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So I thought Brisc gave the best tidbit of commentary on the last Metashow as to why CCP should have never sold its Eve IP in 2018 to one of the gacha mill publishers which seem to be behind so many predatory decicions in the failing MMOs of today, Richard Garriott excluded. https://i.imgur.com/om9r9Et.mp4 Also  https://i.imgur.com/SkGqDh5.mp4
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Apr 24, 2022 23:29
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Dik Hz posted:Lol and lmao if you think eve in 2004 had content. imagine being this stupid and intentionally misunderstanding his comment
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Apr 25, 2022 00:36
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:imagine being this stupid and intentionally misunderstanding his comment
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Apr 25, 2022 02:57
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used to be impossible to have 100 vs 100 fleet fights without crippling lag. we can do that all day now
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Apr 25, 2022 03:23
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Dalmuti posted:used to be impossible to have 100 vs 100 fleet fights without crippling lag. we can do that all day now this is a good point, but it is fair that people felt like there was a hope that the game was going to improve and become something bigger and better in 2004, and that hope is gone in 2022
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Apr 25, 2022 03:26
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Dik Hz posted:Counterpoint: Given inflation, EvE at $20/month is 20% cheaper than EvE at $15/month back in 2004 when it launched at that price point. $20/mo for eve is just absurd, even by today's dollar. For $20/mo there are hundreds of games that are better. I canceled all my accounts. Time for some Diablo 2.
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Apr 25, 2022 03:47
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xblackdog posted:Time for some Diablo 2. lol
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Apr 25, 2022 05:56
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2004 was all new content tho, it may have been a very basic broken game, there was a lot of doing this for the first time magic which forgives a game a lot of sins, was it Shin Ra with the first battleship? That was as big then as the first titan was and that is what this game is missing since I came back. An attempt was made with that big station no one wants, because what people really want is a Large PvP ship no one else has. You don't want fleets of them? Fine make it so there can only be one of each faction existing at the same time and release one BPC in an event every time one gets killed to death.
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Apr 25, 2022 09:34
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Dik Hz posted:Dude, chill. 2004 wasn't some halcyon era of Eve developers making good decisions and creating good content. They were even worse back then. 2004 Eve was a really bad game. no, you're missing the point of the discussion being the development, not the state of the game sure the game was worse, but the developers then were actually improving the game. this was the crux of the discussion that you refused to acknowledge, three times.
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Apr 25, 2022 11:56
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:no, you're missing the point of the discussion being the development, not the state of the game This. Developers are expensive, so if they were developing the game I'd be happy to pay for it. Servers are getting cheaper by the year. I'm not okay paying more for something getting cheaper. CCP needs to be owned by a private entity who cares about the game, and Hilmar needs to go. I wondered if ultimately it was a CEO problem after monocle gate. I think Hilmar made something amazing, but can't take Eve further in a way its players care about.
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Apr 25, 2022 13:08
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The problem is that the servers are in London and there is hyper inflation here. On top of all of that energy prices just doubled - electricity I've gone from £20 to £40 ($51)a week for a 3 bed. If CCP said "welp our server costs doubled and we lost russia" in the blog then there would be a lot of upset people but it would be accepted as just another part of this poo poo decade kicking us all in the ribs.
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Apr 25, 2022 13:23
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Dik Hz posted:Dude, chill. 2004 wasn't some halcyon era of Eve developers making good decisions and creating good content. They were even worse back then. 2004 Eve was a really bad game. the 2003 patch (castor) introduced tech 2 and conquerable stations. the 2004 patch (exodus) introduced destroyers, battlecruisers, alliances, poses, and mining barges the first 2005 patch (cold war) intorduced outposts, dreads, freighters, and removed the empire highways the second 2005 patch (red moon rising) introduced titans, carriers, supercarriers, and a bunch of t2 ships patches in 2020 and 2021 introduced...lovely nerfs, and occasionally undoing some of those patches in 2022 are expected to introduce... Ynglaur posted:This. Developers are expensive, so if they were developing the game I'd be happy to pay for it. Servers are getting cheaper by the year. I'm not okay paying more for something getting cheaper. the key thing you need to understand is that hilmar had basically no role in creating EVE, hence why he desperately funnels all of the cash from it to Something Else he can genuinely claim credit for evilweasel fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 14:36
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evilweasel posted:the 2003 patch (castor) introduced tech 2 and conquerable stations.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:56
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:no, you're missing the point of the discussion being the development, not the state of the game evilweasel posted:the 2003 patch (castor) introduced tech 2 and conquerable stations. Also in that era were the T2 lotteries and developers actively cheating for their alliance. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 15:04
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Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you b in the same way a flat earther can disagree with an astronaut, yes you can disagree with me you can disagree all you want, you're just wrong, and missing the point Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you. The point I made that you've completely ignored in favor of personal insults is that people paid more than $20 (in current dollars) for Eve in 2004 when Eve was a really bad game. and no one ever stated otherwise, your point is moot because you intend for it to address a point no one is making. people are stating they're willing to pay for developers making an experience better, not ones that are actively making an experience worse or not changing it at all. Dik Hz posted:I kinda disagree that POSs, L4 missions, and the initial ship balance were good design decisions and good content. Conquerable stations were cool, though. Red Moon Rising included arguably dumbest design decisions in the history of video games. 1) they were an improvement, 2) they were an improvement, 3) they were an improvement. 4) yes they were. 5) massive content patch you don't like? aw, poor you 6) he was fired and punished and actions made to make it less possible in the future, and those were removed and the system made better 1001 Arabian dicks fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 15:09
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:in the same way a flat earther can disagree with an astronaut, yes you can disagree with me
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Apr 25, 2022 15:12
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Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you in the same way a flat earther can disagree with an astronaut, yes you can disagree with me
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Apr 25, 2022 15:12
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:in the same way a flat earther can disagree with an astronaut, yes you can disagree with me Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 15:16
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Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you Holy poo poo shut the gently caress up lol!!!!!!!!!
