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Morningwoodpecker, I don't even know what you're complaining about. If you're ride-or-die on a second referendum, then that was Labour policy in the 2019 election. You got what you wanted. What did you want Corbyn to do regarding Brexit that he didn't do?
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Apr 25, 2022 14:22
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Stop it, obviously
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Apr 25, 2022 14:24
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Failed Imagineer posted:JFC if this is policy (I have no reason to doubt so). Britain is at the cutting-edge of innovation in the racism space A hostile environment for migrants has been policy since 2012. The people who hate all immigrants also hate refugee's.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:25
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Barry Foster posted:It's true. Jose posted about it in the CSPAM thread, I'll see if I can get the link Thanks for the links, I feel slightly ill. Just straight-up fascist xenophobes who simultaneously also want to be applauded for their welcoming inclusive internationalist benevolence. Moral cowards of the worst kind. Yes, I know I could just say "Tories".
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Apr 25, 2022 14:27
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Morningwoodpecker posted:A hostile environment for migrants has been policy since 2012. The people who hate all immigrants also hate refugee's. You don't say?
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Apr 25, 2022 14:28
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Borrovan posted:Reminder that Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty (largely to to ignorant fears that the Eurocrats would impose gay marriage & abortion), so they had to go back & do the referendum again since it didn't get the right result the first time So from memory the Lisbon Referendum was run on the most batshit manner possible. The Pro-side didn't know what it was about and just told people to vote for it without reading it. Meanwhile the Anti-side discovered that if you added a question mark to any statement you could argue you weren't making an outrageous accusation but were just asking a question. So you had signs that said "Minimum Wage €1.89 per hour after Lisbon?" "Conscription to the EU army after Lisbon?" So Lisbon was voted down the first time around but before the second Referendum (almost 18 months later) there was much more actual debate and explanation about what was involved. Even if it did mean that someone had to explain that voting in Lisbon did not put power in the hands of the NaziCommies. The narrative of "The people were made vote again until they got it right" is reductive. While nothing really changed, more accurate information was put out there so the public got to make an informed choice. And nothing in politics says that once a Referendum is held, you can vote on the issue again for 25+ years.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:32
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Failed Imagineer posted:Thanks for the links, I feel slightly ill. Yeah, it felt like a literal gut punch when I first read it Somehow they always find new ways to surprise and disgust me
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Apr 25, 2022 14:33
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fubpees blaming Corbyn for Brexit, it must be 2017 all over again
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Apr 25, 2022 14:38
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Dabir posted:Stop it, obviously You can't expect the opposition to oppose stuff, they have themselves to fight.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:43
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Morningwoodpecker posted:You can't expect the opposition to oppose stuff, they have themselves to fight. Anything to actually say or just "waaaa" extended over many more syllables.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:52
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In a slightly more light hearted note to the absolute awful, enraging shitshow of our hostile environment there's been an update to the Duke Nukem 3D Britain mod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EGY-NfW4n4 I very much think one of you did this.
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Apr 25, 2022 14:55
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If Jeremy Corbyn had personally been out there with that lad bellowing STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP BREXIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT at the top of his lungs, then maybe we'd have seen what would happen
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Apr 25, 2022 15:02
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Barry Foster posted:Yeah, it felt like a literal gut punch when I first read it Sorry... cheeseburger burger and fries please, and some nuggets...
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Apr 25, 2022 15:08
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https://twitter.com/Fraserwtt/status/1518593668017496066
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Apr 25, 2022 15:33
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Borrovan posted:Funny thing is he's correctly identified the reasons why the "official" Remain campaign lost. It's not like the establishment could stand up & say "we were actually lying to you the whole time, it's not the EU's fault things have been getting worse, it was us, we did it", so they just said "actually everything is fine, we won't change anything, gently caress u". I say "how much for cash today, right now?" he says "same price, can't do anything else" I say "really, you'll save on your card fees and paperwork" and he starts going on about how there's an EU regulation that says they can't. Mate, you're a mattress warehouse. If he'd said "I'm bad at negotiating and poo poo scared the boss will bollock me" then fair enough, if he'd said "sorry the taxman don't like that but I can throw in a set of these foam pillows" or whatever then at least that shows willing, but don't take me for a mug about suited Brussels bureaucrats scrutinizing your summer mattress bonanza. It's amazing how deep "if you can't be arsed to do something, blame the EU" percolated. Morningwoodpecker posted:decades of people doing exactly that dishonestly and never once getting factchecked on it. The only way to unpick this is to try to rebuild that trust and at the same time implement some kind of reform on the media to stop them from benefiting from eroding it.
