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LinkesAuge posted:I mean that's the real problem with the scene. Why do the characters act like they are in the 20th century? That interaction makes more sense in a contemporary setting but it is once again just an awkward example of the writers being so in your face about what they are doing. Making it a thing that Adira even has to have this as "big reveal" or teach Stamets about pronouns is the bad part. Adira can't just be transgender, it has to be a whole storyline that makes it stand out and is a "crisis" situation at every point and the whole character is based on that one specific characteristic, it verges on tokenism (it's certainly the case with Gray). I don't think you meant it to be in any way transphobic but you might want to know that "transgenderism" is a common dog-whistle phrase for transphobes and it's probably best to avoid it entirely. Although, you also repeatedly referred to Adira as "he" so I'm really not sure how much benefit of the doubt to give.
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Apr 18, 2022 15:43
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There must be a malfunction in their universal translator. Ensign LinkesAuge, have your comm badge checked out. It might be damaged.
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Apr 18, 2022 16:12
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I don't think when that poster mentioned the chud subreddit about Trek they were saying we should emulate that here, but here we are. "They shouldn't even mention Adira's pronouns at all! And why aren't they doing entire stories about it?!"
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Apr 18, 2022 17:59
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McSpanky posted:Get off your loving high horse, you don't have a monopoly on the mental illness/neurodiversity experience. I've been dealing with major depression more than half of my life and I consider it far more inspirational to imagine a future where the brain is sufficiently understood that the vast majority of malfunctioning mental conditions are as easy to fix as the physical ones are than for someone to "respect my neurodiversity" by letting me wallow in misery as long as I'm not actively trying to harm myself, you arrogant rear end. Yes hello first of all neurodiversity is emphatically something that should not be seen as an illness to be cured, but also I am not saying depression/psychosis/etc is the same as neurodiversity. But its a useful touchstone for this conversation because, similarly, there are autistic characters in Star Trek - who lead happy and fulfilling lives and who are not treated as patients in need of curing, and I think t hey are arguably correct in this depiction. I'm not saying you or anyone who has experienced depressive or paranoid episodes (like me!) should be allowed to wallow in misery, I am saying that Star Trek has an established approach to how these things are managed, which implies that treatment for this stuff in the future isn't just taking a magic pill that 'rebalances the chemicals' , because something like depression is usually much more than just 'too much sad chemical' and involves behavioural stuff that you cant (and arguably shouldn't) just cure with a pill, but takes lengthy unpicking through talking therapies, counselling, and an entire societal structure that exists to support, uplift and care for its citizens. I think sci fi that goes 'take a pill to make sure you are happy' is no longer depicting a utopia. I am sorry you are struggling with serious depression. I do however think you've misinterpreted what I'm saying as suggesting people who are struggling should continue to struggle. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 18, 2022 |
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Apr 18, 2022 18:12
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I think Adira had more personal story and character development in a single 12 episode season than most TNG characters got in the entire series, and they're a minor character. From dealing with loss, integrating with a symbiote, finding family, and seeking mentors. And Gray is not even a cast member as far as I'm aware so I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be heavily featured. Even then his scenes of teaching Zora to process overwhelming sensation is great.
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Apr 18, 2022 21:04
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I think Adira had more personal story and character development in a single 12 episode season than most TNG characters got in the entire series, and they're a minor character. From dealing with loss, integrating with a symbiote, finding family, and seeking mentors. yeah, the stuff with Adira and Grey in season 4 was good, it just felt cordoned off from everything else that was happening
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Apr 18, 2022 21:20
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I can’t get over how 24th century medicine is so good that a doctor from 2024 can be handed a piece of medical equipment, point it hesitantly at the patient, and instantly cure a life-threatening ailment. Really underscores how half of Star Trek doctoring is applying 10 ccs of inaprovaline and picking the right blinky wand to wave. (The other half is extremely specialized isogenetic nanosurgery to turn a salamander back into a human.)
