Star Citizen: $48,000 is only $334/month for 12 years

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: $48,000 is only $334/month for 12 years

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trucutru posted:

Decades?

Decades!

A decade of months. A dekamonth

# ? Apr 20, 2022 23:23

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# ? May 31, 2024 16:56

BitBasher: Jun 6, 2004; You've got to know the rules before you can break 'em. Otherwise, it's no fun.

Mirificus posted:

quote:
We didn't build ARPANET in a day. It took decades, and that was just for the T0 version used to connect universities and government R&D sites.

What even the gently caress? Arpanet only existed for 16 years, from 1969 to 1985. It's entire lifespan wasn't even 2 decades. It took about 3 years to be up and fully functional IIRC.

# ? Apr 20, 2022 23:27

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Do you think he just considers the modern internet as ARPANET T4 or whatever

# ? Apr 20, 2022 23:40

Kosumo: Apr 9, 2016

The July Blog was also 6 years in the making and was only T0.

# ? Apr 20, 2022 23:50

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

Taking bets on whether the narrative in the next year goes for..

Option A:
�Chris was never the sole visionary force behind the project, his purpose was to set the project in motion but it was really the failure of the rank and file of CIG, our unreasonable expectations as backers, and FUD from the goons that made it fail to really take off�

Option B:
�Chris is a dreamer and single handedly pushed the limits of what�s possible. Alas, the game failed to meet expectations because technology can�t keep up with Chris�s vision�

Option quantum:
Both simultaneously :crobear:

# ? Apr 21, 2022 00:41

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

BitBasher posted:

What even the gently caress? Arpanet only existed for 16 years, from 1969 to 1985. It's entire lifespan wasn't even 2 decades. It took about 3 years to be up and fully functional IIRC.

Fully functional? Madness! They are talking specifically about the T0 version, which took months.

But then again, it's not like the ARPANET losers were building some never-seen-before poo poo, like Star Citizen does.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 00:43

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

DaysBefore posted:

Do you think he just considers the modern internet as ARPANET T4 or whatever

Yes, the ARPANET was developed from 1969 to the launch of Facebook, when the real internet took form. You may not know but SomethingAwful is actually an DARPA experiment gone horribly awry.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 00:43

JugbandDude: Jul 19, 2016; Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun

Shine on you crazy diamond!

I remember Derek Smart said saying the game required 350 mil to be made, how we all laughed at him.

It�s hilarious to see now wrong he was. Take that, you failed, has been developer.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 00:45

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Let me login to my ARPANET account...

quote:

::

... seems to still be working properly

# ? Apr 21, 2022 00:46

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

https://giant.gfycat.com/FeistyAcrobaticHypsilophodon.mp4

# ? Apr 21, 2022 04:57

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016; Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

cmdrk posted:

Yes, the ARPANET was developed from 1969 to the launch of Facebook, when the real internet took form. You may not know but SomethingAwful is actually an DARPA experiment gone horribly awry.

Early development of ARPANET clearly started with the invention of metallurgy in chalcolithic, but it only really took off when they started building the company in 1776.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 08:09

Drakkel: May 6, 2007; IT'S LIKE I CAN TOUCH YOU!

I always like this depiction of Chris Roberts as this hopeful dreamer, wistfully daydreaming of the ultimate video game he'd make someday if only the technology could catch up to his unparalleled creative vision, which seems to forget the part where he hosed off from the game industry for like 20 years because he clearly wanted to make movies instead and only came back cause his film career was somehow even worse than his game making career.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 08:59

FishMcCool: Apr 9, 2021; lolcats are still funny; Fallen Rib

You are all forgetting that the people behind ARPANET didn't have to build up 5 companies from scratch.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 09:05

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Shazback posted:

I kind of want these people to say what a realistic timeline and budget is to complete the game...

10 more years? 5?
200 million more? 500?

They constantly day Chris is a dreamer, visionary who will at last be able to express himself to the fullest, but I don't really see where that idea comes from. Since he hit paydirt with Wing Commander ("inspired" by Star Wars) how often has he strayed from this template?

