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Comrade Blyatlov posted:If they went in the piss without rafts they're likely dead. And given what a cluster the rest of it seems to have been, I have serious doubts that the rafts were at capacity. Just lol imagining the water survival discipline of the Russian navy rn You know there's at least one or two boatfuls that swamped and went under.
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Apr 19, 2022 18:25
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psydude posted:Mr. Racist over here pointing out Russia's contemporary strategy of feeding individual battalion tactical groups into the meat grinder.
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Apr 19, 2022 18:26
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Some interesting commentary from Jon Parshall, co-author of Shattered Sword, on the loss of Moskva: I always liked Jon Parshall and it's cool to see him weigh in on this.
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Apr 19, 2022 19:28
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Per a European intelligence official, Russia has sent between 10,000-20,000 mercenaries to fight in the Donbas. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/19/russia-deployed-20000-mercenaries-ukraine-donbas-region quote:Russia has deployed up to 20,000 mercenaries from Syria, Libya and elsewhere in its new offensive in Ukraine’s Donbas region, sent into battle with no heavy equipment or armoured vehicles, according to a European official. At the risk of being called a racist again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF3g4Ua5e7k psydude fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 20:21
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psydude posted:Per a European intelligence official, Russia has sent between 10,000-20,000 mercenaries to fight in the Donbas. “Still has 3/4 of what they started with” Is that a whole quarter lost to wounded/KIA, or am I misreading that? 
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Apr 19, 2022 20:44
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Icon Of Sin posted:“Still has 3/4 of what they started with” "Combat power" isn't the same thing as "manpower". It's supposed to be a sum total of men, machines, etc
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Apr 19, 2022 20:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Combat power" isn't the same thing as "manpower". It's supposed to be a sum total of men, machines, etc Yeah but that snippet is worded so badly it could be talking about either one or both. Regardless 25% loss of men or combat power is bad.
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Apr 19, 2022 20:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:"Combat power" isn't the same thing as "manpower". It's supposed to be a sum total of men, machines, etc They honestly probably have less than 75% combat power. The article mentions 76 BTGs, but they started out with ~120. As ISW has pointed out, many of those BTGs have been cobbled together from the consolidated remains of units that were destroyed around Kyiv and Sumy. Imagine if you just put a bunch of random people from different units together after a month of fighting and then sent them back into the slaughter. The raw numbers alone belie a hollowed out and demoralized force. psydude fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 19, 2022 |
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Apr 19, 2022 20:58
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psydude posted:Per a European intelligence official, Russia has sent between 10,000-20,000 mercenaries to fight in the Donbas. these poor SOBs aren't gonna get their 600 buxx
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Apr 19, 2022 21:00
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Alan Smithee posted:these poor SOBs aren't gonna get their 600 buxx I wonder if we're gonna see them revolt if they suffer enough attrition turn around and start raiding russia.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:11
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Despite the rather chaotic exit from Kabul, most of us agreed that US lift command and logistics really did a fantastic job, we talked about how it would probably be a great lessons learned for the next time. Well reading about the way the US is basically the Amazon Prime now of Military Weapons for Ukraine…it seems that US transport…is still really amazing,
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Apr 19, 2022 21:27
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Defenestrategy posted:I wonder if we're gonna see them revolt if they suffer enough attrition turn around and start raiding russia. They don't have enough ammo and air power to take Donbas. Are they really going to be able to fight cold war super power Russia? 
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Apr 19, 2022 21:30
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M_Gargantua posted:They don't have enough ammo and air power to take Donbas. Are they really going to be able to fight cold war super power Russia? You don't need to be able to fight an army to turn to pillage and raid the country side for booze, food, and easy converted money. How are they gonna spend said money or return home to convert it? I dunno, but it seems as if a group of people signing up for Merc duty in Ukraine don't have the kind of long term planning needed to realize it would be difficult to make a life that way.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:37
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Defenestrategy posted:You don't need to be able to fight an army to turn to pillage and raid the country side for booze, food, and easy converted money. How are they gonna spend said money or return home to convert it? I dunno, but it seems as if a group of people signing up for Merc duty in Ukraine don't have the kind of long term planning needed to realize it would be difficult to make a life that way.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:42
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If some Wagner mercs want to sign up for some quality time in the Forever Box I’m all for it.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:50
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https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1516512124687769604?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet Not seeing anything else on this yet. Looks like it's fresh off the press.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:55
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Casimir Radon posted:If some Wagner mercs want to sign up for some quality time in the Forever Box I’m all for it. Sounds like Ukraine will get a chance to use some of those howitzers the US is sending over. quote:YOU this is ME, adjust fire, over.
