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DeadlyMuffin posted:People are putting slurs in reports? Someone got a sixer for it recently, yeah. Beats me what it was because I'm not a mod. But SA has also always been like this. Annoying but generally fine posts get punished hard and then the really weird stuff by people who will flip out of you punish them at all will get ignored because who wants to deal with someone who is going to flip out and harass you if you're just a volunteer mod on a dead comedy website.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:46
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's honestly as simple as the Republicans looking at the rules, deciding nothing explicitly says they can't do the thing they want to do so they just do it even if when you really get into it it's "against the rules". In comparison the Democrats look and if the rules say they can't explicitly do something they often choose not to. And honestly that's the right way to operate during normal times when both parties are following that. But that's not the time we're in. Nah, the Dems did things like: * Flip the entire Senate by bribing a centrist with a committee chair (talk about voter disenfranchisement!) * Unilaterally rewrite procedures around 2/3 majority needed to change cloture rules * YOLOed a huge healthcare bill via reconciliation Complaints like this actually boil down to: the Dems aren’t willing to break the rules, in support of policies I care about.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:49
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Nah, the Dems did things like: Fair yeah, at the end of the day I think we're in unprecedented times and only have a few years to actually save our government the way it is, not even talking about improving the trash fire, and we're not taking the radical actions necessary for that. The Dems are not willing to break the rules for policies I support and I believe not supporting those policies will lead to uncontested fascist take over of the US. Some of that belief comes from messaging from the Democratic party about how fascist Republicans are and for they want to take over the government and control it without me having any input into it. You're not wrong though.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:53
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Elephant Ambush posted:Good to know the moderation has officially backslid to the point where leftists get probed for pretty much anything the mods feel like while the very calm, very reasonable, very adult in the room liberals are never punished for defending the ghoulish status quo. Koos isn't even bothering to come up with actual rules violations anymore. It's just "Undignified" and "Unoriginal material" which are meaningless. And then we had "strawmanning" while completely ignoring the strawmanning of leftists that liberals do. Seriously, nobody was punished for repeatedly saying obviously disingenuous stuff like "you only want direct action because it will make you, personally, feel good". Unoriginal material refers to posting arguments that have likely been seen by readers many times before, which is against the D&D's rule of keeping material interesting. This can be a particular problem in the USCE thread, which many people have complained to me about, so I'm trying to scrutinize it more closely in this way. You're right that I probably should have been more detailed in the probie of Mr. Fjord, as I was wrong to think the full reason would be obvious. It was for a post that was both not in good faith and making the discussion about meta-issues (which also are not interesting to a general audience, which is why I prefer to discuss them in their own threads or have users PM me with concerns). For perceived bias between political groups, my primary concern is good discussion and not what political stripe is winning. The only way I could see my own politics affecting my moderation is that because I read more leftist material online than other political alignments, it could make it more likely that I've seen a leftist argument many times before and consider it tiresome. But I try to take into consideration whether it's specifically been said on the SA forums, and even more specifically in this thread, and how recently as well. For the example of Mr. Trotsky getting away with saying his opponent's proposal had a purpose of making its advocate feel good, that was because it fit with how he was structuring his argument. If there were a milquetoast liberal policy that a leftist criticized, showing why it doesn't accomplish its goal and hypothesizing that its purpose is to make Democrats feel good about doing something rather than actual change, I also would not have probated for that.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:56
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Koos Group posted:Unoriginal material refers to posting arguments that have likely been seen by readers many times before, which is against the D&D's rule of keeping material interesting. This can be a particular problem in the USCE thread, which many people have complained to me about, so I'm trying to scrutinize it more closely in this way. I honestly feel like you're doing a good job, please keep up the difficult thankless work that I'm sure gets you tons of poo poo from online weirdos.
