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It seems like every animated Toei show is coming back that day as well so looks like they finally got things sorted out and hopefully there will be no more interruptions from here on. Speaking of, do we know how long Ghost Game is going to run for as of yet (I remember Colon’s full episode count being revealed fairly early on)?
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Apr 6, 2022 16:13
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Hot take, but I’ll only accept Raidramon going back to Lighdramon if it means the booster set after the Xros Connection one is Appmon themed and they’re prepping for a future appmon Raidramon card. Just create a universal baby and baby II for all appmon and retcon the grades as levels. Treat the Appmon as a subspecies that’s compatible with regular mons. This way Appmon stuff can move forward with the rest of the franchise because I don’t see them ever being used again otherwise, which would be a shame.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:16
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, do we know how long Ghost Game is going to run for as of yet (I remember Colon’s full episode count being revealed fairly early on)? We don't know. Adventure:'s episode count being revealed from the start (even if it ultimately was wrong, it was one episode longer) was an anomaly I believe. Sleeping Sigma posted:Hot take, but I’ll only accept Raidramon going back to Lighdramon if it means the booster set after the Xros Connection one is Appmon themed and they’re prepping for a future appmon Raidramon card. Just create a universal baby and baby II for all appmon and retcon the grades as levels. Treat the Appmon as a subspecies that’s compatible with regular mons. I don't think the first point is needed. They can use any babies, it's Digimon, evolution lines aren't consistent and anything can become anything. Turning the Grades to Levels and adding Attributes are the only two things you'd need to do, and thankfully the Grades are basically perfectly aligned to normal Digimon Levels anyways. If anything, Armors and Spirits clash way harder due to their unique(ly random) power levels, while Appmon work just fine with the Child to Mega lines.
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Apr 6, 2022 16:22
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They aren't even consistently uniquely random. Beast Spirit's Perfect on the vital bracelet but Champion in the card game. Fused spirits seem to have consistently settled at Perfect, though, which is a shocker because I could've sworn they were Mega-tier for a while.
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Apr 6, 2022 17:06
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Nah, Alda and Beowulf got completely crushed by Cherubimon, so they couldn't be Megas. Aldamon beating Black Seraphimon was a bit of a cheat, but he was a Human Spirit using the power of a Mega, so you could split the difference. Also Beowulf had a lot of trouble beating Velgrmon and ended up needing Takuyas help, despite Velgrmon being a Beast Spirit. Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Apr 6, 2022 17:21
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Blaze Dragon posted:I don't think the first point is needed. They can use any babies, it's Digimon, evolution lines aren't consistent and anything can become anything. That’s fair. I just wasn’t sure how hard a hypothetical retcon would go in regards to integration since they’ve talked before about wanting to make more “natural” lines.
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Apr 6, 2022 18:24
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Some Numbers posted:Nah, Alda and Beowulf got completely crushed by Cherubimon, so they couldn't be Megas. Honestly that always felt less like an issue of power and more just the Frontier kids being the textbook definition of incompetent
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Apr 6, 2022 22:33
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Some Numbers posted:Nah, Alda and Beowulf got completely crushed by Cherubimon, so they couldn't be Megas. I don't think this particularly matters as a comparison because Frontier didn't have a level system. It had Digimon evolve, but it never actually specified levels and the MotWs would be of entirely random levels and keep a power curve that made sense for the series. The very first enemy they fight is a Perfect-level (Cerberumon) which Agnimon beats with no issues, but then Raremon is a bigger fight despite being an Adult, and so on. Levels don't exist in Frontier, just as they don't exist in Xros Wars.
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Apr 7, 2022 00:03
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The only real problem Hybrids had before was the difficulty of fitting them in alongside conventional levels, but since the Digimon X v-pet they seem to have settled on the approach that they do whatever's best suited to fit them into the format. The Beasts being Perfect-tier in the DiM cards makes sense from the perspective of including a mixture of Hybrid and regular Digimon at each level, the Humans being Child-tier in the recent other v-pets lets them fit the whole Flame/Light lines in directly, and both being Lv.4 in the card game fits best from a gameplay point of view. That leaves plenty of space to make it easier to fit them into video games and the like, and Pegasmon in Adventure: sets a prominent precedent for just ignoring when a Digimon's level is awkward for lore.