Sure, he tried milsim with strike commander, but that was a failure he never repeated. At most one can point to his role as an arm's length producer role for films where there's little evidence he was involved in anything more than financing.

Unlike other visionary developers he hasn't attempted seriously to reach out of his comfort zone... For 30 years now!

And even within his genre of predilection, the innovations this "visionary" is bringing are thin on the ground, generally technical aspects rather than gameplay or narrative aspects. Star Citizen feels to me like it has a weaker "vision" than Elite:Dangerous or No Man's Sky, and it's not even close. And I'm not even starting to compare it to games that place the emphasis on other parts of what a "Space Game" or a "Space Fantasy" are. For my money Kerbal, Outer Wilds and even smaller projects like FTL are bringing so much more to the table than Star Citizen is promising, in a fraction of the time and effort.

But no, the faithful concierges will continue to wax lyrical that Chris is a visionary, despite their game being about as by-the-numbers as possible. Buy an Idris.

Part of being a visionary means making sure something meets your expectations as a visionary.

Pretty sure the only time CR played his game was like 8 years ago.

He's not envisioning anything except getting paid for minimal delivery, where his participation is nebulous at best.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 11:44

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016; Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

"Visionary" that does not see his visions become reality is just delusional "idea guy"

# ? Apr 21, 2022 11:48

Kosumo: Apr 9, 2016

Chris Roberts is full of poo poo, if not over flowing with it .... he totally sniffs his own farts and thinks they smell like the best french perfume.

He has no understanding of the modern game design, and still thinks that 'graphics' is the most important part of video games.

It's really sad that he has taken so much money from people based on lies.

Just how much of other peoples money did he spend to do motion capture with Hollywood stars that many are now pasted their 'five minutes of fame' - and putting his wife in amoungst them!

Really, one of the most scummy people in the industry.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 12:49

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

Mirificus posted:

You can have a game that's well made, made quickly, or made cheaply. But you can only pick two. We chose "Good and cheap" and that's what we're getting, which means it will take time.

So putting aside that this adage doesn't apply very well to video games (time and cost pretty much scale together in video games), this doesn't make much sense.

Even the faithful know that it hasn't been quick, that's pretty clear. But where is this guy getting "cheap" from? Going by how you calculate budgets Star Citizen is very arguably the most expensive video game ever made and inarguably in the top 10.
It's objectively not quick or cheap. Obviously "well made" is a bit of a sticking point.

It would've made more sense for the theoretical triangle to be well made-cheap-innovative. It's still none of those things but at least you've got a chance.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 14:07

Sandweed: Sep 7, 2006; All your friends are me.

Now that covid is over do you think they will be starting up the backer dinners again? The entire thing was so funny and I've missed stuff like that from CIG.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 14:33

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Sandweed posted:

Now that covid is over do you think they will be starting up the backer dinners again? The entire thing was so funny and I've missed stuff like that from CIG.

No, that brings attention to the project and CIG has already figured out that the less noise they make the better.

No more dinners, letters from the chairman, actual citizencons, etc.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 15:02

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

Sandweed posted:

Now that covid is over do you think they will be starting up the backer dinners again? The entire thing was so funny and I've missed stuff like that from CIG.

depends on how much they can charge for mashed potatoes. the backers want extra 'tates!

# ? Apr 21, 2022 15:05

Tippis: Mar 21, 2008; It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Fidelitious posted:

So putting aside that this adage doesn't apply very well to video games (time and cost pretty much scale together in video games), this doesn't make much sense.

Even the faithful know that it hasn't been quick, that's pretty clear. But where is this guy getting "cheap" from? Going by how you calculate budgets Star Citizen is very arguably the most expensive video game ever made and inarguably in the top 10.
It's objectively not quick or cheap. Obviously "well made" is a bit of a sticking point.

