(Thread IKs:
Platystemon)
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I feel like a Corsi Rosenthal box could have saved that woman's life
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Apr 15, 2022 11:22
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| # ? May 27, 2024 22:07 |
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Also MAID might be better than her hanging herself but the absolute bleakest part of the article is when the physician mentions a bunch of other people with MCS had since contacted them to apply for MAID after hearing her story, and you realize it's now government sponsored eugenics e: there, summarized the discussion for the new page Cup Runneth Over has issued a correction as of 11:34 on Apr 15, 2022 |
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Apr 15, 2022 11:30
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I feel like a Corsi Rosenthal box could have saved that woman's life A high merv filter can remove smoke and other fine particles, but some chemicals and odours won't be cleared out by a mechanical filter. That's why many commercial air filters have an activated carbon prefilter. Activated carbon can capture individual molecules that won't be caught by a furnace filter or even a hepa filter. Since activated carbon has to be changed more often it probably wouldn't make sense to add it to the corsi cube, but it shouldn't be hard to rig up a second fan with activated carbon filter media. I don't know, it feels like people with this disorder have to have thought about air filters. Especially the last 2 years when everyone was talking about air stuff.
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Apr 15, 2022 12:52
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tokin opposition posted:The Giver is an utopian fiction now this forced me to pronounce this as οὐτόπος instead of εὖτόπος , so congrats on messing up my brain for the morning 30.5 Days posted:The random elected officials who blew her off did not sit down with an actuary to decide if it was worth giving her a house, or making the salvation army's life miserable until they renovated her, room, or just letting her jump the line for subsidized housing or the half dozen other things they could have done. The entire governmental system of the western world is on autopilot and politicians don't even pretend to be in the business of making peoples' lives better. Asking institutions to do things for people who need it, or really making any decision at all beyond moving paperwork from IN to OUT is going to be met with the same response her team of doctors was: gaping silence. it is worth noting that this is not the output of any cultural norm peculiar to the west, unless you consider faith in complex bureaucracies to be a peculiarly western phenomena. the base constructive principles of a bureaucracy - compartmentalized roles, policies & their implementation, legalism, fungibility of bureaucrats, rigid hierarchy - make that outcome inevitable, even desirable. as stalin said, bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality, and any functional bureaucracy is going to be a bunch of people who have to set aside their human feelings about cases to instead prioritize if the paperwork was filed correctly, living with faith that the rules & the process are more important than their own judgment. to have a bureaucracy that does not function in that way is to have a totally nonfunctional bureaucracy
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Apr 15, 2022 14:09
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Tulip posted:as stalin said, bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality, and any functional bureaucracy is going to be a bunch of people who have to set aside their human feelings about cases to instead prioritize if the paperwork was filed correctly, living with faith that the rules & the process are more important than their own judgment. to have a bureaucracy that does not function in that way is to have a totally nonfunctional bureaucracy stalin was wrong about that, and capitalism proves it every day, through towering city blocks of bank-men who have the ears of prime ministers; million-headed armies of nations and the love of your own mother. et cetera.
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Apr 15, 2022 14:21
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Facebook Aunt posted:A high merv filter can remove smoke and other fine particles, but some chemicals and odours won't be cleared out by a mechanical filter. That's why many commercial air filters have an activated carbon prefilter. Activated carbon can capture individual molecules that won't be caught by a furnace filter or even a hepa filter. Since activated carbon has to be changed more often it probably wouldn't make sense to add it to the corsi cube, but it shouldn't be hard to rig up a second fan with activated carbon filter media. I think medical science has a long way to go on this stuff. I had some professional contact with a group of "toxic mold" sufferers, and they're clearly going through something, but they can't really get answers from doctors and eventually get dismissed as malingering or insane. And for some of them, it most definitely is psychosomatic, and they don't help themselves by deciding it must be mold, but it's a big group of people and they're generally preyed upon by quacks and snake oil salesmen rather than helped by doctors.
