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Falcon2001 posted:Even working at Microsoft, during my time there most of the folks I knew were baffled by some of the OS team's moves. (I wasn't in that area, different part of the company and no longer there). It was frustrating because like, the folks I knew and worked with were all pretty smart, sane people, I just don't get some of the dumb decisions around OS stuff that kept happening. "Small taskbar icons? SMALL? No, that doesn't make any sense. Denied."
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Apr 15, 2022 06:24
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WSL is awesome. Windows Terminal is awesome and should be baseline. The Android Emulation stuff is a great idea, execution tbd. Windows Perf Analyzer and that whole tool chain is some of the best software written. The UX team seems to be really loving high though and I'd take a hit of whatever they are smoking.
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Apr 15, 2022 08:41
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poo poo posted this in the Windows Megathread but I'll cross post it here.TheWorldsaStage posted:I just tried Windows 11 with no preconceived notions and I lasted a day. The truncated menus all around are horrible and the action center replacements when you click on poo poo is awful. Why is the sound mixer not there when I click the audio icon? Why does everything take an extra click to do? Am I being unfair? A day to try it sounds like not a lot but every time I try to do anything that isn't browsing I feel like the 11 is putting up a fight. I also just really really hate the new settings menu too.
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Apr 15, 2022 09:37
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The taskbar is a pain in the rear end if you had it adjusted previously, and there's a couple of other annoyances like third party context menu items being an extra click removed, but if you're a standard home user who never really dealt with any of that or just doesn't particularly care about it then I wouldn't say there's any reason to not upgrade if it's available. I've found 11 to be perfectly stable, search is instantaneous and the improved settings menu is night and day over 10, so there's some definite improvements to be had. E: new settings is a vast improvement over the old one in every way, I genuinely can't see an argument for it being worse other not being used to it. Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 09:41
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Apr 15, 2022 09:44
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All I have to say about the taskbar is that I’ve had mine docked to the right for 15-20 years, even in macOS on my MacBook, and after a day of using windows 11 the fact that the taskbar is locked to the bottom stopped mattering any more. I would love it if they reintroduced the ability to dock it to the right, and the explanation about it being complicated for apps to deal with handling the reflow is absurd, given that they have had to deal with the same issues ever since 1995, but until then I can accept that I will need to change my workflow every now and then. I also think it’s ridiculous that so many people itt have this idea that every newcomer to windows 11 must install StartAllBack or whatever the minute they complete the upgrade or they will end up losing their minds and flinging their computers out the window because the new taskbar is going to give them rabies or turn them into a serial killer. For the very vast majority of users, the changes will be a minor annoyance that they will adjust to within hours or days. And advising users who are not tech savvy to install a start/taskbar replacement is often going to end up causing more problems in the long run, because those will be the same people who forget they have a start replacement installed, and they be completely lost when they try to search for solutions to issues with the start menu or taskbar and get nowhere because they should be searching for issues in StartAllBack or whatever instead. In short, give it a week with an open mind, and if you cannot adjust then by all means change whatever you like… but if you actually try to use the new interface you’ll probably realise that it’s actually not as bad as some people make it out to be.
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Apr 15, 2022 10:26
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The thing with having a window that's docked on the side of the desktop and reduces the "available space" (to maximized windows) is not even a special thing. Since Windows 95 any application has been able to make that kind of window, via the AppBar (Application Desktop Toolbar) API. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/application-desktop-toolbars Are they saying they're deprecating that entirely, somehow?
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Apr 15, 2022 11:58
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This looks like a supervillan's control panel from a 60s spy movie.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:27
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beuges posted:In short, give it a week with an open mind, and if you cannot adjust then by all means change whatever you like… but if you actually try to use the new interface you’ll probably realise that it’s actually not as bad as some people make it out to be. The extra clicks are very annoying but this is fair. I understand people and the task bar the very first thing I did was left aligned that bitch. Luckily for me the bottom is where it should go
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Apr 15, 2022 14:31
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i'm kinda likeing Windows 11 not gonna lie. I thought I was gonna be rolling back to 10 less than a week after the upgrade but actually it's pretty sweet
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Apr 15, 2022 14:32
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the only thing I missed was the win+x menu and that's back now. The second (and graphically mismatched) right-click context menu is really gross, but not any worse than Settings vs Control Panel, which I've been living with for years so haha lol who cares??
