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Magnetic North posted:For the first and third posts in the OP, I agree wholeheartedly. They represent my opinion and that of goons. I appreciate the second post as a sincere effort to provide valuable information and you spent a lot of time on it. TG needs this kind of info. Genuinely, I appreciate it. However, OPs are not "special" in the sense that they inherently imply moderator-enforced rules or positions that nobody's allowed to challenge for fear of punishment. I won't probe or ban people just for posting different opinions from what you've posted in the OP. Or challenging statements of fact, either. I'm also not here as a mod to impose my own opinions as law, I'm not even a thread regular. Why would my opinion on any given game or company listed in the OP matter? It doesn't. A moderator should enforce rules that allow constructive conversations, not disallow them. quote:You literally have the power to stop this. We have already been over this. Take it to QCS, seriously, I'm sick to death of it. OR PM an admin. Hashing out what constitutes appropriate punishments is off topic for the boardgame thread.
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Apr 21, 2022 21:58
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Leperflesh posted:A moderator should enforce rules that allow constructive conversations, not disallow them. The fact that you think that what has continued to derail this thread counts as 'constructive conversations' is all that needs to be said. I thought better of you. I was wrong.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:03
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Continuously trolling the tread: On topic Asking to fix the problem: Off topic
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Apr 21, 2022 22:10
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The limp wrist moderating concerned more with tut tut discourse than making the thread they mod better by doing anything about the small number of posters causing the same issues about the same topics repeatedly is why myself and others left the thread. Just wanted to give more backup that your inaction is a bad joke and saying "boy am I tired of this same issue" while ignoring that you're the very one that can fix it in line with the way that a thousand other threads have handled it is the punchline.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:14
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Flipside, you can also put users on ignore. They're uninteresting trolls more than anything. They are definitely not at Stux levels of bad faith, but you could recommend a thread ban for a month and see if that reins in the nonsense.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:25
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I <3 thread. Anyway, anyone have any thoughts about Eclispe 2nd Edition? I noticed it was available to buy again (apparently it can get hard to find) but its $229 aussie dollarydoos. When discussing this purchase with my partner I got a look, so I thought I might seek some thoughts from you fine folk before I commit. I have a good group (usally 3-4 people) that I think will find it fun, based on the SUSD review at least. Anyone had any plays of it? Looks like something I would get more plays out of then TI4 at least.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:43
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I really like Eclipse 1e but no way can I justify 2e at that price. I know it comes with fancy trays, but dang. It's a fun game though. The wonky exploration phase allowing you to wall yourself off is probably my least favourite part.
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Apr 21, 2022 22:51
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Magnetic North posted:The fact that you think that what has continued to derail this thread counts as 'constructive conversations' is all that needs to be said. Here is an example of the constructive conversation that is allowed in the thread: Aramoro posted:Also if promotion of KS games is bad then why aren't we boycotting BGG, the main page is just a carousel advertising Kickstarters? And your own response: Magnetic North posted:I like this post. See? Respectful discourse. Not a derail. Can you let me explain this to folks like PerniciousKnid and Funso Banjo, to make it clear that it's possible to have non-trolling discourse about topics raised in your OPs, or is it just impossible to have a conversation about board game thread moderation that doesn't revolve around your particular beef?
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Apr 21, 2022 22:57
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Could you be any more reductive and condescending? It’s not just the OPs particular beef and you’re purposefully ignoring all the other voices that have said the same thing repeatedly in this thread and the previous.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:00
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Infinitum posted:Flipside, you can also put users on ignore. At least on BGG they literally remove offending posts and all response to them. Christ, BGG's moderation is better...
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Apr 21, 2022 23:07
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We need a serious distraction. Has anyone enjoyed a game of Munchkin, Fluxx, or Exploding Kittens recently? That ought to do it.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:52
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Kiranamos posted:We need a serious distraction. Has anyone enjoyed a game of Munchkin, Fluxx, or Exploding Kittens recently? That ought to do it. 1st edition Arkham Horror with all the expansions is the best game ever created.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:53
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Crackbone posted:1st edition Arkham Horror with all the expansions is the best game ever created. Monopoly! We have to play Monopoly with all house rules enabled! See ya next year!!
