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In a Werewolf 20th game I played last year, we just made Tribes into political groups and took out a lot of the ethnic stereotypes. So Fianna weren't specifically Irish, but they were the "yolo" party tribe. Uktena weren't all Native American, Get weren't all German, and so on. I takes out a lot of the racism if you just make them not a genetic predisposition. The W tribe didn't exist.
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Apr 10, 2022 17:27
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Dawgstar posted:There's in fact a tribe named after a people's legends who, it turns out, would really prefer it if people didn't write it or speak it out loud. I don't think Uktena is taboo but you're still shoving a lot of indigenous folks under a vague horned serpent myth that most don't have. (Technically Uktena covers from the southern US all down through South America.) Sgt. Rage is welcomed with open arms among the Bone Gnawers, many of whom actually enlisted along with their kinfolk. And yeah, the issue with the Uktena always felt like it was more "here's a whole group of shifty and 'mysterious' magical indigenous people made up of all sorts of tribal confederations that either never met or didn't get along."
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Apr 10, 2022 17:31
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Pakxos posted:Wasn't a lot of the wroth over V5 the fact that the Sabbat were excluded from being officially supported character options? Mostly from the impression Paradox had given at the time before the book dropped the Sabbat would be playable and were disappointed they weren't. Some of the writers did a Storyteller Vault that fixed that for which your own personal mileage will vary in regards to making up for it. When the main book dropped it just felt like another dumb move from Ericsson but I'm tried of rehashing Swedracula. He's not interesting or even relevant to the line anymore.
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Apr 10, 2022 17:33
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Cool Dad posted:In a Werewolf 20th game I played last year, we just made Tribes into political groups and took out a lot of the ethnic stereotypes. So Fianna weren't specifically Irish, but they were the "yolo" party tribe. Uktena weren't all Native American, Get weren't all German, and so on. I takes out a lot of the racism if you just make them not a genetic predisposition. Yeah that's probably the best you're going to do while sticking to the wta framework.
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Apr 10, 2022 19:05
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Dawgstar posted:When the main book dropped it just felt like another dumb move from Ericsson but I'm tried of rehashing Swedracula. He's not interesting or even relevant to the line anymore. Yeah, my bad, you were talking about Revised specifically, not the V5 situation.
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Apr 10, 2022 19:18
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Pakxos posted:Yeah, my bad, you were talking about Revised specifically, not the V5 situation. It's all good. One thing that occurred thinking about the work that would have to be put into Woof 5E is the Croatan. Not only is it something you probably want to have a sensitivity reader take massive swipes at, the 'secret' as it were of the Roanoke colony is pretty well documented as they just left. So all three native tribes* need a close eye upon them. *Wait, no, also Bunyip but I wouldn't even know where to start with them.
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Apr 10, 2022 19:35
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That's probably why requiem is still kids of similar to masquerade but WTF just dumped everything and started from the ground up. Or moon down?
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Apr 10, 2022 19:47
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Soonmot posted:That's probably why requiem is still kids of similar to masquerade but WTF just dumped everything and started from the ground up. Or moon down? It's been discussed in the thread before, but WtA probably was the oWoD setting that relied on the current cultural context the most to give itself any meaning. You take away the 90s ecology movements and 90s positive stereotyping, and what do you have? Not much.
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Apr 10, 2022 20:11
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You could definitely have a game of "getting extremely mad about fighting a losing war against structural forces with occasional punchable avatars while the planet burns and drowns" resonate in the year of our lord 2022, but yeah, you would need to strip out everything about the actual factions in it for it to not involve strangulating levels of collar-tugging at all times.
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Apr 10, 2022 20:21
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In fairness, I still weep whenever I consider the potato famine, so
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Apr 10, 2022 21:20
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:You could definitely have a game of "getting extremely mad about fighting a losing war against structural forces with occasional punchable avatars while the planet burns and drowns" resonate in the year of our lord 2022, but yeah, you would need to strip out everything about the actual factions in it for it to not involve strangulating levels of collar-tugging at all times. Little old lady got SWATTed late last night Werewolves of twitter again
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Apr 11, 2022 01:37
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Bogart posted:In fairness, I still weep whenever I consider the potato famine, so Fianna account spotted.
