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Bottom Liner posted:This thread has become unreadable because the same angry posters take over every single page with post after post saying the same exact thing we already know (and mostly agree on, as far as policy goals). Just make a separate "dems suck" thread so we can actually follow current events here and not read the same lashing out constantly from the same small handful of posters. It's just non-stop sulking at this point and far beyond the point of rebooting the thread in the first place. Current events usually present a problem to be solved. The "lashing out" you're complaining about is leftists asking why this administration isn't doing more while liberals twist themselves into knots in defense of nothing being fixed. You don't want a dems suck thread (that already exists and liberals don't go there), you want a space where your party is free from criticism. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 15, 2022 19:37
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Bishyaler posted:Current events usually present a problem to be solved. The "lashing out" you're complaining about is leftists asking why this administration isn't doing more while liberals twist themselves into knots in defense of nothing being fixed. You don't want a dems suck thread (that already exists and liberals don't go there), you want a space where your party is free from criticism. You have no idea about my politics or voting you just like calling people liberal. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 15, 2022 19:39
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Fanboy posting from any political tendency is what kills the thread. Sometimes that comes from loud and unreasonable arguments about doing things that are impossible. Sometimes that comes from people who don't want the possible to happen screaming very loudly about how actually that's impossible and we can't do it so stop whining.
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Apr 15, 2022 19:42
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T To get back on the earlier subject, a presidential pardon can not be revoked while clemency can be, correct? Would what Biden is doing now be more akin to kicking the can down the road and risk the people benefiting being rejailed if/when he is no longer president?
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Apr 15, 2022 19:53
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World Famous W posted:T Pardons are permanent and cannot be revoked once accepted, even by the granting president Clemency is just a word for a partial pardon that doesn't fully roll back your record, so that can't be undone either. The prosecutors would have to go back to court to have the sentence reinstated, and it would have to be with new charges or evidence to get around double jeopardy
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Apr 15, 2022 20:05
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Bishyaler posted:There's an even easier way, breathing in nitrogen gas is one of the most peaceful and painless ways to go. The body doesn't have a mechanism for defense against nitrogen like it does for carbon dioxide. You sounded like you were in support of one yesterday. What changed? Bishyaler posted:It says a lot about the lack of commitment liberals have to actually opposing fascism if you think "jailing fascists for life" or "death sentence for fascists" is a bridge-too-far gotcha. Personally, I think we should be removing power from police, not enabling them further, which is why I'm still against the death penalty in all instances. Even if it was reworked try to limit it to just fascists, I don't think it'd stay that way. This is why I'm still in favor of simply sending in the other states' National Guard to Texas instead, as an alternate solution to the police as our salvation.
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Apr 15, 2022 20:07
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Bishyaler posted:Current events usually present a problem to be solved. The "lashing out" you're complaining about is leftists asking why this administration isn't doing more while liberals twist themselves into knots in defense of nothing being fixed. You don't want a dems suck thread (that already exists and liberals don't go there), you want a space where your party is free from criticism. There is actually an excellent thread where liberals go and you can be as unkind to them as you want, and vice versa: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3989484
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Apr 15, 2022 20:08
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Iowa First is why we have subsidized Ethanol and HFCS. It’s been great!
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Apr 15, 2022 20:34
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duodenum posted:Iowa First is why we have subsidized Ethanol and HFCS. It’s been great! Didn't Mr. Cruz say to Iowans' face he was against their subsidies and they still chose him in the last primary?