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Apr 21, 2022 23:57
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Fluxxx is a better hand management game than feast for odin
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Apr 21, 2022 23:57
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Kiranamos posted:We need a serious distraction. Has anyone enjoyed a game of Munchkin, Fluxx, or Exploding Kittens recently? That ought to do it. Spirit island is overrated. It’s a great lifestyle game but a little impenetrable unless you’re willing to devote the time to it.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:57
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Mighty Eris posted:Spirit island is overrated. It’s a great lifestyle game but a little impenetrable unless you’re willing to devote the time to it. I will agree with this. We've tried it three times and lost every time.
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Apr 21, 2022 23:58
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Orange DeviI posted:Fluxxx is a better hand management game than feast for odin Thinking about the s word and this post
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Apr 22, 2022 00:01
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Mighty Eris posted:Spirit island is overrated. It’s a great lifestyle game but a little impenetrable unless you’re willing to devote the time to it. Mayveena posted:I will agree with this. We've tried it three times and lost every time. Both of you are dead to me. (First let me say that the core of your opinions is objectively correct; I can't say that you're wrong if you don't like it. I will also agree that SI requires more work and focus than your average game; its BGG complexity is 4.04/5.00 IIRC, jumping to something like 4.5/5 with the expansions. But I find it worth the effort. It rewards the work you put into it. It has real and engaging options for scaling difficulty, which many co-op games lack; e.g., in Pandemic, your only two real choices to increase difficulty are to include more epidemic cards or decrease the number of beneficial event cards. I've never found a game quite like SI and I wonder if I'll ever fall out of love with it. I love playing it solo 2-handing spirits, playing it with my wife, teaching it to newbies, etc. My only complaint about the game is that sometimes I can lose to a 'bad beat', where I get three perfectly synchronized bad event cards in a row at the same time as, say, wetlands has come up thrice in a row [stage 1 wetlands/stage 2 coastal lands/stage 2 wetlands], and because of all that building and ravaging the island gets just the wrong sort of blighted island card, and all that just puts me too far behind the 8-ball; however, to be fair, sometimes a game is just a blowout against the invaders when everything goes right and that's not as fun as a tense game either. But even without someone stacking the deck to smooth out extremes or somehow putting rules on when cards can come up those outliers are a price I'm willing to pay for such a great game.)
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Apr 22, 2022 00:30
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Incredible performance art or wooooosh? You be the judge!
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Apr 22, 2022 00:32
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Some Numbers posted:Incredible performance art or wooooosh? I picked up Wooooosh for my group, but the rules explanation flew over their heads.
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Apr 22, 2022 00:41
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Infinitum posted:I picked up Wooooosh for my group, but the rules explanation flew over their heads.  Well done
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Apr 22, 2022 00:44
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Some Numbers posted:
I was thinking about picking up Incredible Performance Art as well, but I think it's more of a concept piece as opposed to something you can play with.
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Apr 22, 2022 00:48
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Admiralty Flag posted:Both of you are dead to me. SI confounds me because there's some conceptual barrier most people run into on the first try that I am unable to put my finger on. After a game or two some indefinable something just clicks and suddenly everything makes sense and is easy (until you crank up the difficulty), but I'd be hard pressed to describe what the trick is. Normally once I get a game down pat I can boil it down and get new players up to speed pretty quickly, but SI resists my efforts to explain the core loop even more than other games that are nominally more difficult or complicated.
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Apr 22, 2022 01:10
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SI is weird because the invader loop is much, much more important than the Spirit loop in terms of 'information you 100% need to know" to the point where I teach the entirety of the Invader phase before I even touch what players do. Also the fact that you don't have a single physical presence on the board, but rather points of influence from which you measure your reach and so can take a while to adjust.
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Apr 22, 2022 01:27
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Azran posted:SI is weird because the invader loop is much, much more important than the Spirit loop in terms of 'information you 100% need to know" to the point where I teach the entirety of the Invader phase before I even touch what players do. Also the fact that you don't have a single physical presence on the board, but rather points of influence from which you measure your reach and so can take a while to adjust. This is where I always start and it still tends to wind up going straight into "learn by failing" mode (outside of one pair of newbie savants who picked Bringer and Ocean against all recommendations and immediately dumpstered the invaders)
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Apr 22, 2022 01:30
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Although honestly, I wonder if that isn't the whole problem--the "low complexity" recommended starting spirits are deceptively difficult. They're "simple" in that they have low rules density and limited options, but I think they actually wind up doing a poorer job of signaling how they tick than most of the more complex spirits.
