|
What does Joseph Smith need with a starship?
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Shitstorm Trooper posted:I invited the mormon fellas into my home once, got them some ice water, and gradually steered the conversation to Star Trek. Those were some hot takes. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
Mormons are the biggest sci fi/fantasy nerds in the world. This is a p well-known cultural thing. Arnold being a huge Star Wars lord of the rings fan in Book of Mormon is an explicit reference to that. It’s why they have Orson Scott card and battlestar galactica
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:So I'm going with the Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear. Which is a bit funny given that it's like a meme. But I need some levity anyway. a "meme", as originally defined, is simply a "unit of culture". so according to that original definition there are all kinds of prayers, songs, meditations, and other forms of religious practice (and nonreligious life) that absolutely function as memes due to the way internet culture developed we tend to think of memes as funny images, phrases, videos, soundbites, etc. usually coming from pop culture or the internet itself but the way the work and move through society isn't really any different from the way "units of culture" always have. its just faster and more recent. it might seem superficially silly to recite a litany against fear that came from a scifi novel written in the 1960's versus one from a religious text written in the 5th century ce, but as long as its meaningful for you and it works, there's no real difference at all in terms of what you are doing. BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Mormons are the biggest sci fi/fantasy nerds in the world. scientology and church of all worlds were both founded by scifi authors, so they've got some competition Earwicker fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 17:28
|
|
|
When I'm having a bit of a spiral I use the very short words from the beginning of the daily prayers. Oh God, come to my aid; oh Lord, make haste to help me. The rhythm of it works well for me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 17:33
|
|
|
They were on my side in the Janeway (correct) vs Picard (wrong) argument and really took a shine to Star Trek V. It was really a fun afternoon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 18:15
|
|
|
Here's a Forbes article arguing that the Litany against fear has actually been vindicated by neuroscience and research into fear management over the decades. It's actually a form of mindfulness. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisonescalante/2021/10/25/why-dunes-litany-against-fear-is-good-psychological-advice/
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 19:28
|
|
|
Mantra is/can be very powerful as long as you personally apply meaning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
Shitstorm Trooper posted:They were on my side in the Janeway (correct) vs Picard (wrong) argument and really took a shine to Star Trek V. It was really a fun afternoon. What did they think of Sisko tho
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
I had never seen DS9 at the time, didn't come up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 21:07
|
|
|
DS9 is great except the Prophets because Star Trek's need for a religion to be mostly a signifier ("This species is religious!") with very little substance and for it to be literally true ("The Prophets not only physically exist in a place they can be contacted but basically do exactly what the religion says") for it to be considered valid kinda sucks. That's my hot religion star-trek merge take.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 21:09
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:DS9 is great except the Prophets because Star Trek's need for a religion to be mostly a signifier ("This species is religious!") with very little substance and for it to be literally true ("The Prophets not only physically exist in a place they can be contacted but basically do exactly what the religion says") for it to be considered valid kinda sucks. Idk that DS9 takes that opinion. It has several kinds of religious belief shown and it doesn't consider any of them 'invalid', I don't think. I'm gonna stop here before I write three paragraphs on 'Treachery, Faith and the Great River' and why the Vorta are the most tragic thing in Trek
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 21:23
|
|
|
You are correct, when I think about it. I suppose my opinion is colored some by my frustration with Bajoran religion despite it being so central to the story (and despite really enjoying the Bajorans otherwise). E: You are particularly spot on about the Vorta; they are a genuine triumph of DS9's writing. Look I know this is the religion thread but this is related! It's about portrayal of religions in a major work of sci-fi I swear. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Apr 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 21:48
|
|
|
I am very much in favor of DS9 talk in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 23:01
|
|
|
Keromaru5 posted:I am very much in favor of DS9 talk in this thread. I'm in the process of watching the other 1990s space station show for the first time. And I have to say, Babylon 5 has even more to say on the topic of religion than Deep Space Nine does. Here, have a discussion on faith between a couple of Minbari and a Catholic monk, from the episode Passing Through Gethsemane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJfbSPZ9wu4
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 23:19
|
|
|
I’m on season 4 of DS9. Been about 10 years since I last rewatched it. Anyways to stay on thread topic: Hanuman Jayanti was a success. We also celebrated Tomb Cleaning Day by laying flowers on the burial sites of our deceased chickens, and cleaning our family altar which also hosts 3 boxes with ashes of other deceased chickens. Next year we’ve decided to make the trek out to my family’s cemetery which is 3 hours out in west Texas and do a proper cleaning of everyone’s tombstones and burial sites.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2022 23:23
|
|
|
AngryRobotsInc posted:I'm not Christian, but I always found Psalm 23 to be a fairly effective, non-gory mantra. An excuse to cross post psalmsposting!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
Went to go watch Bergman's Persona turns out I downloaded the version with Spanish subs somehow. So I went to the backup which was 1981's possession. Which I somehow have the director commentary and not the actual videos audio. So I go to poo poo post to soothe my tortured soul only to find Better Call Saul is back. How can one deny Providence when something so astonishing happens.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