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Apr 15, 2022 20:37
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:If you want to get philosophical about it, technically there is no such thing as “justice” under a capitalist society and certainly not in the US since it is an oligarchy. The use of multiple shooters in firing squads is, I believe, meant to emphasize and reinforce the authority of the system. It demonstrates the power of the authority carrying out the sentence by showing that it can command multiple people to carry out the execution, rather than just a single professional executioner. Additionally, for much of the gunpowder era, firing squads were largely a method of military execution, and therefore demonstrated the authority of commanding officers by allowing them to force soldiers into the role of executioner. There were also various tie-ins to the conceptions of militaristic culture and old concepts of honor, though with factors like the increasing use of military force in colonial expansionism (since firing squads were also extremely convenient for a military force to use out in the field), they were largely a mockery of such concepts even before firing squads made their way back into civilian law. Of course, there's also the widely-repeated explanation that it allows soldiers to disperse the guilt of execution by preventing them from knowing who fired the fatal shot, but I suspect that's a more recent addition that came long after the introduction of multi-person firing squads. Though I can't find any documentation on how old the practice is, I'd be rather surprised to see it be much older than the late 19th century. Gumball Gumption posted:Fanboy posting from any political tendency is what kills the thread. Sometimes that comes from loud and unreasonable arguments about doing things that are impossible. Sometimes that comes from people who don't want the possible to happen screaming very loudly about how actually that's impossible and we can't do it so stop whining. The issue comes when people stop discussing verifiable facts and sourceable info and instead just start screaming at each other. For example, in order to discuss potential cases in which the government could force states to do things, we could draw parallels to previous periods in which the federal government attempted to force states to do things. We could look at what the government was able to get away with, as well as where it faced either legal or practical limitations. There's actual historical events we could reference and compare conditions to, and it would make for a more interesting discussion than simply speculating might. In particular, it's worth noting that posts in this thread have no impact on the real world. Arguing in this thread for something to be done will not cause that something to happen. Similarly, arguing in this thread that something is impossible will not cause that thing to not happen. What actually causes things to happen or not happen are various real-world factors that are not affected in the slightest by any posting that happens here. So if someone says that something is impossible, I think it could be cool if instead of accusing them of being "people who don't want the possible to happen", we could assume that they're talking about their honest assessment of those real-world factors. We may believe that their assessment of those factors is incorrect, or we may believe that they're making incorrect comparisons or applying the wrong factors, and I think discussion would generally go more smoothly if people could keep their objections and counterarguments in those kinds of vein - instead of just throwing ideological labels at them and telling them to shut up.
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Apr 15, 2022 20:42
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Main Paineframe posted:In particular, it's worth noting that posts in this thread have no impact on the real world. Arguing in this thread for something to be done will not cause that something to happen. Similarly, arguing in this thread that something is impossible will not cause that thing to not happen. What actually causes things to happen or not happen are various real-world factors that are not affected in the slightest by any posting that happens here. So if someone says that something is impossible, I think it could be cool if instead of accusing them of being "people who don't want the possible to happen", we could assume that they're talking about their honest assessment of those real-world factors. We may believe that their assessment of those factors is incorrect, or we may believe that they're making incorrect comparisons or applying the wrong factors, and I think discussion would generally go more smoothly if people could keep their objections and counterarguments in those kinds of vein - instead of just throwing ideological labels at them and telling them to shut up.  I do get a chuckle when folks defend aggro-posting as "we're just leftists demanding answers!" It's like, no, you're not demanding answers, you're posting on a discussion board on the internet. Demanding answers would involve organizing in the actual world and, you know, actually going up to the people who hold power and demanding they answer your questions. Posting has never been and will never be praxis, it's just wasting time shooting the poo poo with other interested people. Something I try to do and think can be done politely, since we're all on the same side. This is why I try to follow-up my posting in the climate thread, for example, by imploring folks to get involved with real world organizations and to take real world action. Posting isn't worth jack poo poo, only actual actions matter.
