mandatory lesbian posted:I can name 2 polanski movies (chinatown and rosemarys baby) but i have no clue what woody allen directed or if it even had any cultural impact
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Apr 20, 2022 10:43
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That Italian Guy posted:Someone can be an influencial and capable artist and a garbage person at the same time. Applying death of the author to them can be more or less easy or problematic based on personal taste/feelings, the gravity of their offense and the visibility of their involvement in the piece of art. You can't even do Death of the Author with Woody Allen because themes of older men dating/seducing/loving underage or barely legal girls are in the vast majority of his works.
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Apr 20, 2022 11:59
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Take a poll for who actively likes Woody Allen movies, and whether they're alive or dead. Every single time i mention to my mom i cannot in good conscience watch Woody Allen movies, she gets super offended and claims mine is the attitude of a "lesser person" and that I "cannot disparage ones art due to their personal actions" My mom is quite weird at times.
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Apr 20, 2022 12:15
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Detective No. 27 posted:You can't even do Death of the Author with Woody Allen because themes of older men dating/seducing/loving underage or barely legal girls are in the vast majority of his works. Well, you can you mean, you just come to the same conclusions as if you had done research on him
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Apr 20, 2022 12:18
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Detective No. 27 posted:You can't even do Death of the Author with Woody Allen because themes of older men dating/seducing/loving underage or barely legal girls are in the vast majority of his works. Yeah Annie Hall is one of my favorite movies of all time and I think I’ve hit the point where even that one is off the table for me (and even that one has the line about 16-year-olds). Manhattan was aging poorly even before any allegations.
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Apr 20, 2022 13:59
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When I was a kid, I kept confusing Woody Harrelson with Woody Allen so when I saw Natural Born Killers, I thought, well this is pretty spot-on isn't it?
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Apr 20, 2022 14:10
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quote:I was thrown out of N.Y.U. my freshman year for cheating on my metaphysics final, you know. I looked within the soul of the boy sitting next to me. I’m ok with getting rid of Annie Hall if I can keep this one joke.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:22
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Match point is a pretty good allen movie. Interesting that he would make a movie where the protagonist must save his marriage by killing his young lover that wants to run away with him. Maybe a sign of repressed regret?
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Apr 20, 2022 14:27
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Torquemada posted:I’m ok with getting rid of Annie Hall if I can keep this one joke. Only if I get to keep the Marshall McLuhan bit.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:32
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I do feel people rush to poo poo on an authors work when they get cancelled. You see it with JK Rowling and how they always thought Harry Potter was bad. I feel like this undercuts them more than helps them because it implies things would change if they thought it was good
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Apr 20, 2022 14:33
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Baudolino posted:Match point is a pretty good allen movie. Interesting that he would make a movie where the protagonist must save his marriage by killing his young lover that wants to run away with him. Maybe a sign of repressed regret? So, Crimes and Misdemeanors with a younger cast? As for my Annie Hall Joke to Keep, I'll take Jeff Goldblum's phone call about forgetting his mantra.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:I do feel people rush to poo poo on an authors work when they get cancelled. You see it with JK Rowling and how they always thought Harry Potter was bad. I feel like this undercuts them more than helps them because it implies things would change if they thought it was good Absolutely, especially in the social media age. People think it’s an accomplishment that they never liked a guy or they “had a feeling” that [insert allegation] was coming. It’s a weird flex.
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Apr 20, 2022 14:36
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I've never heard of any of those Woody Allen movies. For a long time I thought Woody Allen was Rick Moranis and I was confused why everyone was going to bat for the honey I shrunk the kids guy but now that I know they're different people I can appreciate honey I shrunk the kids in peace.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:I do feel people rush to poo poo on an authors work when they get cancelled. You see it with JK Rowling and how they always thought Harry Potter was bad. I feel like this undercuts them more than helps them because it implies things would change if they thought it was good Kinda, but I'm not sure that HP is a great example since I there was a lot of "ugh why do people care so much about this lovely kids' book" going around even before people started catching on to the TERFy stuff.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:11
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the holy poopacy posted:Kinda, but I'm not sure that HP is a great example since I there was a lot of "ugh why do people care so much about this lovely kids' book" going around even before people started catching on to the TERFy stuff. Yeah but my point was more people tried to combine the two which I think is kind of lovely? If your taking a moral stance quality really shouldn’t be a factor
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Apr 20, 2022 15:14
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I remember Woody Allen movies being really big in the 90s.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I remember Woody Allen movies being really big in the 90s. No dude I was wrong, he wasn't in the most important movie of the 90s, Honey I shrunk the kids.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:25
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:No dude I was wrong, he wasn't in the most important movie of the 90s, Honey I shrunk the kids. 