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Apr 15, 2022 14:55
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Facebook Aunt posted:A high merv filter can remove smoke and other fine particles, but some chemicals and odours won't be cleared out by a mechanical filter. That's why many commercial air filters have an activated carbon prefilter. Activated carbon can capture individual molecules that won't be caught by a furnace filter or even a hepa filter. Since activated carbon has to be changed more often it probably wouldn't make sense to add it to the corsi cube, but it shouldn't be hard to rig up a second fan with activated carbon filter media. MCS is almost certainly psychosomatic, studies show that sufferers cannot distinguish between actual chemical exposure and placebo.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:13
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Lazyhound posted:MCS is almost certainly psychosomatic, studies show that sufferers cannot distinguish between actual chemical exposure and placebo. Getting your airways irritated by smoke isn't. Go ahead and say the silent part out loud, you're fooling nobody.
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Apr 15, 2022 21:21
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It being psychosomatic would change the appropriate treatment, but wouldn't change the pain and suffering she felt. I don't know if it's psychosomatic or physiological, but one is not more "real" than the other. (although people will often use psychosomatic pejoratively, but I will given posters here the benefit of the doubt, until they prove otherwise)
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Apr 15, 2022 23:07
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https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_radsn9bW2z1r0uzl6.mp4
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Apr 16, 2022 00:48
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aww someones got the tippy tappies
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Apr 16, 2022 00:52
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It being psychosomatic would change the appropriate treatment, but wouldn't change the pain and suffering she felt.
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Apr 16, 2022 02:00
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It being psychosomatic would change the appropriate treatment, but wouldn't change the pain and suffering she felt. It could be both. There are lots of people who have some sensitivities. It would be easy to extrapolate all your problems to whatever trace smells you encounter. Examples:
It's easy to imagine a person having a few common sensitivities and a tendency toward hypochondria deciding "chemicals" are the root of all evil and going from there. Then the scent of someone using Mr. Clean in the next unit over throws you into a tailspin because it is "chemicals" and must be hurting you. That causes a panic attack. She knows absolutely that it isn't all in her head because there are some physical symptoms. In which case her housing provider couldn't really help her. They sealed off all the vents in her unit at her request, but it wasn't enough. It seems like nothing they can do will be enough. They can't build her an all-glass Magneto prison or a chip fabrication clean room, and if they could it probably still wouldn't be enough if the problem is partly psychological.
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Apr 16, 2022 02:36
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Facebook Aunt posted:In which case her housing provider couldn't really help her. They sealed off all the vents in her unit at her request, but it wasn't enough. It seems like nothing they can do will be enough. They can't build her an all-glass Magneto prison or a chip fabrication clean room, and if they could it probably still wouldn't be enough if the problem is partly psychological. She and the doctors certainly didn't think the housing provider had done everything they could: quote:Letters she wrote said that indoor cigarette and pot smoking increased, sending fumes through her Scarborough apartment building’s ventilation system. More chemical cleaners were used in the hallways that worsened her symptoms. She confined herself to her bedroom -- or “dungeon,” as she called it -- for most of the pandemic, sealing the vents to keep cigarette and pot smoke from wafting into her unit. wanting a room where you get air conditioning/heating and also don't have to have other people's smoke in it, isn't exactly an "all-glass Magneto prison"
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Apr 16, 2022 03:32
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Trabisnikof posted:She and the doctors certainly didn't think the housing provider had done everything they could: A space heater should have been easy enough, but how do you get air conditioning without bringing in contaminated air?
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Apr 16, 2022 03:47
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Facebook Aunt posted:A space heater should have been easy enough, but how do you get air conditioning without bringing in contaminated air? With an air conditioner? They exchange heat, not air. Residential air conditioners do not intentionally introduce outdoor air. Air exchange is incidental and happens because the home is not hermetically sealed, albeit sometimes aided by the A/C creating negative pressure.