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Apr 15, 2022 20:51
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Mellow Seas posted:Nah, man. Not even close. Get out of your echo chamber. So I looked up the probate reason and I did not take this comment as rude in the least. Mellow Seas may take a position I disagree with but it was a perfectly fine discussion in my book. I would have enjoyed continuing the conversation. Koos Group posted:There is actually an excellent thread where liberals go and you can be as unkind to them as you want, and vice versa: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3989484 That does not solve the issue. Many people of all backgrounds have different ways of thinking and values. That is going to come across when people post. There is a level of frustration that enters this discussion when a perfectly viable suggestion is shut down simply because another group appears to have a lack of imagination and creativity. There is also a level of frustration from others when a suggestion sounds disorderly would run afoul of the current understanding of the laws. Most of all, there’s the overwhelming feeling that none of it matters as most posters have the understanding that the ruling party has zero interest in doing anything meaningful anyway and we are all in for a rough time in the future. Pointing folks to that thread is asking to remove the human equation out of debate. I personally don’t find it doable or helpful How are u posted:
This is fair to an extent. However when “leftists” demand more from the ruling party that claim to be the champions of human rights, it’s also not helpful to shut them down. It further disincentivizes actions. Saying “well go do something” also isn’t helpful as a lot of people need steps on where to even start (plus would like to know their efforts won’t be for not). virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 20:58
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1514627035490131975?s=21&t=tc4uBNSN1IlUOU1DiQq6lg They should really forgive student debt. Anyone have this poll?
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Apr 15, 2022 21:02
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Main Paineframe posted:The use of multiple shooters in firing squads is, I believe, meant to emphasize and reinforce the authority of the system. It demonstrates the power of the authority carrying out the sentence by showing that it can command multiple people to carry out the execution, rather than just a single professional executioner. Yeah, I agree with all of that and would add the same applies to people who are proposing options and arguments that get dismissed as impossible. I think there are good posts that explain why what they're proposing is more complicated than they think or understand and then there are bad posts that amount to some version of "That can't happen, stop asking for unicorns". The first is a good post, the second is someone who just wants all the whiners to go away. Hell it works for conservatives too. Conservatives who post and have discussions and are able to influence and be influenced are productive posters in these threads. Trump fanboys don't last long. That style of posting also ruins discussions about almost everything. Video games, movies, sports. It's bad.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:02
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I've lived in some far left leaning/blue/democratic/whatever you wanna call it states and cities along with some pretty red/conservative/right places and I think that, overall, the United States right now is at best a center right country and it's getting more and more right wing all the time in ways that I don't think can be stopped. You can give me lists of left wing policies that poll well when they're worded the correct way but I still think that by and large, right now, most Americans are relatively conservative minded and mostly view that as the way forward. A lot of them may not it want it manifested or writ large in the form of someone like Donald Trump but the electorate is more than primed for the second coming of something along the lines of a Reagan like figure that can make this poo poo polished and palatable again. A "reasonable" Republican with the same horrible ideas the party always holds could win in a landslide. I think Mitt Romney could win if it weren't for the extreme base of the GOP, but for someone LIKE him with more charisma and polish the brass ring is right there. This is bolstered by the roughly 1/3 of the country that is absolutely 100% dug in, mean, armed, angry, crazy and totally behind the GOP no matter what they do. I don't think the democratic base is anywhere close to that level of solidified or passionate, especially given what they've gotten and achieved under Obama/Biden. We've been repeatedly shown that, if anything, it's fracturing and receding since Democrats just keep telling them over and over to be patient and reasonable. If history does in fact repeat itself, then I'd say we're in 1978 again languishing under Jimmy Carter. And I rather liked Carter. I think that spending too much time on SA and this thread sometimes clouds what the majority of the population thinks is reasonable or rational.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:08
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1514627035490131975?s=21&t=tc4uBNSN1IlUOU1DiQq6lg It's this one; see p. 133.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:14
