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so wait the twelve are just ancients? i did the alliance raid quests in a bit of a haze and it was over before i knew it so im kind of lost
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Apr 17, 2022 10:30
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It's hypothesizing, the story so far is that they're not primals but they can't reveal their nature but you'll learn in time (i.e. 6.5 will be when they really get all the details).
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Apr 17, 2022 10:36
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Zeruel posted:so wait the twelve are just ancients? i did the alliance raid quests in a bit of a haze and it was over before i knew it so im kind of lost Not confirmed but Omphalos having very Greek architecture certainly implies it.
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Apr 17, 2022 10:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:Elidibus isn't part of the 12 because he's Zodiark, that leaves 13 (and Nald'thal counts for two). Honestly I don't think the VAs actually work as a functional clue. Not only because people keep reporting hearing entirely different voice actors for every single one of the Twelve (with your call of Azeyma=Y'shtola I've now seen no consensus on any one of them), but also because if it were true, it would have to be accurate for every single language.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:06
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Cleretic posted:Which would theoretically scan with Azeyma having Venat's VA; she was the last member of an 'ideal', not-fuckup Convocation. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the big reveal and final boss of the series is going to be a Zodiark(FF12)-esque hidden outcast member of the pantheon, that would line up with the final mystery gate on Omphalos too
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Apr 17, 2022 11:17
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That would kind of track with the whole 'we're not primals and aren't siphoning aether or really founded on the belief of people' if there's a hidden one that no one knows about. Tactics also had Zodiark as a hidden 13th zodiac right? While I'm here can someone remind me of Emet's role as Hades before the fall of the ancients? I get the metaphore during Shadowbringers, being one of the keepers of all of the lost ascians souls (wrt the zodiark plan) and maybe one of the most active in trying to revive them. But all I remember from Elpis is that he's said to have vast amounts of aether and is really really strong and capable with creation magics. Was there a more clear 'keeper of the underworld' metaphore for him at that time?
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Apr 17, 2022 11:25
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FunkyFjord posted:That would kind of track with the whole 'we're not primals and aren't siphoning aether or really founded on the belief of people' if there's a hidden one that no one knows about. Tactics also had Zodiark as a hidden 13th zodiac right? To be Emet-Selch explicitly requires the ability to see and interact with souls, specifically those that have passed on into the Ancient understanding of the Afterlife but also still those amongst the living. Hythlodaeus can see them, and was offered the role because he has the strongest soulsight in a generation. But he refuses and suggests Hades, whose Soulsight is nearly as strong, and is otherwise the strongest Mage around and thus more capable of the combat requirements (if any) of the role of Emet-Selch. It's Hades role as Emet-Selch, not the other way around. Hades is the Ancient, Emet-Selch is his position on the Convocation of Fourteen.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:41
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He was given the office that takes care of any problems with the lifestream because he was the second best at seeing souls. Hythlodaeus was the best but wasn't confident enough he could perform the rest of the duties because he wasn't very good at anything else so he passed it up.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:43
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Veev posted:He was given the office that takes care of any problems with the lifestream because he was the second best at seeing souls. Hythlodaeus was the best but wasn't confident enough he could perform the rest of the duties because he wasn't very good at anything else so he passed it up. That actually supports that Nald could be based of Hyth: discerning souls and their "individual lives" as the short story says seems like an attribute of a god who judges the living... Also it would fit Nald being cheery while Thal is grumpy  Personally I think the Twelve are probably what Azem was doing during the final days and he based some on his friends. Of course we won't recognize them all because they probably had friends who were never relevant to the story.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:46
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Hades skillset also is partially why Zodiark exists at all. Lahabrea designed it, but Hades had to build it. Nobody else would be able to manipulate that many souls alongside creation magic.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:53
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Hythlo was also "Chief of the Bureau of the Architect, the leader of the organization responsible for approving new concepts for creatures and other magical constructs to be released into the world" which sort of sounds like someone responsible for the living and transactions, divine bureaucrat (Nald).