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Apr 22, 2022 01:38
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I found Spirit Island to be pretty easy to teach, if only because it's cooperative, so there's no problem with walking people through their turns as much as they want help until it clicks. It's obtuse until you see it in motion a couple times. I think the key is to resist overteaching at the start; just walk through the basics of the invader and spirit turn loops, and then point details out as you walk through a turn or two.
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Apr 22, 2022 02:11
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Llyranor posted:OG Quirky Circuits is excellent. It's my go-to gateway-weight coop. Oh, my mistake, legit thought this was an expansion because I figured it was just adding one new robot and had some maps for the cat roomba too. It is super cheap though so I decided "gently caress it" and bought it. I am going to have so many games to try out at the local game shop once that pandemic is over 
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Apr 22, 2022 03:14
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Reckon you guys would probably like Robot Quest Arena as well https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1172937197/robot-quest-arena It's a programmable deck builder by the creator of Star Realms
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Apr 22, 2022 03:18
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Anybody got tips for a game that plays 2-4 people. Is fairly strategic, good amount of player interaction, plays under an hour and is small enough that it can be played on a small table or a picnic blanket?
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Apr 22, 2022 09:01
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uncle blog posted:Anybody got tips for a game that plays 2-4 people. Is fairly strategic, good amount of player interaction, plays under an hour and is small enough that it can be played on a small table or a picnic blanket? Kabuto Sumo. Also fits the outdoor theme if you are playing in a park or the like.
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Apr 22, 2022 09:25
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uncle blog posted:Anybody got tips for a game that plays 2-4 people. Is fairly strategic, good amount of player interaction, plays under an hour and is small enough that it can be played on a small table or a picnic blanket? I've played Inis under an hour with 3 people, but it may be stretching the time limit.
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Apr 22, 2022 09:40
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Infinitum posted:Reckon you guys would probably like Robot Quest Arena as well Not heard of this. It looks fantastic. Thanks for the heads up, think I might jump on this. How does late backing work, never done that before? Do you get the stretch goals etc?
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Apr 22, 2022 09:47
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Leperflesh posted:Here is an example of the constructive conversation that is allowed in the thread: Bottom Liner posted:Could you be any more reductive and condescending? This. That is why I specifically said that I liked Aramoro's response. Because I know they are a thread regular. Because I know sometimes they stir a little bit of poo poo, but usually in good humor and from a place of sincerity. Because I actually read the thread. Leperflesh posted:Can you let me explain this to folks like PerniciousKnid and Funso Banjo, to make it clear that it's possible to have non-trolling discourse about topics raised in your OPs, or is it just impossible to have a conversation about board game thread moderation that doesn't revolve around your particular beef? PerniciousKnid is also a thread regular who is usually a bit closer to the line regarding abrasiveness, but I think is at least commonly from a sincere place. Funso Banjo is not a regular, as I commented before, and has elected to comment for the first time in 5 years to talk to dismiss concerns about crypto or other things raised in the OP (which as pointed out by thread regular Admirality Flag, includes sexual assault, but I am going to assume FB didn't read that and is not dismissing that). I don't know if they are trolling. I think it's fair to say that a board game thread is not really the place to discuss whether crypto is good or not. This is what is so massively infuriating about the fact that board gamers now have to worry about supporting stealth crypto projects. For video games, you understand because it's computers and computers can do anything. But board games are just cardboard and wood. It's supposed to be innocent, but it isn't. Board gamers might want to know that their board games are environmentally destructive in ways that they had not anticipated. Sure, they may already understand that a game with wood is probably better than plastic, but crypto is invisible. So people need a way to learn of this hazard, which this thread is attempting to offer them. But whenever you mention it, people crawl out the woodwork to try and convince you crypto is good actually, because they need greater fools to be in their downline so they can turn their crypto into fiat. Here is what I'm getting at: A little while ago, I was asked by a member of the moderation team to add something to the OP that said that discussion of KDM was banned because of the problems it caused. It hasn't come up since so the effectiveness of that rule is still unclear. Similarly, if a person puts together a thread that says "No Spoilers" for something like a Let's Play thread then I believe they can expect punishment if users do not respect that. If those two points stand to reason, that means that an OP has a certain amount of leeway in creating additional rules to their threads that are above and beyond the normal forum rules about racism and filez, etc. So, here is the proposal: If I were to add to the thread a rule that said something to the effect of "This is not the place to dismiss the importance of these things, please report any posts that do", would that mean that when posts get reported as violating the thread-specific rules, we could depend on moderator action? If not, why not?