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Apr 15, 2022 14:36
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Windows 11 biggest mistake is forced grouping on the taskbar. It makes it incredibly hard to manage multiple windows of the same app. Microsoft teams during a call is one of them. The fact its no longer a button tells me someone at Microsoft not only didn't like the option, but also didn't want other people to use the option at all. That person, team, or leader is loving stupid.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:34
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I relate those kinds of design decisions to mobile apps. Stripping out accessibility and features for a “clean” UI, now for the desktop/OS. Thank god ms is bringing their learned lessons from trying to cram an entire desktop OS onto a phone.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:40
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I really hated the forced grouping but honestly the more I've used it the less I care. Right click menu is the biggest problem but none are worthy of the whining online and resistance to upgrading
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Apr 15, 2022 17:41
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I was going to say "Tell us you're an Apple fan without telling us you're an Apple fan." Even Apple lets you move the dock to the side of the screen.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:53
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I'd like small taskbar icons back and some improvements in the right-click menu to stop it being a two stage thing, other than that I don't have many complaints
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Apr 15, 2022 18:18
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codo27 posted:I really hated the forced grouping but honestly the more I've used it the less I care. Right click menu is the biggest problem but none are worthy of the whining online and resistance to upgrading Yeah I will say that this was me too; I forgot to reset it one time on a computer reinstall and got used to it after about a month.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:38
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codo27 posted:I really hated the forced grouping but honestly the more I've used it the less I care. Right click menu is the biggest problem but none are worthy of the whining online and resistance to upgrading Windows 10 is still supported and will be until 2025. If someone doesn't want to upgrade for now, who gives a poo poo? The heroic resistance needed to avoid a Windows 11 upgrade is to not click the "upgrade now" button. Insisting other people make the same choices as you is real weird.
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Apr 15, 2022 20:01
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codo27 posted:I really hated the forced grouping but honestly the more I've used it the less I care. Right click menu is the biggest problem but none are worthy of the whining online and resistance to upgrading Can you point the the whining posts? Seems like the posts I see are people giving honest feedback.
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Apr 15, 2022 20:04
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Here's a dumb win11 thing: PC Health Check says 'yeah you're all good to go!' Windows update says 'doesn't meet minimum system requirements'. Win 11 Installation assistant says 'yeah you're all good to go!' Gonna move into it and see how much I like or dislike it. Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 21:52
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The question should be 'Why should I install Windows 11?' There really isn't a compelling reason right now unless you're on Alder Lake.
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Apr 16, 2022 02:35
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:WSL is awesome. Windows Terminal is awesome and should be baseline. The Android Emulation stuff is a great idea, execution tbd. Windows Perf Analyzer and that whole tool chain is some of the best software written. The UX team seems to be really loving high though and I'd take a hit of whatever they are smoking.  TOOT BOOT posted:The question should be 'Why should I install Windows 11?' There really isn't a compelling reason right now unless you're on Alder Lake.
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Apr 16, 2022 03:58
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I still haven't gotten nagging messages to upgrade so until that happens I probably won't 
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Apr 16, 2022 04:08
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TOOT BOOT posted:The question should be 'Why should I install Windows 11?' There really isn't a compelling reason right now unless you're on Alder Lake. I'm on 12700K and Win10 seems to be just fine. Games run 50% faster than with my 8700K so why upgrade the os?
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Apr 16, 2022 09:00
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Ihmemies posted:I'm on 12700K and Win10 seems to be just fine. Games run 50% faster than with my 8700K so why upgrade the os?