It would've made more sense for the theoretical triangle to be well made-cheap-innovative. It's still none of those things but at least you've got a chance.

The real innovation here is that CIG created a new triangle:

Made slowly, made expensively, made poorly � pick three.

�and the funny part is that they managed to make it look cheaply and hastily slapped together, in spite of that.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 15:17

FishMcCool: Apr 9, 2021; lolcats are still funny; Fallen Rib

cmdrk posted:

depends on how much they can charge for mashed potatoes. the backers want extra 'tates!

Those backers spent a lot of money and they can feel a little too entitled, amirite?

# ? Apr 21, 2022 15:56

Time_pants: Jun 25, 2012; Now sauntering to the ring, please welcome the lackadaisical style of the man who is always doing something...

Sandweed posted:

Now that covid is over

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

# ? Apr 21, 2022 17:40

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

A cloud engineer explains Server Meshing posted:

I try my best to explain Server Meshing, based on my experience and understanding :smile:
What are your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsXPl6hxdGM

quote:

I think, once this project is done, they can even license their system to other developers to allow them to create new MMO worlds, unachievable before.

quote:

That can't be allowed. Otherwise UE5 will have competition, and all the EPIC fan boys will lose their minds that anyone would decide to use the God Engine of Unreal. :P

quote:

They love to tout that Nanite tech is so great, yes it's good for making cinematics, but not useful for actual gameplay.

quote:

I'm starting to think UE5 is going usurp CIG for "wall paper and trailer" rendering. I guy in my game group talks almost non-stop about how cool UE5 is.... but its always just tech demos, and isolated applications. Which is ironic, because he gives SC poo poo for not proving the engine looks good running a game; yet UE5 is still at least a year away from having a game that proves it works in practical applications. I have fun being a skeptical poo poo back to him about it.

I don't think he realizes the hypocrisy, because he dicks around in the UE Devkit; and somehow that "proves" its as good as EPIC markets it.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 18:13

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Time_pants posted:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Wait, I thought that was the joke ...like no non-chuds really believe that do they?

# ? Apr 21, 2022 18:29

Mellow_: Sep 13, 2010

Mirificus posted:

A cloud engineer explains Server Meshing

lol

watched the video and it's loving hilarious.

so many concerns just handwaved away.

the mythical replication layer.

Mellow_ fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 21, 2022

# ? Apr 21, 2022 18:35

Azubah: Jun 5, 2007

Thoatse posted:

Wait, I thought that was the joke ...like no non-chuds really believe that do they?

Yes they do.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 18:59

Mellow_: Sep 13, 2010

As a bonus to watching that lovely video, apparently Monoclecat has a YouTube account.

Has this been found before?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBbkPcVkmhP2-eYG1V8ltYQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1kt2gUp1-M lmfao

# ? Apr 21, 2022 19:03

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

quote:

Well said... exactly.

Generally to anyone who cares to listen. Here's something to ponder:
ED and NMS basically generate things to explore on the fly, little to no bespoke experiences outside of player populated areas. Certainly not investing heavily in 'immersion'. Hardly much in the way of lore. Massive universe, basically empty and repetitive. They are what they are, they never tried to be anything different.

EvE Online doesn't have the millimetre by millimetre experience of a dynamic first person universe either - they provide content that rewards 'en masse' for the grand scale aficionados.

CIG have artists, 3D modellers and animators working on clothing sets which are only seen by players IF THEY DECIDE to go to the place that CIG put them. Sure GrimHex, Crusader and microTech get player traffic now, but what about later? What's the guarantee that if they build a Banu home-world rich in unique architecture, fashion and culture that anyone will actually take the time to go there to experience it more than once?

Imagine if I were an investor in games and you came to me and said I want a small army of artists and designers working for 10 years worth of salary to make clothing sets as 'unique to location fashion' for places that I'm not even sure more than 20 players a month would visit.. I'd laugh you out the door. I'd tell you that you are nuts. If you then tell say.. Wait I also want to build a whole backend universe simulator population with extremely highly paid engineer and systems designers, built from the ground up, that drives AI in places players may never even visit in their lifetimes! Well frankly you can imagine what they'd say. Now tell them that you want to make game mechanics, vehicles and locations - activities unique to locations - that barely 1% of the player base might engage in per year.