There was some completely credulous VICE article talking about how there was a piece of the true cross on that Russian warship that sank and now it might be lost forever if no one thought to grab it as the ship was going down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 05:01
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:OK, My (atheist) partner has gotten extremely good mileage out of the Litany. I am definitely convinced it works, and I'm glad it does for you too!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 05:30
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:There was some completely credulous VICE article talking about how there was a piece of the true cross on that Russian warship that sank and now it might be lost forever if no one thought to grab it as the ship was going down.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 08:09
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Jesuit attack sub Look at this fine username just sitting there
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 10:28
|
|
|
Let's say you were in an argument on social media, and it got stuck in your head and you wanted to forget about it. Is there a good Litany/Mantra for that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2022 10:43
|
|
|
I think mindfulness seems to be about keeping your head and allowing, not just fear, but every kind of thought and judgement to pass over and through you without direct resistance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2022 12:13
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:Let's say you were in an argument on social media, and it got stuck in your head and you wanted to forget about it. Is there a good Litany/Mantra for that? this argument is not me. i am not this argument. this opinion is not me. i am not this opinion. etc. Prurient Squid posted:I think mindfulness seems to be about keeping your head and allowing, not just fear, but every kind of thought and judgement to pass over and through you without direct resistance. thats an excellent way to do it but there's more to it than that. you should also generally investigate your thoughts and figure out whats causing them, what they make you do, are there situations that make them more likely or less likely etc. ideally you eventually learn to appreciate even your negative emotions as having some purpose and being part of being alive. BIG FLUFFY DOG fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:I think mindfulness seems to be about keeping your head and allowing, not just fear, but every kind of thought and judgement to pass over and through you without direct resistance. If I’m angry it is because I think something that ought not to be is, and letting it pass is not acting to change it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:The Heart Sutra is a bit too nihilistic and I want to stay grounded. There is a related discussion happening in the Buddhism thread. It's important to keep in mind that in Buddhism (and in physics, actually) emptiness and nothingness are not the same thing, and a Buddhist practice should not support a nihilistic world view. When it's said that all phenomena are empty, including our bodies and our consciousness, this is not to say that those things do not exist. It is to say that those things do not have a separate self-existence, and they cannot exist by themselves alone. To meditate on emptiness is to recognize and more deeply appreciate the interconnectedness and intrinsic relationship all things have to each other. I think because emptiness has a negative connotation in language is why Thich Nhat Hanh coined the term interbeing to better describe this concept. JcDent posted:What does Joseph Smith need with a starship? Deep space colonization in case there's no protomolocule ring network to leapfrog onto.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2022 19:49
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOqU9TYFFoJcDent posted:What does Joseph Smith need with a starship? Why did Jefferson?
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 05:07
|
|
|
Is the Buddhist discussion above related to the observation of Heraclitus that no man ever steps into the same river twice? Or maybe Hegel's claim that everything is always turning into its opposite and then back again without halting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 12:25
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:Is the Buddhist discussion above related to the observation of Heraclitus that no man ever steps into the same river twice? Or maybe Hegel's claim that everything is always turning into its opposite and then back again without halting. It’s similar. Buddhist emptiness is really in opposition to the the Platonist idea of essential natures and believes that all things including concepts and the mental formations used to categorize and process the world are created by their environment and causes rather than a hidden realm where the “true self” or ideal whatever lives.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 15:38
|
|
|
Caufman posted:There is a related discussion happening in the Buddhism thread. It's important to keep in mind that in Buddhism (and in physics, actually) emptiness and nothingness are not the same thing, and a Buddhist practice should not support a nihilistic world view. When it's said that all phenomena are empty, including our bodies and our consciousness, this is not to say that those things do not exist. It is to say that those things do not have a separate self-existence, and they cannot exist by themselves alone. To meditate on emptiness is to recognize and more deeply appreciate the interconnectedness and intrinsic relationship all things have to each other. I think because emptiness has a negative connotation in language is why Thich Nhat Hanh coined the term interbeing to better describe this concept.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
I saw something pretty neat on Facebook. It basically said 'We love to use a few verses to justify flipping tables because Jesus did it. But where did he flip tables? In his father's house. Not some sinner's house, not some prostitute's house... If you want to flip tables start at home'
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