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Apr 20, 2022 15:28
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Shrunk isn’t the word you’re looking for
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Apr 20, 2022 15:33
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Honey I Shrunk the Kids is a good movie tho When the ant died 
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Apr 20, 2022 15:34
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I loved Woody Allen movies as a kid, but I stopped watching his stuff around Radio Days, in much the same way that Prince became irrelevant to me after Lovesexy, or Bowie after Let’s Dance.
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Apr 20, 2022 15:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah but my point was more people tried to combine the two which I think is kind of lovely? People were always critical beyond the quality of the writing. Stuff like the goblins being Jewish caricatures, wizards being cool with owning a slave race, actually pretty much every character that wasn't white and British, the list goes on. The terf stuff was the tipping point that made a lot of people actually turn on Rowling, but there have been people calling all the other stuff out since day one
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Apr 20, 2022 16:33
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Kit Walker posted:People were critical beyond the quality of the writing. Stuff like the goblins being Jewish caricatures, wizards being cool with owning a slave race, actually pretty much every character that wasn't white and British, the list goes on What is frustrating is that people brought this up, were ignored because "MY CHILDHOOD", and then suddenly this is getting a tiny bit of exposure because JKR has decided to ride the TERF hobby-horse for all it's worth, only for the same people are saying "well, why didn't anyone say anything before?!"
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Apr 20, 2022 16:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What is frustrating is that people brought this up, were ignored because "MY CHILDHOOD", The people saying "My childhood" were in the main liberals who had first read the books in their 20s.
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Apr 20, 2022 16:48
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What is frustrating is that people brought this up, were ignored because "MY CHILDHOOD", and then suddenly this is getting a tiny bit of exposure because JKR has decided to ride the TERF hobby-horse for all it's worth, only for the same people are saying "well, why didn't anyone say anything before?!" Lol yeah I remember one of my asian friends, when we were children, getting mad at the books for having the literal only asian character be named "Cho Chang".
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Apr 20, 2022 16:59
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Kit Walker posted:People were always critical beyond the quality of the writing. Stuff like the goblins being Jewish caricatures, wizards being cool with owning a slave race, actually pretty much every character that wasn't white and British, the list goes on. The terf stuff was the tipping point that made a lot of people actually turn on Rowling, but there have been people calling all the other stuff out since day one There's also things like Rita Skeeter having large, manly hands with fake nails and excessive makeup that are kind of iffy by themselves, but get a big yikes once you see all the Terfery.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:05
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A lot of things went over child mes head but the characters making fun of hermoine for literally trying to free slaves was even gross to me back then
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Apr 20, 2022 17:22
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CharlestheHammer posted:I do feel people rush to poo poo on an authors work when they get cancelled. You see it with JK Rowling and how they always thought Harry Potter was bad. I feel like this undercuts them more than helps them because it implies things would change if they thought it was good in my personal life it feels like whenever something like this happens a lot of people jump out of the woodwork to say not only do they not like this person, THEY NEVER LIKED THEM, and i'm like, wait, you liked this two weeks ago, you re-watched this at my house even after i said i had already seen it, this was your halloween costume last year, and they just stone wall me. It feels so bizarre, and they act like I'm a piece of poo poo because I used to like Louis CK, even though I don't anymore. Like I was wrong for liking him back then, and it's some kind of lingering taint. Maybe some people just can't reconcile those emotions with their memory, or they don't want to feel like someone got one over on them? Or sometimes when the public tide turns and everyone starts hating a thing i already dislike , like cards against humanity. I hated that game when it was just called apples to apples cause it was dumb, and now everyone around me wants to get on their high horse about how problematic it is when they Played it ALL THE TIME for YEARS at every game night, and would brag about how they had all the expansions and the bigger and blacker box. I'm not gonna say I'm better than them, but if i wanted to giggle at people saying slurs and curse words I already had X-box live. its not about convictions or morals, its about being right.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:24
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WaywardWoodwose posted:in my personal life it feels like whenever something like this happens a lot of people jump out of the woodwork to say not only do they not like this person, THEY NEVER LIKED THEM, and i'm like, wait, you liked this two weeks ago, you re-watched this at my house even after i said i had already seen it, this was your halloween costume last year, and they just stone wall me. It feels so bizarre, and they act like I'm a piece of poo poo because I used to like Louis CK, even though I don't anymore. Like I was wrong for liking him back then, and it's some kind of lingering taint. Maybe some people just can't reconcile those emotions with their memory, or they don't want to feel like someone got one over on them? they think it's fun and it makes them feel good also they feel they have to get ahead of poo poo like that because people like that are fuckin bloodthirsty and always looking to cancel each other for not cancelling someone else hard enough
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Apr 20, 2022 17:28
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Lots of people can't separate art from the artist. Orson Scott Card was a titan of the industry for a long time, because a) He kept his politics fairly quiet and b) Everyone forgot he wrote Songmaster. Ender's Game really was that good, and the sequels were interesting, but since he was consigned to author-jail for being a weirdo all he's done is crap out more and more Ender's Game related stuff.