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Apr 11, 2022 02:25
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TheKingslayer posted:As much as I love the oWoD and the dread of ancient monsters sleeping in the dark places of the world, I've never liked Cain being 100% where vampires came from. I find the setting far more fun when the various clans/sects/whatever have their own version of where they came from whether it involves Cain or not. Like, The Followers of Set/The Ministry saying Set was actually the first vampire or at least equal to Cain is great because for all anyone knows they're just full of poo poo, but maybe they aren't. Caine as the ur-gently caress up is hilariously useful to explain why the world is such a shithole though. Like, VtR is more well built for a vague past where vampirism is just a natural result of the world being a weird and sometimes very hosed up place to live in. Also, i'll point out that technically if the writers were clever enough there could be no less than three origins for vampires in the setting. Technically 4 or 5 if they were willing to do the legwork. Caine, Lilith, and Eickos are all qualified to be progenitors within VTM's direct canon. The catch is that VtM only covers Cainite vampires and not Lilim vampires. Actually, the Lilim get a mention in the Gehenna book as an offhand thing the players can transform into if they play nice with Lilith's side of things. It also revealed the possibility in another part of the book that there's like 20-30 Ante's. So, uh, yeah. Lots of room there to say that one of them was self made or something. As for Eickos, or the Crone as she's known as, she would have been a nice lead in to the NWoD/CoD if Sweddrac and co hadn't hosed that up for everyone. Understanding her overall themes makes it clear she's either an OG Baali or possibly the creator of those nature oriented vamps that were somewhat druidic themed in the dark ages segment of the game. Of course they were later exterminated due to civilization encroaching on them and are basically an extinct bloodline in the modern version of the game. quote:The Lhiannan were a territorial, matriarchal and druidic Cainite bloodline who existed in the Dark Ages. Though they are believed to have been an offshoot of Clan Gangrel, they themselves did not believe they were descended from Caine at all, but instead believed they were made by the "Crone", a mysterious figure who may be the same Crone mentioned in the Book of Nod. quote:The Lhiannan were part nature spirit, and so had a unique connection to the world of spirits, most notably in the form of their Discipline Ogham; this connection gave them an inhuman aura obvious even to humans (and it was exceedingly easy for others to gauge their natures through the use of Auspex). Aside from that you have your magical hell escapee vampires that given their backstory, the Imbued's lore implications, and DtF's more obscure lore aspects are almost directly suggested to be the result of whatever (probably short lived, given the story beats associated with it if he makes the mistake of killing the UCS. All the Solars permanently ascend to full celestial-incarnae-SSJ2-hyper-Solar mode or whatever and get an intimacy of utter hatred towards the Ebon Dragon imprinted onto their minds. Hence why he had to break out again.) nightmarish apocalypse occurred in the Blessed Isle back when the Scarlet Empress got mindraped into letting the Ebon Dragon out of the depths of Malfeas's colon. Basically the equivalent of the biggest dickhead in the game dropping a curse on a huge chunk of the planet just to be as offensively bastardish as possible before he yet again reaped what he sowed. Alternatively, they're all that's left of the management of heaven and the Abrahamic god is real in the setting and just not a good being according to the standards it demands other people keep. Alternatively to that, when the Ebon Dragon broke out from his magical hell he laid a curse on everyone in one hemisphere while doing so. Hence why the Wan Kuei think of him as one of their progenitors. Which makes them hilariously wrong about his intentions. Which is...Uh, shockingly on point given their own habit of arrogantly blinding themselves to the truth. Which given the implications that the ministers of heaven were in kind of an influence war with each other (with the Ebon Dragon being the rear end in a top hat trying to make things terrible) means that the whole Wan Kuei thing is probably a long con to usher in the Sixth Age or something else. Which will of course probably backfire on the Ebon Dragon. Because being his own worst enemy is the prime narrative trait we have for him in the one game that goes into real honest detail about him that isn't colored by factional politics or cultural posturing. They could easily add in more spooky vampire types if they wanted too with their own origins. But then this would basically make the game VtR but with Abrahamic metaplot still dominating. So I understand why they haven't bothered. Archonex fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 03:48
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Archonex posted:As for Eickos, or the Crone as she's known as, she would have been a nice lead in to the NWoD/CoD if Sweddrac and co hadn't hosed that up for everyone. What happens when consensus reality is changed to just be 2e Awakening, and all of Ascension becomes a possible former state of the world just like the Atlantis myth could be? It would definitely be the fastest way to write an Ascension v5 and get rid of all the negative baggage of the Traditions and also give the game a spellcasting system that doesn’t need to be argued about. I really don’t want this to actually happen, but it would be the most hilarious retcon of all time.