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Apr 15, 2022 17:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:A South Carolina prisoner has chosen the firing squad as a method of execution. Barbaric poo poo. I've mentioned it before but as long as we do have the death penalty (we should not), I keep hearing we have a huge fentanyl problem and it's incredibly lethal so god drat just drag some of that out of the evidence lockers, use that and be done with it. From everything I've read, people who OD on it go out peacefully and in a state of bliss.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:08
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BiggerBoat posted:From everything I've read, people who OD on it go out peacefully and in a state of bliss. This is explicitly against the goals of the death penalty here unfortunately.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:10
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BiggerBoat posted:Barbaric poo poo. Mischievous Mink posted:This is explicitly against the goals of the death penalty here unfortunately. Unfortunately, the death penalty is entirely about exacting revenge and suffering and has little to do with actually ending a person's life humanely. The emotional side of me always wants to think "there's probably an exception", but no. no there is not. There should not be a death penalty.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:14
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BiggerBoat posted:Barbaric poo poo. "Law and order" and "tough on crime" may as well be interpreted as the simulated consciousness eternally experiencing execution from that one black mirror episode. And people are so twisted up and full of misdirected/directionless rage it will gladly be received as such.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:16
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Unfortunately, the death penalty is entirely about exacting revenge and suffering and has little to do with actually ending a person's life humanely. The emotional side of me always wants to think "there's probably an exception", but no. no there is not. There should not be a death penalty. This. It's too depressing for me to dig up particulars right now but this isn't some armchair psychologist inference. There have been a number of officials who explicitly objected to particular methods because it might make the executed person feel good.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:21
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Blue Footed Booby posted:This. It's too depressing for me to dig up particulars right now but this isn't some armchair psychologist inference. There have been a number of officials who explicitly objected to particular methods because it might make the executed person feel good. I've also heard that it's incredibly difficult to find licensed doctors willing to participate in executions, so they're mostly done by people that are wholly unqualified to be "euthanizing", as it were, any living being.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:22
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Like, putting a creature to death painlessly is a solved problem. Vets do it all the time. It's such a no-brainer it's been part of sci-fi for centuries. But we can't get there because we have to arrange our ideas of justice around pain and suffering and revenge.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:24
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Lib and let die posted:I've also heard that it's incredibly difficult to find licensed doctors willing to participate in executions, so they're mostly done by people that are wholly unqualified to be "euthanizing", as it were, any living being. Doctors that take their oath seriously should not go anywhere near the death penalty. Also, they can't buy the drugs because the manufacturers cut them off so they have used some homemade concoctions that went extremely bad for the person the state was murdering.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:27
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BRJurgis posted:"Law and order" and "tough on crime" may as well be interpreted as the simulated consciousness eternally experiencing execution from that one black mirror episode. And people are so twisted up and full of misdirected/directionless rage it will gladly be received as such. If you want to get philosophical about it, technically there is no such thing as “justice” under a capitalist society and certainly not in the US since it is an oligarchy. The firing squad also makes no sense as one close-range shot can do the job while the reason for the firing squad is to purposely miss, cause pain, and extend the suffering. At that point the firing squad may as well be made up of family members impacted by the individual sentenced to death (ignoring if the accused is even truly guilty). It’s all revenge fantasy bullshit. (Edited for clarity) virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 18:30
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And since we're talking about the dug in GOP base, there's also been a ton of really obvious criminal, seditious and conspiratorial evidence coming out every day about 1/6 but, in the spirit of my last post about how the GOP simply doesn't care and can ignore pretty much everything, the conservatives I know could care loving less about it. It went from yay, stop the steal, USA, USA to it was Antifa and a false flag to it was no big deal and they were invited in and back around to where it was legit and the election really WAS stolen. Any explanation at all will work for the base. So now actual elected members of that party are passing tighter voting restrictions and are going to nominate the dear leader who pushed it all along and are openly running on Qanon poo poo. If 1/6 had been a 2nd million man march or some sort of BLM rise up, there'd still be blood stains on the Capitol steps and 90% of the US would still be having a collective freak out. It'd be the lead story on CNN as well as FOX. And they're going to do it again if Trump loses in two years.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:30
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If the cruelty wasn't the point we wouldn't have the death penalty, we would just have a system that rehabilitated people and if they couldn't be rehabilitated provide for them in a way that protects them and the public. It would even be easier. But instead we twist ourselves into knots to try to kill people for "justice".
