Sentinel posted:loving same. Its wild watching a 30 year bluff get called. Clearly they should have been staffed with State Defense Forces… although those guys are probably gonna be too overqualified too.
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Apr 8, 2022 15:57
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Hekk posted:I wasn’t taught immediate action for much of anything in boot camp outside of resolving rifle misfires. However, just because a very specific scenario wasn’t covered in detail doesn’t mean that common sense steps to keep an individual from putting their entire unit at risk weren’t drilled into our heads. Okay, I misspoke. IA drills weren't really a thing in boot camp. However, they were taught (along with not bunching up, fire bases, IA to ambush, bounding over watch) at Basic Warrior Training and were practiced repeatedly during unit exercises even when I was attached to non-combat units. "every man a rifle man" etc...
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Apr 8, 2022 16:00
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Well it’s not cold malice it seems more like irrational rage. They’ve done everything they can to enrage the Ukrainian population for no apparent gain The intent is the same as Allied firebombing during WWII. Make the civilian populace turn on it's leadership and end the war.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:02
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The idea that Russia, having expended a staggering chunk of its stockpile of PGM and cruise missiles, wouldn't be using the Tochka's they build in Moscow is dappy even without the proof already posted.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:05
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Murgos posted:The intent is the same as Allied firebombing during WWII. Make the civilian populace turn on it's leadership and end the war. Has this ever worked?
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Apr 8, 2022 16:11
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PCjr sidecar posted:Has this ever worked? Nope
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Apr 8, 2022 16:18
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The idea that Russia, having expended a staggering chunk of its stockpile of PGM and cruise missiles, wouldn't be using the Tochka's they build in Moscow is dappy even without the proof already posted. It seems like they are running out of toys and are just shuffling around the box to find anything to use at this point. SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Nope And even more, with the right leadership and visibility like Zelenskyy is doing, it achieves the EXACT opposite effect and hardens resistance.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:21
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St_Ides posted:Couldn't you put them in freshwater? Move them to the great lakes and use them as modern training ships They are entirely useless. Reference: I was classmates with one of the port engineers in undergrad.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:32
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M_Gargantua posted:training for what? Or search and rescue ships after climate change ramps up storms on the Great Lakes. Does the coast guard operate anything big on the Great Lakes?
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Apr 8, 2022 16:33
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Murgos posted:The intent is the same as Allied firebombing during WWII. Make the civilian populace turn on it's leadership and end the war. So, another thing outdated since WW2 that Russia didn't get around to replacing?
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Apr 8, 2022 16:41
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pantslesswithwolves posted:The tankies are claiming that Russia doesn’t use the Tochka-U missile, but Ukraine does so it’s another false flag by the Azov Battalion meant to bring NATO into the war. They very much *do* still use the missile. Russia never throws anything away. They used the Yankee-class missile boats until the hulls practically rusted through, and as has been pointed out many times, their tanks are pretty much re-treads (in some cases literally) all the way to the T-90. It's like the LSD interrogation scene in The Good Shepherd, "it's all painted rust, nothing is working, there are no spare parts." I mean, I know living in the west makes concepts like "we have a new thing, why would we keep the old and obsolete thing," but if you're going to stan a murderous, authoritarian regime, maybe learn a bit about their acquisitions processes.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:54
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Sentinel posted:loving same. Its wild watching a 30 year bluff get called. I enlisted in the Reagan 80s and we trained expecting to get squashed by the Soviets (I was in the 82nd). Now this...I have almost no words.
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Apr 8, 2022 16:57
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Maybe they were a lot better back then?
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Apr 8, 2022 17:00
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BIG HEADLINE posted:They very much *do* still use the missile. Russia never throws anything away. They used the Yankee-class missile boats until the hulls practically rusted through, and as has been pointed out many times, their tanks are pretty much re-treads (in some cases literally) all the way to the T-90. Yeah. They're also leaning very hard on the whole 3 months that have passed since they undeniably had an active unit armed with Tochkas. https://twitter.com/CITeam_en/status/1512425874867593221
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Apr 8, 2022 17:00
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zoux posted:Maybe they were a lot better back then? I doubt it. It was a corrupt dictatorship back then as well, with all the same flaws. Just with a different ideological coat of paint.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:09
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Red Dawn. Fortress America. What a loving joke.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:14
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Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:17
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A.o.D. posted:Red Dawn. Fortress America. What a loving joke. Invasion USA Is ironically the one “closest” to reality of all the asymmetrical warfare in terrorism minute. It even got the director invited to the White House after 9/11.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:19
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. I mean, compared to everything else (the engine, flight control, communications) the explosives are comparatively not that expensive, it doesn't seem like a great trade.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:21
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. For that effect probably any old commercial drone of similar size would do. Assuming they ever actually see the drones. My guess is that they're functionally invisible to armoured units, especially ones sans infantry support.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:22
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. The explosives aren't the expensive part.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:23
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. The warhead isn't the expensive part. And money is no practical object. If you are carrying it around, you'd want it to blow poo poo up. Off-the-shelf recon drones have way better range and loiter, and are reusable.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:26
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. Why make them paranoid when making them dead/inoperable is an option? Insert Futurama's line about bloated military budgets here.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:26