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Ugh, I hate ideology chat bc it always ends up making assumptions about linear politics correlating with a fictional political "spectrum." Some of the strongest, M4A-will-never-ever-happen, Democrats fully support trans rights. A majority of Republicans support Medicaid (and no, not bc they envision only white people benefitting by it). Some of the strongest self-styled "progressives" are ok with Medicaid clawback, which is endemic in true-blue states like CA, or the current rock-bottom Medicaid threshold in expansion states. A whole gamut of voters seems ok with the current framework of "no new taxes for anyone not making the top 1 percent of income," which strikes me as absolutely insane (as well as a recipe for further degradation of what used to be a social-safety net). We're not a "center-left" or "center-right" country because those terms are meaningless, particularly when political discourse has pretty much been narrowed & hollowed by corporate media & by politicians themselves while still trying to make you believe that parties themselves are "good" or "bad" irrespective of actions & beliefs. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 21:22
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Main Paineframe posted:The issue comes when people stop discussing verifiable facts and sourceable info and instead just start screaming at each other. For example, in order to discuss potential cases in which the government could force states to do things, we could draw parallels to previous periods in which the federal government attempted to force states to do things. We could look at what the government was able to get away with, as well as where it faced either legal or practical limitations. There's actual historical events we could reference and compare conditions to, and it would make for a more interesting discussion than simply speculating might. there are some exceptions, unfortunately. posts -can-, in fact, have an impact on the real world, as in the storied example of "she's making it up for money, and even if she isn't, who cares." the person expressing that opinion was no doubt expressing an honest belief. such hate usually is. and that hatred serves to make the place a more welcoming place for those who share the speaker's point of view, and makes it thoroughly clear the space is not safe for victims of sexual assault. it broadcasts loud and clear to all present "this is another place you will not be believed." it is a fantasy to imagine your posts will change the world. it is also a fantasy to tell yourself that nothing you say actually matters, and that as such you should be free from judgement for advocating on behalf of monstrosity. and at this point, it has become a tragically commonplace pastime among those who see it as their task to defend the Biden administration, to look at the monstrosities emerging from its failures, and say 'actually, expecting anything better is childish naivete.' some judgement has resulted from this.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:25
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Personally I feel like arguing over the theoretical political philosophies of Americans as broad groups and implicitly assuming that these collective philosophies are a driver of change is mainly just a way to reify the questionable idea that the US has a responsive democracy To me it seems like, to the extent that coherent collective ideologies can be observed, they are primarily trailing indicators of the exercise of power rather than leading indicators
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Apr 15, 2022 21:30
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"I wish iowa wasn't the first state primary" finger on monkey's paw curls and now we get to pay disproportionate attention to New Jersey
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Apr 15, 2022 21:49
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"I wish iowa wasn't the first state primary" I want it to be rhode island so we can have pictures of weird politicians chowing down on hot weiners imagine the mayo pete picture but it's a weiner (NOT A HOT DOG) covered in ground beef and onions and 12 ounces of a greek man's arm sweat and a few arm hairs
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Apr 15, 2022 21:51
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"I wish iowa wasn't the first state primary" Are there any Pizza Ranches in New Jersey?
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Apr 15, 2022 21:55
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Lib and let die posted:I want it to be rhode island so we can have pictures of weird politicians chowing down on hot weiners Don't forget the frothy cabinets!
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Apr 15, 2022 21:58
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"I wish iowa wasn't the first state primary" Colorado should be first. I feel this way because I live here, and our candidates will at least be forced to accept weed as a platform.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:59
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Lib and let die posted:I want it to be rhode island so we can have pictures of weird politicians chowing down on hot weiners Joe Biden calls it a milkshake and the riots kick off in Providence
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Apr 15, 2022 22:01
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How are u posted:Are there any Pizza Ranches in New Jersey? No, the closest is in Michigan. The Appalachian Mountains appear to be working as a natural barrier keeping the Pizza hordes at bay.