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Apr 19, 2022 21:58
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Hekk, Gargantua, call for fire Sixer on post square 3994572 by 522903503 Fire for effect
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Apr 19, 2022 22:06
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Alan Smithee posted:these poor SOBs aren't gonna get their 600 buxx They were almost certainly being paid in rubles as well so... Yeah there's that.
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Apr 19, 2022 22:06
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Obviously my heart is with Ukraine here, but the thought of someone being willing to get shipped off to be fed into a meat grinder in a foreign war for like half the salary of an American retail worker is its own kind of tragedy.
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Apr 19, 2022 22:07
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Voyager I posted:Obviously my heart is with Ukraine here, but the thought of someone being willing to get shipped off to be fed into a meat grinder in a foreign war for like half the salary of an American retail worker is its own kind of tragedy. It's entirely possible to pity the poor bastards dying for Russia even as you condemn the invasion. I do it daily.
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Apr 19, 2022 22:50
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Alan Smithee posted:these poor SOBs aren't gonna get their 600 buxx They aren’t even going to get a flight home.
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Apr 19, 2022 23:09
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Murgos posted:They aren’t even going to get a flight home. Really hard to box up and transport the fine red mist someone gets turned into after getting blasted by a 155.
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Apr 19, 2022 23:14
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Icon Of Sin posted:“Main SAM radars trained fore and aft” I assume "SAM radars" refer to the fire control radars, and not the air search radar. Slava class has a dedicated radar for the S-300, and another for the SHORAD, in addition to the air search radar. But that only makes it even wierder. I could accept "target fixation on the drone" IF they were locked on the drone. But they weren't locked on anything. So the air search plot should be getting all the attention in the CIC. And then they should have detected the new track. Coming right at them. At fast subsonic speed. At low altitude. At sea. At night. At war. But if they had detected the missiles they should have locked on to _them_ with the FC radars, so they probably didn't detect them, or at least not before it was too late? It's just... a total lack of situational awareness that boggles the mind. Either that or the ships sensors and/or weapons just plain didn't work of course. Maybe the FC radars were painted stuck fore and aft 
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Apr 19, 2022 23:21
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Caconym posted:I assume "SAM radars" refer to the fire control radars, and not the air search radar. Slava class has a dedicated radar for the S-300, and another for the SHORAD, in addition to the air search radar. A wargamer does some math: https://rockymountainnavy.com/2022/04/14/moskva-burning-using-the-wargame-harpoon-v-from-admiraltytrilogy-com-to-assess-the-story/
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Apr 19, 2022 23:40
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M_Gargantua posted:Hekk, Gargantua, call for fire Sixer on post square 3994572 by 522903503 Fire for effect (Seven later.) "Hekk, Gargantua. ... Repeat."
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Apr 19, 2022 23:41
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Caconym posted:I assume "SAM radars" refer to the fire control radars, and not the air search radar. Slava class has a dedicated radar for the S-300, and another for the SHORAD, in addition to the air search radar. To be fair: Sheffield was struck in similar circumstances. NotE (NotS?) flying where there aren't any hills or trees to avoid and this time there's no pop-up for release. Knowing nothing about Russian radar, they might have been filtered as backscatter and never even presented to the operator. And even if they're not, human factors might might people dismiss it as a nuisance contact, especially if the crew is on a steady diet of morale fortifying tales of Ukrainian incompetence and technological inferiority. Or the console picked out both targets, warbled it's tone waiting for authority to fire and was blanked by comrade conscript seaman Untrained and Fatigued, II rate. IPCRESS fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 00:13
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To give the crew of the Moskva some credit, I don't think anyone knew the Ukrainians were capable of this until the missiles hit (most likely including the Ukrainians).