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Apr 20, 2022 17:51
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at the end of the day, especially online and especially here on sa, groups of people who claim they're there to talk about political issues with other like minded people are really just social cliques. a person's post rate and standing within the group is way more important than poo poo like "nuance," "intent," or "the truth." they also love to jam that report and pm button
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Apr 20, 2022 17:59
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mandatory lesbian posted:A lot of things went over child mes head but the characters making fun of hermoine for literally trying to free slaves was even gross to me back then The characters didn't just make fun of her, the author did. Hermione is by a long way the most intelligent character in the series, and we're expected to believe she named her elf emancipation movement "SPEW"? You can feel Rowling's patronising smile at the silly children, even if she didn't write it out.
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Apr 20, 2022 18:16
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I always get weirded out by the impulse to disparage the work of artists who are also monstrous pieces of poo poo. Cause it carries the unsaid that if you liked their work you'd forgive them. Polanski was a fantastic director. It also would 100% be a better world if he'd been home for the Mansons to kill.
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Apr 20, 2022 18:30
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Jedit posted:The characters didn't just make fun of her, the author did. Hermione is by a long way the most intelligent character in the series, and we're expected to believe she named her elf emancipation movement "SPEW"? You can feel Rowling's patronising smile at the silly children, even if she didn't write it out. Between that and the only house elf who agreed to take money for work was treated as a dangerous influence by the rest of the slaves, you really get a sense that JKR had strong opinions about the lower classes (probably from the very moment she got her royalty checks from the first book) It's great she decided to burn down her reputation going full on TERF, because otherwise she would've been able to skate by as a typical upper class Tory ghoul who would do everything in her influence to keep the 'wrong people' out of her field and keep her worldwide popularity.
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Apr 20, 2022 18:39
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pentyne posted:Lots of people can't separate art from the artist. I can separate the art from the artist if the art is free from the artist's taint. Orson Scott Card is a perfect example of this; he's a homophobic piece of poo poo, but the moral of Ender's Game is "Oops We Should Learn Compassion". So yes, you can absolutely separate the art from the artist with him. But when you have stuff like harry potter, where misogyny and racism are baked into the core of the writing, where entire narrative arcs are formed around people's prejudices are good, then no. You separate the artist from it and you still have a vile, hateful work.
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Apr 20, 2022 18:46
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pentyne posted:Lots of people can't separate art from the artist. Card is still influential in writing circles. Just look up the MICE quotient. And, honestly, JKR is easy mode for me because Harry Potter just wasn't that influential for me, so I can't even say I caught anything, it was just dull, and also I have nothing to defend. Ender's Game, meanwhile, I really liked as a kid. I still think it's good literature. Card is a piece of poo poo and I'd be sure to avoid getting money into his hands, because he's absolutely still supporting anti-LGBTQ causes, even though he "relented" when it came to same-sex marriage because the gays won. Joss Whedon is even worse for me, on some level. Buffy's still a big deal for me, and is literally from MY CHILDHOOD because the first few seasons came out around the time I was in high school. Beyond the critiques of the content, the fact is I'm looking at these actors and wondering how much of their performance is the way it is because of his abuse. It feels worse than just someone doing something I liked being a piece of poo poo because his being a piece of poo poo was integral to the thing I like. 
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Apr 20, 2022 18:49
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Brawnfire posted:Honey I Shrunk the Kids is a good movie tho Why did they have to do six leggy boi like that. Get him some more giant oreos, stat!
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Apr 20, 2022 19:10
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I think if you wanted to point out Potter's flaws in the modern era it's that it's a decent kid's book that was never going to stand up to be the pillar it become once people turned it into How Can I Make This The Only Lens I See The World Through. Like Star Wars, it never had the narrative integrety to support the weight people put on it. And this is coming from someone who very much thinks Star Wars is an Important Film.
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Apr 20, 2022 19:16
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Why did they have to do six leggy boi like that. I find those kind of movies interesting in retrospect because some aspects of it you expect to be exaggerations, but then something happens and you realise that it's actually realistic, like all the depictions of giant flying insects sounding like helicopters. It seems like they are just conflating two different things to give the scale context, but I had a ladybird caught in my hair once and it's panicked wing beating was right at the entrance of my ear and it LEGITIMATELY sounded like a helicopter or lawnmower. Those three objects move the air very similarly, you just normally wouldn't hear the ladybird as it's too far away for the motion of the air to reach the ear. When that same sound wave STARTS at the ear, you can no longer deny those movies aren't exaggerating for cartoonish effect, that's just how things work at that scale.
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Apr 20, 2022 19:21
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I was a huge fan of Kevin Spacey. Don't see any point lying about that. It's not on me that he's a monster, after all. I don't enjoy watching him now though.
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Apr 20, 2022 19:29
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