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:For that effect probably any old commercial drone of similar size would do. Assuming they ever actually see the drones. My guess is that they're functionally invisible to armoured units, especially ones sans infantry support. That makes sense, I was imagining whenever Russian convoys were moving they'd have to worry about near constant swarms of drones overhead without knowing which ones were threats. Yeah probably any random drone would do for that purpose. Slo-Tek posted:The warhead isn't the expensive part. And money is no practical object. If you are carrying it around, you'd want it to blow poo poo up. Off-the-shelf recon drones have way better range and loiter, and are reusable. Gotcha that's understandable. Seems like Ukraine is already using drones to spectacular effect but seems like they aren't advertising that too much, probably don't want to give away too much about their tactics or risk Russia changing convoy strategies to avoid being wrecked so often.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:39
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I like this guy. https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974/status/1512470188322611207?s=21&t=hZSFiZw-bHMNrXAt8Id2kg
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Apr 8, 2022 17:39
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Ah but you see sending funds to help Ukraine via crypto is better than FIAT CURRENCY because it's more real and finite.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:43
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Question from an uninformed person regarding those Switchblade drones we are sending over in large numbers. Would it be standard practice that in addition to the expensive explosive models they would also deploy barebones models with no weapons and only enough tech to get airborne and linger but that otherwise look the same? Seems like a cost effective way to make Russian armor paranoid. Turkey's handling that apparently - baby bayraktars already spotted in Ukraine https://twitter.com/kemal_115/status/1512437004419670033?s=20&t=gPGK-5k_ISa_5rhqPd2gsw Apparently the video of the drone following a soldier back to his unit was taken by one of these. Article: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/new-bayraktar-uavs-spotted-in-ukraine.html quote:Though the Mini Bayraktar is visually much less glamorous than its larger UCAV brethren, being a hand-launched design optimised for surveillance and reconnaissance, it is precisely this type of design that can prove invaluable in improving the combat efficacy of ordinary infantry units. Furthermore, the Mini Bayraktar was continuously improved since its inception, with the newest D variant featuring a communication range of 15 kilometres, around 80 minutes of endurance and a maximum altitude of some 1200 metres. [3] 
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Apr 8, 2022 17:44
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KitConstantine posted:Turkey's handling that apparently - baby bayraktars already spotted in Ukraine One of the subtexts to US support and the Switchblades specifically that isn't getting a lot of play is that there's absolutely a market competition going on where Turkey is showing off how useful their drones are and I'm positive that US weapons companies are demanding a chance to show off US drones as a part of it.
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Apr 8, 2022 17:51
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Doesn't the switchblade launch from a mortar tube?
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Apr 8, 2022 17:57
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I enlisted in the Reagan 80s and we trained expecting to get squashed by the Soviets (I was in the 82nd). Now this...I have almost no words. DekeThornton posted:I doubt it. It was a corrupt dictatorship back then as well, with all the same flaws. Just with a different ideological coat of paint. SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Prior to the invasion I figured they were at least competent enough to not just fire shells for funsies into evacuation centers with zero military value I swear to god I'm not a tankie, but what if... just what if... the entire threat of Russia was exaggerated just a teeny tiny bit for political and economic reasons to the benefit of Raytheon et al., and we didn't have to be this poo poo-scared of them the whole time because they were always this hollow
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Apr 8, 2022 18:06
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The killing of civilians isn't out of rage, or not giving a gently caress, It's an intentional part of the plan to try and demoralize Ukraine as a whole. Local slaughters are to get locals to not resist and not get any funny business of opportunistic attacks. Same poo poo the Nazis or other lovely groups did.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:07
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Notahippie posted:One of the subtexts to US support and the Switchblades specifically that isn't getting a lot of play is that there's absolutely a market competition going on where Turkey is showing off how useful their drones are and I'm positive that US weapons companies are demanding a chance to show off US drones as a part of it. speaking of countries using ukraine to show off their own special tech https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1512467036470976519?s=20&t=sONI81hY69h4XVroX11i-w Starstreaks are genuinely important for Ukraine right now, but c'mon its definitely also for dickwaving purposes
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Apr 8, 2022 18:09
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Kesper North posted:I swear to god I'm not a tankie, but what if... just what if... the entire threat of Russia was exaggerated just a teeny tiny bit for political and economic reasons to the benefit of Raytheon et al., and we didn't have to be this poo poo-scared of them the whole time because they were always this hollow They were, demonstrably, pretty capable circa 1945. The question is, when did they degrade to the poo poo show we see today?
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Apr 8, 2022 18:16
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Kesper North posted:I swear to god I'm not a tankie, but what if... just what if... the entire threat of Russia was exaggerated just a teeny tiny bit for political and economic reasons to the benefit of Raytheon et al., and we didn't have to be this poo poo-scared of them the whole time because they were always this hollow You should go over to Ukraine and tell them that Russia is a paper tiger and their war isn't such a big deal. e: like Russia is six weeks into launching the largest conventional war seen in Europe in decades, 'hey they probably aren't a real threat to anyone' is not the take.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:20
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Flikken posted:Or search and rescue ships after climate change ramps up storms on the Great Lakes. Does the coast guard operate anything big on the Great Lakes? You’ll need another ship to rescue them after they break down going above idle speed. Their best use is target practice. Being aluminum they wouldn’t even be very useful for fire fighting training.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:23
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Kesper North posted:I swear to god I'm not a tankie, but what if... just what if... the entire threat of Russia was exaggerated just a teeny tiny bit for political and economic reasons to the benefit of Raytheon et al., and we didn't have to be this poo poo-scared of them the whole time because they were always this hollow The bomber gap and missile gaps were 100% this, their conventional capability I think is more of a surprise. That being said I’m sure some people figured it out when they started paying soldiers in potatoes and such.
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Apr 8, 2022 18:24
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