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Apr 20, 2022 00:18
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Voyager I posted:To give the crew of the Moskva some credit, I don't think anyone knew the Ukrainians were capable of this until the missiles hit (most likely including the Ukrainians). RULE #1 NO NOT BELIEVING IN YOURSELF edit vvvvvvv  It ain't everything they need, but it ain't loving nothing. It's stunning how little people understand that it's hard to move war poo poo when there hasn't been enough time to ramp up to support war poo poo.A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Apr 20, 2022 |
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Apr 20, 2022 00:43
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https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1516550384386555905?t=yVOHNmSoe7H-6pyby-PkQA&s=09
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Apr 20, 2022 00:50
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Apparently Canada is sending howitzers too, "heavy artillery" as per the PM and the M777 is all we have that fits. Unless they want LG1s or C3s in which case lol my dudes
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Apr 20, 2022 00:59
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IPCRESS posted:To be fair: Sheffield was struck in similar circumstances. NotE (NotS?) flying where there aren't any hills or trees to avoid and this time there's no pop-up for release. Knowing nothing about Russian radar, they might have been filtered as backscatter and never even presented to the operator. And even if they're not, human factors might might people dismiss it as a nuisance contact, especially if the crew is on a steady diet of morale fortifying tales of Ukrainian incompetence and technological inferiority. Yeah, all we have is speculation of course. As Stultus Maximus said: Stultus Maximus posted:Lol, years ago when I was in charge of writing tactical simulations for our CIC, I would always do that kind of poo poo. Drone, helicopter, small boat, then send some ASCMs from another axis. I've also done this exact scenario in a CIC simulator (as an untrained conscript), so I know it's hard. You just have a few seconds to react so poo poo has to work, both equipment and crew, to get the OODA loop fast enough. And the russians don't seem to be doing so hot in either of those departments.
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Apr 20, 2022 01:33
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A.o.D. posted:RULE #1 NO NOT BELIEVING IN YOURSELF If there's one thing Ukraine can't have too much of it's NATO-standard ammunition. Take ammo from any NATO country and throw it in any howitzer from any other NATO country. Boom done
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Apr 20, 2022 01:43
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Uncle Enzo posted:If there's one thing Ukraine can't have too much of it's NATO-standard ammunition. Take ammo from any NATO country and throw it in any howitzer from any other NATO country. Boom done Are there different variations of artillery ammo for NATO 155mm (like AP vs. HE in naval or tank guns)? If so that might also be a factor. In any case, nobody ever complains they have too much ammo for their weapons.
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Apr 20, 2022 01:53
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I've never complained I had too much ammo in a gun fight.
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Apr 20, 2022 02:02
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Caconym posted:I assume "SAM radars" refer to the fire control radars, and not the air search radar. Slava class has a dedicated radar for the S-300, and another for the SHORAD, in addition to the air search radar. It's very easy for the operators to focus on the thing they've spotted on scope. This is basic human factors stuff. Throw adrenaline on top, too. It's not just about the radar focusing it's energy, it's also potentially the person doing their equivalent.
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Apr 20, 2022 02:08
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Godholio posted:It's very easy for the operators to focus on the thing they've spotted on scope. This is basic human factors stuff. Throw adrenaline on top, too. It's not just about the radar focusing it's energy, it's also potentially the person doing their equivalent. Absolutely. It takes a lot of time and repetitions of complex air battles to have operators that effectively prioritize tasks and notice pop-up tracks. An experienced operator or especially someone de-stressed by being the evaluator/trainer will be internally screaming while a newbie or rusty crew utterly ignores the blatantly deadly track on scope because they’re looking at another track or fiddling with a radio or status report.
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Apr 20, 2022 02:11
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Godholio posted:It's very easy for the operators to focus on the thing they've spotted on scope. This is basic human factors stuff. Throw adrenaline on top, too. It's not just about the radar focusing it's energy, it's also potentially the person doing their equivalent. There's some question if they were even tracking anything other than the drone, so focused on that single target. Someone mentioned that the radars appeared to be stowed per the damage photos.
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Apr 20, 2022 02:16
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bulletsponge13 posted:I've never complained I had too much ammo in a gun fight. Also, don't forget that artillery shells make excellent IEDs. >.>
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Apr 20, 2022 02:17
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Hyrax Attack! posted:That's the correct way to watch Futurama Boo this man.
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