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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:and a "young" (or at least before he'd gotten bigger) sam rockwell and both justin long's and rain wilson's first film roles it wasn't my demographic but Last Man Standing was apparently pretty successful
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Apr 11, 2022 19:06
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i say swears online posted:it wasn't my demographic but Last Man Standing was apparently pretty successful oh yeah good call, but he hasn't really been in a big non-toy story movie since wild hogs. not mourning the loss or anything tho, and reviewing his filmography i guess he wasn't in as many hits as i thought
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Apr 11, 2022 19:09
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:and a "young" (or at least before he'd gotten bigger) sam rockwell and both justin long's and rain wilson's first film roles Yea well said, Allen was good in that role b/c you also kinda resent him as a viewer just like his disgruntled castmates but he wins us all over in the end.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:11
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Karl Marx was ironically anti-Semitic (given his background) and racist both in the “calling people the N word” sense and in the “creates an orientalist mode of production to describe the inscrutable asiatic” sense. Communism is canceled.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:24
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Karl Marx was totally befuddled by Asian people
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Apr 11, 2022 19:25
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karl "hard r" marx
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Apr 11, 2022 19:26
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olives black posted:To me it just means I get to enjoy things twice - once with my brain on Power-Save mode (if not completely off), the second time with a critic's scalpel. Throwing it all out just wastes time and feels bad, it's not helping any kind of revolution would be true if there weren't more than enough good poo poo to consume instead of doing whatever this routine is
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Apr 11, 2022 19:35
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Marx literally didn't understand Asian people, like as a concept, which is a really loving hilarious form of racism.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:39
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tbf Marx was basically correct about all the political issues even if he was a weirdo/rear end in a top hat about it, afaict
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Apr 11, 2022 19:43
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StashAugustine posted:tbf Marx was basically correct about all the political issues even if he was a weirdo/rear end in a top hat about it, afaict why bother with Karl Marx when so many writers about dialectical materialism aren’t weirdos or assholes? surely others must have made the same points without being total jerkwads.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:49
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sexpig by night posted:Marx literally didn't understand Asian people, like as a concept, which is a really loving hilarious form of racism. if only he had access to kpop, martial arts movies, and anime like me, then he would understand Marx would stan Brave Girls. A group so enveloped in the disassociation of capital that they take their name not from some ideal or dream, but from Brave Brother himself, who created the group. A group which, despite this disassociation from their very identity, would work hard for a few years, but never see much success. A group which, shortly before being dissolved, would be saved by the disassociation of society reaching a psychic wavelength upon which their three year old song would begin to resonate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Axm4IYHVYk Marx would be doing the Stingray dance on the cover of the Communist Manifesto, if only he had been born a few years later.
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Apr 11, 2022 19:50
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AnimeIsTrash posted:karl "hard r" marx Marx Hardcore?
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Apr 11, 2022 19:51
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mawarannahr posted:why bother with Karl Marx when so many writers about dialectical materialism aren’t weirdos or assholes? surely others must have made the same points without being total jerkwads. 
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Apr 11, 2022 19:57
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new david lynch film forthcoming? with laura dern? PLEASE be true! i would cry https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1513566013090107396
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Apr 11, 2022 20:09
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sexpig by night posted:Marx literally didn't understand Asian people, like as a concept, which is a really loving hilarious form of racism. Just like the movie Rising Sun!
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Apr 11, 2022 20:10
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Lynch Cronenburg Lighthear
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Apr 11, 2022 20:13
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i wasn't interested in seeing the Buzz Lightyear movie before, but now that I know David Lynch is directing it - I'm REALLY not interested!!!