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Apr 19, 2022 03:10
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Picard's brain shoots out of his cranium in a liquid jet. HOLY poo poo screams Rios, HOW THE gently caress DID YOU gently caress THAT UP SO BADLY
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Apr 19, 2022 03:13
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wishgun
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Apr 19, 2022 03:25
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What'd Rios ask for, "some kind of stabilizer"? I thought for a second he was going to do some sleight of hand and press the Reset button on Picard's foot with a paperclip to make the Doc think she fixed him. Or is that what actually happened and I failed to pay attention again?
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Apr 19, 2022 03:40
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The Neural Oscillator is probably a tool that doesnt cause damage and doesn't require skill to operate. Rios was pretending it matters because he wanted an excuse to beam her on board and to eventually abduct her into the future.
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Apr 19, 2022 03:46
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CPColin posted:What'd Rios ask for, "some kind of stabilizer"? I thought for a second he was going to do some sleight of hand and press the Reset button on Picard's foot with a paperclip to make the Doc think she fixed him. Or is that what actually happened and I failed to pay attention again? He doesn't have a good robot body, he specifically requested the "already sick and dying body, except no on the brain thing I'm dying from, I hate it" option
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Apr 19, 2022 03:49
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CPColin posted:What'd Rios ask for, "some kind of stabilizer"? I thought for a second he was going to do some sleight of hand and press the Reset button on Picard's foot with a paperclip to make the Doc think she fixed him. Or is that what actually happened and I failed to pay attention again? No, he asked for a neural stabilizer directly, making extensive use of his Starfleet first aid training to vaguely identify the problem (unstable neurons of some sort) and pick the tool that sounds like it solves anything in that broad category of problems.
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Apr 19, 2022 03:59
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LinkesAuge posted:I mean that's the real problem with the scene. Why do the characters act like they are in the 20th century? That interaction makes more sense in a contemporary setting but it is once again just an awkward example of the writers being so in your face about what they are doing. You could ask that about a lot of Star Trek. In TOS, why do Kirk and McCoy have a debate about the morality of providing arms to one side in a planetary war that's a blatant Vietnam analogy? In TNG, why does Tasha lecture Wesley about the dangers of drug addiction? In Voyager, why is there an episode where Seven suffers from false memory syndrome? In Enterprise, why is the third season about Earth being attacked by religious fanatics? These shows are set in the future, but are written by people in the present for people in the present, so they focus on issues that are important now, like, in this case, the question of a character's gender and self-identification,
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Apr 19, 2022 04:11
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I just cued it back up and Rios's line is, "Raffi, I need some kind of, uh, stabilizer, stat. It's for Picard... It's for his brain." Even worse than I remembered lol
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Apr 19, 2022 04:12
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Oh good thing they busses Picard's failing brain to a clinic in the valley for an episode then.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:21
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CPColin posted:I thought for a second he was going to do some sleight of hand and press the Reset button on Picard's foot with a paperclip to make the Doc think she fixed him. I am so tickled by this idea. If they had actually done something like that I would have laughed myself off my chair.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:24
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blastron posted:I can’t get over how 24th century medicine is so good that a doctor from 2024 can be handed a piece of medical equipment, point it hesitantly at the patient, and instantly cure a life-threatening ailment. Really underscores how half of Star Trek doctoring is applying 10 ccs of inaprovaline and picking the right blinky wand to wave. (The other half is extremely specialized isogenetic nanosurgery to turn a salamander back into a human.) In the future of the Federation computer technology is so advanced that everything is automated, it’s effectively Idiocracy with nobody actually knowing what they’re doing, everyone just presses big glowing buttons or talks to the computer which understands context well enough to handle just about anything. Chief O’Brien is a one of a kind asset who knows the order you have to swap the little cards around that fill every terminal, the future equivalent of unplugging your router and plugging it back in.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:41
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CPColin posted:I just cued it back up and Rios's line is, "Raffi, I need some kind of, uh, stabilizer, stat. It's for Picard... It's for his brain." Even worse than I remembered lol Ah, thus drawing on Seven’s knowledge from delivering medical supplies as part of the Fenris Rangers to identify the correct, uh, stabilizer, for Picard. For his brain. Unrelatedly, I looked up the episode on Memory Alpha and discovered another one of its extremely specific quirks: a stubborn insistence on referring to characters by their last names, regardless of whether or not they’re used on screen at all. (Did you know that Raffi’s last name is Musiker? I didn’t!) This is right up there with their policy of showing characters at their latest point in their personal timeline, which results in Spock’s being from JJTrek, Icheb’s being of his grisly murder, and Tom Paris’s being literally a cartoon.