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Apr 12, 2022 03:57
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Jhet posted:What happens when consensus reality is changed to just be 2e Awakening, and all of Ascension becomes a possible former state of the world just like the Atlantis myth could be? It would definitely be the fastest way to write an Ascension v5 and get rid of all the negative baggage of the Traditions and also give the game a spellcasting system that doesn’t need to be argued about. Presumably, the Technocracy loses it's poo poo as they realize their absurd end of history type leanings were wrong as gently caress and one of the Exarch's turns out to be some sort of hosed up Threat Null space cyborg amalgamation monstrosity to the utter confusion of every modern day Mage who thought they were fighting pre bronze age mage warlords gone supernal. Also, the Weaver would probably be the giant spider god that got offed via mutual kill by a certain gigantic mountain range sized wolf god not long after the start of that timeline of events. With no one left to give a poo poo since she was partially responsible for murdering an entire timeline worth of people by obsessively pursuing the ideal that nothing should ever change. Thereby kickstarting the whole CoD Werewolf/Forsaken game line. It'd definitely be a hilarious mind gently caress, at the very least. Bleak as gently caress too when you think about how that mind gently caress of a retcon would have to go in terms of the narrative to get there. Archonex fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 04:04
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Archonex, you could probably find a better term for what happens in the "Return of the Scarlet Empress" plot from 2E.Jhet posted:What happens when consensus reality is changed to just be 2e Awakening, and all of Ascension becomes a possible former state of the world just like the Atlantis myth could be? It would definitely be the fastest way to write an Ascension v5 and get rid of all the negative baggage of the Traditions and also give the game a spellcasting system that doesn’t need to be argued about. Remember, the original plan for Awakening was that there would be Traditionalists and Technocrats and they would be fighting, but this was only the outward manifestation of the true battle between the Pentacle and the Seers. The writers of M5 would just have to admit that this was true all along.
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Apr 12, 2022 05:07
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The assholish Primordials getting stuffed up Malfeas's metaphysical and not-so-metaphysical meat chute at the end of the war is about the funniest apt way to describe what happened and why Malfeas is basically a screaming rage monster in "modern" Exalted time periods and I will fight on this hill if I have to.  But to be serious, contentious opinions about Return of the Scarlet Empress aside it's easier to be humorously flippant about it than the lengthy explanation of how the Solar Exalted basically can become full fledged Solar Incarnae that were inferred to possibly end up being the foundation of a new pantheon (assuming a good ending) by dint of getting getting all sorts of insane powers. quote:This also kicks off hundreds of potential Moments of Awesome as the death of the Unconquered Sun gives every Solar Exalt an additional level of Essence, ten Charms of their choosing, an immediate Intimacy of vengeance toward the Ebon Dragon and full restoration of Essence, Willpower and health, resulting in 150 demigods whose Exaltations give them the power of supernatural perfection pursuing a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. And if that weren't enough, the Maidens of Fate can unlock greater astrological Charms in the case of an Incarna's death that can turn another person into the new Unconquered Sun. Archonex fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 05:15
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Archonex posted:The assholish Primordials getting stuffed up Malfeas's metaphysical and not-so-metaphysical meat chute at the end of the war is about the funniest apt way to describe what happened and why Malfeas is basically a screaming rage monster in "modern" Exalted time periods and I will fight on this hill if I have to. While I do wish you'd spare us your humorous flippancy, I mean the reference to sexual assault.