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Apr 11, 2022 20:15
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East Asia having it's own distinct class structure and economic base was also the conclusion of 20th century East Asian communists.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:16
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in what way does that play out how is owning a factory different in 1880 london than 1880 shanghai
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Apr 11, 2022 20:16
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empty whippet box posted:The problem is that treating Asimov's work with the reverence they've always been given does a disservice to women especially because their portrayal in his works may then be formative for someone's views with regards to women in science or wherever else. His portrayals of women were awful, too, in a way consistent with his behavior in the real world. same with pretty much every sci-fi writer until recently there was an incel revolt when things like the nebula and hugo awards started showcasing female, minority, and foreign viewpoints instead of sticking to escapist space imperialism and slave girls Terrible Opinions posted:If it's a fan of scifi then this can mostly be tracked back to one particular guy. John Campbell who was the editor of Astounding Science Fiction for over 30 years and controlled what content was allowed in the magazine. As Astounding was the one of the main places scifi authors of the time got their break it meant he was able to steer the direction of the genre to match his politics. Which incidentally were extremely racist and sexist. No female or black protagonists, all aliens had to be monsters or primitives, and similar dreck. oh cool, good to know
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Apr 11, 2022 20:20
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loquacius posted:Personally I'm reading Discworld for the first time (yes, in my thirties) and am pleasantly surprised at the ones I've read being unironically good books rather than just vehicles for genre jokes. I'd heard it compared to Hitchhiker's Guide before but Pratchett could write circles around Adams. The most interesting Pratchett character politically is probably Vetinari, in that he's a straight-up dictator who doesn't really give a lick about what individual people want, but believes that the most important things for a society are a combination of stability and progress and because of this is generally portrayed in a positive light. On top of that he's hypercompetent in terms of both as an administrator and a former professional assassin, and is anti-monarch in the sense that other Patricians have used the "Lord" title and they have universally been presented as being Very Bad. I haven't read his stuff since college so I'm not going to try to guess what this says about Pratchett's own politics, but it probably says something.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:20
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do pixar movies usually open at cannes
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Apr 11, 2022 20:23
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Big Mad Drongo posted:The most interesting Pratchett character politically is probably Vetinari, in that he's a straight-up dictator who doesn't really give a lick about what individual people want, but believes that the most important things for a society are a combination of stability and progress and because of this is generally portrayed in a positive light. On top of that he's hypercompetent in terms of both as an administrator and a former professional assassin, and is anti-monarch in the sense that other Patricians have used the "Lord" title and they have universally been presented as being Very Bad. I haven't read his stuff since college so I'm not going to try to guess what this says about Pratchett's own politics, but it probably says something. he was a Stalinist
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Apr 11, 2022 20:25
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i say swears online posted:in what way does that play out I think the biggest difference between Marxism-Leninism and Maoism is that one discounts the rural peasantry as a revolutionary force while the other is based around them to the near-exclusion of the urban proletariat, or at least that was how it was taught to me Big Mad Drongo posted:The most interesting Pratchett character politically is probably Vetinari, in that he's a straight-up dictator who doesn't really give a lick about what individual people want, but believes that the most important things for a society are a combination of stability and progress and because of this is generally portrayed in a positive light. On top of that he's hypercompetent in terms of both as an administrator and a former professional assassin, and is anti-monarch in the sense that other Patricians have used the "Lord" title and they have universally been presented as being Very Bad. I haven't read his stuff since college so I'm not going to try to guess what this says about Pratchett's own politics, but it probably says something. I'm still not really sure what my judgment is on Vetinari tbh -- on the one hand, his guild system seems kind of oddly anarcho-capitalist, but on the other hand, he did basically abolish the police My anti-monarchist reading is mostly based around Vimes. In Guards! Guards! he observes the general citizenry reacting to the coronation of a king with patriotic fervor, and this line comes up: quote:Very gently, shaking his head in despair, crying in his heart for the essential servility of mankind, Vimes let him go. Also I haven't seen the story explicitly told yet, but it's been heavily implied that the last king of Ankh-Morpork was deposed because he was a pedophile, and a bunch of the previous ones had titles like "King such-and-such the Despotic" and so forth