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Apr 15, 2022 18:38
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eviltastic posted:It more or less is them calling dibs, in that another state passing a similar law would result in a ridiculous arms race as they keep leapfrogging each other's scheduled dates. It works as long as the party doesn't have the political will to put its foot down and make them knock it off, which has changed as a result of last time's shitshow (and the one before that, but that was more under wraps). Comedy option: Iowa keeps their first in the nation caucus, but the law is changed such that it's only symbolic and they have a primary later on that actually counts for something. This was actually the case in Washington for a short time prior to going all mail-in voting.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:47
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BiggerBoat posted:And since we're talking about the dug in GOP base, there's also been a ton of really obvious criminal, seditious and conspiratorial evidence coming out every day about 1/6 but, in the spirit of my last post about how the GOP simply doesn't care and can ignore pretty much everything, the conservatives I know could care loving less about it. Lol our worthless DoJ isn't going to do a goddam thing. Garland is allergic to doing his job.
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Apr 15, 2022 18:53
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Kalit posted:Honestly, you should probably stop looking at this thread/forum as liberal vs leftist. The whole country is this way. This thread/forum is just the problem writ small. Leftists pushing for change, liberals inventing excuses for why things can't be fixed because it might interrupt their comfortable status quo.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:03
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BiggerBoat posted:Barbaric poo poo. There's an even easier way, breathing in nitrogen gas is one of the most peaceful and painless ways to go. The body doesn't have a mechanism for defense against nitrogen like it does for carbon dioxide. Edit: This is not in support of a death penalty, but would be nice for people with terminal diseases who want to end their suffering.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:09
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If executed, I want to be guillotined, just to make the state have to build a nice new one. We can put iut in the town square when we're done to! Make an art project out of it
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Apr 15, 2022 19:12
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Bishyaler posted:The whole country is this way. This thread/forum is just the problem writ small. Leftists pushing for change, liberals inventing excuses for why things can't be fixed because it might interrupt their comfortable status quo. Yup, those are the two things going on in the country. There are no other important groups. Good analysis.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:13
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Elephant Ambush posted:Good to know the moderation has officially backslid to the point where leftists get probed for pretty much anything the mods feel like while the very calm, very reasonable, very adult in the room liberals are never punished for defending the ghoulish status quo. Koos isn't even bothering to come up with actual rules violations anymore. It's just "Undignified" and "Unoriginal material" which are meaningless. And then we had "strawmanning" while completely ignoring the strawmanning of leftists that liberals do. Seriously, nobody was punished for repeatedly saying obviously disingenuous stuff like "you only want direct action because it will make you, personally, feel good". Reminder that "whatever mods don't like, even if it isn't a specific rule" wins over anything else. They don't have to be specific or fair or consistent. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) The Sean fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 19:15
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Mellow Seas posted:Yup, those are the two things going on in the country. There are no other important groups. Good analysis. The term liberals and conservatives is interchangeable in this context if it helps 
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Apr 15, 2022 19:17
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:The term liberals and conservatives is interchangeable in this context if it helps (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 15, 2022 19:19
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Mellow Seas posted:Nah, man. Not even close. Get out of your echo chamber. Can you explain the difference instead of handwriting their statement away?