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Apr 7, 2022 00:28
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1st Stage Midboss posted:The only real problem Hybrids had before was the difficulty of fitting them in alongside conventional levels, but since the Digimon X v-pet they seem to have settled on the approach that they do whatever's best suited to fit them into the format. The Beasts being Perfect-tier in the DiM cards makes sense from the perspective of including a mixture of Hybrid and regular Digimon at each level, the Humans being Child-tier in the recent other v-pets lets them fit the whole Flame/Light lines in directly, and both being Lv.4 in the card game fits best from a gameplay point of view. That leaves plenty of space to make it easier to fit them into video games and the like, and Pegasmon in Adventure: sets a prominent precedent for just ignoring when a Digimon's level is awkward for lore. At this point I agree. I've learned to stop worrying and love the flexible power scaling. Especially when even from the beginning you've had mons like Whamon and Minotarumon that just show up at different levels for little to know reason.
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Apr 7, 2022 00:40
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The Bee posted:At this point I agree. I've learned to stop worrying and love the flexible power scaling. Especially when even from the beginning you've had mons like Whamon and Minotarumon that just show up at different levels for little to know reason. Whamon is actually consistent. Adult and Perfect Whamon are different Digimon, with different Digimon Reference Book entries. All the rest are just inconsistent though. Probably the worst is Magnamon who is whatever the hell they want at the time.
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Apr 7, 2022 01:02
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Kortel posted:I know it's not meta but I am totally looking forward to Digital Hazard. D Reaper deck looks hilarious. You say that, but D-Reaper actually made some decent showings competitively. It was anything but a joke deck. The Bee posted:I wonder if on reprints they'll change the Frontier mistranslations and Dorugreymon. I figured BurningGreymon would've been off limits as a protagonist evo, but now Lighdramon is challenging that claim. The funny thing is that they never bothered to write exceptions for Garmmon not being a Garurumon and all the cards that reference Garurumon Digimon, they just have a little note on the website and the rulings that say "this is not actually a Garurumon". And I would really love if they finally just gave up and started calling them Garmmon and Vritramon already. Bonus points if they re-translate all the other hybrids accurately, I mean they already started kind of with Kaiser Leomon and maybe that's because Leomon is a relevant name, but so is Greymon and Garurumon and you'd think someone somewhere would just dump the initial dub names into the same pile as "Augumon" and "Laylamon". Sleeping Sigma posted:Hot take, but I’ll only accept Raidramon going back to Lighdramon if it means the booster set after the Xros Connection one is Appmon themed and they’re prepping for a future appmon Raidramon card. Just create a universal baby and baby II for all appmon and retcon the grades as levels. Treat the Appmon as a subspecies that’s compatible with regular mons. As it stands the card game is basically perfectly suited to include Appmon at any time. What matters is level and color and those map easily to the current card game. Everything else is just window dressing and design space. Things like attributes and explicit levels are basically just creature types for cards. Insert the appropriate grade for level, make the attribute "Appmon", drop in the classification and you're done. The Bee posted:They aren't even consistently uniquely random. Beast Spirit's Perfect on the vital bracelet but Champion in the card game. To make things even more confusing in the way olden days of the very original Digimon card game the first time they printed Agnimon and Wolfmon they were actually statted up like Ultimates, they explicitly had to evolve from Perfect level Digimon and had base stats comparable to Ultimate Digimon in the same set like Saint Galgomon and Sakuyamon. Chakmon, meanwhile, was statted and evolved like a Perfect. The same thing happened with most of the B-Hybrids, the first three times Vritramon was printed he was statted like an Ultimate as well, then starting from the second printing he was explicitly treated as a Perfect for game rules despite punching up. And wouldn't you know it? Something happened with Ardhamon, except in his first couple of appearances he was REALLY pushed, like not only did the game treat him as a Ultimate (once they started doing that) (consistently), he was statted unbelievably high. Like, he was around the same level as Digimon like Ziyd Millenniumon or Dukemon Crimson Mode or half the printings of Omegamon. Yes, this was almost 100% driven by power creep and wanting to advertise for the shiny new thing, and this wasn't new to the old Hyper Coliseum Digimon card game (when they first came out they were given ridiculous special abilities that meant any given armor Digimon could win a 1 v 1 against Apocalymon or Omegamon no questions asked), but the whole reason I'm listing all this is because a) developing consistent power levels for the Hybrids was and is really really messy and b) if I knew all this poo poo it's only fair you