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Apr 16, 2022 03:53
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Yeah I wonder what was up with her unit that they couldn't open a window and mount an air conditioner in it. Then again it was Salvation Army sooooo
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Apr 16, 2022 06:02
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Milo and POTUS posted:United States is p much the model the world is gonna take probably just letting you know now Given the climate situation, I'd say the model the world is going to take in the future will probably be much, much worse then the current United States healthcare system.
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Apr 16, 2022 06:27
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Yeah I wonder what was up with her unit that they couldn't open a window and mount an air conditioner in it.
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Apr 16, 2022 08:26
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cowboy
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FFT posted:it's entirely possible that she was living in an apartment with no windows that's illegal in ontario
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Apr 16, 2022 08:40
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Tulip posted:it is worth noting that this is not the output of any cultural norm peculiar to the west, unless you consider faith in complex bureaucracies to be a peculiarly western phenomena. the base constructive principles of a bureaucracy - compartmentalized roles, policies & their implementation, legalism, fungibility of bureaucrats, rigid hierarchy - make that outcome inevitable, even desirable. as stalin said, bureaucracy is the price we pay for impartiality, and any functional bureaucracy is going to be a bunch of people who have to set aside their human feelings about cases to instead prioritize if the paperwork was filed correctly, living with faith that the rules & the process are more important than their own judgment. to have a bureaucracy that does not function in that way is to have a totally nonfunctional bureaucracy Bureaucracies also have key figures empowered with the ability to redirect the machine according to their own judgment, within certain constraints. This goes all the way up to, in anglophone countries, seated representatives (as opposed to list-based MPs) whose entire reason for existing is to do exactly this for their constituents. One could argue that these figures are particularly necessary in capitalist bureaucracies, since the goal of the government is to keep things from getting too bleak without actually pursuing the goal of decommodifying needs, which by definition requires a human touch.
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Apr 16, 2022 10:08
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Rutibex posted:that's illegal in ontario What about windows you can't open? That's what I was thinking. That or they were barred
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Apr 16, 2022 10:54
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Cup Runneth Over posted:What about windows you can't open? That's what I was thinking. That or they were barred i *think* that's a fire code violation but i haven't lived out that way in years so i'm not positive
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Apr 16, 2022 11:28
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Cup Runneth Over posted:What about windows you can't open? That's what I was thinking. That or they were barred bedrooms (hopefully) universally need two exits, one is often a window. the specifics will depend on the fire code
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Apr 16, 2022 13:35
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30.5 Days posted:Bureaucracies also have key figures empowered with the ability to redirect the machine according to their own judgment, within certain constraints. This goes all the way up to, in anglophone countries, seated representatives (as opposed to list-based MPs) whose entire reason for existing is to do exactly this for their constituents. One could argue that these figures are particularly necessary in capitalist bureaucracies, since the goal of the government is to keep things from getting too bleak without actually pursuing the goal of decommodifying needs, which by definition requires a human touch. What I find interesting about this is that, in ideal modeling, the human touch is fundamental to bureaucracy. It is a basic constitutive element: one framing of bureaucracy is that it is a machine to ensure that expert humans get into contact with problems within their domain. If you are not using the domain expertise of the bureaucrats, you're functionally not using the bureaucracy. This runs into a practical snag very quickly. A more fundamental aspect of bureaucracy is transparency & accountability: if a decision is made, it is trivial to figure out who made the decision, which in turn means it is trivial to figure out who made a mistake. So far there have only been capitalist bureaucracies, so it may be a factor of capitalism, but the material interest of a bureaucrat is first and foremost to maintain their position, and the theory is that the desire to maintain this position would drive people to simply "do a good job" but in practice that is much harder and less effective than undermining the accountability of the system. The dominant method for doing this is to push for policies so comprehensive that nobody can possibly be held responsible for any decision making - that is to say, the experts are removing their own human touch in order to preserve their own human lives. In any event, there absolutely are political appointees in charge of overseeing the bureaucracy while not being a part of it. I fight with some fairly frequently. They generally lose, because they have at most a few years experience and a handful of staff going up against thousands of people with decades of experience in shirking, evading, weaseling, sandbagging, and other valuable techniques to keep your job easy. Perhaps more devastatingly however, most of the executives come from that same bureaucracy and do not hold its dysfunctions to be abnormal or even undesirable. e: what I'm trying to get at is that modern bureaucracies are already a form of runaway AI
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Apr 16, 2022 14:03
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quote:We have already created multiple AIs in the form of corporations. These AIs maximize the goal of profit over all else, and they are wreaking havoc on our modern society. Intelligence is an emergent property of any complex enough system.
