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There isn’t really a level of stupid for the Russians that isn’t immediately unbelievable at this point. The whole thing has been a farce. If someone had declared in early Feb “the Russians are going to abandon a bunch of vehicles because they ran out of gas, and Ukrainian farmers will steal so many of them that it will become a meme”, everyone else here would’ve laughed at you. That’s even before they got forced back out of Kyiv, or lost their loving flagship after it got distracted by a drone.
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Apr 18, 2022 20:20
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all the gung ho-ness and tradition doesnt matter if the ship and sailors are unprepared, as the remnants of the Bonhomme Richard can attest
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Apr 18, 2022 20:22
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Lviv got hit with several cruise missiles today. https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1516084114679644169?t=ycSBuFY3T8pT7eG6M3Gc9A&s=19
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Apr 18, 2022 20:36
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Stultus Maximus posted:This stood out to me as a Ship Person: But then the big question becomes: how the hell did they lose ~87% of the ship's crew? If they indeed managed to abandon ship with the lifeboats, what happened to everyone? I admit my marine expertise is limited to reading way too many books about World War I and World War II naval conflicts, but those numbers sound like catastrophic, dramatic and very sudden loss of ship losses.
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Apr 18, 2022 20:43
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Nah, the Triangle factory was great about securing all the doors. 
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Apr 18, 2022 20:47
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:But then the big question becomes: how the hell did they lose ~87% of the ship's crew? If they indeed managed to abandon ship with the lifeboats, what happened to everyone? I admit my marine expertise is limited to reading way too many books about World War I and World War II naval conflicts, but those numbers sound like catastrophic, dramatic and very sudden loss of ship losses. If they went in the piss without rafts they're likely dead. And given what a cluster the rest of it seems to have been, I have serious doubts that the rafts were at capacity.
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Apr 18, 2022 20:51
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:But then the big question becomes: how the hell did they lose ~87% of the ship's crew? If they indeed managed to abandon ship with the lifeboats, what happened to everyone? I admit my marine expertise is limited to reading way too many books about World War I and World War II naval conflicts, but those numbers sound like catastrophic, dramatic and very sudden loss of ship losses. Abandoning a ship is a tricky thing to do in the best of times, when the ship is on fire and exploding, it becomes more complicated. Also some people probably got got in the initial explosions.
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Apr 18, 2022 20:52
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Nuclear Tourist posted:Lviv got hit with several cruise missiles today. Legit targets or just terror bombing?
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Apr 18, 2022 20:53
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Murgos posted:Legit targets or just terror bombing? 6 of one, half dozen of the other from Russia's pov probably.
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Apr 18, 2022 20:55
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A.o.D. posted:That's nuts. How the hell could they not know the invasion was coming? I mean, the French didn't know because they were only seeing what they wanted to, but how the hell could a Russian agency with a vital role to perform not know that a war was on the day planner? Very well connected russians had literally no idea the invasion was coming. consensus was that russia would have to be beyond loving stupid to invade Ukraine because it was obviously going to be, at best, a slog and that the west would try to cripple Russia with sanctions. Even when Putin was doing his whole song and dance with getting defense officials to declare on TV that they needed to invade well connected russians still were getting no signals it was actually happening. This is significant because for russian stuff you can generally just talk to people who have some connection to decision makers and get a sense of what is likely to actually happen, but not this time. Incidentally I assume that's how China also got blindsided. Basically the decision to invade was apparently made and kept within a literal handful of people at the top of the Russian heirarchy.
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Apr 18, 2022 21:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Basically the decision to invade was apparently made and kept within a literal handful of people at the top of the Russian heirarchy. *and also Kadyrov!
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Apr 18, 2022 21:15
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psydude posted:Isn't it standard practice in the US Navy (and I'm guessing most NATO navies) for every sailor to be proficient in damage control? I'm guessing just like compartmentalization, this is a 20th century lesson that the Russian Navy never bothered to learn. Yes, as mentioned upthread, the US Navy learned from the Forrestal conflagration that you needed everyone to do DC. Even shipriders and embarked folks needed the basics if things went down. Would I have trusted any of us to do major work, no; would I have trusted any of us to take orders as part of a team with ship's company leading us, like 50-50
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Apr 18, 2022 21:17
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Icon Of Sin posted:*and also Kadyrov! Yeah a literal handful, not a hyperbole handful.
