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Citizen Z
Jul 13, 2009

~Hanzo Steel~


Cugel the Clever posted:

I tried out some super cheap bikes without torque sensors the other day and was amazed to realize just how spoiled I am to have one on mine. The first ebike I ever tried had one and it makes the ride just feel completely natural, while these bikes were much less pleasant rides. Not sure how much of it was just their garbage-tier quality overall.

Both the bikes we own are cadence sensors with throttle. I keep thinking when I get a replacement, I want a torque sensor with a throttle...

But now I'm wondering if that's not necessary. I mostly use the throttle to live a little juice when starting off because it takes the cadence sensor a second to kick in. Are the torque sensors just instant power?

Through I do occasionally just hoon around on throttle only, and that's fun too.

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Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Citizen Z posted:

But now I'm wondering if that's not necessary. I mostly use the throttle to live a little juice when starting off because it takes the cadence sensor a second to kick in. Are the torque sensors just instant power?
CopperHound's description is spot on. I guess I'd expand on it to say that, with the cadence sensor, it feels like the bike is superpowered, while the torque sensor makes it feel like you are superpowered. There's zero delay, so there's minimal actual need for the throttle. I'd highly recommend getting out to a shop and taking a test ride to feel the difference and evaluate how much it matters to you.

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

Dren posted:

I was looking at a specialized and the shop that sells those around here is owned by the guy who maintains the trails and rides them all the time so if I buy from him he's gonna def know what I'm up to. If I go this route I'll probably have a convo with him first to see if this is a really strict rule or more of a "don't be an rear end in a top hat and we don't have a problem" rule.
In the US a pedelec can do 32km/h, that's PLENTY fast for riding with pedestrians lol.

bicievino posted:

In many places, just getting Class 1s approved took huge fights, and pushing the limits could remove that entirely. For some folks that would be a bit of a bummer, for folks who need adaptive use options it could mean they just don't get to enjoy the trails at all.
Yeah, in my neck of the woods the cyclists are *rabidly* anti electric anything above pedelec, because they know the trails will just get shut down to all bikes.

acidx posted:

Been building a Surly Wednesday fat ebike that's going to be driven by a 1000w middrive motor for the last couple months. My internally geared hub that was on backorder forever has finally come in, so the next step is to get the wheels laced up.


Is that S-A hub rated for the power you plan on giving it?

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Mar 28, 2022

acidx
Sep 24, 2019

right clicking is stealing

evil_bunnY posted:

Is that S-A hub rated for the power you plan on giving it?

Not explicitly, but the Nexus and SA 3 and 5 speed hubs are claimed to be more heavy duty than the ones with more gears. I'm going to be pairing this specific hub with a 1000w bbshd motor. There's a lot of people who have used that combo and posted about it in forums. Some swear by it, some say it broke on them very quickly. I'm going to put in a gear shift sensor, set up the sprockets so that it doesn't have a crazy amount of torque for hill climbing on the low end, and just take it easy and hopefully I can get some longevity out of it. It would be awesome if it works well for me, because I could use a thicker single speed chain and have a perfect chainline in all gears. If it doesn't last, but I like the bike and the concept, I might spring for a Rohloff down the road.

Grumio
Sep 20, 2001

in culina est
Any thoughts on the Radcity 4 for a commuter bike? It's in my price range, is well reviewed and most importantly is actually in stock. Thought I'd still ask here if anyone had any experience with them or suggestions for alternatives

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013

Grumio posted:

Any thoughts on the Radcity 4 for a commuter bike? It's in my price range, is well reviewed and most importantly is actually in stock. Thought I'd still ask here if anyone had any experience with them or suggestions for alternatives

I test-rode one, I ended up with the radrunner 6plus because I *really* liked the fat tires. But the radcity 4 was fine too.