have to know it too. Basically, getting to the point where Agnimon and Vritramon were pretty consistently level IVs (with occasional, understandable exceptions) and Ardhamon was level V was a, let's say, circuitous development. Blaze Dragon posted:I don't think this particularly matters as a comparison because Frontier didn't have a level system. It had Digimon evolve, but it never actually specified levels and the MotWs would be of entirely random levels and keep a power curve that made sense for the series. The very first enemy they fight is a Perfect-level (Cerberumon) which Agnimon beats with no issues, but then Raremon is a bigger fight despite being an Adult, and so on. Levels don't exist in Frontier, just as they don't exist in Xros Wars. This is basically the approach to take. The one major caveat is that Frontier does acknowledge that regular Digimon do have the levels that have been established over the past three years of television, there are a number of times where we see Digimon evolve and in every instance they evolve in a way that's understandable or along a path that is recognizable. Yes, a couple of times they jump a stage, but it remains recognizable that they evolved in the previously established way Digimon evolve. Similarly this applies to Digimon and their lifecycles more broadly, when the three great angels reincarnate they come back as the most "canonical" child form for each of them (Patamon, Plottmon, and Lopmon). In Frontier it's just that hybrids are just kind of all over the place, which sadly reflects on the show's inconsistency using the protagonists on a number of fronts. Meanwhile, Xros Wars tried to make a very determined to break from Digimon's established evolution levels to... Not actually particularly profitable results. Not only was Xros Wars at least as inconsistent as Frontier in showcasing the relative strengths of the major characters (if not more so, the Death General Arc completely buries the protagonists and makes them look really weak with frustrating consistency), the decision to give levels to nobody meant that the Xros Wars era of Digimon couldn't easily appear in games or other media for nearly a decade (remember Shoutmon in Cyber Sleuth?). Moreover, having explicit evolution levels has always been a cheap and easy shorthand for gauging a fight which I must say is handy in a franchise with over a thousand weird monsters whose power can't always be determined just by size or appearance. Sure, maybe somebody felt they had to remove that to get away with giving Shoutmon about 40 different forms that were mostly just sidegrades, but given where Xros Wars ended up I'm going to say it was an instance of the baby going out with the bathwater. If nothing else, shoutouts to the card game because I suspect wanting to use them was the main reason most of those Digimon finally got a level in the great overhaul of 2020.
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Apr 7, 2022 01:21
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Omnicrom posted:If nothing else, shoutouts to the card game because I suspect wanting to use them was the main reason most of those Digimon finally got a level in the great overhaul of 2020. Most likely, yeah. Even beyond the DCG, they probably just wanted to use the Xros Wars designs in general since that is an anime and therefore has relevance in people's minds, yet they couldn't beyond specific ones that easily fit a level. We got sort of that with the newer games but then you had OmegaShoutmon and Arresterdramon as evolutionary dead ends that were not good for gameplay. Now the XW Digimon can be easily used no matter what, except for those that for some reason still have absolutely nothing and have not been given any attention by the franchise (DarkVolumon and Panbachimon come to mind, as well as a bunch of absorption/DigiXrosses like MadLeomon Orochi/Final Mode or MajuuLilithmon).
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Apr 7, 2022 01:39
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I think Hybrids and Armors having weird power levels based partly on what they evolve from is pretty reasonable but implementing that in media with rules tends to make things look all over the place. On the other hand, it's only canonical in the manga but it works in the anime too for Xros Wars to take place in a digital world where the previous system of evolution is mostly broken (due to the world literally being broken up into zones), resulting in a kind of stagnation that is part of what the xros war was engineered to fix.
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Apr 7, 2022 02:08
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Armaggeddemon: What's your Evolution Level? Mine's pretty big.
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Apr 7, 2022 02:56
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The Golux posted:I think Hybrids and Armors having weird power levels based partly on what they evolve from is pretty reasonable but implementing that in media with rules tends to make things look all over the place. On the other hand, it's only canonical in the manga but it works in the anime too for Xros Wars to take place in a digital world where the previous system of evolution is mostly broken (due to the world literally being broken up into zones), resulting in a kind of stagnation that is part of what the xros war was engineered to fix. I figure it works for the anime too, with actual Digivolution being this lost secret art that only a rare few even accomplished.