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Apr 17, 2022 11:58
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Lord_Magmar posted:To be Emet-Selch explicitly requires the ability to see and interact with souls, specifically those that have passed on into the Ancient understanding of the Afterlife but also still those amongst the living. Hythlodaeus can see them, and was offered the role because he has the strongest soulsight in a generation. But he refuses and suggests Hades, whose Soulsight is nearly as strong, and is otherwise the strongest Mage around and thus more capable of the combat requirements (if any) of the role of Emet-Selch. Okay thanks, thats pretty much what I remembered I just forgot about Hades' sight part. I do remember his name being Hades and his appointed role being Emet-Selch, they've all got their Greek names I was talking more aboit the writing than in game names/titles. I was only remembering him having good aether sight and better skill with manipulating that aether, while he insisted Hythlodaeus had much better sight but not the same skill. Was just forgetting the souls part, though of course that only makes sense in the setting.
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Apr 17, 2022 11:59
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No Dignity posted:I wouldn't be at all surprised if the big reveal and final boss of the series is going to be a Zodiark(FF12)-esque hidden outcast member of the pantheon, that would line up with the final mystery gate on Omphalos too Oschon is probably the last boss, because so far we have followed order of deities and how they're paired in constellations. Might be also penultimate, if they pair some gods or move someone to solo duty. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Apr 17, 2022 |
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Apr 17, 2022 12:33
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Personally I think the Twelve are probably what Azem was doing during the final days and he based some on his friends. Of course we won't recognize them all because they probably had friends who were never relevant to the story. This seems plausible to me, since it’d let them truly wrap up all the hanging ancient plotlines rather than have one hanging around when we get to 7.x.
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Apr 17, 2022 13:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:However apparently the VA that people are hearing is Y'shtola (Azeyma), Estinien (Rhalgr), Fandaniel (Thal) and G'raha (Nald). Which also sort of works towards the friends of Azem thing in three cases, in that they're now voiced by the same voices as the friends of the Warrior of Light. What sort of gives me pause about this theory is that although the VAs are the same, the character relations implied by this don't match up very well to their shared Twelve member. I can sort of understand that it might be for gender reasons (Estinien can't really be Halone, for example), but surely they would hint harder at this idea with more thematic choices for each character, right? Azeyma is probably the opposite of what I would think of if I were to think of Y'shtola.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:10
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what if they shared voice actors simply because they(squeenix) didn't want to pay for new voice actors
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Apr 17, 2022 14:12
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SirSamVimes posted:Not confirmed but Omphalos having very Greek architecture certainly implies it. The Greek names imply it but ancient architecture is pretty Art Deco, not classical
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Apr 17, 2022 14:14
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I think they share voice actors because they were in the booth recording their lines for MSQ already and so you might as well go “hey while you’re here, can we get some takes of these battle lines” instead of paying a whole other person for five lines. Anyway I think Azeyma is voiced by Y’shtola’s VA mostly because Azeyma sounds like a non-Scottish Titania to my ears.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:21
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Badger of Basra posted:The Greek names imply it but ancient architecture is pretty Art Deco, not classical Yeah, but the weird spiral spikes are straight out of Amaurot.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:29
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Azeyma definitely sounded like Y'Shtola to me
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Apr 17, 2022 14:31
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Is there anything more sequence breaking in this game than doing the HW quests/Allied Beast Tribe quest after the ShB patches? If just throws me off so much to have to talk to Tiamat.
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Apr 17, 2022 14:57
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Kazy posted:Is there anything more sequence breaking in this game than doing the HW quests/Allied Beast Tribe quest after the ShB patches? If just throws me off so much to have to talk to Tiamat. Doing DRG job quests and having to track down this traiter called Estinien is pretty sequence breaking
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Apr 17, 2022 15:37
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Qwertycoatl posted:Doing DRG job quests and having to track down this traiter called Estinien is pretty sequence breaking If they weren't cowards, they'd make the DRG quests MSQ mandatory like they did Crystal Tower /j
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Apr 17, 2022 15:38
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AncientSpark posted:What sort of gives me pause about this theory is that although the VAs are the same, the character relations implied by this don't match up very well to their shared Twelve member. I can sort of understand that it might be for gender reasons (Estinien can't really be Halone, for example), but surely they would hint harder at this idea with more thematic choices for each character, right? Azeyma is probably the opposite of what I would think of if I were to think of Y'shtola. The idea is less they share the same "roles" in the friend group and more that they just were Azem's friends in general and so the gods based on Azem's ancient friends have voices matching our modern friends. Again though, it's not like anyone has actually determined who the voice actors are. I just think the gods are likely Azem's final act and based on Azem's friends (Venat, Hades/Hythlodaeus). Badger of Basra posted:The Greek names imply it but ancient architecture is pretty Art Deco, not classical Ehhhh, Elpis itself is sort of a mix isn't it. Omphalos is basically the other half of Elpis, the heavenly greek sky island.