LlamaTrauma
Jan 12, 2005

Well here I am
Drunk in Heaven
Kinda seems redundant

Grumio posted:

Any thoughts on the Radcity 4 for a commuter bike? It's in my price range, is well reviewed and most importantly is actually in stock. Thought I'd still ask here if anyone had any experience with them or suggestions for alternatives

This has been my daily commuter for about a year now, and I really love it. I have a very hilly route to work, so never considered a bike before, but this finally made it realistic.

I test drove a few other bikes in the price range before purchasing (A few Aventons, VanMoof) and thought the City4 felt a lot more … fun, I guess. More responsive throttle, more power. Love the shocks. But stock brakes weren’t as good, and the front light is garbage. My wife also got the step through version after shopping around and thinking it outperformed at its price point. Now we ride around with cute matching baskets.

I live a few blocks from one of their showrooms too, and when I had a problem with my wheel a few hundred miles after purchase they looked at it during a walk-in and fixed it for free. So great service if you just so happen to be a neighbor.

Citizen Z
Jul 13, 2009

~Hanzo Steel~


Grumio posted:

Any thoughts on the Radcity 4 for a commuter bike? It's in my price range, is well reviewed and most importantly is actually in stock. Thought I'd still ask here if anyone had any experience with them or suggestions for alternatives

I ride a Rad Rover 5 (the fat tire mountain bike). The mechanical disc brakes suck and the stock headlight blows for seeing (It's fine to be seen IMO). Everything else is pretty good, especially at the price point. I slapped an 800 lumen USB headlight for seeing and some cable-actuated hydraulics on to solve those.

I think the newer models are full hydraulic?

Jamais Vu Again
Sep 16, 2012

zebras can have spots too
Yep, upgrade them brakes before you get a break of your own.

Grumio
Sep 20, 2001

in culina est
Thanks!

A Bag of Milk
Jul 3, 2007

I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.
I'm also thinking about getting a Radcity 4, but my last two bikes were stolen out of my apartment garage, so I'm going to have to keep it in my place. Does anyone have any experience horizontal mounting such a heavy bike on the wall? It's 64lbs, and I was eyeing the Cycloc Hero which claims to be able to do up to 66lbs: https://cycloc.us/collections/horizontal-storage/products/hero

halokiller
Dec 28, 2008

Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves


Depends on how sturdy your walls are and if you're willing to lift 60+ lbs of unwieldy metal every day. Any reason you can't leave it on the floor aside from maybe space? I just use a bike rack like this in my apartment and had no issues.

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007
so I'm looking to buy an e-bike, mostly for my ~1mi work commute that's almost entirely uphill on the way back home. There's a local bike shop that has the Cannondale Treadwell Neo 2 in stock, and it looks pretty ideal to me (lightweight, not overpowered, doesn't look dumb), but I didn't know anything about e-bikes until I started looking at them two days ago. any red flags with this model that I'm missing? anything similar I should check out under $2k?

I just need something to bang up and down this hill without a ton of effort.

Man_of_Teflon
Aug 15, 2003

Is that battery removable/replaceable?

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007

Man_of_Teflon posted:

Is that battery removable/replaceable?

Not removable for charging (not an issue for me currently) but it is replaceable according to the service manual

A Bag of Milk
Jul 3, 2007

I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare.

halokiller posted:

Depends on how sturdy your walls are and if you're willing to lift 60+ lbs of unwieldy metal every day. Any reason you can't leave it on the floor aside from maybe space? I just use a bike rack like this in my apartment and had no issues.

I don't mind lifting the bike, and space is indeed the issue. Floor space is such a premium in my apt yet I have a perfect spot on the wall that my bike could go. I'll try drilling into the studs and hoping for the best. That rack is a nice suggestion for floor storage though.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

acidx posted:

No lectric XP 2.0? It's definitely the most popular folding ebike at that pricepoint.

I'm almost sold on the XP 2.0. Do you know how well it handles hills using pedal assist or throttle? One of the key things I'm looking for is to not exhaust myself on the way home going uphill.