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Apr 12, 2022 05:22
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Ferrinus posted:While I do wish you'd spare us your humorous flippancy, I mean the reference to sexual assault. Well, i'm certain you can survive dealing with my humorous flippancy.  The thread can't always be dour and pedantic Magechat as an allegory for the downfall of capitalism and how no other theme is acceptable.As for me referencing sexual assault? None was referenced outside of things that literally canonically did happen and were deeply messed up. You'd have to take it to mean that by skewing my words to a different meaning however, which would be disingenuous of you. Especially if you're talking about the mind rape...Which in that case no sexual assault explicitly occurred as far as I recall. Torture meant to literally break the Scarlet Empress's will and mind did in fact happen, but details were scarce. Since you wanted a proper term, mindrape is literally the most apt term for it given what we're lead to believe the Ebon Dragon did. That is literally the reason why the Scarlet Empress let the Ebon Dragon in. He sucked her down into Exalted's verion of hell and tortured her until she broke mentally and let him into Creation to make it stop. This is canon, and one of the many reasons why the Ebon Dragon is basically the biggest bastard in the setting that deserved an rear end kicking many times over. Note that this is not the only time he did that either. That time he took away a circle's ability to dream in such a way that they went completely insane and had to be mercy killed also is a thing. So if you want to get mad at something get mad at the writers, not me for pointing out events that did occur. Archonex fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 05:33
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You could have just said that one character "tortured" another and left it there, as you did just now, but I guess then it wouldn't have had the same appeal.
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Apr 12, 2022 05:39
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Ferrinus posted:You could have just said that one character "tortured" another and left it there, as you did just now, but I guess then it wouldn't have had the same appeal. Oh, gently caress off with this nonsense. I've tried to be polite to you in the past when you get prickly about the WoD games but this is gross and way out of line.
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Apr 12, 2022 05:51
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Ferrinus's head is frequently up their rear end but there's nothing gross or out of line about saying "can we not casually bring up rape when describing a fictional scenario where a dragon pulls a woman down to hell."
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Apr 12, 2022 06:12
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I Am Just a Box posted:Ferrinus's head is frequently up their rear end but there's nothing gross or out of line about saying "can we not casually bring up rape when describing a fictional scenario where a dragon pulls a woman down to hell." And then he goes on to suggest that rape appeals to me which is just hosed up and him being a creep because someone dared to point out fallacies in his logic. There's him being his usual argumentative jerkish self, and then there's him crossing that line to accuse someone of liking rape in a fit of creepy dickishness when someone tries to explain why the term probably fit the situation given how messed up the whole thing was. If he wanted it to be about not using the word entirely then that was fine. But then after I tried to explain the situation (despite the fact that it's difficult to talk to someone who as you put it frequently has their head thoroughly up their own rear end) he goes and tries to take low blows by twisting words. Disingenuous and aggressive poo poo like this is why i've seen posters in the VTMB2 thread say that it's a mistake to so much as post in this thread. Archonex fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 06:29
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I'm not twisting anyone's words. I'm just accusing you of throwing an offensive term around for the sake of being lurid. I do this because of the breathlessly flippant tone of the rest of your posts and because you decided to double down on your usage for spurious reasons. If you want to take this as an excuse to stop posting entirely then you can be my guest.
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Apr 12, 2022 06:38
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Jhet posted:also give the game a spellcasting system that doesn’t need to be argued about. What would this look like? I figured this was a consequence of having a freeform magic system. I play Nobilis whenever I can talk anyone into it, and we have to hold another symposium every session or so. "What does it mean to unmake an absence?" "Does it count as a Minor Destruction if the exploded planet isn't very important to anybody?"
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Apr 12, 2022 06:44