So what exactly is Star Citizen?
It's a whole community saying - Yeah, we gave ourselves the freedom because we like the idea of going out there and exploring - from a quick sightseeing trip to fully immersing ourselves in a single culture and location for decades, engaging in all sorts of activities we could do in other games, finding things no-one has seen before. Watching a universe and it's dynamic population unfold before our very eyes - all the while knowing - even if we weren't there to see it, it would still happen anyway.

The investor would ask: So why make Star Citizen for such a few to discover every nook and cranny at such a cost?

The answer a community partnership with a developer as unique as this one can give is...
BECAUSE WE CAN! We answer to no-one but ourselves!

quote:

STOP.

Exponential population growth means more people.
But top 10 crowd-funded projects retain the best chance at accomplishing their goals so they keep getting a share of attention from an exponentially larger source of funding.

That's why the top 500 publically traded companies generally go up every ten years. Similar dynamic. Exponentially more workers.

But SC is a space sim. Not a business (professional institution designed to take in more value than giving out)

With Star Citizen, we got a 64 bit world engine with sub-1 millimeter precision allowing for solar system sized maps. Also, a physics grid system that allows objects to be heavily physicalized like spacecraft with actual interiors flying at over 150,000 kilometers a second.

We got that WITH graphical textures and particle effects that outmatch Crysis3. Developers before have either managed expansiveness like infinity battlescape, space engine, elite dangerous, no mans sky or they have managed much smaller places with higher fidelity visuals, like crisis, battlefield. Some had a decent middle ground like ghost recon wildlands. and such. But to have the "top tier" of BOTH technical achievements is definitely a thing of quality.

We have fundamental complexity that has more fidelity to large-scale social dynamics than Total War Rome 2, and Cities Skylines combined, which both have their authenticity, at least in terms of rational choice theory adherence for participating agents.

It's not a bubble when a product has a legitimate chance of taking the top features of 5 other products, combining them, and improving on them. It's just growth in funding that is relative to attention.

The project is NOT failing. It's late, but the achievements it has made already would be DIFFICULT for other studios to match given similar funding.

In other words, this project really began in 2013, and since then, more than 2400 days have passed. It looks like the average backer definitely gave less than a dollar a day, for a project that aims to be 10X more ambitious, feature-packed, and complex than 10 GOTY'es altogether. This makes SC look like a pretty decent deal. $450 million doesn't always buy technical achievements like 64bit coordinate systems with sub-1 millimeter precision coupled with an efficient, consistently improving object container streaming system all woven into a 4k texture 60 FPS standard.

An issue is that every "pledge" is a loss to sales. The pledge comes with the full game, so every bit of funding takes away from sales. Pledging goes to the development of deeper higher-quality features. Sales make profits. The more pledging, the less sales at product release at final release.

So, looking at the demographics, let's say target interests in PC space sims start from 15 years of age and go up till... 60?. CIG is being enticed to develop for 20 years because that's when a fresh batch of customers grow up to be able to be interested in a product. That's somewhat of an issue.

But CIG can just release a secondary expansion which will keep the funding model for another ten years.

So really.

No, it's not like a stock market bubble. Not everything that has increased levels of growth is comparable to the stock market. Fundamentally different dynamics driving the action.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 19:11

Bronze Fonz: Feb 14, 2019

Mirificus posted:

A Citizen explains Server Meshing

You absolute loving buffoon, CIG themselves admitted last year that server meshing wouldn't be feasible and they'd resort to shards but you go on and keep that dream alive!

# ? Apr 21, 2022 19:13

BumbleOne: Jul 1, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

trucutru posted:

No, that brings attention to the project and CIG has already figured out that the less noise they make the better.