Hdip
Aug 21, 2002
A bunch of older guys use it to bike into San Onofre. Surf spot. They surf all day until their legs are dead. Then they load up surfboards and gear onto the racks and use the throttle to ride up the hill back up to their sprinter vans. I'd say it works pretty good.

acidx
Sep 24, 2019

right clicking is stealing
So long as the hills aren't ridiculously steep and you carry some speed into them so you aren't trying to accelerate from zero while going uphill, you won't really notice them.

There's a pretty comprehensive hill test in this video if you'd like to see it in action.

https://youtu.be/rXHdrTeYuNo

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice
Thanks! That review is really informative. Well, I'm pretty much sold, and so is Mrs. BOB.

Grumio
Sep 20, 2001

in culina est
I was just about to bite the bullet on the RadCity when a family friend offered me their barely-used RadRunner for a steal. Not quite what I had in mind but it saves me a whole bundle of money, it'll work well for a 30 min commute and I like all the customization options. Will definitely look at getting some hydraulic brakes; any recommendations? Heard someone recommend Juintech calipers from Bolton ebikes

Grumio fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 5, 2022

SamsCola
Jun 5, 2009
Pillbug

Grumio posted:

I was just about to bite the bullet on the RadCity when a family friend offered me their barely-used RadRunner for a steal. Not quite what I had in mind but it saves me a whole bundle of money, it'll work well for a 30 min commute and I like all the customization options. Will definitely look at getting some hydraulic brakes; any recommendations? Heard someone recommend Juintech calipers from Bolton ebikes

I got the hydraulic calipers from Bolton and hated them. Ended up with this instead and couldn't be happier.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000339838869.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite

Citizen Z
Jul 13, 2009

~Hanzo Steel~


SamsCola posted:

I got the hydraulic calipers from Bolton and hated them. Ended up with this instead and couldn't be happier.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000339838869.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite

I found mine to be a good enough improvement for the money. While I know full hydraulic is better, just haven't felt like doing the work to run hydraulic lines through the frame.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Grumio posted:

Heard someone recommend Juintech calipers from Bolton ebikes

I thought my Juintechs were a step below the standby of cable-pulled hydraulics, the TRP Hy/Rd. I'm not 100% those have an arm that'll work with long pull MTB levers.
Juintech does make a 4 piston caliper that's supposed to be much stronger, but at their price, I'd definitely be doing full hydros.
I don't see enough pics of how the cables are routed on the RadRunner, but you might have to at least peel off that cable loom to separate stuff.
For fully external routing, it'd be a relatively easy and safe DIY job, since you won't need to disconnect the hydro calipers. Provided you have some zip ties and hex keys.

Citizen Z posted:

just haven't felt like doing the work to run hydraulic lines through the frame.

Oh, the RadRunner has some internal routing? Add ~$50 or so for a shop to install the brakes if you can't DIY, then.

Citizen Z
Jul 13, 2009

~Hanzo Steel~


kimbo305 posted:

Oh, the RadRunner has some internal routing? Add ~$50 or so for a shop to install the brakes if you can't DIY, then.

Rover, not runner. And yeah, it's got internal routing for the rear cables.

Cost isn't the issue, it's that all my local shops are so back logged that it takes 1-2 weeks for anything because they're so backlogged. I'd rather just do things myself to keep my bike available.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Citizen Z posted:

Rover, not runner. And yeah, it's got internal routing for the rear cables.

Grumio has a Runner, so maybe it's different and hopefully just external.

SamsCola
Jun 5, 2009
Pillbug
It took me maybe an hour to replace the stock Radrunner brakes with those hydraulic ones and get them tweaked. I didn't find it difficult or time consuming to route the lines in the frame, fwiw.

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.
Hello thread. I'm very slowly starting to consider a bike commute, at least part-time, and thought I'd pop in for a better definition of "faster."