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Ferrinus posted:I'm not twisting anyone's words. I'm just accusing you of throwing an offensive term around for the sake of being lurid. I do this because of the breathlessly flippant tone of the rest of your posts and because you decided to double down on your usage for spurious reasons. If you want to take this as an excuse to stop posting entirely then you can be my guest. Yes you are twisting words. That is exactly the nature of the thing you are doing here. You are pretending the (heavily used and accepted as shorthand term; to the point where it's a literal trope recorded on major websites tracking it in global media, used as a word itself in various modern media and hell even in the title of songs, is an integral part of an entire genre of lovecraftian horror, and generally is shorthand for an explicitly fictional horrific act of violation) usage of a fictional terminology for eldritch horrors invading one's mind to destroy it is akin to the very real and very much vile act of rape itself, which has real world victims. Then you are pretending as if you are so very aghast at the usage of this word that you just have to be a contrarian creep and get the last word in while inferring I was a fan of rape. Twisting words and being a two faced dick about it is the actual literal summation of what it is you are doing, since you didn't just drop it there and then escalated further after I explained what was going on and was willing to drop it there. I'm not going to give a creepy rear end in a top hat like you the satisfaction of not posting in this thread any more. But I am damned well ignoring anything you post from here on out since it's pretty obvious you are shifty as heck and are here more to pick a fight than you are to talk about the setting of these games. Ragnar34 posted:What would this look like? I figured this was a consequence of having a freeform magic system. I play Nobilis whenever I can talk anyone into it, and we have to hold another symposium every session or so. "What does it mean to unmake an absence?" "Does it count as a Minor Destruction if the exploded planet isn't very important to anybody?" I'm not too familiar with Nobilis, but blowing up an empty planet doesn't seem like a Minor Destruction. Though i'm getting game specific con-slang vibes from the capitalization on those two words, so maybe it has a meaning within the rules of the game? Regardless, when dealing with freeform systems that enable large scale actions like that talking things out is always a good idea, yeah. Explanations can help resolve any issues the gaming group might have. Ditto for setting boundaries. Though, that's kind of an integral part of any game with potential dark themes. And from a brief google of Nobilis it seems like it can potentially get pretty dark. Something that doesn't enable arguing about it as much would have to have harder rules about the nature of the systems underlying the game. Spheres would probably have to go as a freeform system, with explicit spells that people can do as the baseline instead. A good example of this would probably actually be the Black and White Treatise books for Exalted 2e, as while it was a point that freeform style workings are a thing that Exalt's do (basically saying to homebrew your own) there was just a huge selection of spells to choose from learning as examples of what sort of things were doable in general. Unfortunately, that itself can have issues. Since you can end up with extreme internal balance issues where one archetype of spell casting is more powerful than the other instead of many of the balance issues being externalized by just having one splat being overpowered as heck due to their more freeform nature. Ditto for issues of creativity coming up on the part of the playerbase. Since without clear and decisive explanations as to theme if there are gaps in the doability of things that should be there people can end up struggling to fill them in themselves depending on their availability of information, creativity, and time. TL;DR: That methodology could end up being expensive and time consuming on the part of both the devs and the consumers to do. Archonex fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 06:59
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Archonex posted:Yes you are twisting words. That is exactly the nature of the thing you are doing here. You are pretending the (heavily used and accepted as shorthand term; to the point where it's a literal trope recorded on major websites tracking it in global media, used as a word itself in various modern media and hell even in the title of songs, and literally the topic an entire genre of lovecraftian horror, and generally is shorthand for an explicitly fictional horrific act of violation) usage of a fictional terminology for eldritch horrors invading one's mind to destroy it is akin to the very real and very much vile act of rape itself, which has real world victims. Then you are pretending as if you are so very aghast at the usage of this word that you just have to be a contrarian creep and get the last word in while inferring I was a fan of rape. Twisting words and being a two faced dick about it is the actual literal summation of what it is you are doing, since you didn't just drop it there and then escalated further after I explained what was going on and was willing to drop it there. Alright, so generally I think what you've been writing has been in poor taste and I haven't actually been quoting you because I figured you could edit like one word in one post and then this thread would be slightly more comfortable to read for everyone. I'm not trying to save screenshots to cancel you with or whatever. But since this language is extremely important to you, let's take a look at your words, which I am purportedly twisting. Archonex posted:As for me referencing sexual assault? None was referenced outside of things that literally canonically did happen and were deeply messed up. You'd have to take it to mean that by skewing my words to a different meaning however, which would be disingenuous of you. Especially if you're talking about the mind rape...Which in that case no sexual assault explicitly occurred as far as I recall. Torture meant to literally break the Scarlet Empress's will and mind did in fact happen, but details were scarce. Since you wanted a proper term, mindrape is literally the most apt term for it given what we're lead to believe the Ebon Dragon did. In your own words: No sexual assault explicitly occurred. Details were scarce. ..."mindrape" is literally the most apt term? It's the most apt term for something lacking any explicit sexual assault and in which details were scarce? Why is it a more apt term than, say, "torture"? Or "indoctrination"? Or "brainwashing"? Is it because the victim is a woman? In the 1e Dragon-Blooded book, there's a fairly lurid scene of a woman who's