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Apr 19, 2022 04:44
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Apr 19, 2022 04:49
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blastron posted:Unrelatedly, I looked up the episode on Memory Alpha and discovered another one of its extremely specific quirks: a stubborn insistence on referring to characters by their last names, regardless of whether or not they’re used on screen at all. (Did you know that Raffi’s last name is Musiker? I didn’t!) This is right up there with their policy of showing characters at their latest point in their personal timeline, which results in Spock’s being from JJTrek, Icheb’s being of his grisly murder, and Tom Paris’s being literally a cartoon.
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Apr 19, 2022 09:06
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lol
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Apr 19, 2022 10:54
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blastron posted:Ah, thus drawing on Seven’s knowledge from delivering medical supplies as part of the Fenris Rangers to identify the correct, uh, stabilizer, for Picard. For his brain. Lmao
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Apr 19, 2022 11:04
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I'm trying not to shitpost about Picard all the time but I was just thinking about the concept of this Watcher character. I'm really kind of stuck on the fact that it seems they went this direction for no other purpose than they wanted some callback to a character from the Old Scientists era, and they needed a reason for Laris-not-Laris to appear so Picard can make goo-goo eyes and probably have some kind of emotional scene (?) in the last few episodes. I didn't watch a lot of TOS so maybe I'm missing some nuance around the concept of this Watcher thing, but I'm just struggling to see what value she is actually providing to Renee. It's a watch-an-important-person-from-afar type of situation which is, ok I guess, but that seems so incredibly limited if all she's doing is monitoring and not actually protecting. I'm going to be absurd for the sake of comedy but like, Renee slips in the tub or falls down a flight of stairs and not-Laris has a GTA style "WASTED" screen pop up on her mobile. So yeah, maybe I just missed the whole point of what a Watcher is supposed to do, in a key moment of dialogue and my confusion could be resolved by a quick trip to memory-alpha but this has been going around 6am me's head. I think I've given Picard more pre-Thursday thought than is deserved 
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Apr 19, 2022 11:42
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DaveKap posted:That certainly is one way to prevent discussion wars between people who think Kirk should be represented by the episode where he fights the Gorn vs the movie where he saves a whale. Holy poo poo, you're right. That has to be why they do it. It's so stupid it has to be true.
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Apr 19, 2022 11:52
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I think the charitable assumption is that there's some symmetry going on where Picard teaches Laris the value of interfering in other people's lives based on information you gained by illicitly spying on them, and the in the future Picard is going to realise that Laris was doing this to him and be grateful. Its messy and if you think about it too much the ethics of what is going on is not good. There's also the question of what omnipitent power is empowering/directing the watchers to follow people who have a destiny that's important to the timeline, which Picard has directly called out once but then the show kinda forgot it and in a good show you would expect that it is far too late to be introducing entirely new entities like that but this show is entirely comfortable throwing new stuff into the mix all the way through. e: like, if you tried to wrap up the plot based just on what's present in the story so far, then for the villain you need to find an entity with knowledge over space and time, who likes to observe and has a link to laris, and who is motivated to be opposed to Q in some way and could plausibly be involved in a scheme to depower him. That's Guinan. Guinan is the obvious villian and puppeteer behind the events of the show. They're obviously not going to do that. The villain will be someone we meet in the last 5 minutes of episode 9. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 11:54
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Alchenar posted:the future Picard is going to realise that Laris was doing this to him This would be kind of a cool twist I guess e: Plotwise, I guess. Not ethically.