This would be the route: 12 miles, +459ft and -105ft. It's not the fastest route, but it is the most trail + bike lane-focused, so I'm OK with adding 10 minutes or so vs. dodging F150s on the other routes. Google Maps projects it would to take about 1:10. Frankly, that seems overly conservative, but OK.

Taking 1+ hours on a regular bike twice per day in the TX heat would be... let's say inadvisable, so this would most likely not be a year-round thing. Still, I'm curious how much one can reasonably expect to shave off from that total. I'm sure it depends on how you ride and what your bike can do, so a ballpark would be more than enough -- would it be 20% faster? More?

(further I go down this rabbit hole, more I think I should just get a rental first to see how feasible the whole thing is)

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
How many stops is the commute? That is the biggest determinant of how much higher speeds will help lower times.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013

Trabant posted:

Hello thread. I'm very slowly starting to consider a bike commute, at least part-time, and thought I'd pop in for a better definition of "faster."

This would be the route: 12 miles, +459ft and -105ft. It's not the fastest route, but it is the most trail + bike lane-focused, so I'm OK with adding 10 minutes or so vs. dodging F150s on the other routes. Google Maps projects it would to take about 1:10. Frankly, that seems overly conservative, but OK.

Taking 1+ hours on a regular bike twice per day in the TX heat would be... let's say inadvisable, so this would most likely not be a year-round thing. Still, I'm curious how much one can reasonably expect to shave off from that total. I'm sure it depends on how you ride and what your bike can do, so a ballpark would be more than enough -- would it be 20% faster? More?

(further I go down this rabbit hole, more I think I should just get a rental first to see how feasible the whole thing is)

Fwiw Google maps says my home->work commute also in Austin of about 7 miles is 31 minutes there and 34 minutes back.

Actual tends closer to 23 there and 25 back even during rush hour.

I'm using a class 2 ebike with a top speed of 20mph and I tend to just max out the pedal assist when commuting to save time.

SamsCola
Jun 5, 2009
Pillbug
In my experience, biking on my class 2, it takes about as long as Google says (in Chicago). I do hit a lot of stoplights though. I think that's a bigger impact than raw speed.

Of course I also get passed by acoustic bikes all the time so maybe I'm just slow.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

SamsCola posted:

acoustic bikes
I can't say that I have been passed by many of these.

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.

kimbo305 posted:

How many stops is the commute? That is the biggest determinant of how much higher speeds will help lower times.

If by that you mean how many stops along the way I plan to make, it's just home --> work, with no intermediate stops. But if you mean stoplights/signs, then I estimate 3 miles on the trail (no stops), another 4.5 through a residential (single family homes) area with only stop signs and relatively few of them, and the remaining 4.5 through a mix of residential and public roads which have both stop signs and lights.


L0cke17 posted:

Fwiw Google maps says my home->work commute also in Austin of about 7 miles is 31 minutes there and 34 minutes back.

Actual tends closer to 23 there and 25 back even during rush hour.

I'm using a class 2 ebike with a top speed of 20mph and I tend to just max out the pedal assist when commuting to save time.

:wave: OK, that's about a 25% time reduction and pretty much the approach I would take. Do you happen to take any part of the route I linked? (read: should I avoid any of it?)

SamsCola posted:

In my experience, biking on my class 2, it takes about as long as Google says (in Chicago). I do hit a lot of stoplights though. I think that's a bigger impact than raw speed.

Of course I also get passed by acoustic bikes all the time so maybe I'm just slow.

Hmm. That wouldn't be great but there's nothing like just trying it out for myself and see how it works out.

Also :laffo: for "acoustic."

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Trabant posted:

If by that you mean how many stops along the way I plan to make, it's just home --> work, with no intermediate stops. But if you mean stoplights/signs, then I estimate 3 miles on the trail (no stops), another 4.5 through a residential (single family homes) area with only stop signs and relatively few of them, and the remaining 4.5 through a mix of residential and public roads which have both stop signs and lights.