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Apr 15, 2022 19:21
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The Sean posted:Can you explain the difference instead of handwriting their statement away? Nope. I'm tired of explaining things that 95% of the population understands already, just because half the people who post here refuse to. I mean I'll take a probe for it, who gives a poo poo e: Fine, because I'm such a nice guy: consider that despite the definition of "liberal" being contested, maybe the 50% of the country that is constantly furious about how liberals are radical leftists are meaningfully different from liberals
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Apr 15, 2022 19:21
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American political definitions are really not shared with the rest of the world and our definition of liberal is much more a product of an echo chamber than thinking American liberals and conservatives are members of the same tendency with different positions within it.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:American political definitions are really not shared with the rest of the world and our definition of liberal is much more a product of an echo chamber than thinking American liberals and conservatives are members of the same tendency with different positions within it. Good thing we're posting the in the current events thread for the US then. Seems like a good place to use relevant definitions.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:24
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Bishyaler posted:The whole country is this way. This thread/forum is just the problem writ small. Leftists pushing for change, liberals inventing excuses for why things can't be fixed because it might interrupt their comfortable status quo. At risk of running across the tired arguments rule, it's basically this. I don't know that the bolded part is completely fair though, people have different levels of acceptance of how bad things are, and we all have a scale of "doing what we have to to get by" all the way to full "YOLO [redacted]". Hell, I was pressured earlier and called liberal (in a related thread) as I tried to advocate for organizing. I think its important we all want to fight for this, and given the opportunity ( lol  ) I think we'd all fight together.Edit I guess I have to believe we are here because we care, we want change, not to own our posting enemies. virtualboyCOLOR posted:If you want to get philosophical about it, technically there is no such thing as “justice” under a capitalist society and certainly not in the US since it is an oligarchy. Order without justice, to enforce a (fleeting) profitable status quo. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 19:25
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Good thing we're posting the in the current events thread for the US then. Seems like a good place to use relevant definitions. Eh, I'd argue that Americans being ignorant of political science culturally isn't a good reason for us to pretend we're ignorant. We don't outlaw using metric in this thread.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:American political definitions are really not shared with the rest of the world and our definition of liberal is much more a product of an echo chamber than thinking American liberals and conservatives are members of the same tendency with different positions within it.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:26
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Mellow Seas posted:OK, let me ask you this: can you imagine somebody who is to the right of liberals? Do any of them exist in the United States? What do their views and voting patterns look like? Fascists. Do you mean fascists because you can just say that? The Republicans are conservative liberals to fascists, the Democrats are progressive and conservative liberals, and then there is a whole left spectrum that has very little representation in the US. But all American parties are liberals or contain liberals. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 19:27
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Mellow Seas posted:OK, let me ask you this: can you imagine somebody who is to the right of liberals? Do any of them exist in the United States? What do their views and voting patterns look like? There is no material difference between someone who wants a fascist state and someone who has the power to stop them, but doesn't. (And that's a kind interpretation since examples can be made that Democrats enable Republicans, like Democrats voting to expand Trump's spying powers, for example)
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Apr 15, 2022 19:28
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Gumball Gumption posted:Fascists. Do you mean fascists because you can just say that? Using the definition of "leftist" that is popular among your cohort, would it not be pretty much undeniable that there are more fascists in America than leftists? So why would we frame the primary political tension of America as "leftists vs. liberals," when fascists have massive amount of political power? Bishyaler posted:There is no material difference between someone who wants a fascist state and someone who has the power to stop them, but doesn't.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:29
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This thread has become unreadable because the same angry posters take over every single page with post after post saying the same exact thing we already know (and mostly agree on, as far as policy goals). Just make a separate "dems suck" thread so we can actually follow current events here and not read the same lashing out constantly from the same small handful of posters. It's just non-stop sulking at this point and far beyond the point of rebooting the thread in the first place.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:31
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Literally everyone in this thread is a leftist, especially in the context of the United States. Who the gently caress here does not vote for the most leftward option available? There are zero "liberals" here by ANY current political definition, voting for liberals does not make one liberal in America. They are the most leftist option in most general elections because the U.S. left is impotent, fractious (just look at again, this thread) and too much interested in useless moral grandstanding, instead of ruthless long-term political strategy and tactics that would require them to maybe condemn some of the people they personally know instead of phantoms on the internet.
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 19:31
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Both the US and worldwide definitions of liberal are common and relevant enough that's it's not against the rules to use them. The main thing is just clear communication on which one you mean, which usually can be inferred from context.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:32
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Koos Group posted:Both the US and worldwide definitions of liberal are common and relevant enough that's it's not against the rules to use them. The main thing is just clear communication on which one you mean, which usually can be inferred from context.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:32
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Mellow Seas posted:Using the definition of "leftist" that is popular among your cohort, would it not be pretty much undeniable that there are more fascists in America than leftists? So why would we frame the primary political tension of America as "leftists vs. liberals," when fascists have massive amount of political power? Leftist vs a cohort of liberals and fascists which is really messy because that cohort has a lot of their own internal divisions about how much they should support fascists or leftists would be a lot more accurate, yeah.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:33
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