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Apr 16, 2022 09:50
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:WSL is awesome. Windows Terminal is awesome and should be baseline. The Android Emulation stuff is a great idea, execution tbd. Windows Perf Analyzer and that whole tool chain is some of the best software written. The UX team seems to be really loving high though and I'd take a hit of whatever they are smoking. I mean in some aspects it seems like they 'get it', there is more consistency in the UX in Win11 than since perhaps Windows 7 - but only using Windows as a metric, which really isn't saying much. There is still tons of inconsistency and old Win32 UI that pokes through, and yes it's a big undertaking to revamp all of that but it's been a decade since Windows 8. The problem is exacerbated because they move so slowly in this area that when they start introducing new UI concepts, you can have some aspects of the UI that are using these - but then they change direction a year later and it's even more fragmented. Like with Explorer, right-click context menus fade in - but in other apps, they appear with a scrolling animation. Some pull-down menus in updated apps have a drop shadow that fades in after the menu has appeared, others it appears with the animation (like it should). There's difference in spacing. All of this occurs within the "new" UI on Win11. Aside from the inconsistency in the UX, what bugs me most of the 'fragility' of parts of the OS that are clearly using different rendering mechanisms. It's especially noticeable as I jump back and forth between my Mac mini and my PC, there are issues I have with Mac OS and the Finder sure, but responsiveness isn't usually one of them - you don't get the 'flickering' you get on Windows as it's basically drawing a new UX on top of an old one. Like if you have dark mode enabled, invoking several Explorer windows will have the background flash white before they draw in black. Selecting the search bar in an explorer window has a pause so you click in it and start typing, the first few characters are missed - and that useless drop-down also flickers in a white theme before it redraws in black. Scrolling through a folder with lots of images is unresponsive to the mouse wheel and will show generic icon placeholders before it can refresh the icons from an already existing thumbnail cache. And of course, consistency - a context menu will look exactly the same in 50 Mac OS apps, vs it being almost random in Win11 across 10. And hell lets not even mention Office. It's all so slipshod.
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Apr 16, 2022 20:27
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:I mean in some aspects it seems like they 'get it', there is more consistency in the UX in Win11 than since perhaps Windows 7 - but only using Windows as a metric, which really isn't saying much. There is still tons of inconsistency and old Win32 UI that pokes through, and yes it's a big undertaking to revamp all of that but it's been a decade since Windows 8. The problem is exacerbated because they move so slowly in this area that when they start introducing new UI concepts, you can have some aspects of the UI that are using these - but then they change direction a year later and it's even more fragmented. Like with Explorer, right-click context menus fade in - but in other apps, they appear with a scrolling animation. Some pull-down menus in updated apps have a drop shadow that fades in after the menu has appeared, others it appears with the animation (like it should). There's difference in spacing. All of this occurs within the "new" UI on Win11. This is insightful. I definitely notice a lot of this and even though my system is strangely bulletproof despite being built on i7 7700 (not kosher) the sensation of 'fragility' is actually a huge UX concern. Having a BSOD is relatively cathartic ifi I know my work is backed up, but the nagging feeling that something is wrong and this stable OS is built on a house of cards is really something they need to work on.
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Apr 16, 2022 21:19
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:This is free, btw Now I have something to picture in my head when I see somebody ranting about the UI changes and it explains a lot
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Apr 16, 2022 23:45
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Tiny Timbs posted:Now I have something to picture in my head when I see somebody ranting about the UI changes and it explains a lot Sorry but I’m not ranting about UI changes? Just saying they’re fixable via third party and I have an unhealthy browser config. With an investment of a couple minutes and zero dollars you can get the small icons and up down and sideways taskbar. Thank god we didn’t rely on third parties to fix M$ bullshit before this.
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Apr 16, 2022 23:55
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A big argument against the bottom taskbar is ultrawide monitors, so much loving wasted space compared to a side one. StartAllBack, then add in 7+ Taskbar Tweaker and TClock Redux, then use the new Snap Layouts (or displayfusion) and you can get it set up pretty nicely Lum fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 17, 2022 |
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Apr 17, 2022 00:00
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Sorry but I’m not ranting about UI changes? I know you're not but I'm still going to picture an anxiety-attack worthy amount of tiny icons scattered haphazardly across the screen and weird UI panes whenever somebody does. If that's what some people are looking for then no wonder they're not happy.