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Apr 11, 2022 20:29
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Big Mad Drongo posted:The most interesting Pratchett character politically is probably Vetinari, in that he's a straight-up dictator who doesn't really give a lick about what individual people want, but believes that the most important things for a society are a combination of stability and progress and because of this is generally portrayed in a positive light. On top of that he's hypercompetent in terms of both as an administrator and a former professional assassin, and is anti-monarch in the sense that other Patricians have used the "Lord" title and they have universally been presented as being Very Bad. I haven't read his stuff since college so I'm not going to try to guess what this says about Pratchett's own politics, but it probably says something. Vetinari seems like the embodiment of that liberal fantasy to live under the boot of a right-wing big strong technocrat manly man who you don't like personally, but he makes the trains run on time! And most importantly he upholds decorum.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:30
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i say swears online posted:in what way does that play out Chinese national bourgeoisie existed in the context of imperialism which put them in conflict with the London based international bourgeoisie, which is why the former was part of Mao's New Democracy formulation. But really, in 1880 there weren't many factory owners in Shanghai. The middle class was mostly scholar-bureaucrats, a class that didn't really exist in western pre capitalist economies. Not in the same way.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:30
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still probably the best DS9 episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzgtCwAnf8
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Apr 11, 2022 20:32
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galagazombie posted:Vetinari seems like the embodiment of that liberal fantasy to live under the boot of a right-wing big strong technocrat manly man who you don't like personally, but he makes the trains run on time! And most importantly he upholds decorum. decorum is not high on vetinari's priorities. vetinari cares about results, which is why the majority of his interactions involve pissing people off or putting people into messy situations and trusting that they'll unfuck it for him. vetinari is less of a character and more of a deus ex machina with some endearing decorations.
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Apr 11, 2022 20:35
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Vetinari is definitely not left-wing because he doesn't really DO very much and his entire system is based around the self-interest of others The most powerful entities in Ankh-Morpork are the guilds, which, on the one hand, are guilds rather than corporations, but, on the other hand, are still private entities which act in their own best interests The thing is, I don't think Ankh-Morpork is supposed to be depicted as, like, a good system. It's not a dystopia but I don't think you're supposed to come away from the book wishing you lived there or anything
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Apr 11, 2022 20:38
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the biggest problem with pratchett is that he's a firm believer in "if the right people control the levers of power, everything will work out in the end" bad leaders in the city and guilds get exposed, they get removed, things improve slightly, and the world modernizes a bit. a new crisis happens because of the modernization, old leaders who don't change with the times are removed and replaced by a person or system that does work, things improve slightly, the world modernizes a bit more, and so on. he absolutely acknowledges that the right person is a function of both time and place, but he still needs the right person in the end
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Apr 11, 2022 20:49
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Oh, one more thing: I'm on my second Discworld book, and so far 2 out of 2 evil plans have had the re-institution of the monarchy as their primary goal. I think it's safe to say Pratchett loving hates monarchism, and reactionaries I don't think he's a socialist, probably left-liberal, Warrenite most likely, but as people have mentioned, as far as successful fantasy/sci-fi writers from the 20th century go that's pretty good e: the two British authors I've read the most from this year are Pratchett and Abercrombie, and Abercrombie strikes me as Blairite at best, and Pratchett was born way earlier than him, so I'm honestly just thrilled that Pratchett is politically inoffensive loquacius has issued a correction as of 20:58 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 20:55