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Apr 7, 2022 03:03
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Funky Valentine posted:Armaggeddemon: What's your Evolution Level? Mine's pretty big. I want you to know that I appreciated this
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Apr 7, 2022 04:52
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The Bee posted:I figure it works for the anime too, with actual Digivolution being this lost secret art that only a rare few even accomplished. Sadly, while it would make sense that's not the direction they go with in the anime. When Shoutmon first evolves Tactimon immediately recognizes that he has evolved, knows what evolution is, states that he himself evolved to reach his current form, and is most surprised that Shoutmon was able to do it so fast. Furthermore, Omegamon's voice explained to the kids that what happened is that Shoutmon was able to reach the form he is/was eventually going to grow into sometime in the future early with their help. Basically, the episode introducing evolution says pretty unequivocally that it is a thing that can happen normally and is understood by Digimon and an ongoing part of the world, not a lost secret at all. If anything it reaffirms all the usual Digimon understandings of how evolution works and how having a human partner allows a Digimon to evolve much more rapidly. It's quite different from the manga where evolution is normally impossible and has been forgotten which is the whole reason they invented Digixrossing to become stronger. Blaze Dragon posted:Now the XW Digimon can be easily used no matter what, except for those that for some reason still have absolutely nothing and have not been given any attention by the franchise (DarkVolumon and Panbachimon come to mind, as well as a bunch of absorption/DigiXrosses like MadLeomon Orochi/Final Mode or MajuuLilithmon). I suspect most of the one-off Xrosses and the minor digimon are probably going to remain in obscurity, for better or worse. Naturally they could reverse this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if the Digimon didn't get a level in the update they aren't going to get one, much less appear in anything ever again. I could be wrong, and maybe Dark Volumon will pop up in BT-10 as a level IV or whatever, but I have my doubts if that particular Digimon will ever be seen again.
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Apr 7, 2022 19:02
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Just how similar are Jogress and DigiXros?
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Apr 7, 2022 19:18
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Some Numbers posted:Just how similar are Jogress and DigiXros? depends on which version of jogress you're using, but jogress is almost always just two things and it's two digimon combining their digicores to become one digimon of the next level (usually). Digixros is pretty much always temporary and can be more than two digimon at a time, and while it can be a pretty complete fusion sometime it's literally just adding components from one digimon onto another one and it generally seems that instead of the two digimons' personalities combining or needing to work together like a jogress, in a digixros generally one component is "in charge."
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Apr 7, 2022 20:07
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Omnicrom posted:I suspect most of the one-off Xrosses and the minor digimon are probably going to remain in obscurity, for better or worse. Naturally they could reverse this, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if the Digimon didn't get a level in the update they aren't going to get one, much less appear in anything ever again. I could be wrong, and maybe Dark Volumon will pop up in BT-10 as a level IV or whatever, but I have my doubts if that particular Digimon will ever be seen again. I'd imagine so as well but we got Shoutmon X4K after that, plus KingWhamon got a card when it had nothing before (or since, for that matter) so I have no idea what to expect. Therefore, I choose to keep hope.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:22
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Some Numbers posted:Just how similar are Jogress and DigiXros? Adding onto what was said Think of it like this- it's the difference between combiners in mecha anime and fusion in DBZ.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:36
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Paildramon is Vegerot. Shoutmon X4 is a Megazord. And they'd both lose to Diaboromon.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:38
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Some Numbers posted:Just how similar are Jogress and DigiXros? Jogressing is a form of evolution where two or more Digimon evolve into a singular Digimon. DigiXrossing, meanwhile, is a kind of fusion that's distinct from Evolution (though not mutually exclusive, a Xrossed Digimon can independently evolve or vice-versa). girl dick energy posted:Paildramon is Vegerot. Shoutmon X4 is a Megazord. This is correct, even up to the point that Sentai robos/Megazords these days usually have the ability to do a "Slap a new part on it" sidegrade powerup distinct from the "proper" new upgrade. Thus there's a bunch of Shoutmon X4 variants, but the real important poo poo is combining into X5. And Diavolomon would definitely smash up Paildramon or X4. I love my dumb token spam evil internet monster deck.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:01
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the best ShoutmonXwhatever variant is Shoutmon X4K. I have spoken.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:07
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drat, I should've said Voltron.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:14
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girl dick energy posted:Paildramon is Vegerot. Shoutmon X4 is a Megazord. Don't ever call Vegeto by that awful name again.
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Apr 7, 2022 21:52
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Some Numbers posted:Don't ever call Vegeto by that awful name again.