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Apr 17, 2022 00:05
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For me the best example of aggressively lovely UI design is the removing of small icons on the taskbar. For years and years the first thing I do on Windows is set the taskbar to use small icons, because I don't need to have a Reader's Digest easy-reading inch-tall loving taskbar. Yes, Microsoft, I know you think it is pretty but it doesn't need to be fuckoff huge for no goddamn reason. To then force grouping icons is just adding insult to injury, making the taskbar much bigger than it needs to be but making it even less useful. I'm holding off on Windows 11 because at this point I see no benefit to it, and significant annoyances. Having to install a 3rd party tool just to make the desktop work as expected is not something I see as reasonable.
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Apr 17, 2022 00:10
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Tiny Timbs posted:I know you're not but I'm still going to picture an anxiety-attack worthy amount of tiny icons scattered haphazardly across the screen and weird UI panes whenever somebody does. If that's what some people are looking for then no wonder they're not happy. Ah, yeah. I worked for a guy who did SEO and he wanted to show me his work on my laptop. My weirdo browser (FF back then maybe?) with uBlock and whatever was not showing him what he thought his audience was seeing. Just had to go to private browser to see the web unfiltered (it's porn, right?)
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Apr 17, 2022 00:15
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Tiny Timbs posted:I know you're not but I'm still going to picture an anxiety-attack worthy amount of tiny icons scattered haphazardly across the screen and weird UI panes whenever somebody does. If that's what some people are looking for then no wonder they're not happy. Alternately, you can picture a perfectly clean surface with no visible icons at all, because the other people who tend to complain about UI changes are super minimalists. The 11 file explorer now has an un-hidable row of fat ugly buttons.  My zen feng shui is ruined!But if you think about it, these are the signs that someone cares about UI. They care enough to personalize it and add/remove things besides the defaults. If you don't care about UI enough to do anything of your own with it, then of course you roll with the changes pretty easily.
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Apr 17, 2022 00:59
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You guys that use small icons must have huge monitors with relatively low DPI, I use standard size icons and I still have scaling enabled on my monitor.
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Apr 17, 2022 02:04
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The Lord Bude posted:You guys that use small icons must have huge monitors with relatively low DPI, I use standard size icons and I still have scaling enabled on my monitor. I mean, I suppose it depends on your definition of terms, but I'm talking about standard 1080p at 24" and 1440p at 27". I think those are pretty standard size/resolution factors.
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Apr 17, 2022 02:23
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Tiny icons are only a problem if you have to aim at them with a mouse. For people who use the keyboard for everything the taskbar is just a list of programs. You use win+# and alt-tab instead of clicking on things. (Or for people with vision issues.)
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Apr 17, 2022 02:44
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Klyith posted:Tiny icons are only a problem if you have to aim at them with a mouse. I'd say they are only a problem if you're using a touchscreen - the whole point of using a mouse is precision, to my mind. Maybe I've played FPS games for too long or something, though.
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Apr 17, 2022 02:54
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'd say they are only a problem if you're using a touchscreen - the whole point of using a mouse is precision, to my mind. Maybe I've played FPS games for too long or something, though. This is really interesting thing I've noticed is that a lot of people are just running their mouse at way too high of a eDPI on their desktop. Someone, they get pointer smoothing turned off and are running with accleration-less mouse movement and it feels like they have to line up every click. It doesn't have to be this way  .
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Apr 17, 2022 03:08
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Klyith posted:Bluetooth sucked in the past on windows, but starting with 10 it improved to "as good as any other platform". Which is still not amazing, because bluetooth is inherently kinda sucky. AptX and AAC are both supported for A2DP (depending on hardware), so music playback is generally good. Regarding your * - I couldn't even pair my AirPods Pro to my windows PC despite trying a ton of different voodoo rituals. It just doesn't work, I gave up on it It connects seamlessly to my Mac so, so I'm firmly in the Bluetooth on Windows sucks camp still
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Apr 17, 2022 04:26
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