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Oh yeah Pratchett is some variety of liberal, but he came from a time when you could write something close to YA fiction without declaring political allegiance on Twitter so it's pretty mushy, politically speaking.loquacius posted:Vetinari is definitely not left-wing because he doesn't really DO very much and his entire system is based around the self-interest of others The thing here is it isn't portrayed as the worst system either. None of the other countries are depicted as being any better. Now that I'm thinking about it for the first time in years I'm starting to get "It ain't perfect but it's the best we got!" vibes, though I'd need to do a reread before I commit to that take. redneck nazgul posted:decorum is not high on vetinari's priorities. vetinari cares about results, which is why the majority of his interactions involve pissing people off or putting people into messy situations and trusting that they'll unfuck it for him.  loquacius posted:Oh, one more thing: I'm on my second Discworld book, and so far 2 out of 2 evil plans have had the re-institution of the monarchy as their primary goal. I think it's safe to say Pratchett loving hates monarchism, and reactionaries Ultimately Pratchett seemed to vaguely follow some strain of Humanism with his viewpoint shaped by being a well-off liberal, which as a fantasy author basically makes him as left as they come Big Mad Drongo has issued a correction as of 21:01 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 20:59
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if nothing else, pratchett was a huge believer in the overall goodness of people. there's only a few characters who are 100% unredeemable and monstrous, and pratchett doesn't linger on them: he introduces them, touches very briefly on why they're abominations, and gets rid of them unceremoniously. compare in Night Watch: how he deals with carcer versus how he deals with the office on Cable Street
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Apr 11, 2022 21:02
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The one actual radical character I've come across so far is Big Fido, a dog who is leading a small-scale rebellion against humans, and he is one of those briefly-depicted irredeemable characters, but he isn't handled in a way that makes me think he's an allegory for any particular human political movement; he's a dog and he resents humans for making him a dog and wants to be a wolf instead and that's it
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Apr 11, 2022 21:09
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Is Le Guin the leftmost fantasy writer? At least of the ones that are famous and from the west.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:14
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loquacius posted:Oh, one more thing: I'm on my second Discworld book, and so far 2 out of 2 evil plans have had the re-institution of the monarchy as their primary goal. I think it's safe to say Pratchett loving hates monarchism, and reactionaries his attitudes changed throughout his life and career, particularly towards women. early portrayals of women in his books are markedly different from later ones, which are in my opinion are much better.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:16
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Mantis42 posted:Is Le Guin the leftmost fantasy writer? At least of the ones that are famous and from the west. I distinctly recall people being super disappointed with N.K. Jemisin during this last cycle, but at the time I hadn't read any of her stuff and wasn't paying super close attention In retrospect it makes sense she'd end up as a radlib, though; having now read Broken Earth she's strongly antiracist but doesn't seem to particularly care about class, or the abuses of the powerful in many ways beyond their capability to be racist (Broken Earth is still good and I'd still recommend it though) loquacius has issued a correction as of 21:20 on Apr 11, 2022 |
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Apr 11, 2022 21:17
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empty whippet box posted:his attitudes changed throughout his life and career, particularly towards women. early portrayals of women in his books are markedly different from later ones, which are in my opinion are much better. A lot of male genre-fic authors are like this. You can watch it happen in real-time sometimes: book 1 comes out and has no good female characters, and someone gives him this feedback and he wants to do better, so book 2 has at least one woman in it but he's not very good at writing her, and maybe over time he gets the hang of it and maybe not Abercrombie is a great example while we're on the subject
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Apr 11, 2022 21:19
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redneck nazgul posted:if nothing else, pratchett was a huge believer in the overall goodness of people. there's only a few characters who are 100% unredeemable and monstrous, and pratchett doesn't linger on them: he introduces them, touches very briefly on why they're abominations, and gets rid of them unceremoniously. Yea, Pratchett likely was more of a lib than a literal communist sort but he at the very least clearly had a core belief in the innate goodness of humanity and a disdain for those who treated others as lesser beings. Like, he is the guy who wrote a whole arc where a typical fantasy character saw 'the goblin's head pub' which featured a literal taxidermized goblin's head as a central feature, and the moral end to that book (which in itself used Goblins as a stand in for general enslaved/oppressed people and the overall story was about making them equal citizens) was beating up the ex-cop who runs that pub until he changes the name and removes the head. I think it's fair to say he probably believed in solidarity and unity as pretty core human values.
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Apr 11, 2022 21:21
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On the topic of leftist fantasy/sci fi Mieville published of books he thought every socialist should read a while back. I haven't read everything on it but what I have has been really good. https://theweeklyansible.tumblr.com/post/20777236577/50-sci-fi-fantasy-works-every-socialist-should
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Apr 11, 2022 21:24
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