:wave: OK, that's about a 25% time reduction and pretty much the approach I would take. Do you happen to take any part of the route I linked? (read: should I avoid any of it?)

25% would be tremendous, but I think unlikely.
Break the commute into 3 pieces, and feel free to apply 13-15mph to the trail part with no lights.
For the residential leg, take a 10s hit per stop sign.
And then 10mph is prob reasonble through the city with lights.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013

Trabant posted:



:wave: OK, that's about a 25% time reduction and pretty much the approach I would take. Do you happen to take any part of the route I linked? (read: should I avoid any of it?)



My commute is all south of the river.

I also found a route that only hits 8 stoplights and 2 stop signs in that distance

mystes
May 31, 2006

I just ordered a radexpand 5... time to join the ebike revolution I guess.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

I just went through troubleshooting an interesting problem: My direct drive hub motor assist would just cut out seemingly randomly, but just giving the brakes a tap would bring it back. As my ride went on the failures progressively happened more often until the point where the motor would engage for only a moment at a time.

I checked the motor wires for opens or shorts, then checked the hall sensors and everything seemed fine until I put the hall sensors on a scope:


That noisy part of the signal seemed very odd to me, so I decided to open the motor up. Here is what I found:

The hall sensor wires were rubbing up against these ribs:


Unfortunately I don't think I have anyone to blame but myself this time because it is a motor that I had rewound myself. I did my best to tie things down well with some abrasion resistant paper and put it back together.
About half way through tying it down in this pic.


I'm not 100% sure I have it cinched down enough to not rub at all, but it is working for now and I am hopeful.


E: if any of y'all are curious about the winding: That is a 46 magnet motor wound with 14 turns. It tops out around 17mph at 48 volts. My goal was for more low speed efficiency torque for a given current because it is used for heavy loads.

CopperHound fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 9, 2022

Invalido
Dec 28, 2005

BICHAELING
Awesome, I really appreciate this post. It's inspiring. I have previously repaired both my gearless and geared motors in various ways but it's mainly been bearings and axle seals and straight cable replacements and the like. I should really learn to be more like you and up my electrical game I think.
I have a broken geared rear hub laying around where the controller screen says a hall sensor is messed up that I've been meaning to hook up to an oscilloscope and hopefully repair for a few € in parts. It would be great to have a spare motor for my main commuter laying around. (Salt water ingress, I assume either corrosion of electronics directly or more likely rubbing caused by slop in the rusted and busted wheel bearing which I rode on knowingly for weeks because I'm a bad person).
I also have a 24V front wheel in the attic I found in the trash that maybe could be re-wound or something to suit my various retired 36V components to make a fun project, you know, for the kids.

E: I should also stop procrastinating and finally build that spot welder I've gathered parts for and learn how to make my own battery packs which is something I've been meaning to do for years.

Invalido fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Apr 10, 2022

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Invalido posted:

I also have a 24V front wheel in the attic I found in the trash that maybe could be re-wound or something to suit my various retired 36V components to make a fun project, you know, for the kids.

E: I should also stop procrastinating and finally build that spot welder I've gathered parts for and learn how to make my own battery packs which is something I've been meaning to do for years.
Brushless motors don't really care what voltage you run up to a point as long as you have some sort of current limiting controller. You'll be able to get more speed out of it, but not more torque.

I've been wanting to get into battery projects, but the cost of loving up is pretty high if I'm not careful about where I store and charge the batteries. My intentions would be to match up batteries for the purpose of refurbishing packs, not making some big 96v monstrosity.

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HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice
Did my first real ride on the Lectric XP 2.0 for about 10 miles and it was pretty awesome! It's really fun to ride, and the pedal assist felt really smooth. The throttle helped tremendously going up hills and at stoplights. Such a blast going out for a bike ride while still picking up some groceries and other necessary stops.

Even if I was a much better bicyclist, it would have been a strain to do this on a regular bike because of all the hills. But with an ebike, it was not only doable but super fun.

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