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Apr 25, 2022 15:19
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Dik Hz posted:You ever notice that the flat earthers think they're the smart ones who really know what's going on? ok flat earther
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Apr 25, 2022 15:29
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Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you. The point I made that you've completely ignored in favor of personal insults is that people paid more than $20 (in current dollars) for Eve in 2004 when Eve was a really bad game.. By your own logic, wages havnt really gone up matching inflation therefore ppl in 2004 made more money per hour worked and paid less for EVE than ppl in 2022.
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Apr 25, 2022 15:43
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Dik Hz posted:I kinda disagree that POSs, L4 missions, and the initial ship balance were good design decisions and good content. Conquerable stations were cool, though. Red Moon Rising included arguably dumbest design decisions in the history of video games. in contrast, the interesting content patches with no balance issues made in the past two years include... i'd rather be paying for devs introducing new content that isn't fully baked than, uh, numerical tweaks that despite being incredibly low effort are still not fully baked and have obvious and glaring errors
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Apr 25, 2022 16:07
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Dik Hz posted:Counterpoint: Given inflation, EvE at $20/month is 20% cheaper than EvE at $15/month back in 2004 when it launched at that price point. They're not competing with EvE Online from 2004. They're competing with titles from today that are cheaper, more fun, and starting to get startlingly deep.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:08
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Dik Hz posted:Nah. I get what people are saying I just disagree. Chill dude. It’s ok for people to disagree with you who the gently caress it outside my house telling me to chill i will never chill
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Apr 25, 2022 16:18
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Red moon rising was great at the time. No one was thinking "hey in 10 years time home computing will have developed to the point where you can run 8 industry accounts off one PC and there will be fleets of titans" I helped, in a small way, build thulsa doom's titan and new players today will have no idea how cool it still is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPreOOjXumU) to hear the russians blow it up over leaked team speak. I'm not being an old fart going "back in my day" it's that the hilarity and drama from blowing something that new and rare to bits just can't happen with plex.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:23
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learnincurve posted:Red moon rising was great at the time. No one was thinking "hey in 10 years time home computing will have developed to the point where you can run 8 industry accounts off one PC and there will be fleets of titans" i mean almost every aspect of titans was incredibly poorly thought out but they were really trying and delivering poo poo and a half-baked idea for a supership you implement is better than a half-baked idea of a patch entirely designed around causing an in-game recession
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Apr 25, 2022 16:25
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one is trying, the one is not why pay devs more for trying less, and making the known product worse? i'd rather pay them to do better
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Apr 25, 2022 16:28
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evilweasel posted:in contrast, the interesting content patches with no balance issues made in the past two years include...
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Apr 25, 2022 16:33
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evilweasel posted:i mean almost every aspect of titans was incredibly poorly thought out but they were really trying and delivering poo poo and a half-baked idea for a supership you implement is better than a half-baked idea of a patch entirely designed around causing an in-game recession I'm not sure about the goon timeline but this would have been redswarm era with noobs in frigs? The most amazing part of titan production was the PvP content generated by having to get an insane amount of non-compressable trit out to the build station from empire - you would build mods that took a lot of trit/contract that out to empire corps and then use the scrapmetal processing skill at V out in 0.0 to break them down. You literally couldn't do that today because that skill only gives you 2% instead of 10%
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Apr 25, 2022 16:36
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Dik Hz posted:What kind of new content would you be looking for? I think every single person could name at least one big change that would massively improve their play style The missions are the same as they were in 2008, and are incredibly unprofitable relative to any other PvE aspect of the game, level 4s are insanely hard with the resist buffs in anything other than a sniper boat. This sucks, it needs changing. Drones, I want to be able to run more than 5 drones and I want more control over them when they are out in space.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:43
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learnincurve posted:I'm not sure about the goon timeline but this would have been redswarm era with noobs in frigs? What PVP content are you talking about? Buy mins in hisec, have it hauled to isanamo or whatever, use N alts with 10 slots each to make 425mm's en masse, haul with JF into null, done. We got more "PVP" out of using spy alts in Russian renter corps in drones to buy drone poo and smuggle it out using JFs than just doing the module compression poo poo in hisec, heh.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:49