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Apr 25, 2022 15:34
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The literal Jokerisation of society.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:04
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The "blame the EU" point is made, however the real reason there was no negotiation is that the business is set up to skim from the credit agreement by sticking to the advertised price and getting you to pay over time. From your POV it's "0% interest" (i.e. to pay £300, you make 10 payments of £30) but for them their vig is the difference in what you would have bought an item for, for cash (say £250, or much less), and the final agreement. You couldn't get a same-day deal for cash because a deal for cash == literally no[t enough] profit; for them, it's a waste of an asset they could have sold to some other But yeah, people will say anything. Bad weather? EU. Stubbed toe? Probably barmy Brussels, at it again. Only Kindness fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 16:11
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Guavanaut posted:They were being factchecked all the time, but the factcheckers were written off as biased metropolitan elitist remoaners, because at a crucial level they failed to realize that they were not dealing with a facts issue, they were dealing with a lack of social trust issue. The factchecking was a token effort at best, it should have been headline news immediately after every speech or debate or even stop the debate or interview until it's done. Then been kept up until a clarification or retraction was issued. The problem there being that like Trump the bullshit flowed so freely there just isn't time in the day to cover it all. Gish galloping. Guavanaut posted:The only way to unpick this is to try to rebuild that trust and at the same time implement some kind of reform on the media to stop them from benefiting from eroding it. There's no easy money in media reform. Trusts falling, the current Tories don't even try to hide how criminal they are they just shrug and blame whoever brought the karaoke machine. Media reform to the powers that be means forcing the media to present things like creationism or climate change denial on a equal basis with science and calling it a lack of bias. It's more likely to get worse than better.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:23
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I mean the mattress guy was right? EU pricing regulation prevents businesses from charging extra to use cards, so they can’t offer discounts to cash buyers either. It’s a good law that he shouldn’t be mad about, but it is real.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:24
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It stops people sticking a "credit cards: 5%, debit: 3% + 50p" sign in the window like a lot of places used to do, and that's good. By extension it stops you putting up a sign saying "5% off for all cash buyers!" because that's just the same thing worded differently, but it's never banned the sort of haggling to get a quick sale that goes on at a lot of those kind of stores, so I think this was 100% about getting people onto the credit plan as mentioned above.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:36
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Morningwoodpecker posted:The factchecking was a token effort at best, it should have been headline news immediately after every speech or debate or even stop the debate or interview until it's done. Then been kept up until a clarification or retraction was issued. The problem there being that like Trump the bullshit flowed so freely there just isn't time in the day to cover it all. Gish galloping. I think we can agree it should have been headline news but Labour don’t control the media and can’t force them to print truths (or prevent them from printing lies) E: as Wynn Alan Bruce has shown, if the press doesn’t want to print something there is literally no amount of protest or screaming that will get them to cover it. You’re mad at the version of reality the media has given you, not what actually happened. TACD fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 16:47
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Twitter have accepted Elon Musks offer, so I guess it's back to full time posting on this decrepit comedy forum.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:48
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Maybe if he finds out people here don't stan him like they do on reddit, he'll buy SA too.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:54
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Morningwoodpecker posted:The factchecking was a token effort at best, it should have been headline news immediately after every speech or debate or even stop the debate or interview until it's done. Then been kept up until a clarification or retraction was issued. The problem there being that like Trump the bullshit flowed so freely there just isn't time in the day to cover it all. Gish galloping. Again, fact-checking only works if you have established yourself as a reliable and trustworthy dispenser of facts. Without that, more aggressive fact-checking doesn't make you more convincing, just noisier. Any movement stupid enough to make Alistair loving Campbell one of its major spokespeople had lost that argument from day one.
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Apr 25, 2022 16:58
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Darth Walrus posted:Again, fact-checking only works if you have established yourself as a reliable and trustworthy dispenser of facts. Without that, more aggressive fact-checking doesn't make you more convincing, just noisier. Any movement stupid enough to make Alistair loving Campbell one of its major spokespeople had lost that argument from day one. Fact checking was utterly non-existent in the places it was needed like the right wing media. That's why I think it needs to be headline news afterwards. I'd guess at most people watching the debates themselves and the subsequent fact checking being remain.