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Apr 15, 2022 22:07
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I feel like arguing over the theoretical political philosophies of Americans as broad groups and implicitly assuming that these collective philosophies are a driver of change is mainly just a way to reify the questionable idea that the US has a responsive democracy That's a good point, actually, and well put but it doesn't change the fact that America is increasingly right leaning in ways that I'm personally finding it harder and harder to ignore. In fact, it explains it and far more succinctly than I did. I think for a hot minute there, the US was prepared to move pretty far leftward, starting with the election of Barrack Obama and later with OWS and BLM, culminating in the huge voter turnout to gently caress Donald Trump off to his gold plated cave. But it's always so disorganized, meandering and sort of...I dunno...split up I guess by the neo-liberal traditional old guard that controls the DNC and leads to candidates like Joe loving Biden who has proven himself to be the last loving thing we needed just as we were being told by many that he was the perfect way to get back to normal. Thing is, normal sucked. And still sucks. BLM and OWS seemed like pivotal moments for a bit, at least to me. Same with Bernie Sanders and some of the noise he made but, like you said, the power controls the message.
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Apr 15, 2022 23:06
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BiggerBoat posted:That's a good point, actually, and well put but it doesn't change the fact that America is increasingly right leaning in ways that I'm personally finding it harder and harder to ignore. In fact, it explains it and far more succinctly than I did. Maybe I’m too jaded, but the fact that Obama was the “hope and change” candidate and Kucinich was treated as the “crazy” candidate made me lose faith hard in the general populace E: It was the first election I could vote in, so it was the first time I was actually paying more attention Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 23:13
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Kalit posted:Maybe I’m too jaded, but the fact that Obama was the “hope and change” candidate and Kucinich was treated as the “crazy” candidate made me lose faith hard in the general populace The other labels Obama received from a lot of the general populace did that for me more...
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Apr 15, 2022 23:19
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https://twitter.com/TexasTribune/status/1514803786425925633 in terms of presidents people expected Joe Biden to follow in the footsteps of, very few would have guessed James Buchanan. kicking back and enjoying the show, while southern states start making treaties independent of the federal government, because hey. trying to exert federal authority over diplomacy with foreign powers might prove ~divisive~. going to be extremely funny when other states start cutting their own deals with neighbors. who's ready for Japan and China to have a proxy war over who gets most-favored-nation status in Seattle.
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Apr 16, 2022 00:02
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Trump endorsed JD Vance, who used to be one of Trump's biggest critics before he decided to run for office https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1515072153699368963?s=20&t=qy-zstuWHJVtRbZoeXJjkw
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Apr 16, 2022 00:06
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thiel's check cleared, eh
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Apr 16, 2022 00:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:Trump endorsed JD Vance, who used to be one of Trump's biggest critics before he decided to run for office isn't this the guy that bullshitted about being a redneck in order to write a book about an idealized lifestyle that never actually existed
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Apr 16, 2022 00:14
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This is just going to make it even funnier when Vance gets trounced.
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Apr 16, 2022 00:15
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:isn't this the guy that bullshitted about being a redneck in order to write a book about an idealized lifestyle that never actually existed Yeah, that book is a lot of sneering at the poor.
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Apr 16, 2022 01:06
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"I wish iowa wasn't the first state primary"  Now is my time to shine
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Apr 16, 2022 01:12
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Illinois is the most demographically average state in the country and also a solid blue stronghold where the machine still works so the party can pick whomever it wants. I see no reason why it shouldn’t be us.
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Apr 16, 2022 01:52
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Nanomashoes posted:Illinois is the most demographically average state in the country and also a solid blue stronghold where the machine still works so the party can pick whomever it wants. I see no reason why it shouldn’t be us. Illinois should get the Iowa spot so long as IL does ranked choice voting to mirror a caucus without any of the onerous time commitments It would be a fairly interesting state for the Republican primary too
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Apr 16, 2022 02:57
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Nanomashoes posted:Illinois is the most demographically average state in the country and also a solid blue stronghold where the machine still works so the party can pick whomever it wants. I see no reason why it shouldn’t be us. Politicians don't deserve to eat good food.
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Apr 16, 2022 03:04
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:https://twitter.com/TexasTribune/status/1514803786425925633 Was saying before when you're getting to the point of states actively gearing up for genocide against minorities they're whipping themselves into full on blood libel over, and the military recognises this and is actively evacuating people before the state can torture their children to death... if this isn't leadup to the next civil war, feels like the alternative is much worse.
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