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Apr 18, 2022 21:41
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Murgos posted:Legit targets or just terror bombing? Doing some google sleuthing, there’s only one “Monodoctor” in Lviv. Blue is where the video is taken from, looking west. And counting between when one missile hits to when the sound reaches its 2ish seconds, so 500-1000m. So the likely target was whatever this is circled in yellow.  I can’t say I’m at all familiar with what a Ukrainian military facility looks like, but if I saw a group of long buildings with grass like that in North America I’d assume military barracks. It’s not labeled at all in Google or Bing, so your guess is as good as mine (or likely better). The further south (left) hit probably hit those cranes(?) antennas(?) just to the SW of the yellow circle and the one to the right probably was after the roundhouse on the north edge of the photo. Or maybe that candy factory? That seems on brand for the Russians these days. Seems weird to me, but the missiles seem to be coming from the south? St_Ides fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 18, 2022 21:43
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bennyfactor posted:The story goes at least that they were polishing brass watertight doors to the point where they were worn down by the polishing enough that they weren't watertight. Which is absolute balls because watertight doors in that era were not made of brass, they were made of the same steel the rest of the hull was made of. It's a bizarre anecdote that keeps turning up because some credulous journalist wrote it down once and equally credulous historians who've never been in a boat bigger than a canoe believed it.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:02
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Which is absolute balls because watertight doors in that era were not made of brass, they were made of the same steel the rest of the hull was made of. It's a bizarre anecdote that keeps turning up because some credulous journalist wrote it down once and equally credulous historians who've never been in a boat bigger than a canoe believed it. I've heard the real danger is excessive painting and sanding of the ship's drywall. Apparently the paper backing can come right off.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:05
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Uncle Enzo posted:I've heard the real danger is excessive painting and sanding of the ship's drywall. Apparently the paper backing can come right off. Only the load bearing drywall, though.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:17
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Which is absolute balls because watertight doors in that era were not made of brass, they were made of the same steel the rest of the hull was made of. It's a bizarre anecdote that keeps turning up because some credulous journalist wrote it down once and equally credulous historians who've never been in a boat bigger than a canoe believed it. Hence my bafflement.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:31
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Hence my bafflement. Good on ya.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:35
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Hence my bafflement. I thought we were talking about hatches not baffles.
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Apr 18, 2022 22:43
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Would it be possible if there was some repainting done that messed up the seal?
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Apr 18, 2022 22:47
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Soylent Pudding posted:Going to toss out their that a lot of these cybercrime gangs aren't so much Russian as Russian speaking and have had members from other eastern bloc states. The Conti ransomware gang was one of the first to publicly declare support for Russia. Except it had Ukrainian members who promptly leaked their entire source code, infrastructure map, and years worth of internal communications. The Mandiant and Dragos writeups on the new ICS malware toolkit are worth reading, it's pretty neat and it sounds like someone has built a Metasploit-like tool for ICS attacks. I want a copy real bad because it'd be a great learning/teaching tool  https://www.mandiant.com/resources/incontroller-state-sponsored-ics-tool https://www.dragos.com/blog/industry-news/chernovite-pipedream-malware-targeting-industrial-control-systems/
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Apr 18, 2022 23:28
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Kesper North posted:The Mandiant and Dragos writeups on the new ICS malware toolkit are worth reading, it's pretty neat and it sounds like someone has built a Metasploit-like tool for ICS attacks. I want a copy real bad because it'd be a great learning/teaching tool Does Metasploit not have ICS modules built in? Never had the need to dig all that deep into what comes pre-loaded.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:06
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Painting seals will gently caress them up, but yeah this is probably a myth.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:11
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Kesper North posted:The Mandiant and Dragos writeups on the new ICS malware toolkit are worth reading, it's pretty neat and it sounds like someone has built a Metasploit-like tool for ICS attacks. I want a copy real bad because it'd be a great learning/teaching tool Just gonna throw out there that OMRON specifically plugs "programmable from the edge!" as a key selling feature of their latest line of PLCs.  Fortunately I've never seen any of their kit in the wild, the world runs on Siemens S7.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:22
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actually Omron and Schneider are both best known for making honest-to-god contact & coil mechanical relays and they should stick to that.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:29
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shame on an IGA posted:Just gonna throw out there that OMRON specifically plugs "programmable from the edge!" as a key selling feature of their latest line of PLCs. I've used omron equipment quite a bit in the Shuttle Program.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:48
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shame on an IGA posted:Just gonna throw out there that OMRON specifically plugs "programmable from the edge!" as a key selling feature of their latest line of PLCs. Ahhh, Siemens: https://drivesncontrols.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/6736/Siemens_PLC_vulnerability_is_cyber-attackers_92__91holy_grail_92.html This was last year, but I know very few organizations that actually upgraded their PLCs after this was announced. I should note that this vulnerability was at least discovered by a firm Siemens retained to improve their products (Claroty), so they are at least trying - but Siemens has by far the most known vulns against its PLCs compared to any other vendor. (This is more a reflection of Siemens ubiquity than inherent product flaws.) It's also possible that a Siemens module exists for PIPEDREAM already which exploits this, given PIPEDREAM's modular design, but it wasn't in the sample obtained by CISA.