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Apr 16, 2022 14:15
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thats right.
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Apr 16, 2022 16:27
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yea 100%, i just like to reiterate that the form is more generic than corporations: the same zombifying, paper-clip-collecting feedback loops happen without the specifics of being a for-profit corporation, they just collect bouncy balls instead of paper clips
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Apr 16, 2022 16:35
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i love my inconscious AI-overlord incorporating my flesh and my dreams to serve a purpose greater than myself, i only wish myy miind diiidnttt dieeeeeeeeee........
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Apr 16, 2022 16:37
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lollontee posted:i love my inconscious AI-overlord incorporating my flesh and my dreams to serve a purpose greater than myself, i only wish myy miind diiidnttt dieeeeeeeeee........ individual egos are just a cosmic illusion anyway who cares
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Apr 16, 2022 16:40
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Lazyhound posted:MCS is almost certainly psychosomatic, studies show that sufferers cannot distinguish between actual chemical exposure and placebo. Go gently caress yourself. There are plenty of people who can enter anaphylactic shock from stuff like perfume it's just that people who aren't affected by it don't give a poo poo, and so we keep adding it to everything.
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Apr 16, 2022 17:03
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morgellons isn’t a real illness but people who think they have it are still suffering due to their delusions and need help and treatment yeah.  cause might be something other than what the person thinks but the effect making them need help is still there and all that
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Apr 16, 2022 17:09
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MCS is a “idk” diagnosis and probably covers a lot of different stuff. it’s definitely used for something “real” and autoimmune/allergies adjacent. a researcher is quoted in that article.
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Apr 16, 2022 17:13
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Look guys these fakers can't actually feel the cancer these chemicals are almost assuredly giving them (and you and me)
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Apr 16, 2022 17:13
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Tulip posted:yea 100%, i just like to reiterate that the form is more generic than corporations: the same zombifying, paper-clip-collecting feedback loops happen without the specifics of being a for-profit corporation, they just collect bouncy balls instead of paper clips i wouldn't say it's generic. rather, the modern second-order cybernetic corporation is the product of the older, first-order cybernetic mode of organization.
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Apr 16, 2022 17:16
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IAMKOREA posted:Look guys these fakers can't actually feel the cancer these chemicals are almost assuredly giving them (and you and me) inventing an ethical neo eugenics to eliminate people sensitive to microplastics to prevent their suffering
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Apr 16, 2022 17:29
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Tulip posted:So far there have only been capitalist bureaucracies Could you explain this? Bureaucracy certainly existed before capitalism, under the USSR, today in China,etc.
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Apr 16, 2022 21:45
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Zodium posted:i wouldn't say it's generic. rather, the modern second-order cybernetic corporation is the product of the older, first-order cybernetic mode of organization. Could you clarify what you mean by first and second order?
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Apr 16, 2022 22:23
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Yeah I wonder what was up with her unit that they couldn't open a window and mount an air conditioner in it. I wonder if their reasoning was "If we give this woman a heater and A/C unit then we'll have to give everyone a heater and A/C unit."
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Apr 16, 2022 22:25
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30.5 Days posted:Could you explain this? Bureaucracy certainly existed before capitalism, under the USSR, today in China,etc. Both of those were capitalist though.
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Apr 16, 2022 22:44
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