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Apr 19, 2022 12:02
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Alchenar posted:They're obviously not going to do that. The villain will be someone we meet in the last 5 minutes of episode 9.
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Apr 19, 2022 12:20
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some kinda jackal posted:e: Plotwise, I guess. Not ethically. "Hi, I've watched you every moment of your life and have used that information to make you fall in love with me. Uh, for your own good, naturally." The real horrifying bit would be all the creeps crawling out from under the floorboards to say how romantic it was. Aww, it's just like in my favourite movie - Twilight.
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Apr 19, 2022 12:47
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Uh yeah I feel I need to clarify, the cool part MIGHT be the “future Laris is also a watcher” thing, not the “I’ve been stalking you and now we’re in love” thing 
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Apr 19, 2022 12:52
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Picard will turn out to be Laris's grandfather, thereby answering the question she posed to him in the beginning.
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Apr 19, 2022 13:14
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Tom Paris was always a cartoon to me
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Apr 19, 2022 13:44
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some kinda jackal posted:So yeah, maybe I just missed the whole point of what a Watcher is supposed to do, in a key moment of dialogue and my confusion could be resolved by a quick trip to memory-alpha but this has been going around 6am me's head. In Assignment Earth, Gary Seven was an agent of this mysterious advanced alien race who was worried that humans would destroy themselves because their technology was advancing faster than their societal maturity. So Seven and other agents had the job of monitoring the earth and stopping threats to peace.
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Apr 19, 2022 15:03
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DaveKap posted:That certainly is one way to prevent discussion wars between people who think Kirk should be represented by the episode where he fights the Gorn vs the movie where he saves a whale. So is Kirk's picture him lying dead at the Vasquez rocks then?
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Apr 19, 2022 16:31
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Payndz posted:God, that just gave me a PTSD flashback to the final season of Castle, where the villainous mastermind behind the ongoing plot arc was revealed as... some random guy who appeared in exactly one previous episode. "No, really, we planned it all in advance, we didn't just scrabble about at the last minute to find any character who might fit the bill, honest!" The Mentalist did this too with Red John
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Apr 19, 2022 19:01
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It would be brave and awesome to make Guinan the secret villain.
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Apr 19, 2022 19:28
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Professor Beetus posted:So is Kirk's picture him lying dead at the Vasquez rocks then? Almost, it's just him in Generations
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Apr 19, 2022 19:33
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Now that everyone is an android it's going to be revealed that the villain is actually Jean-Lore Picard
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Apr 19, 2022 19:37
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What is that space station-looking thing in the upper left of the third picture? Did they make that up just for the pinball machine lol? Epicurius posted:In Assignment Earth, Gary Seven was an agent of this mysterious advanced alien race who was worried that humans would destroy themselves because their technology was advancing faster than their societal maturity. So Seven and other agents had the job of monitoring the earth and stopping threats to peace. Actually, Gary Seven deliberately hosed with a test missile, making it go off course and threatening some city or whatever, then detonating it in the nick of time, I guess for the purpose of giving us a good scare. Also, yeah, said test missile was carrying a live warhead, but I guess they get a pass for that because otherwise it wouldn't have been nearly as dramatic (or as scary to the foolish 1960s humans).
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Apr 19, 2022 20:25
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Jean Luc Picard: "The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules. It is a philosophy, and a very correct one. History has proved again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less-developed civilization, no matter how well intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous." Laris: so anyway, I'm posted in your prewarp planet to guide it's history. jLp: cool
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Apr 19, 2022 20:31
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