Prurient Squid posted:Is the Buddhist discussion above related to the observation of Heraclitus that no man ever steps into the same river twice? Or maybe Hegel's claim that everything is always turning into its opposite and then back again without halting. Not sure about the Hegelian claim, but Heraclitus's observation sounds a lot like the teaching on impermanence. (It's also a teaching in Buddhism that in one teaching, you can see the other teaching as well. So in impermanence, you can see non-self, and in non-self, you can see impermanence.) I also think impermanence can also be a response to the Ship of Theseus question. From the moment the ship was christened, it was already changing, on a microscopic level, in its position in spacetime. With the insight of impermanence and non-self, we see that when we name something, whether its a river or a boat, we are creating a convention rather than identifying something's true, true nature. Conventions can be very useful in day-to-day life, but they should be let go of when they're no longer useful. On the other hand, this insight can be taken too far. There's a very amusing anecdote that Br. Phap Dung likes to recall about a time a visitor to Plum Village who came without shoes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtJUh2ZGbNU&t=2566s It's a good reminder that Buddhism teaches the middle way, especially when living with the insight of ultimate reality but still being in the day-to-day world with other people.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2022 22:38
|
|
|
Caufman posted:Not sure about the Hegelian claim, but Heraclitus's observation sounds a lot like the teaching on impermanence. (It's also a teaching in Buddhism that in one teaching, you can see the other teaching as well. So in impermanence, you can see non-self, and in non-self, you can see impermanence.) I also think impermanence can also be a response to the Ship of Theseus question. From the moment the ship was christened, it was already changing, on a microscopic level, in its position in spacetime. With the insight of impermanence and non-self, we see that when we name something, whether its a river or a boat, we are creating a convention rather than identifying something's true, true nature. Conventions can be very useful in day-to-day life, but they should be let go of when they're no longer useful. it's somewhat similar i think to the idea of the eight worldly concerns that honor and shame, material gain and material loss, praise and criticism, pleasure and pain are all two sides of the same coin and each one inevitably co-exists with the other and so people's attempts to attract only the good ones while avoiding the bad ones and basing their happiness on doing so is idiotic and futile.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 03:11
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:I saw something pretty neat on Facebook. It basically said 'We love to use a few verses to justify flipping tables because Jesus did it. But where did he flip tables? In his father's house. Not some sinner's house, not some prostitute's house... If you want to flip tables start at home' I never thought about it that way before, but it's absolutely right. I love how loving snarky he was with the Pharisees right in synagogue and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 15:11
|
|
|
That's also Gospel of John Jesus. When I said above about they'll have trouble crucifying my boy this time round I was joking but actually he literally gives himself up to crucifixion telling Judas to do the needful and saying "it is finished".
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2022 18:05
|
|
|
Hello, religion thread friends. I have been turning something over in my mind for a few months now, and while doing my periodic catch-up reading I realized I would be perfectly within my bounds to ask for some thoughts and input here! My faith is exceptionally important to me, and while I do not typically bring my personal beliefs up without direct inquiry I also usually do not have an issue with answering questions asked of me. One day last year my boss inquired what it was about this specific faith system that had kept it so central to my life for 20+ years. I answered with the short version: my religion is centered on truth, balance, order, honor, and righteous action, as a singular concept, and the ways in which it is demonstrated and expected of its followers is a manner that aligns directly with my heart and what is important to me. Both in my personal conduct and in how I conduct myself with others and influence the world around me. This is fairly oversimplified, but this oversimplification -- order, balance, etc -- was the answer I gave and it felt truthful and appropriate. I should clarify that my boss and I have a good relationship, but she is very much a Woman Of Science who can rarely rise above her kneejerk instinct to treat everything like debate club  She countered my explanation of my faith by saying, "Well isn't that every religion?"Setting aside whether or not that statement is factually true -- I truly just had very little idea what to do with this reaction! I chuckled and said, "Sure, maybe, but this one fits with me"; and conversation moved on. Religious debate just really isn't my forte, due partly to being in a place of ignorance with most faiths but mostly just because I don't feel it's my (personal) place to argue over the minutiae of beliefs that bring other people comfort. What on earth might I have said to politely defang that comment? That level of reductionism just struck such a wrong chord with me that -- obviously! -- it still comes to mind months later. I didn't like it all that much in relation to my personal faith, but I'm used to that being misunderstood/misinterpreted. Throwing "every" religion into a great big stinky heap together was what really needled me, and just saying "not EVERY religion!" is both a poor defense in general and also leaves the distasteful implication that she was correct to a degree. I try to learn from social gaffes and stumbles for any hypothetical "next time", but somehow I consistently draw a blank on this one. Should I have just said "Well that's hideously reductive" or... what? Is there anything I might have said that was persuasive and insightful? Maybe not to her, specifically, since I know her well enough to know dropping it was my most prudent recourse; but what might one of you have said in response to that kind of take?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 18:14
|
|
|
What a strange question for one's boss to ask!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
 boundaries have never been her especial strong suit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Here’s a concept that might be useful. Faith can be thought of as our “ultimate concern for”. We can have different objects of ultimate concern for each of us. As Christian my ultimate concern is Jesus as the Christ. Somebody else would have a different ultimate concern. So we all can all have ultimate concerns, but each object of ultimate concern is different and it is incorrect to conflate them. We each have to think and talk to each other about them, and sometimes we participate in communities that share our ultimate concern and the symbols we use to talk about it (and that’s what religions are). A book on this is Dynamics of Faith it’s a short read in plain language too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2022 19:14
|
|