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Apr 19, 2022 00:58
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Defenestrategy posted:Does Metasploit not have ICS modules built in? Never had the need to dig all that deep into what comes pre-loaded. it does, but it sounds like this tool has some interesting capabilities that aren't in metasploit. admittedly that's just based on the relatively surface level information in the mandiant/dragos briefings, maybe it's literally ripped from metasploit code for all i know
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Apr 19, 2022 01:01
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Which is absolute balls because watertight doors in that era were not made of brass, they were made of the same steel the rest of the hull was made of. It's a bizarre anecdote that keeps turning up because some credulous journalist wrote it down once and equally credulous historians who've never been in a boat bigger than a canoe believed it. Brass scuttles and port holes are common as gently caress. They probably didn’t know the difference between those and a door. And yes if you polish the every living gently caress out of them you could develop gaps. Not sure what the gasket material would have been but I guarantee you it was uglier than brass so I’d bet it got left off for beauty.
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Apr 19, 2022 01:07
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shame on an IGA posted:actually Omron and Schneider are both best known for making honest-to-god contact & coil mechanical relays and they should stick to that. would love for Scheider to get out of the GIS business and sell this poo poo I have to use to somebody that can make it work St_Ides posted:Doing some google sleuthing, there’s only one “Monodoctor” in Lviv. I use GAIAGPS for some things and their Satellite with Labels layer marks that as "Military Area". I imagine the Russians thing that base and the adjacent railyard are strategic targets. 
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Apr 19, 2022 01:10
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highme posted:would love for Scheider to get out of the GIS business and sell this poo poo I have to use to somebody that can make it work To be fair, railyards are strategic targets.
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Apr 19, 2022 01:19
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A.o.D. posted:To be fair, railyards are strategic targets. Just ask the people of Dresden!
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Apr 19, 2022 02:04
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The eternal grain of salt notwithstanding, https://www.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/comments/u6duy0/russian_man_who_was_enthusiastic_about_the/ quote:[Russian Man Who Was Enthusiastic About the Invasion Can't Believe His Own Son is Missing After Being Deployed on the Moskva as a Conscript quote:Dmitry Shkrebets 12 Mar at 0:22 quote:Dmitry Shkrebets today at 17:04
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Apr 19, 2022 03:28
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GD_American posted:The eternal grain of salt notwithstanding, Dude's kid did not make it, Ukrainian forces identified him among the dead apparently, either via personal effects or something else, but apparently he's listed on the website the Ukrainian government set up to publish names and fates of the missing personnel from the Russian forces.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:40
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Curious how the hell Ukraine has casualty reports from the Moskva, beyond signal intercepts I guess.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:46
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GD_American posted:Curious how the hell Ukraine has casualty reports from the Moskva, beyond signal intercepts I guess. Russia has not been doing the best job of defending against signals intercepts by the Ukrainiains, so it's plausible that the kid was identified as KIA internally to the Russian MoD but they haven't released that info to the family, and likely won't until they have no choice but to acknowledge it, especially since conscripts aren't even supposed to be outside the borders of Russia.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:03
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GD_American posted:Curious how the hell Ukraine has casualty reports from the Moskva, beyond signal intercepts I guess. Ukraine seems to have a better handle on what's happening inside Russia than the Russians do.
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Apr 19, 2022 05:10
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yeah there was that one 3 second video of the Mo where someone goes "wtf are you doing?!" IDK how sigint or comms work but there must be a lot more leaks going around than that
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Apr 19, 2022 05:29
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 cryptography guy turned MSNBC talking head turned Old Snake as portrayed by Richard Roundtreehttps://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1516218372324741127 Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 05:29
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