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Apr 22, 2022 09:50
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How are the Keyflower expansions? I always liked the base game. Also there's a card game version called Key Flow?
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Apr 22, 2022 09:56
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Magnetic North posted:Funso Banjo is not a regular, as I commented before Yeah, I picked up your subtle, you don't post here much, maybe you're trolling? thing. I read a lot, as I said, but don't post much. I'm a board gamer though, I assure you, and am not posting with an intent to piss people off. I intend to post more often and be active, because it's kind of upsetting to get that kind of reaction, and want top avoid it in the future.
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Apr 22, 2022 09:59
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uncle blog posted:Anybody got tips for a game that plays 2-4 people. Is fairly strategic, good amount of player interaction, plays under an hour and is small enough that it can be played on a small table or a picnic blanket? Is coop okay? If so the crew is an outstanding choice. Otherwise Azul is probably a strong contender though I might be worried about the table space being a bit tight.
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Apr 22, 2022 10:41
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Hey is CoolStuffInc still ok? They're not in the third post which makes me wonder if something ugly came up about them. I was about to order something from them rather than miniature market to avoid the asmodee connection, and figured I'd look in the third post, expecting them to be listed.
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Apr 22, 2022 11:16
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Chekans 3 16 posted:How are the Keyflower expansions? I always liked the base game. Also there's a card game version called Key Flow? I have played Merchants once, but it's concept is to add more scoring throughout the game, rather than have it be almost completely decided in the final auction. I've been thinking of picking it up, as that's something of a sticking point for a lot of players. Keyflow is enjoyable, but very much a different game. Along with the art and theme (lol) they've kept a fair few mechanics (four seasons, the ability to use the villages of your nearest neighbours, upgrading tiles). It's also got the most useless insert I've seen - the box is subdivided into lots of square containers - you could probably individually house every wooden barrel, but there's no place to put the cards.
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Apr 22, 2022 11:17
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Magnetic North posted:But whenever you mention it, people crawl out the woodwork to try and convince you crypto is good actually, because they need greater fools to be in their downline so they can turn their crypto into fiat. Slight correction before the pedant rear end in a top hat jumps at this reductive strawman like all the previous ones: No, not literally everyone defending crypto is doing it directly and only because they get material profit from it. But when they do defend crypto, they carry water for aforementioned people, who are doing evil. Crypto being universally unambiguously destructive is no longer a matter of "opinion". Except for some weird non-consumer science and security things that regular people don't understand, business involving crypto is always a grift. I hope that if someone walked into this thread and someone's reaction to a sexual assault allegation in the industry was "hey, what if she's trying to ruin his reputation?" no mod team member (or so I hope...) would defend that person when we tell them that such statements are not welcome, and someone supporting these ideas is not welcome. Oh no, maybe we call them stupid or tell them to gently caress off in the process, how terrible! Supporting crypto may be "less evil" than not believing victims, but it is equally unambiguous in it being evil. I just want to read the board game thread in peace. I dont want to let my guard down and then encounter a rapist defender or climate change denier or covid denier or crypto defender or whatever, and then have to deal with that. I don't want to have to be a shark, constantly adding the offenders to my ignore list (and then getting frustrated every time I miss context in some other people's posts). We supposedly have moderation for exactly this reason. So that conversation can flow, and be productive. Magnetic North has done heroic work in the OP in establishing clear guidelines for this productive conservation that our mods supposedly wish to support. It is a mystery why they choose not to. Leperflesh posted:A moderator should enforce rules that allow constructive conversations, not disallow them. Lol. Lmao.
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Apr 22, 2022 11:22
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