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Apr 7, 2022 22:27
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Omnicrom posted:I love my dumb token spam evil internet monster deck. A guy from my locals had some fun tokens 
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Apr 7, 2022 23:51
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That rules
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Apr 8, 2022 00:01
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New card set announced! And with it comes new mechanics quote:Shoutmon X4 quote:Shoutmon quote:Kudou Taiki New Rule [Digi Xros] By placing the specified cards from your hand or battle area into evolution sources, you reduce the play cost e.g. Shoutmon X4 <Digi Xros -2> For each of the specified card placed into its evolution sources, its play cost is reduced by 2, if you managed to place all 4, the play cost is reduced by 8 The Xros Heart deck seems to be multicolor, with Ballistamon being green and Dorulumon and Starmon being yellow, but they get around it with alternate evolution conditions that let them evolve off of any Xros Heart level 2.
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Apr 15, 2022 02:52
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Also reminder that Ghost Game finally returns this weekend
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Apr 15, 2022 03:04
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thetoughestbean posted:New card set announced! And with it comes new mechanics Yep. Looks like Ballistamon and Dorurumon (both level 4s) have a special evo condition where they can evolve off of level 3s with Xros Heart for their normal evo cost.
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Apr 15, 2022 04:23
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I like how all three of Shoutmon, Ballistamon and Dorulumon are shown to be in the same place, clearly a stage for Shoutmon himself. I imagine the upcoming Starmon and Pickmon (still got no Xros Heart Level 2 and nothing else fits the description) and probably Sparrowmon will be the same.
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Apr 15, 2022 04:40
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Blaze Dragon posted:I like how all three of Shoutmon, Ballistamon and Dorulumon are shown to be in the same place, clearly a stage for Shoutmon himself. I imagine the upcoming Starmon and Pickmon (still got no Xros Heart Level 2 and nothing else fits the description) and probably Sparrowmon will be the same. Pickmon is an old level 2, so it'll definitely be the level 2 that Shoutmon evos off of. Starmons we've already seen the art for, and yeah, it's on the same stage. I'm less sure about Sparrowmon, Nene wasn't part of Xros Heart for a while. I imagine that Kiriha and Greymon will likewise not be Xros Heart.
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Apr 15, 2022 04:45
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I want to see Xros Heart Beelzemon
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Apr 15, 2022 05:20
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King of Solomon posted:Pickmon is an old level 2, so it'll definitely be the level 2 that Shoutmon evos off of. Starmons we've already seen the art for, and yeah, it's on the same stage. Does the old pickmon have "Xros Heart" in its traits?
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Apr 15, 2022 19:51
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The Golux posted:Does the old pickmon have "Xros Heart" in its traits? No, but the new one does. It's also prolly better for a Xros Heart deck as it has "When Attacking: If this is a Xros Heart Digimon Draw 1". The old one gave you a boost if you went wide, but based on Saving and Digixrossing it seems like Xros Heart is the sort of deck that goes all in on one hyper big Digimon and definitely needs as much draw power as it can get. Incidentally, Taiki himself is traited as "General" and "Xros Heart", and since Tamers generally don't get keywords that suggests there will be some interaction. General at least will likely be a trait on Kiriha and Nene as well. Additionally the booster pack art was also revealed and Shoutmon X5 is the cover card so he's in for sure and Sparrowmon is all but guaranteed. Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 20:00
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Omnicrom posted:No, but the new one does. It's also prolly better for a Xros Heart deck as it has "When Attacking: If this is a Xros Heart Digimon Draw 1". The old one gave you a boost if you went wide, but based on Saving and Digixrossing it seems like Xros Heart is the sort of deck that goes all in on one hyper big Digimon and definitely needs as much draw power as it can get. We got some of Kiriha's team revealed today. Like Shoutmon et al, they have their ordinary typing plus Blue Flare, and they interact with other specific Kiriha Digimon, Kiriha himself, and Blue Flare as a broader type. Also MailBirdramon has a stun with a trivial condition in its inheritable, so we're gonna have to deal with that again in B10. Whenever we get there, after all these delays....... 
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Apr 16, 2022 08:33
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Looks like we got some rumors for a new set of Ghost Game DiMs going around. (Ghost Game because they're listed as V3) Edit: If this is true that would make this the Villainmon set from the initial Ghost Game dim leaks from last year. https://twitter.com/pepper_rocket/status/1515299068444127235 Sleeping Sigma fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Apr 16, 2022 |
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Apr 16, 2022 15:52
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