No more dinners, letters from the chairman, actual citizencons, etc.

they could at least show up on the parking lot of gamescom 2022 in cologne.
its funny that we have a game here which the closer it gets to release (hahaha), the less its promoted...

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:13

.random: May 7, 2007

Star Citizen: rational choice theory adherence for participating agents

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:32

doingitwrong: Jul 27, 2013

Mirificus posted:

We got that WITH graphical textures and particle effects that outmatch Crysis3

Crysis 3 was released in 2013.

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:34

Bubbacub: Apr 17, 2001

Mellow_ posted:

lol

watched the video and it's loving hilarious.

so many concerns just handwaved away.

the mythical replication layer.

skipped around a bit, it kind of felt like somebody attempting to explain scientology

# ? Apr 21, 2022 20:52

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

Bubbacub posted:

skipped around a bit, it kind of felt like somebody attempting to explain scientology

how high does my Thetan level need to be in order to captain an Idris?

# ? Apr 21, 2022 21:28

The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

Star citizen engine for an mmo? No.. it's not even an mmo. It's like a crappy arena game that has less players than console games.

Star citizen over UE5?

Not entirely sure how to go about that one. I think if you think that CIGs literal Frankenstein version of CryEngine is going to be better than Unreal, I'm not sure you are living in the same universe.

CIG will never get past UE4, and UE5 is levels of technological understanding that "server meshing"-guy can't even begin to comprehend.

There's a difference between making up names for stuff other people have done before by trying to rebrand it. And then there's the guys actually making the new technology and genuine breakthroughs you will hope to someday rebrand.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 01:44

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

The Titanic posted:

Star citizen engine for an mmo? No.. it's not even an mmo. It's like a crappy arena game that has less players than console games.

Star citizen over UE5?

Not entirely sure how to go about that one. I think if you think that CIGs literal Frankenstein version of CryEngine is going to be better than Unreal, I'm not sure you are living in the same universe.

CIG will never get past UE4, and UE5 is levels of technological understanding that "server meshing"-guy can't even begin to comprehend.

There's a difference between making up names for stuff other people have done before by trying to rebrand it. And then there's the guys actually making the new technology and genuine breakthroughs you will hope to someday rebrand.

I'm sorry but Star Citizen has way too many updates per tick. From moving items, parts, things, physics interactions to be feasible for anything else aside from a pretty spaceship viewer / wannabe MMO.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 03:07

lobsterminator: Oct 16, 2012

Mirificus posted:

We got that WITH graphical textures and particle effects that outmatch Crysis3. Developers before have either managed expansiveness like infinity battlescape, space engine, elite dangerous, no mans sky or they have managed much smaller places with higher fidelity visuals, like crisis, battlefield. Some had a decent middle ground like ghost recon wildlands. and such. But to have the "top tier" of BOTH technical achievements is definitely a thing of quality.

We have fundamental complexity that has more fidelity to large-scale social dynamics than Total War Rome 2, and Cities Skylines combined, which both have their authenticity, at least in terms of rational choice theory adherence for participating agents.

They keep saying they have all these amazing things but from everything I've seen they appear to only have a lifeless, bland looking world with a very basic Oblivion level NPC AI.

If they have them, please show instead of tell!

# ? Apr 22, 2022 06:20

CeeJee: Dec 4, 2001; Oven Wrangler

Mellow_ posted:

lol

watched the video and it's loving hilarious.

so many concerns just handwaved away.

the mythical replication layer.

Nice work new Senior Head Network Performance Architect for CIGrift

# ? Apr 22, 2022 07:42

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# ? May 31, 2024 16:56

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

lobsterminator posted:

They keep saying they have all these amazing things but from everything I've seen they appear to only have a lifeless, bland looking world with a very basic Oblivion level NPC AI.

If they have them, please show instead of tell!

It looks, idk, ok? Solid* 7/10.

# ? Apr 22, 2022 07:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: $48,000 is only $334/month for 12 years

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