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Apr 25, 2022 17:34
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Regarding the visas for ukrainian families being hosed about with so they never come because one family member would be left behind but we get to say we've issued however many thousands of visas. Who's actually doing this? Like co-ordinating it? That seems logistically quite hard unless like every civil servant is being forced to do this/is in on it?
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Apr 25, 2022 18:39
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Regarding the visas for ukrainian families being hosed about with so they never come because one family member would be left behind but we get to say we've issued however many thousands of visas. Who's actually doing this? Like co-ordinating it? That seems logistically quite hard unless like every civil servant is being forced to do this/is in on it? Cockup before conspiracy probably. A family rang into LBC and said they were in exactly that position until they got through to a human who fixed it for them.
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Apr 25, 2022 19:37
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Morningwoodpecker posted:Cockup before conspiracy probably. A family rang into LBC and said they were in exactly that position until they got through to a human who fixed it for them. How sweetly naive.
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Apr 25, 2022 19:43
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Morningwoodpecker posted:Fact checking was utterly non-existent in the places it was needed like the right wing media. That's why I think it needs to be headline news afterwards. I'd guess at most people watching the debates themselves and the subsequent fact checking being remain. Can't believe this didn't happen. Who owns the right wing media anyway? Must be that jimbly crombles I expect
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Apr 25, 2022 20:19
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Hey don't forget that time when CCHQ renamed their twitter account "Fact Check UK" during a televised debate and proceeded to lie their arses off.
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Apr 25, 2022 20:35
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kyojin posted:Who owns the right wing media anyway? Must be that jimbly crombles I expect
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Apr 25, 2022 20:38
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Morningwoodpecker posted:Fact checking was utterly non-existent in the places it was needed like the right wing media. But how does that square with Morningwoodpecker posted:Media reform to the powers that be means forcing the media to present things like creationism or climate change denial on a equal basis with science and calling it a lack of bias. If there's no will to reform media, who was going to fact check the right wing media? They're not going to do it themselves beyond the weird editorial slapfight between the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday or copying each others' articles verbatim and adding "The Sun Sez: B*llocks to Brussels" at the bottom. Clarifications on the BBC or in the Guardian are going to be written off as Project Fear remoaner lies before they're even finished talking. Corrections on social media are going to be written off as "well you can't trust the internet, time to share some bants from leave dot eu". Any actual left wing press discussing problems with the EU and what to do about it won't even get the above. Where would the fact checking come from?
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Apr 25, 2022 20:41
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Regarding the visas for ukrainian families being hosed about with so they never come because one family member would be left behind but we get to say we've issued however many thousands of visas. Who's actually doing this? Like co-ordinating it? That seems logistically quite hard unless like every civil servant is being forced to do this/is in on it? Just sort the applications into unlinked piles by some arbitary standard other than "process an entire family together" and you can quite reasonably say you did everything by the letter of the law while completely disregarding the spirit. Edit - Also just unfuck the application of anyone that bothers to ring in. If you add that extra barrier there's a chance the family with a half-approved application will eat a cruise missile while they wait on hold to speak to someone. Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 20:46
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Guavanaut posted:If fact checking was existent in those places they wouldn't publish anything but the cricket results. Nowhere as it doesn't happen and there's no will to start. Hence the problem.
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Apr 25, 2022 20:50
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So musk's bought twitter. Guess I'll be spending more time here after all. Sorry I've been gone a while.
Prole fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Apr 25, 2022 22:06
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1. "Faaaaaaact-cheeeeeeeeeeecking"? Are we the PodJons now? No-one gives a poo poo. 2. Musk buys Twitter: the best outcome, for comedy.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:12
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It won't happen but I absolutely hope there's a mass exodus and Musk is left owning an echo chamber made up entirely of Tesla fans. He'd love it and no one else would have to interact with those people.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:16
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He'll return Trumps twitter privileges and use the extra clicks to prove he runs it better.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:20
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I'm pretty sure he's only in it for the political clout. He's absolutely giving trump back his account. And this talk of a subscription model? Nah. Can't see it happening. Time will tell but I honestly can't see much changing.
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Apr 25, 2022 22:22
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he should get self drive to work, finish the cyber truck and get me a holiday home on mars before whatever the hell it is he wants to do with twitter
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Apr 25, 2022 22:27
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