presumably the Empress being held in Malfeas and pretty obviously being sexually assaulted. In Demon: the Fallen, my favorite oWoD game, the "Earthbound" antagonists can get dots in the Lore of Violation, whose two-dot power is literally called "Mind Rape". In Exalted 2E, a central element of the Infernal Exaltation is an NPC named Lilun, who readers of Fatal & Friends may be familiar with. I'm not stupid enough to actually read late-stage Exalted 2E material, so I don't know how explicit the Return of the Empress books actually get (though according to you, the answer is "not very"), but, obviously, both literal and figurative sexual assault figures pretty heavily in at least the peripheries of older White Wolf tabletop RPG material, so if you're going to die on the hill of describing one character's domination of another specifically as a form of rape, well, you may well successfully defend that hill from enemy forces in so doing. But, I don't think you should do that, especially not in the same breath as you're telling us that Kejak needs drinkie because he's had a cromulent fuckcrustable of a day. I think doing so is a cheap and tasteless tactic to build heat. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 07:12
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Ferrinus posted:While I do wish you'd spare us your humorous flippancy, I mean the reference to sexual assault. Archonex posted:The thread can't always be dour and pedantic Magechat as an allegory for the downfall of capitalism and how no other theme is acceptable. Will the two of you please knock it off. I'm sure there was a point that might have been worth talking about somewhere at the bottom of all this, but at this stage you're just talking past each other and making GBS threads up the thread for everybody else. Please stop. I Am Just a Box posted:Ferrinus's head is frequently up their rear end but there's nothing gross or out of line about saying "can we not casually bring up rape when describing a fictional scenario where a dragon pulls a woman down to hell." This feels like a good summation, yeah. I am aware that the whole Ebon Dragon thing heavily implies the Scarlet Empress is raped. If the precise details of whether or not that happened are that loving important to the point you're making, maybe step back and reconsider your life choices.
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Apr 12, 2022 14:07
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Archonex posted:I'm not too familiar with Nobilis, but blowing up an empty planet doesn't seem like a Minor Destruction. Though i'm getting game specific con-slang vibes from the capitalization on those two words, so maybe it has a meaning within the rules of the game? Nobles are people with one of the conceptual building blocks of reality embedded in their soul. It's less like an Exalted deciding to blow up a planet and more like an Exarch deciding to blow up a planet. Now, granted, it's still probably Major Destruction and not Minor because you're supposed to bump it up for large scale actions, but it's always a GM judgment call and all it really means is an appropriately statted character can do it twice before breakfast instead of an indefinite number of times.
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Apr 12, 2022 14:56
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Exalted's plot was so dumb.
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Apr 12, 2022 15:48
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Fuzz posted:Exalted's plot was so dumb.
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Apr 12, 2022 15:51
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Nobles are people with one of the conceptual building blocks of reality embedded in their soul. It's less like an Exalted deciding to blow up a planet and more like an Exarch deciding to blow up a planet. And to show the process for the person who asked it, in 2e Awakening, it would be pretty quick. How do you want to blow the thing up? Make the pieces just explode outward? Could be Forces or Matter. Moving dirt with matter would be ruling, 2 dots. Forces would be needing some sort of energy to move all that dirt, so it’s probably going to at least be a Weaving spell (3 dots), but you could go bigger and make the energy to blow it apart, and we can just base it off the Earthquake spell they stuck in the book. So that’s Making at (5 dots). Lots of ways to solve that one with different levels of activity by the spell. (There’s also the comedy terrible option that everyone has encountered of the forces A-bomb which is a combined Forces making & ruling spell and almost certain a problem with wisdom). Big problem though, you could only affect an area of spell as large as you can control. And until you’re an Archmage you’re capped on area to a small neighborhood and that’s going to be a tough spell to cast. You’ll need to find that Golden Road and walk it, or you can try to find the spirit that rules the thing you’re trying to destroy and see what happens when you face it. And it can just keep going and going into crazier spells and actions until the players are even “whoa, that might kill like a bunch of people”. And then something would get cast and we’d move forward in the story and deal with consequences. Which is why I like Awakening much better than most other freeform casting games. Sure, you’re going to discuss magic and how it fits in the practices, but you can have plenty of options for it. The goal isn’t to stagnate magic use, it gives you the steps to make that magic use easy to manage between the player and the character. And sometimes you won’t be able to do exactly the thing you had it mind, but I bet you’ll be able to do something similar or less powerful to still get you casting something. Which is the opposite of most Ascension game time I’ve had which is usually more that argument about magic in the “can you do something” rather than Awakening version of “how do you do something”. How this would theoretically be smashed together with Ascension was a joke.