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Dik Hz posted:What kind of new content would you be looking for? ultimately, a new and complex system that requires substantial effort to figure out and to organize people to exploit, preferably one that generates conflict. it is the lack of such features in the past, like, decade that is a big feature in EVE's stagnation. what exactly that is, i don't know - i'm not a game designer. but you read through old patches from the 1y/6m Big Patch era, and there's repeated examples. for example: wormholes; conquerable space; moon mining/t2 production; dominion sov; fozziesov (utterly terrible, but they tried); converting tons of npc-seeded products to PI, etc at the end of the day too many parts of eve have been "solved" and to avoid it eve devs just tweak numbers: oh people found out shiptype x is the best and all fleet combat has trended to that. change five numerical values to alter that, wait for people to re-solve. that's not interesting. i mean don't even get me started on the backlog of half-implemented things they never finished (really picked up in dominion, when they announced a "first batch" of ihub upgrades and never discussed others ever again, which points to a different management issue) but ultimately it is the lack of really interesting new stuff to get people thinking and working and organizing that has led to the malise and stagnation that currently dominates eve - because they drained all of the resources from EVE to make a cavaclade of failures. all the devs that would do interesting stuff left long ago because they weren't going to get to do anything interesting, and have gotten steadily replaced with more and more mediocre people. learnincurve posted:I'm not sure about the goon timeline but this would have been redswarm era with noobs in frigs? it wasn't all THAT interesting, because it had the same issue logistics do today (they're incredibly unfun and people won't play a game to do them, and min/max out the risk). people used iteron V's in carriers as proto-JFs (you filled the iteron v, then put it in the carrier SMA, and the carrier could effectively haul a lot) or later by sticking hilariously oversized guns on destroyers and filling the SMA with destroyers with dread guns, stuff was built in empire and moved in freighters, and the only potential PvP was (a) the movement of compressed mods from highsec to lowsec; and (b) the freightering of minerals from the refinery to the POS. both, you just never did with hostiles in system (and while local didn't have tags originally, goons had the portrait pack to do it) evilweasel fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 17:02
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Well our issue is that we were small empire no namers who didn't have JF, so all our lower end mineral stuff was scouted, escorted and hauled out to the staging areas of people willing to give us money.
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Apr 25, 2022 17:05
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The biggest issue for me is I don't feel the current version of EVE is even worth the current price. Increasing the price makes it even easier to just keep saying no to re-subbing my accounts.
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Apr 25, 2022 17:20
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honestly, it may be that eve has backed itself into a corner, and that you cannot really capture the magic of those early years because you can't get around twenty years of organization-building and cannot make massive sweeping changes given how much has already been built but we don't know, because nobody has really tried since 2010. i was going to say 2012, but i looked at the patch list and literally every great big swing for the fences predates incarna in 2011 since 2010, there has been really only two things that approach swings for the fences, citadels and fozziesov. one of those was so terrible that it has since been basically removed. there has been significant back-end work that shouldn't be discredited but man, has it really been that long since the golden years of eve, i am old
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Apr 25, 2022 17:22
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i think it's just some high end ego poo poo where they're trying to create their own project they can call their own or just a massive disdain for the playerbase that dares question their design decisions they're the smug-non confrontational type of toxic where they'll just do braindead stupid poo poo and then refuse to engage with it despite overwhelming evidence and just put their fingers in their ear and go 'bla bla bla nana na'
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Apr 25, 2022 17:30
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learnincurve posted:Well our issue is that we were small empire no namers who didn't have JF, so all our lower end mineral stuff was scouted, escorted and hauled out to the staging areas of people willing to give us money. Heh. When TNT moved into Deklein in 2009, we had <600 chars in the alliance. I guess we were still "well off" since we had people with JFs and poo poo though   Bahanahab posted:The biggest issue for me is I don't feel the current version of EVE is even worth the current price. This is what it really boils down to. I'm winding down a lot of my industry when the majority of my subs lapse in late May, the alliance can coast on savings and assets for about 10 years at our current burn rate with 0 income after that
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Apr 25, 2022 17:45
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i actually wonder, rereading this CCP Paragon interview about their claimed upcoming "biggest patch ever", if the people at ccp literally don't have institutional memory of what their patches used to be because that is a promise there's no loving way they can come close to meeting either i will be pleasantly shocked to my utter core or it will be a fun few days of posting post-fanfest. i don't think anyone's gonna fall for the usual thing of "here are some immense, sweeping changes coming SoonTM that we just came up with on a bender and will never actually get implemented" like most things promised at fanfest (excited for that 10 year old character station!!!!!) evilweasel fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 17:49
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All they've done is bump up the resolution of all the textures so it's "biggest" as in "Largest download to date"
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Apr 25, 2022 17:52
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oh hang on Few weeks ago there was a super smug ISD guy in rookie chat dropping hints that there would be no ships this year on eves birthday, and saying wait for fanfest at the time I thought he was a regular dick, but maybe the jove nuclear option wasn't wrong, and there won't be praxis because of some big jove roleplay event.
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Apr 25, 2022 17:58
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