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Apr 17, 2022 15:57
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I'm still hedging my bets on them being extraterrestrials.
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Apr 17, 2022 15:59
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Dwesa posted:Likely none of the Twelve will be hosed up, unlike Convocation they don't want to do mass sacrifices or genocides, Twelve might be Convocation's 'ideal' counterpart, what Convocation was supposed to be before it was twisted. That reminds me: in Final Fantasy XII, each of the Summons had a counterpart. Said counterparts were given the same names used for the Convocation of Fourteen.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:02
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i think they are reaaaaallly old auspices from early post-sundering history who loosely based themselves on partially-remembered and mythologized tales of the convocation
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Apr 17, 2022 16:04
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Itd be funny if they were just actually Primals and the WoL is just stupid enough to take them at their word.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:09
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They are Namazu wearing people suits
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Apr 17, 2022 16:11
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maybe they witnessed the whole astral/umbral cycle and dedicated themselves to making sure mankind always bounces back, but want to avoid directly interfering as god-rulers because that could be disastrous maybe one of the super super early calamities we know jack poo poo about was caused by that??? and now they have all sorts of rules about interfering out of fear of it happening again...???
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Apr 17, 2022 16:11
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Farg posted:maybe they witnessed the whole astral/umbral cycle and dedicated themselves to making sure mankind always bounces back, but want to avoid directly interfering as god-rulers because that could be disastrous The calamity of wind did supposedly occur due to the warring of the gods and the Moogles had to flee the godly lands for the world below. Although that is also conflated with a story about the start of the Dragonsong War.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:13
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Farg posted:i think they are reaaaaallly old auspices from early post-sundering history who loosely based themselves on partially-remembered and mythologized tales of the convocation
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Apr 17, 2022 16:18
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Did we get an animal form for Nald'thal? No, right? Just curious because it would presumably provide some insight into the nature of the Nald/Thal duality.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:20
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Valentin posted:Did we get an animal form for Nald'thal? No, right? Just curious because it would presumably provide some insight into the nature of the Nald/Thal duality. We didn’t see animal forms for azeyma or nald’thal, although maybe they could be one of the critters in omphalos and we just don’t know it
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Apr 17, 2022 16:35
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The 12 being idealized forms of the convocation would be a neat bit of thematic rhyming with ff12 where they get their names from. The ascians are all named after the Scion of Light good half of the eidolons/summons from 12. Here since they're all darkness powered and assholes it makes sense we'd get good guy mirrors of them, being they based on them or Venat's crew or just modeled off em.
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Apr 17, 2022 16:54
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We have the animals on Omphalos, we know this is an epilogue to the arc we just went through, and the Omphalus itself is smaller Elpis with Amaurot window dressing. I think it's cool they gave us just the right amount to really get some good theories going!
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Apr 17, 2022 17:29
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Lord_Magmar posted:The calamity of wind did supposedly occur due to the warring of the gods and the Moogles had to flee the godly lands for the world below. Although that is also conflated with a story about the start of the Dragonsong War. i dont think the timeline works out for the calamity of wind to be dragonsong related, if that wars been going on for 1000 years or so, thats not nearly old enough to be first calamity
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Apr 17, 2022 17:30
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imo an epilogue to the previous arc could just as easily mean they were also extraterrestrials who were fleeing Meteon's song and made an accord with Hydaelyn. Graha going over what is known about the twelve, including that worship didn't take off until the 3rd astral era, stood out to me. it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if the ancients were involved, but I also think if they're suppose to be analogs of the convocation that'd be lame.
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Apr 17, 2022 18:22
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Farg posted:i dont think the timeline works out for the calamity of wind to be dragonsong related, if that wars been going on for 1000 years or so, thats not nearly old enough to be first calamity I think he was saying that the legend was conflating events that were thousands of years apart, not that the events were actually contemporary.
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Apr 17, 2022 18:25
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the real reason you know the twelve are related to the ancients is because their little houses look like the lopporit ones actually that’s probably evidence specifically for them being related to venat somehow
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Apr 17, 2022 18:27
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