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Apr 12, 2022 15:55
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As someone who only has a passing knowledge of the lore of oWod, i have to wonder how important is to mantain the timeline continuity with the old version, if the fundamentals have changed so drastically. Why not go for a full-scale reboot, with the old setting actually brought up to date with contemporary sensibilities, instead of trying to fit more and more radical changes in a incongruous continuity? I'm not talking about doing a new version of owod to nwod, as they are completely different things, but more as a new beginning, a bit like the endless comic reboots make a new universe out of the same characters, plots and places.
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Apr 12, 2022 16:36
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Kefahuchi_son!!! posted:As someone who only has a passing knowledge of the lore of oWod, i have to wonder how important is to mantain the timeline continuity with the old version, if the fundamentals have changed so drastically. Alienates old fans, but V5 basically already does this in many ways. It's the easiest version to just ignore all the bullshit from previous editions and do something fresh and it's fine, if not playing the game exactly as it is meant to be played.
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Apr 12, 2022 17:20
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Kefahuchi_son!!! posted:As someone who only has a passing knowledge of the lore of oWod, i have to wonder how important is to mantain the timeline continuity with the old version, if the fundamentals have changed so drastically. that's basically what the nWoD is. it's pretty good! it also damaged the brand and alienated many of the old fans who are still mad about it and who, to a greater or lesser extent, have been in charge of the oWoD for the past couple of years lol
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Apr 12, 2022 17:24
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Fuzz posted:Alienates old fans, but V5 basically already does this in many ways. It's the easiest version to just ignore all the bullshit from previous editions and do something fresh and it's fine, if not playing the game exactly as it is meant to be played. I mean they do give rule 0 in the core and Achille said on Twitter a while back to use whatever bits of lore you want in your games, so it seems like "The Metaplot" is still there if you want it or you can ignore most of it and do whatever. The game I'm running I've kept bits of plot I liked and replaced others that I didn't, especially since my game is set in SF, I just dumped the entire KOTE poo poo and made up a mid-00's Sabbat war to fill in that space, which gave me a nice plot thread of the threat of the Sabbat returning that we're currently focused on.
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Apr 12, 2022 18:29
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Old Changeling to New Changeling has to be a pretty goddamn lol change given what amounts to a drastic 180 in tone and themes.
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Apr 12, 2022 18:37
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Kefahuchi_son!!! posted:As someone who only has a passing knowledge of the lore of oWod, i have to wonder how important is to mantain the timeline continuity with the old version, if the fundamentals have changed so drastically. I've been saying this. V5 tries to change a lot of things without actually going full reboot because it was originally helmed by someone who hated the nWoD and didn't want to do a new nWoD. I'm guessing V5 Revised might be real good, I dunno. All these recent talks have got me to re-read the core V5 pdf I have and it rbought back all the stuff I dislike about it as well as the stuff I actually like.
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Apr 12, 2022 18:49
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I think you have to ask yourself what you're keeping if you're rebooting it, and if that solves the problems that "contemporary sensibilities" would be attempting to go for. Are you changing the setting conceits themselves, beyond just "metaplot"? Gonna be a hard sell to convince me that you aren't making a new game entirely, especially if the downstream impact to the mechanics leads to fundamental changes to address the problems inherent with the groups in the games (not that that's a bad thing with some of these). Are you changing the groups themselves? What are you changing? Because a chunk of the vampire clans, most-if-not-all-of the mage traditions, probably every single one of the werewolf tribes, and between 1/3 and "all of" oChangeling would need to be changed as to be nearly unrecognizable compared to their existing forms as written. At which point, you're just keeping names. So really: What do you want to keep? And how much of it, if you take a long look, boils down to "I want the stuff I read when I first encountered these books, but without having to think about why the Roma clan having a Thieving Frenzy is bad or how the werewolf tribe named after the some-people-in-the-cultures-that-came-up-with-the-term-say-you-shouldn't-say-it myth also can't start with dots in Resources" ?
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Apr 12, 2022 19:02
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MonsieurChoc posted:I'm guessing V5 Revised might be real good, I dunno. All these recent talks have got me to re-read the core V5 pdf I have and it rbought back all the stuff I dislike about it as well as the stuff I actually like. Make sure you redownload it, they incorporated a bunch of edits and errata rules into the main PDF in 2019. DTRPG is updated to the current, though apparently the French and German Cows just got an update this past week and it's possible the English will, as well. They do rolling updates of the PDFs. The core system hasn't changed, so if you hate that then you're still gonna hate it.
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Apr 12, 2022 19:06
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